Bio Ball Question

[Kevotron]

So the all in one aquarium that I own has a De-nitrification cyclinder filled with bio balls.. and also slots for media that is supposedly helpful in getting rid of nitrates.
What I have gathered from fellow reefers is that bio balls infact retain nitrate
so I dont know whether or not I should use or remove them.
anybody care to share their opinion ?
:neutral:

[rayjay]

Bio balls don't "retain" nitrates, they just don't process the nitrates to the final stage to remove them from the aquarium so there is a build up in the system.
If the nitrate media is sufficient to handle what is produced in the tank then you have no worries.
If it can't handle things, or if you don't want to use the bio balls and/or nitrate media, then you need to have another form of bio filtration to do the job, like sufficient live rock.
You can't just remove one without having something else to do the job.

[fishytime]

what a lot of peeps with the AIO systems do is fill the section where the bio-balls would be with live rock rubble.....if you decide to ditch the bio-balls, dont do it all at once, remove and replace a handful at a time, so as not to upset the systems balance....

[sphelps]

Denitrification is a process to remove nitrates not create them. In this case bio-balls are used in a low flow and low oxygen environment which can in theory reduce nitrates provided the conditions are right.

Nitrification is the process which creates nitrate from ammonia. In this case bio-balls are used in a higher flow with high oxygen environment such as a wet-dry system. This is the type of system to avoid as it's too efficient at creating nitrates and can end up creating a build up of nitrates which is hard to deal with in typical salt setups.

[globaldesigns]

what a lot of peeps with the AIO systems do is fill the section where the bio-balls would be with live rock rubble.....if you decide to ditch the bio-balls, dont do it all at once, remove and replace a handful at a time, so as not to upset the systems balance....

+1, LR is always better.

But if you keep the bioballs, as long as the flow through them is sufficient, things should be ok. But if you want to spend a few bucks, get the LR

[rayjay]

Denitrification is a process to remove nitrates not create them. In this case bio-balls are used in a low flow and low oxygen environment which can in theory reduce nitrates provided the conditions are right.

Nitrification is the process which creates nitrate from ammonia. In this case bio-balls are used in a higher flow with high oxygen environment such as a wet-dry system. This is the type of system to avoid as it's too efficient at creating nitrates and can end up creating a build up of nitrates which is hard to deal with in typical salt setups.
Very simply put, aerobic bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite and other aerobic bacteria convert nitrite to nitrate.
Now at this point, the nitrate requires anaerobic bacteria to convert the nitrates into gas and other by products so bio balls cannot convert nitrates.
Live rock can convert nitrates with the anaerobic bacteria in the depths of the rock where there is no oxygen, or, a sand bed of sufficient depth to eliminate oxygen can also do the same thing.

[sphelps]

Very simply put, aerobic bacteria convert ammonia to nitrite and other aerobic bacteria convert nitrite to nitrate.
Now at this point, the nitrate requires anaerobic bacteria to convert the nitrates into gas and other by products so bio balls cannot convert nitrates.
Live rock can convert nitrates with the anaerobic bacteria in the depths of the rock where there is no oxygen, or, a sand bed of sufficient depth to eliminate oxygen can also do the same thing.
A Bio ball is just a ball with a large amount of surface area. They can be used in denitrification just like LR if they are in a low oxygen environment. Many denitrifiers on the market use bio-balls and other similar media, it's just simply something for anaerobic bacteria to attach to, the exact same way aerobic bacteria can attach to them. Weather such denitrifiers work is a different story.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6wRGON2LE_xdSnFxwqB6EW6TKe-5vvvocg2YvP6qF8NOGS7k&t=1&usg=__cS69PcHKgwrAceaXVjpw1urqS-U=

[rayjay]

Sorry, I've not come across bioball denitrifiers using bio balls around here.
I've seen a Reef Octopus denitrater but is used a sulphur based media I think.
It would be interesting to know how the OP's "all in one" strips the oxygen to allow for the completed process and the final stage only happens when the oxygen is being used up faster than it can be produced creating the anaerobic situation needed, as I understand it.
Also, if his built in denitrifier cylinder was able to strip the nitrates, why would it have a chamber for media to remove nitrates?

[untamed]

Also, if his built in denitrifier cylinder was able to strip the nitrates, why would it have a chamber for media to remove nitrates?

Hmmm, yes...I've also not seen many "All in One" aquariums equipped with de-nitrification stuff. I think he may have mislabelled it and that the bioballs are being used in the traditional nitrification application.

[Wayne]

+1, LR is always better.

But if you keep the bioballs, as long as the flow through them is sufficient, things should be ok. But if you want to spend a few bucks, get the LR

The way that I was explained is that live rock rubble doesn't do a lot for denitrfication. It only really happens in bigger peices in the center of the rock where there is less flow which is ideal conditions. I was told that rubble just isn't big enough to make much of a difference. Maybe it would work in low flow areas... :tape2:

[Kevotron]

Hmmm, yes...I've also not seen many "All in One" aquariums equipped with de-nitrification stuff. I think he may have mislabelled it and that the bioballs are being used in the traditional nitrification application.

Is called a Nitrate processor, so i don't know if is the same thing.
but heres a pic of it
http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae108/kevotron91/IMG_0283.jpg?t=1288321046