Setting up sump...

[Wayne]

Hey I am setting up my sump for my tank. I already have two built in overflow boxes and a 20 gallon sump which I just siliconed one baffle into. The display tank already has dual returns and it about 52 Gallons.

I am curious about:

Inlet piping
Return piping (do I need a valve to throttle back)
Suggested return pump size
Dialing it all in

TIA

[Wayne]

Pictures to help:

Single baffle sump, left hand side is skimmer section which will have a pre-filter. The second stage will have live rock and cheto (by the way I need some if anyone has extra). The ruturn pump will be in an egg crate box surrounded by foam to filter any debris out :)

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_2808.jpg

The tank has had a sump set up already. These are they intake tubes, just not sure what design I am looking at and what the pros and cons are of the intake being so high vrs "drains" like at Blue World...

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy22/Racing_Rush/IMG_2809.jpg

[Wayne]

Help :redface::redface::redface::redface:

I found this site http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-01/newbie/index.php

So return pump size is going to be about 200 Gallons/Hour. Is it better to have drains that are at the top of my overflow or at the bottom? Do I need holes to stop the siphon? Can my return pump too much? Can my drains drain to much? Is mechanical filtration recommended?

[MitchM]

...
So return pump size is going to be about 200 Gallons/Hour. Is it better to have drains that are at the top of my overflow or at the bottom? Do I need holes to stop the siphon? Can my return pump too much? Can my drains drain to much? Is mechanical filtration recommended?

What size is your overflow?
How big are those drain pipes?
There should be holes in the top of those drains already, if it was used before...?
You can put a valve on the return side of the pump to regulate flow back to the main tank.
I don't recommend mechanical filtration, but that is a personal choice.
oh, and your drains will only drain back what your pump pushes up to your display tank.

Mitch

[Wayne]

What size is your overflow?
How big are those drain pipes?
There should be holes in the top of those drains already, if it was used before...?
You can put a valve on the return side of the pump to regulate flow back to the main tank.
I don't recommend mechanical filtration, but that is a personal choice.
oh, and your drains will only drain back what your pump pushes up to your display tank.

Mitch

Pipes are 1" and there are holes in the caps which do sit below the water line. How do you start the siphon or is it just a pressure differential that automatically starts it.

How do you determine over flow size? The boxes are 4.5" x 4.5" x 18.5" and the current tubes (which I will rebuild) are 18" tall. Thanks

[Myka]

Hey I am setting up my sump for my tank. I already have two built in overflow boxes and a 20 gallon sump which I just siliconed one baffle into. The display tank already has dual returns and it about 52 Gallons.

I am curious about:

Inlet piping
Return piping (do I need a valve to throttle back)
Suggested return pump size
Dialing it all in

TIA

It sounds like the "dual returns" are 1" bulkheads drilled in the bottom of the tank? If so, they would work as dual drains for a Herbie style overflow. You would need a gate valve for this (about $30). You would need the drain pipes to have stand pipes so they are close to the surface. The main drain will be about 2" below the tank's water line, the emergency drain will be level with the water line.

If you choose an appropriate sized return pump you don't need a ball valve to throttle back. You can put the return over the top of the tank to leave two drain lines.

I would suggest a return pump about 375-500 gph based on about 52+10 (half the sump) = 62 gallons of water. That will give you 6-8x turnover through the sump. Any more and you will have a major micro-bubble problem considering your single baffle. Any less and your skimmer will not perform its best. I would suggest you stick close to 6x turnover.

Speaking of baffles...how tall is your baffle? What is the suggested depth of water your skimmer's manufacturer suggests? Is your baffle acrylic?

[Wayne]

It sounds like the "dual returns" are 1" bulkheads drilled in the bottom of the tank? If so, they would work as dual drains for a Herbie style overflow. You would need a gate valve for this (about $30). You would need the drain pipes to have stand pipes so they are close to the surface. The main drain will be about 2" below the tank's water line, the emergency drain will be level with the water line.

If you choose an appropriate sized return pump you don't need a ball valve to throttle back. You can put the return over the top of the tank to leave two drain lines.

I would suggest a return pump about 375-500 gph based on about 52+10 (half the sump) = 62 gallons of water. That will give you 6-8x turnover through the sump. Any more and you will have a major micro-bubble problem considering your single baffle. Any less and your skimmer will not perform its best. I would suggest you stick close to 6x turnover.

Speaking of baffles...how tall is your baffle? What is the suggested depth of water your skimmer's manufacturer suggests? Is your baffle acrylic?

I have a single drain at the bottom of each overflow box. As for the return its 1 that splits into 2 return and is also 1". Return lines are already plumbed.

I am going to pick up a return pump tommarow so I will find something thats in that range for sure.

The acrylic baffle is 9" to the bottom of the cut outs and the sump is a standard 20 Gallon so its 15 3/4" tall. The recommended water level for this skimmer is 10" so I just siliconed in another 10" baffle :lol:. Now my return pump will be in its own compartment which will be better for debirs anyway :)

Do I need emergency drains cause I could for sure build one shorter.

[Myka]

You only need an emergency drain for a Herbie overflow. The emergency drain would be taller than the main drain. Do a Google search so you know what I'm talking about. It would be a pain in the butt to rig up a Herbie having the drain lines separated like that though.

Are you using an ATO? If not, make sure the return chamber holds plenty of water or you will have to top up way too often. Evaporation will show itself solely in the return chamber, and you can't have the pump running dry!

[Wayne]

You only need an emergency drain for a Herbie overflow. The emergency drain would be taller than the main drain. Do a Google search so you know what I'm talking about. It would be a pain in the butt to rig up a Herbie having the drain lines separated like that though.

Are you using an ATO? If not, make sure the return chamber holds plenty of water or you will have to top up way too often. Evaporation will show itself solely in the return chamber, and you can't have the pump running dry!

The return pump area is now going to be 4 Gallons minus the pump and some live rock/rubble and I will be getting an auto top off very soon. Good to know that the return pump area is where I should be putting the switch :biggrin:. I understand the Herbie overflow now. I would only be able to use one of the boxes for drain for normal use and the other would only be used in case of emergency. I agree that isn't the best method for this type of setup. Thanks

[russp]

If you are planning to put a skimmer in the sump you might want to make sure & leave room for it , don't make the mistake that I did & cut yourself short. I left enough room for the skimmer I was using & now I want to upgrade but the space limits my skimmer options big time

[Wayne]

If you are planning to put a skimmer in the sump you might want to make sure & leave room for it , don't make the mistake that I did & cut yourself short. I left enough room for the skimmer I was using & now I want to upgrade but the space limits my skimmer options big time

I now have 2 different compartments that can be used for skimming. When this skimmer goes for a poop I plan on going to a AquaC Urchin. I know it will fit in either compartment just not sure what water level is recommended (hopefully either 9 or 10") Other wise I would be into building another sump. Thanks

[Wayne]

I just bought some Cheato from the LFS and I am on my way out to pick up some plumbing parts. My local "big orange" named hardware store didn't carry IPEX so now I am on a quest :lol:

[MitchM]

Pipes are 1" and there are holes in the caps which do sit below the water line. How do you start the siphon or is it just a pressure differential that automatically starts it.

How do you determine over flow size? The boxes are 4.5" x 4.5" x 18.5" and the current tubes (which I will rebuild) are 18" tall. Thanks

Yes, that's what I meant about overflow size.
When you re-plumb your overflow drains, make sure to design it so that you can get your hand down to the bottom of the overflow for when (not if) you need to retrieve something.

It looks like the old style was a Durso type return and I also recommend changing that to a Herbie style. I had a Durso for a while on one of my tanks and found that the hole that should be at the top of the return pipes kept plugging up with salt creep.
When that plugs you get a constant toilet flushing sound in the background, which is just lovely to listen to when you're on the phone!:lol:

Mitch

[Wayne]

I found out the top portion of the drains are removable to facilitate my arm if something goes into that area. I will drill the hole out to a bigger size to help combat the salt creep, but with it removable I can always take out and clean. Converting to a Herbie would be as easy as removing the top and having seperate drain pipes correct? Thanks

[Wayne]

Well I siliconed the bulkheads to the tank as I had no other options (besides taking the tank off the stand and making the thickness smaller to get the nuts on). Now I am just finishing gluing the drains and finally I pick up my return pump tomarrow :)