Substrate.....or no substrate?

[sharky222]

Hi everyone,

I am a complete newbie -- my 100g tank arrives in a few days. A few more days to troll this site and learn more stuff.....!

The folks at my LFS are strongly of the opinion that it is not necessary to use a substrate of any type, and in fact using a substrate can cause more problems than it is worth. All of their tanks have a bare bottom (so to speak), which doesn't look great, but I am tempted to try this (I found a roll of sand-printed drawer-liner that I'll tape underneath the tank to solve the aesthetic problem!).

Would be curious to know if this is good advice, or not.....does it make sense to start out substrate-free?

[reefwars]

without a sandbed you limit yourself to livestock as alot of things need and thrive from the sand, plus its home to alot of beneficial bacteria.if not maintained a sandbed can be your worse nightmare.alot of reefers go bb me personally i love the sand look :):)

[mattdean]

Personally, I think substrate looks more natural. the only reason a sand bed can cause problems is if it's not maintained properly. If you do a shallow bed, just siphon it out when you do water changes. No big deal. Also, there are great cleaners like Nasarius Snails that stir the sand bed up.

Even with NO sand bed, you must keep detritus off the bottom glass, so it's pretty much the same.

Do what you think looks best, but research it and make sure you are avoiding potential problems.

Good luck

[sharky222]

Re: no substrate, and limiting livestock....if I go "bare bottom" can I still have shrimps and starfish and such?

I also think sand looks better. But these guys at the LFS swear by no-substrate, so it got me thinking.

[reefwars]

dont listen when a lfs swears lol you can still have shrimp and starfish too depending on the kind:) also take into consideration rocks falling and algae growing.one more thing to note is if you ever changed your mind its not easy adding sand to a tank that has none:)

id say go with the sandbed it does alot more good than harm :):)

[sharky222]

Thanks! I think you have convinced me.... :biggrin:

[reefwars]

I would suggest looking at other members tanks and see what you find appealing , then do a wish list of the fish you want and see if a bb works for you. Give this thread some time and you'll get a better scientific response, I'm only speaking from experience. I'm sure bb had it's advantages as well like weight on your glass, moving your tank, not as much sand floating around .it's a decision I wouldn't take lightly and won't work for all set ups but may be better for some:) keep researching and then post why you wanna go the route you choose :)

[xtreme]

I run a bare bottom. No worries about to much flow stirring up sand. Much easier to clean if necessary. A fellow canreefer asked me the other day where my detritus was, I don't have any since there is no sand bed for it to settle on. It takes most people at least 10 or 15 mins to notice there is no sand in my tank since they are busy looking at all the fish and coral. It doesn't look as nice as a white sand bed but it will blend in with coraline over time.

A SSB is really only for aesthetics and I could never keep it clean anyway and a DSB is to hard to maintain IMO so BB is my vote.

[e46er]

i had a 3" sandbed for about 1 1/2 years recently moved and went with a shallow (under an inch) sandbed and like the look much better but its only been running a week like this so my opinion is based purely on aseticitcs

[bryceschutte]

From one new guy to the next. I love the look of the sand bed but man am I having troubles keeping nice and clean. I am seriously thinking about getting rid of mine.

[sharky222]

;)

[sharky222]

New GIRL, actually....would a guy think of putting sand-textured drawer liner under his tank just to create the "impression" of substrate? ;)

[bryceschutte]

New GIRL, actually....would a guy think of putting sand-textured drawer liner under his tank just to create the "impression" of substrate? ;)

Good point. My bad. I have also hear of people using a textured tile on the inside bottom of the tank. Like a marble or a sand stone.

[mark]

I'm BB and liking it. Had shrimp and kept a Blue Linkia for about 2 years and about the only thing that probably wouldn't work, that I would want, would be that burrowing goby/shrimp pair. Found the bottom doesn't stay bare for long as get covered by coralline and zoas but is still easy to clean.

Still think it's something how long it takes people (including reefers) to notice no sand. If your not sure what to do can start BB and always add sand later if you don't like the look. If you do go sand suggest you consider just a SSB.

[reefwars]

During the first year your tank will see all colours and problems it has to learn to stabilize kinda like a child learning to walk, the ultimate solution is patience every reefer wants to solve problems or ditch the real trick us playing things out. Sandbeds have a knack for solving their own problems and messing with it doesn't help and removing it doesn't get rid of the problem, it's all part of becoming established. Some systems establish rather quick some take forever that's where making patient decisions and informed decisions cones in:)

Someday I'll be doing a bb tank ive seen some real nice ones :)

[reefwars]

I think if I were to go bb I would paint the bottom black:):)

[RuGlu6]

bare bottom is easier to keep clean, as well as safer in terms of "Old Tank Syndrome", when deep sand bed accumulates so much dirt that tank is polluted with Hydrogen Sulfide and everything is dead in very short period of time.
If you really want sand keep it at 1" inch level.

[Rbacchiega]

I've run everything from BB to DSB and everything in between. Frankly I think BB or super shallow sand bed are the way to go. Easy to clean and, as has already been said, will soon be covered in Coraline or zoas so you don't really need to worry. I've even seen one tank on RC that had pretty much a "lawn" of GSP.

The only reason I'm going with a super shallow sandbed in the 20 gallon is for looks...there won't be a goby, but will be some sand sifting snails.

Either way you go will determine how you're going to secure live rock for display.

Hope this helps!

[xtreme]

Cover the bottom with zoas, acans clams etc then you won't have to worry about seeing the glass. If you'd like to see an established BB tank you're more than welcome to come have a look...

[marie]

I'm of a different school of thought from just about everybody on this board :lol:

As far as I'm concerned detritus is your friend, it is a food source for many different filter feeders and corals so I have a 3" sand bed that is undisturbed (except when I lift a rock). I have been successful so far and my tank will be 5 yrs old in march :mrgreen:

[mark]

take a look at the first couple of pictures in this thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35197) for a GSP-bottom

[sharky222]

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback....still haven't decided what to do, but I am less confused by all the options!

I am gathering from various posts that one reason to have sand is to keep the aquascaping secure. However, I have read that the rocks should go on BB rather than sand, since pockets can form between the two if the rock is place right on top of the sand. True? If I go BB, how do I keep my rocks from shifting?

Anyway, still debating....I like the thought of having sand-burrowing critters, so it will probably come down to that.

[sharky222]

Xtreme, could you post a picture of your established BB tank?

[StirCrazy]

I'll put in another recomendation for very little sand or no sand. 9 years ago I went for the DSB craze and with in 4 years I had problems like you wouldn't believe, I took the sand out and all the problems went away.

I wouldn't use sand at all in a tank again, and Barbottom takes a while to get looking nice, but there are other ways like useing a natural stone tile on the bottom like Travertine, or marble, ect.. Travertine is composed of Calcium carbonate (limestone) so it pretty much the same make up as live rock, and corals can attach to it veary easy. one thing look for pouros Travertine not filled.

Steve

[Sean]

If you are new to the hobby going with no sand is nice to learn how things acually work. You can see where detris is collecting and you can easily suck it up. For me it was a good learning experience on my first tank to have no sand.

That being said I personally love the look of sand, and find it no problem to keep clean. Crabs help :)

[mark]

I am gathering from various posts that one reason to have sand is to keep the aquascaping secure. However, I have read that the rocks should go on BB rather than sand, since pockets can form between the two if the rock is place right on top of the sand. True? If I go BB, how do I keep my rocks from shifting?


My rocks directly on the glass and don't move.

If planning sand don't place the rocks directly on the sand as will settle and shift. What I did when I had a DSB was make platforms out of egg-crating and zip-ties so the bottom 3-4 inches of the rock wasn't buried.

[MitchM]

There is a reference library on this board that has a lot of good reading on the topics of sandbeds:

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Have a read through it:smile:

When I was in Calgary, the first LFS I dealt with encouraged BB as well. I wonder if it's the same one?

I tried BB for a while, but have always enjoyed the added diversity of DSB's.

Mitch

[Chin_Lee]

you can always add sand AFTER the fact. Its as easy as putting sand in a container, put it into the water and then pouring it out where you want it.

I vote BB and my tanks have GSP growing along the bottom which looks really nice too.

[Reefer Rob]

This is the most civilized sand thread I've ever seen... by the way, I have no opinion :mrgreen: Sand or no sand, it's all good.

[sharky222]

Thanks, everyone, for the advice! I've decided to tack the $4.99 sand-printed drawer-liner from Canadian Tire to the underside of the tank.....BB it is! For now, at least..... :)

[Rbacchiega]

I think it's a wise decision. Like it's already been said, you can always add a shallow or even deep sand bed after the fact. Alot of the bb tanks that are established you don't even notice the bare bottom till you really look

[xtreme]

Here is a couple pics of my tank from a while back. You can see how corals will spread and cover the bottom if you give them time. And the coraline doesn't look all that bad.

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp144/xtreme1980/IMG_1909.jpg

http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp144/xtreme1980/IMG_1912.jpg

[sharky222]

WOW. Nice tank! I wouldn't even have noticed the BB....go figure....