Lost my mind....or, here we go again!

[Aquattro]

So after 2 years of struggling with my tank, I'm shutting it down. Right after I get the new 180 set up, which will be a couple of months. I just bought a complete system locally, but will need to drill the tank and build a new stand to fit my gear.

Question for all the 180+ crowd...what did you do that made the setup nice, or what would you have done different?

I've got 2 Tunze 6100s on a controller, ER skimmer, big DIY Ca reactor, Zeo already.
Things to look at are drain locations, 1 or 2 drains, durso vs herbie, stand concepts, etc....anything you can think of that I might not have?

[reefwars]

when i had my 180 i noticed the need for a very large water bin for both fresh and salt:) 20g water changes every week or so

[christyf5]

My tank is in the basement on a concrete floor. Hello brute on wheels, I love it. Go for the herbie if you can, I have a stockman (can't fit a durso in there :( ) and its the loudest part of the tank. I wish my tank could be retrofitted for a herbie (can't/won't, next tank).

My tank is in wall and I wish I'd left enough room on the sides for placement of magnets for powerheads (its a very tight fit), I can't move my wavebox forward enough in the tank so its only half held on by the magnets (a bit precarious but so far so good).

Sounds like you're set, can't wait to see thie one set up :biggrin:

[Aquattro]

This one will be in the livingroom, upstairs, so hopefully it doesn't decide to go downstairs. I'm thinking a 7' wide stand, which gives me edges to sit stuff on and spreads the weight a bit more. I'll probably look at a 75g sump underneath. I lose my downstairs sump, but can probably plumb my topoff in full time, no more jugs!!
Noise will be a concern, so I'll look at the herbie setups, haven't been there before. MAG 12 or so return in sump to dampen vibration, currently my whole house vibrates from the pump downstairs.

Christy, I may need a few more frags -lol

[Lance]

+1 on the large water containers.

I wish I had the room for a larger sump. Mine is 70g and I would love the space of a 100g or even 120g.

[Aquattro]

+1 on the large water containers.

I wish I had the room for a larger sump. Mine is 70g and I would love the space of a 100g or even 120g.

Ya, not hapy about losing my sump, I'm running a 125g now and love it. Who knows, I might be able to fit that under the stand.

Large water containers won't fly, I don't have room to store them while not making water. I use a 20g tub now, so that should cover water changes (I hope)

[The Grizz]

I think that any of use that are over 100 gals have all lost our minds :crazy: but it is so hard to resist. My DT is only 165 but with the sump I am at around 230 total. The one thing I still need to do is get a dual stage controller and should have an ATO so I don't have to top off 5 - 10 gals every other day.

[lastlight]

Topoff tanka dn mix tank on a high stand right under the living room floor? Plumb into them through a cold air return?

I really approve of the last straw/the first straw mentality. If it IS broke...go bigger! Looking fwd to more. Are you supporting the floor?

[christyf5]

.
Christy, I may need a few more frags -lol

LOL, I was going to comment earlier. I'll have frags galore for you when you're ready :biggrin:

[Delphinus]

External overflow unless you need the tank up against the wall. I HATE how much real estate my internal overflow eats up out of my 280g. :(

Center overflow, or coast to coast. (External or internal, either way). That way if you go wavebox the wave will be minimized at the overflow and sloshing is minimized.

Leave enough space over top of the overflow. Especially if you go with a non centered overflow and you have a wavebox.

I think Herbie > Durso. Durso really only good for reducing gurgling noise. Herbie is quieter and makes microbubbles pretty much impossible since there is no way for air to enter the plumbing. Well, except for the skimmer anyhow and anything else, but at least the overflow intake is submerged completely so it can't draw in air.

There's another kind of overflow system whose name I can't remember but it's basically Herbie extreme. You need 3 holes for it. That might be something to look into.

[lastlight]

Beananimal. I've never really gotten the point. I think Herbie is the shiz.

I'd totally love to have a coast-to-coast next time around. Take the thinnest sliver off the surface and if it's wide enough and you're not trying to force 10,000 gph through your sump you really don't need eggcrate or anything on the overflow.

[Aquattro]

Topoff tanka dn mix tank on a high stand right under the living room floor? Plumb into them through a cold air return?

I really approve of the last straw/the first straw mentality. If it IS broke...go bigger! Looking fwd to more. Are you supporting the floor?

Can't plumb anything thru floor, unless I can convine my tenant to keep tubs in her livingroom -lol
I'm not supporting the floor this time around, I did with my 155, and found I didn't need to. This one will be up against a wall, overtop a support wall, probably over a slab where a fireplace used to be. It should be ok.

[Delphinus]

"Beananimal" ok thanks. I couldn't remember it and it would have taken easily 2 minutes of googling before I stumbled randomly across it.

I agree, I think Herbie's are completely it. I'm not sure what this beananimal has to offer over Herbies, but I thought I'd at least bring it up because there is nothing worse than finding out after the fact about something else you could have considered.

[Aquattro]

I'm just reading the link to Beananimal system, not sure how that works yet. For that matter, I don't know how Herbies work either, I've always used stockman style, but they do give off some noise.
I was going to drill the bottom, but coast to coast does sound appealing, although that pushes me out from the wall, which I was trying to avoid.

Thoughts on internal vs external plumbing??

[Aquattro]

LOL, I was going to comment earlier. I'll have frags galore for you when you're ready :biggrin:

Cool! hopefully I'll be able to get things to grow with the new system, and can trade you some back!

[Delphinus]

Stockman and Durso are really identical ideas, just different shapes.

You could go coast to coast with an internal overflow and still drill out the bottom. You'd just have to have the coast-to-coast part like a bridge and then in one (or both) of the corners still your traditional overflow tower (I'm not sure what to call the box part).

Sort of like an upside-down U (well, a squared off U anyhow).

[Aquattro]

You could go coast to coast with an internal overflow and still drill out the bottom. You'd just have to have the coast-to-coast part like a bridge and then in one (or both) of the corners still your traditional overflow tower (I'm not sure what to call the box part).

Sort of like an upside-down U (well, a squared off U anyhow).

Quite a bit of fabricating for that, and I'd lose more space than just standard internal stacks. Although smaller than what I've used in the past, so that might work. Even a single stack with room for 2 or 3 pipes, a T rather than a U

[Delphinus]

Sounds workable. :)

[StirCrazy]

the beanimal and herbie are the same.. kinda like durso and stockman Brad, but the herbie is the way to go. depending ont he flow you want you won't need as many bulkheads.

since you have to drill the tank anyways I would recomend an external overflow with yor herbie sertup in that. nice and clean inside the tank.

go to HD or what ever and buy some unfilled travitiene tiles for your bottom, that will give you a beige sand look. but a couple more tunze..

why did you want a new tank? more room?

oh and the most important thing.. make the stand big enough to store everything underneith and make the doors lockable to keep the little one out of chemicals and such.

Steve

[lockrookie]

+1 on external i did it on my 50 cut the notch myself not too hard just keep the bit wet i love the extra room inside the tank. if i can figure out a way to do external on my future 120 i definately will.just means i have to cut a hole in my wall which i am ok with .... the wife not so much. so i may have to go internal. which is still better than hang on back which is what im currently using

[Milad]

if i had to redo my 180
i would buy a stand instead of make one
external overflow
beanimal
fish room or at least 2 containers one filled with live rock and one just sw so i can do quick water changes

[Aquattro]

if i had to redo my 180
i would buy a stand instead of make one
external overflow


Why buy vs. build? I'm pretty good with a saw, so other than time, I think I save a lot and get the strength I need.

External overflow is sounding better all the time.

[StirCrazy]

Why buy vs. build? I'm pretty good with a saw,

:shocked!:. you going to actualy finnish this stand if you build it?:D

Steve

[Aquattro]

:shocked!:. you going to actualy finnish this stand if you build it?:D

Steve

Of course. I already have the cardboard ready :)

[kien]

You definitely get a lot more flexibility out of your stand if you build it yourself. It doesn't have to be crazy. A stand can be quite simple and easy to build. You can always do it in stages too. Build the frame to a point where you can mount the tank, and then skin it later.

External overflow gives you more room precious real estate inside the tank :)

[Aquattro]

Build the frame to a point where you can mount the tank, and then skin it later.

External overflow gives you more room precious real estate inside the tank :)

Well, no, I have to finish it before the tank goes on, or it will never get done. See reference to cardboard above -lol
Since I'm doing a 7' stand for a 6' tank, I'll need to build it myself. I want to try and stuff my 125 sump in there, and a store bought will not accomodate that, I'm pretty sure :)
Yes, I'm thinking external for sure now, just gotta figure it all out to minimize the space required behind the tank.

[Milad]

well my stand cost me way more than I thought it would cost and it took up alot of my time and it still not finished and it was the hardest part of the project.

if i did the stand again it would be metal with thin wood for the panels because the wood holding the stand up takes up alot of space.

[Milad]

but then again on my stand I did use laminate which was part of the headache. you can even get a counter top built at like home depot, then buy panels from ikea. just gota find correct size panels or build the stand to the panels.

i saw a professionally built stand at oceanic corals and even with a $1500ish price tag, i still wanted because my stand is still not perfect, and its a headache trying to "fix" it.

[reefwars]

On my build I'm doing now I'm doing the same thing leaving a 6" "shelf" around the tank , I'm doing granite for the top and dry stack stone for the stand, it will be built in two halfs in case I move sometime:)

[Aquattro]

On my build I'm doing now I'm doing the same thing leaving a 6" "shelf" around the tank , I'm doing granite for the top and dry stack stone for the stand, it will be built in two halfs in case I move sometime:)

How are you handling the weight? I"m thinking I need an internal frame that covers 24' x 72' to support the tank. Essentially another vertical support 6' in from the corners...

[StirCrazy]

You can always do it in stages too. Build the frame to a point where you can mount the tank, and then skin it later.

:)


don't tell him that, it took 5 years last time and he sold it befor he finnished it :mrgreen:

Steve

[StirCrazy]

hey Brad, if you going to make it longer than the tank, why don't you build the overflow on the end. you can always make a dark plexy or wood cover for it to hide the piping. or is there something else your concerned about here?

Steve

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Having that extra space on the side of the tank is great for putting fish stuff on. Very convenient.

Use a herbie or at least durso system. Much quieter.

I have glass tops on the 165g and it really reduces my evaporation. Thus I can get away with just a 5 gallon bucket of topoff for the auto topoff system. Easy enough to fill and stick back inside the stand as needed. I find with the glass tops, I only need to top up my ATO bucket once a week or so. My 210g reef, in contrast, evaporates at least 2 or 3 gallons a day. Huge difference.

I also love the 24" width of a 90g wide sump, compared to the 18" of a 75g.

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

hey Brad, if you going to make it longer than the tank, why don't you build the overflow on the end. you can always make a dark plexy or wood cover for it to hide the piping. or is there something else your concerned about here?

Steve

Yup, the tank I got from Chin has the overflow on the end (external actually). Depends on how the tank is situated. I mainly look at one side and the front of the tank anyways. It has a mod Herbie drain.

The tank that busted had a single large corner overflow box with dual 1" drains using a durso system. Roughly 12" x 6" x 6". Worked well before the front pane broke. Had to keep the tank about 5" to 6" off the wall though to accommodate the plumbing in the back.

[StirCrazy]

My 210g reef, in contrast, evaporates at least 2 or 3 gallons a day. Huge difference.

I also love the 24" width of a 90g wide sump, compared to the 18" of a 75g.

Damn, my 90 gal evaporated that much a day after I put a chiller on it and took the fans off, befor it was 5 gal a day :mrgreen:

for sump width there is a disadvantage to 24" wide as well as benifits. if your stand is 24" wide thats 6" less space to place things infront of it.

so lets say he puts a 6" wider stand so there is a ledge around the tank. underneith if there is a 24" wide sump that leaves about 3" of room, if it is a 18" sump then he has about 9" of room to place a Ca reactor, chemicals, tools, ect..

I think now when I do another tank I will take my widest chunk of out of sump equipment and build it to acomadate that.

personaly I would make the stand with a front ledge of 8" a back ledge of 2 or 3" and ends about 8" larger also. this would give you 12" of usable room aprox infront of a 18" wide sump which would be able to acomadat almost anything you want to throw under there.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Since I'm doing a 7' stand for a 6' tank, I'll need to build it myself. I want to try and stuff my 125 sump in there, and a store bought will not accomodate that, I'm pretty sure :)
Yes, I'm thinking external for sure now, just gotta figure it all out to minimize the space required behind the tank.

how big is the 125 Brad? I can't remember off hand.. only how heavy it was :wink: and is there a reason you can only go 7 foot long or did tyou just thing 6" on each end?

to bad you don't come this way at all, I actualy have a shop I can work in now :wink: :mrgreen: not in the driveway like our last stand build :redface:

Steve

[Aquattro]

The 125 is 60x18x24 (which makes it a 115?). Not sure I can fit that in, but I'll design for it initially.
I don't want the overflow off the end, as both ends are exposed to the room equally, and symetry is important. I'd rather lose 3 inches off the back

[reefwars]

Weights def a concern with a 200g tank plus around 300lbs of stone and 100g sump not to mention liverock etc.

I'll be making the stand out of 2x4 first to support the tank, I'll be using 3/4" plywood plus 2" s&m foam for the tank to sit on. then I'll be building walks from 2x6 on the outside of my 2x4 frame to hold my stone and create my shelf. If I build from just 2x4 with the shelf it won't support the tank as it will be wider, so my plan is to build framed walls and supports for the tank then build a stand from 2x6 in two halfs that will fit around the interior stand like two horseshoes :) then just granite for the top cut to fit around my tank in two halves also :)

[Aquattro]

Just picked up the first load of equipment and rock, filled the van completely. Still have a bit more gear and the tank
Noticed the tank has a tempered bottom, so that limits my plumbing options.
For those using external overflows, is your tank trimless, or how have you dealt with that?

[StirCrazy]

Just picked up the first load of equipment and rock, filled the van completely. Still have a bit more gear and the tank
Noticed the tank has a tempered bottom, so that limits my plumbing options.
For those using external overflows, is your tank trimless, or how have you dealt with that?

I just cut away the trim where the actual overflow is.

Steve

[Aquattro]

I just cut away the trim where the actual overflow is.

Steve

Wonder how that works with bracing? Brace just covers the top of the cutout?

[MitchM]

...
For those using external overflows, is your tank trimless, or how have you dealt with that?

My new tank is coming with a 40" external overflow and 48 slotted teeth, along with an 8" eurobrace. I am curious how they attached it as well, I suspect that it will be welded to the eurobrace along the top of the teeth.
It should be here in the next couple of weeks.

Mitch

[StirCrazy]

Wonder how that works with bracing? Brace just covers the top of the cutout?


like a euro brace? or center brace? if its a center brace hmmm.. you would be losing the adhesive surface, would almost be better to remove it and put two smaller ones 1/3 from each end. this would be better for the lights also. maybe ask Sea star if they are ripping it apart to re seal it anyways they might have some good ideas on how to do it.

what ever you end up doing if you cut teeth again I'll slap ya next time I am in victoria. nice smoth rounded edge, quiet and much easier to keep clean.

Steve

[Chin_Lee]

Brad - you planning to use an insump or external skimmer?

A setup I did for a friend had a 90g sump (48x18x24). I put in a 23" high glass baffle on one side so the 48" length was split 12"/36". I used the 36" side for the insump skimmer, reactors, return pump. The 12" side was used to hold ~20 gallons of fresh water topoff. In the beginning, we used the 12" side as a holding tank for new fishes to go through hyposalinity treatment over several weeks to get rid of bugs.

As far as internal or external overflow is concern, either way its gonna suck. Internal and it takes up coral real estate. External and it makes the tank shape awkward with protrusions coming out and more plumbing is visible. I have had both and i will stick to the internal. It just gives a more clean-line, finished look

I second the the tiles at the bottom idea if you want the brown sand look right away. or just grow gsp and let it take over the bottom.

One thing I really like on my current 120, i have an older tunze (one speed 6080) pointing straight down on the back wall. This pushes all the detritus out of the rock work, to the inside perimeter of the tank and helps push light detritus up in the water column towards the overflows. It provides great indirect flow and makes cleaning very easy.

good luck

[Aquattro]

like a euro brace? or center brace? if its a center brace hmmm..

Steve

eurobrace. Currently the tank has a plastic trim with dual braces, which gotta go.

[Aquattro]

Chin, I've got an in-sump skimmer. My current sump is baffled at 45/15 inches, and the 45 section holds the reactors, the smaller chamber contains to pickup for the return pump and the float valve. I'm hoping to use this sump if I can fit it in...

I'm going to have to go external plumbing, just found out the bottom is tempered, so that choice is made for me. I could minimize exposed stuff if I drill the back glass and have an overflow inside, but then I'd still need to be away from the wall, and if so, might as well go with external overflow. I think...

Oh, and I'm going with sand this time. It's going to be a display in the LR, so I'm going for the natural reef look. I also miss all the life in the sand, and GF wants a madarin :)

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Unless you custom build the tank, external overflows are very difficult to retrofit. How do you get the one section lower than the rest of the tank? A small internal box is much easier.

[reefwars]

could be a dumb question as ive never done it but could you remove the bottom panel and exchange it for the back if they are the same measurements or remove the bottom and add a different piece??? not sure how much it would cost but maybe something to consider so you have the tank you want:)

what are you doing to support the floor or is it on concrete??

[Aquattro]

Unless you custom build the tank, external overflows are very difficult to retrofit. How do you get the one section lower than the rest of the tank? A small internal box is much easier.

I was thinking dremel?? I was told that it's not that difficult (never tried personally tho)

My current tank has a small overflow box internally, not really annoying, but I imagine the tank would be nicer without it

[Milad]

you can dremel glass?

[reefwars]

with a diamond tip blade you can cut just about anything with anything:):)

[StirCrazy]

ok if that eurobrace to easy. it will just go along the top. so you make your overflow notch a little deeper as you will want the water below the euor brace anyways.

I would get sea star to make the notch while it is there. they have the tools to do it fast and if they have the tank apart while they do it then all the easier. they can just use there belt sander with silicon carbide abrasive and it will cut it in no time. they might even have a better tool to do it also. just ask them about it to find out. so I would make your notch 1.25" deep and say 12" long. if your using 1/2" for the euro brace this will give you a water level about 1/2" below the euro brace.

drilling your external overflow bottom for the bulkheads will be a lot simpler and allow for even neater plumbing than drilling the back of the tank, also reducing the space you need to leave behind the tank. as the overflow just has to be barly bigger than the dia of the bulkheads. if you go out the back of the tank you need your bulkhead thread or slip lenght, then the lenght of the 90 or "T" and space to install them. I would preinstall the bulkheads into the overflow bottom then assemble the overflow, the pipes inside the overflow can just be friction fit with slip and you will have enough room under to work what you want. this also allows your two or 3 pipes to run strait down into the stand for a very clean look with out a bunch of 90's and such.

how much flow are you planning on running through the sump from the tank? this will decide the bulkhead size for the herbie, remember under full syphon the pipe will flow more than if just gravity fed with air also. so you would have to see what people running herbies are using for bulkhead sizes and what there return pump is so you can figure out what you need.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

I was thinking dremel?? I was told that it's not that difficult (never tried personally tho)

My current tank has a small overflow box internally, not really annoying, but I imagine the tank would be nicer without it

I used a dremmel on mine after I notched it with a glass cutter to even it out. you need the expensive diamond bits and you need the extender whip that lets you use it like a pen grinder as you need to have water running on the glass constantly to prevent it from getting hot.

Brad, I was just thinking.. where exactly in the house are you putting this?

Steve

[Aquattro]

Steve, Seastar won't cut a notch, only drill holes. And I don't need to take the tank apart, just reseal the corners.

Drains will likely be 1" pipes for the herbie, I'll be running maybe 1000gph, probably less.

Tank is going in the living room, against the wall backing onto the kitchen. Or it's going into the bathroom of the suite, depends on weight :)

[freezetyle]

if you want to see the noise level on a "beananimal" overflow i am getting a tank this weekend with it. you are free to come and see if the noise level ease of setting it up would be worth it for you.

[Aquattro]

Jon, I'll take you up on that. PM with your info and we'll talk!

[Canadian]

Hey Jon and Brad.

Just for clarification: Jon's tank doesn't have a full-on Bean Animal overflow. I disconnected the piece of tubing from one of the stand pipes and eventually removed one of the elbows effectively turning it into a Herbie with two fail-safes because it was more hassle than it was worth. I did that about 5 months ago when we moved into our new place after living with a fussy BeanAnimal overflow for a year. I find it's less finicky this way.

As far as notching goes, SeaStar won't cut a notch but they will build the tank with a notch. The back of my old tank (now Jon's) is notched but they built it by siliconing two smaller pieces on either side of the shortened back pane of glass (this is concealed by the piece of acrylic glued to the inside of the back pane of glass). So one option, albeit likely expensive, is to have them rebuild the back pane of glass.

[freezetyle]

Hey Jon and Brad.

Just for clarification: Jon's tank doesn't have a full-on Bean Animal overflow. I disconnected the piece of tubing from one of the stand pipes and eventually removed one of the elbows effectively turning it into a Herbie with two fail-safes because it was more hassle than it was worth. I did that about 5 months ago when we moved into our new place after living with a fussy BeanAnimal overflow for a year. I find it's less finicky this way.

As far as notching goes, SeaStar won't cut a notch but they will build the tank with a notch. The back of my old tank (now Jon's) is notched but they built it by siliconing two smaller pieces on either side of the shortened back pane of glass (this is concealed by the piece of acrylic glued to the inside of the back pane of glass). So one option, albeit likely expensive, is to have them rebuild the back pane of glass.

Thanks for clarifying. either way you designed that thing to be silent. Thanks again Andrew

[Aquattro]

Andrew, I don't think I want to tank the tank apart and replace panels, so worst case, I'll drill the back and use an internal overflow box using some sort of herbie/beananimal design.
What are you running now? Upgrading ?

[Canadian]

Andrew, I don't think I want to tank the tank apart and replace panels, so worst case, I'll drill the back and use an internal overflow box using some sort of herbie/beananimal design.
What are you running now? Upgrading ?

Bowing out to spend more time golfing and generally being more active. I want to play competitively next year (more than anything for the fun of it) and need to put the time in to getting my handicap down to a scratch.

[Aquattro]

Oh sure, be a Dr, then work on the obligatory golf game :) Hey, we still need to get out for that ride!

[StirCrazy]

well that suck that sea star won't notch a tank. for mine I did it with a glass cutter and a template to follow. you can't run corners with a glass cutter so it is a big curve.. then I used the dremmel to shape it. going to be a lot harder to use a glass cutter on the thicker glass you will have.. talk to the glass smith.. they have glass grinding router bits... might be an option.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Ya, I certainly wouldn't use a glass cutter :) Japarto suggested a cutting disk, he's used one before without problems. Victoria Glass might also do it. Worst case, I'll drill it and run an internal box. Not a huge deal, if it's going to be easier.

[StirCrazy]

Ya, I certainly wouldn't use a glass cutter :) Japarto suggested a cutting disk, he's used one before without problems. Victoria Glass might also do it. Worst case, I'll drill it and run an internal box. Not a huge deal, if it's going to be easier.

ya the diamond cutting disks might work. just keep water on it so it doesn't heat up.

Steve