View Full Version : Explain this!
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 09:02 PM
All the burnt area is towards the outside of the holder. The wiring is fine. Hmm...
http://www.islandreef.ca/post/fire.jpg
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 09:03 PM
Oh, for those that don't recognize it, it's an Icecap waterproof end cap
Geezus. That has been happening A LOT lately. That's why I am scared to leave my VHO's on when I go to work.
Have you read this thread Brad?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=250465&highlight=icecap+and+fire
Many believe it's from the arcing that is caused when the endcaps are too far apart from each other which causes the connection to be loose.
Bob I
11-29-2003, 09:32 PM
As an electrician I have seen that numerous times. It is clearly a heating problem. I have to ask if the tube is in contact with the burnt area. If so it being VHO there is lots of heat. It looks like the material is not proper for the amount of heat. In which case the fault lies with Icecap. :eek:
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 09:46 PM
Bob, the bulb is not in contact with the cap. And this particular bulb has been in use for almost a year with no problems. The other side is fine. The cap also has a distinct burnt smell, which I don't think would exist if it just melted from heat. I really have no idea though, so you could be right. I haven't read that thread about arcing yet, so maybe something there will help.
I haven't read that thread about arcing yet, so maybe something there will help.
Start reading then...
4 separate incidences from the first page alone:
"The smoke alarm went off and when I looked, there was the end of the VHO ON FIRE!! with the plastic endcap plastic dripping flames "
"Crazy, I just had an end cap catch fire last week. I had just got home from work and it smelt like burnt plastic, so I started looking around. I couldn't find anything, so I kinda blew it off for 5 minutes. I went back to my room to start looking again and there was 2 foot high flame on my fish tank.
"
"This happened to one of my maintinence accounts as well. Nothing like getting a call before they called the Fire Dept. lol. Icecap 660 driving 4 110w VHO. Started with a 3 piece end caps, burned through 3/8" acrylic holder and then started a plastic eggcrate on fire and sent fine soot particles all over the 5000+ sq foot house. "
"I had the same type of thing happen last week. New workhorse7 and new icecap 2 piece endcaps. "
Bob I
11-29-2003, 10:16 PM
Just a dumb question to satisfy my curiosity. Is that burnt atea anywhere near where the pins of the tube connect to the base. :question: It sounds like there is arcing at that point. It also sounds like Icecap should soon be switching to porcelain endcaps. :rolleyes:
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 10:20 PM
Sam ,I read it...pretty scary.
Bob, no, the damage was at the opposite end of the cap from the pins. The contact area looks brand new. No arcing lines, no salt deposition, nothing. The part of the cap that is directly over the pins is fine.
Bob I
11-29-2003, 10:30 PM
It sounds the that it is caused by the heat of the tube. I know a 110W VHO tube gets very warm. It appears that the endcap material is not rated for the heat generated. Icecap may have changed the material the endcap is made of after the thing was inspected for their UL listing. I would most certainly be going after Icecap for restitution. :eek:
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 10:31 PM
Bob, here are some pics of the inside sleeve. The black gasket is the pin end. The damage started at the other side and worked it's way in.
http://www.islandreef.ca/post/fire1.jpg
http://www.islandreef.ca/post/fire2.jpg
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 10:32 PM
It sounds the that it is caused by the heat of the tube. I know a 110W VHO tube gets very warm.
The cap is rated to 230 F
Bob I
11-29-2003, 10:37 PM
Well Brad I am a long way away, but looking at the pics, I see melting due to heat, and us Imperial guys know that water boils at 212 degrees F, and I have the feeling that tube gets MUCH warmer that that. I of course don't know if that is beyond the temperature of a NEW tube. Just toooo many questions. :rolleyes:
BTW see I have now reached 1900 posts, wheee :biggrin:
Aquattro
11-29-2003, 10:40 PM
Bob, you may be right. I didn't experience flames and brimstone like the RC thread, my bulb just went out. Maybe the bulb peaked at one end and generated excessive heat? Not sure, but I'm curious how to prevent it in the future.
Bob I
11-29-2003, 10:46 PM
I would say that 230 degrees does not leave a lot of room to play temp wise. That is why most mogul base bulb holders are made of porcelain. I suspect if Icecap gets a lot of flack, or even sued, changes will be made. That is a very dangerous situation, and folks need to get after them pronto, posthaste, immediately :eek:
Geez Brad. Thats enough to scare anyone. Send the pics to Icecap and see what they say.
zulu_principle
11-30-2003, 04:09 PM
Brad
Have you contacted icecap ?
Interested in what they have to say.
Do the endcaps have to be CSA approved ?
Wendell
Bob I
11-30-2003, 04:28 PM
Interesting point Wendell. In theory I believe it is yes, but in practice :question: :question: I just looked at both my Coralife fixtures for example, and found no CSA labels, or even UL labels. :confused:
Aquattro
11-30-2003, 06:31 PM
Apparently Andy, the president of Icecap, is well aware of these crispy caps. He has posted a word doc that explains the proper use of the endcaps and recommends they are installed by a professional electrician. I suppose that releases them from responsibility. :confused:
Bob I
11-30-2003, 07:11 PM
Hmmmm, part time job for me installing endcaps. Brad, send me airfare, and I will install them for free. :BIG:
StirCrazy
12-03-2003, 10:50 PM
I doubt that this was caused from the tempature of the bulb as they are only slightly over 130 degrees. usaly this is cause from the caps being installed incorectly and every time they are started there is a slight arching. eventualy this will get stronger untill this happens. this is why I use the push on water proof ends at they clip on much tighter and give a more solid conection and are also totaly water proof not just semi water proof.
If you want that type of end again Brad I know whare you can get metal industreal ones but they are a little more expensive.
Steve
Aquattro
12-03-2003, 11:46 PM
usaly this is cause from the caps being installed incorectly and every time they are started there is a slight arching. eventualy this will get stronger untill this happens.
I don't think this is the case this time. All the burning was not at the pin end, it was at the bulb end of the cap. Arcing happens at the pins, not the middle of the bulb.
Jayson
12-04-2003, 01:04 AM
I had the same problem acouple of years ago. Themelted down end caps and the wood stand caught fire. The fire went out by itself,but my house smelled aweful.
Aquattro
12-04-2003, 02:26 AM
but my house smelled aweful.
Right, I forgot to mention that part!! It's the kind of smell that lingers for days!! :razz:
:eek: Yow, Jayson, you never told me that story. :smile:
Jayson
12-04-2003, 05:57 PM
Doug, I do keep some secrets. Mostly from my wife.
StirCrazy
12-05-2003, 05:10 AM
was there a chance you had some carry over to the cap due to salt spray that could have caused it? overheating will melt and brown a PVC cap but not scorch it. who knows maybe the metal ones are what you need :)
Steve
Aquattro
12-05-2003, 05:33 AM
was there a chance you had some carry over to the cap due to salt spray that could have caused it?
Nope, thee was no salt at all. The gaskets do a good job of sealing it.
StirCrazy
12-05-2003, 05:33 AM
weird.
BillyPrefect
12-05-2003, 04:50 PM
Hi first off, I think this is probably my first post...
Secondly, was that burnt cap connected to an ice cap ballast as well? I had one that blew itself up twice, after the second time I sat and watched it... man did that thing ever get hot - I thought it was because of the dimmer tho, something frequency type related.
Aquattro
12-05-2003, 05:10 PM
Hi first off, I think this is probably my first post...
Secondly, was that burnt cap connected to an ice cap ballast as well? I had one that blew itself up twice, after the second time I sat and watched it... man did that thing ever get hot - I thought it was because of the dimmer tho, something frequency type related.
Yes, this is your first post. Welcome to Canreef.
No, it wasn't an Icecap ballast, it was a WH7.
Sure are a lot of fires lately. Seems unusually high. What's the common denominator? VHO endcaps.
http://aquariacanada.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12723#post12723
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