Fish Death continues.... Any solutions....

[moppy]

I've been in the salt water hobby for many years and continue to have the same problem:

Corals live and look great, fish die...

I can't figure it out as I've always been told that corals are way harder to keep than fish but I have no trouble with corals, just my fish...

It's 120 gallon tank with a 40 gallon sump.

FIsh list: Coral Beauty, Yellow Tang, Coris Wrasse, Leapard Wrasse, Bi-Colour and Scooter Blennies, Goby, Firefish and 2 clowns (I could list the other 7 that have died since the tank started 5 months ago but it' too depressing). None seem to be picking on the others.

Water quality is good, no nitrates, no phosphates, calcium and alkalinity are a bit low but not much... Salinity is fine as is temperature.

My copperband was the latest to go yesterday and he has been eating like a pig everyday, looked totally healthy and then dead. Looked at the tank last night and there were 2 large worms (looked like bristle) and about 5 nassiruis? snails eating him. When I put the rock into the tank I tried to do a thorough check to make sure there were not predators and I don't have any clicking to indicate a mantis (nor have I ever seen one).

Will these worms kill fish? The snails? I have no solutions????

[marie]

I don't know why your other fish die but CBB's have a poor track record in aquariums. There has been more then one CBB that has done the exact same thing yours has....eating one day dead the next.

[Wayne]

Unfortunatly you are going to have to list the fish and how long they were in your tank for :( Some fish just arn't ment for these glass boxes.

[bvlester]

what is your PH at if it is to high or too low it can kill. some fish are more sensitive than others to this. How long do they live in your tank before they Die?
and what are all the tank test results in digits please.

[naesco]

How long has this tank been running.
Which fish have you lost.
Which fish remain.
Describe how the fish are lost. spots, difficulty breathing, sores, just disappear etc.

[NanoHuman]

Losing fish like clownfish that some see as bulletproof is a sign that something is seriously wrong but hard to pin down, or test for.

[lngrhaul]

I recently had a very similar situation.

I moved my 55 gallon tank into a 180 after cycling etc. Waited a couple of months for things to stabilize and then added some new fish.

All my parameters were good but no new fish would live. all the original fish were fine but new guys didn't make it. some would die right away and some would last a few days to a week and would be eating - then the next day they were gone.

I really don't know exactly what was wrong, but here's what I did and I have recently been successful in adding new fish that have survived for a few weeks now.

First I started dealing with any problems that were obvious. I had green hair algae - although my parameters were fine I obviously had a nutrient problem that was hidden by the algea eating the nutrients. I lowered my phosphates and did a bunch of manual pruning and reduced my lighting cycles until it was all gone. I then fine tuned my temp and salinity. My temp had been climbing a bit - closer to 80 so I increased my chilling and dropped it down to 78. I also found my salt creeping towards 1.025-1.026 so dropped that down to 1.024.

I increased my water changes to weekly and did not add anything new for 6-8 weeks.

I started using the Brighwell bacteria weekly and found that everything in the tank really responded well to that.

I did a really good cleaning of all my equipment and cleaned any detrious from the sump etc.

doesn't really sound like much but I just worked on getting my parameters as close to perfect as I could and ensured that all my husbandry was top notch.

I think the biggest help was just not adding anything for a couple of months - letting whatever was going on in the tank settle down and go away.

good luck.

[moppy]

Thanks for all the inputs so far but here is some more info:

Water Parameters:
temperature 80 degrees ish...
Salinity 1.022 - 1.024
Nitrates 0 - 2.5 ppm
Phosphates 0 ppm
Alkalinity 70 (kit I use to measure says it should be around 100)
Calcium 450 (kit I use to measure says it should be around 450)

Fish (and other things) that have died:
Copperband - nothing noticably wrong had for 5 months
Flame Hawk - jumped after 1 day
Red Scooter - didn't look skinning or anything had for 3 months
Potter's Angel - nothing wrong had for 2 months
Lawnmower Bleeny - nothing noticably wrong had for 1 month
Madarin Goby - nothing wrong had for a year and a half
Sohal Tang - didn't really eat too much had for 2 months
Bar Goby, Flasher Wrasse and Firefish- jumped after a number of months
Cleaner Shrimp - nothing wrong had for 2 years

This tank has been going for about 5 months but I moved everything from another tank that had been running for a year and a half. I used mostly the water from the first tanks but new sand (with some dosing from the old). Didn't get most of the new fish for about 2 months after the new tank was running.

Hope that enough info... I know they're not all perfect but again, if the corals are doing well shouldn't the fish be fine since they're hardier????

thanks everyone...

[Myka]

Alkalinity 70 (kit I use to measure says it should be around 100)
Should be closer to 140-160 ppm imo.

Calcium 450 (kit I use to measure says it should be around 450)
Should be 380-430 ppm imo.

Fish (and other things) that have died:
Copperband - nothing noticably wrong had for 5 months
This is typical of CBBs. They do not generally do well in captivity long-term.
Flame Hawk - jumped after 1 day
Many fish will jump when first acclimated or anytime when chased or startled. In the ocean they can't fall out, so jumping is quite natural for many fish as a way to avoid predators or catch food, etc.
Red Scooter - didn't look skinning or anything had for 3 months
Did you ever see him eat prepared foods? If he was in there at the same time as the Mandarin there would be food competition. I would guess he starved even if you didn't think he looked skinny.
Potter's Angel - nothing wrong had for 2 months
Possibly worms or flukes. That's about the right time span. Did you ever see him rubbing or flashing on anything?
Lawnmower Bleeny - nothing noticably wrong had for 1 month
Starvation? They eat LOTS of algae and don't usually eat prepared foods.
Madarin Goby - nothing wrong had for a year and a half
Kinda weird if you had him that long.
Sohal Tang - didn't really eat too much had for 2 months
Sounds like starvation.
Bar Goby, Flasher Wrasse and Firefish- jumped after a number of months
See Flamehawk.
Cleaner Shrimp - nothing wrong had for 2 years
Kinda weird too. Sometimes they get stuck in their molt though, and will die. Iodine plays a part in their molting...too much or too little, both are bad.

Hope that enough info... I know they're not all perfect but again, if the corals are doing well shouldn't the fish be fine since they're hardier????
I find most corals hardier than most fish.

[lngrhaul]

corals rely on different things to survive/thrive - such as good lighting and flow. they need calcium to grow (stonies) but I find the rest of the water parameters are more for the fish.

if you have only had the tank running for 5 months then you still have new tank syndrome - even though you filled it with stuff from your other tank. Same problem I had.

your temp is too high and your salinity needs to be consistently close to 1.024. Your alk also needs to come way up.

work on these parameters and don't add anything new for a couple of months. then try a couple cheap fish and see how they do.

[ponokareefer]

I think Myka hit the nail on the head with the specific reasons for most of the deaths, and ingrhaul has some great advise as well. 5 months in essentially a "new" system is still pretty young and the bacteria may not have had a chance to fully develop to handle the bio-load appropriately. Even if using the old system water, rock, sand, etc, the new set up will still take quite a while to establish a balance.
As for the mandarin, I got a mated pair from someone that was eating prepared foods for quite some time, but the male just stopped once it hit my tank. The female is still doing well though.

[bvlester]

what you really need to do is some reading before you buy any fish you have to know what fish eat what you do not want too many fish competing for the same food all the time one or the other will die sooner or latter. Stay away from the hard to keep fish for now your system is too young for them. Most corals are heartier than fish they can stand to be out of water for hours at a time fish can not. corals can be cut into peaces and survive fish can not, do I have to go on. Just slow down and buy some nice fish like a flame angle they are a nice hardy fish. A lot of the flame angles are reef safe till they mature to adults and then its a 50/50 game... You can cut the chances of them turning by feeding them a bit more than the other fish by training them to come to a spot first and then give then some of the food and then feed the rest in a different area of the tank..

bill