MitchM tank build

[MitchM]

I received back the CAD drawing for it today.:smile:
Hopefully it will be here in about 6 weeks.
Acrylic tank size is 96L X 48W X 30H. 600 gallons.

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/20100916122624492.jpg

Circulation planned is to use 4 1" SeaSwirls in each corner (holes in brace predrilled) powered by a couple of ReefFlo pumps on closed loops (intakes are 4 holes along bottom of back wall) The idea with the SeaSwirls is to keep the top water zone moving well.
For a sump return I am planning on about 3500gph, return location yet to be determined.
I'll be supplementing tank flow with some Vortechs. I plan on putting in a 4" DSB and see how far I can push circulation over top of the sandbed.

I already have a few Luminarc III 400W lamps. I'll start out by putting 2 over the tank over the access holes. I also ordered lexan lids for the openings. I'll see if I can get a PAR meter and see how much of a difference the lids make.
I don't plan on supplementing the lighting.
Who knows, maybe there will be some plasma lights sometime in the future!

This is going to be a fun winter!

Mitch

[Delphinus]

Wowza, that's some tank! Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

[untamed]

Love the dimensions and love the acrylic!

My only concern (and it's too late now) is the acrylic thickness. Hopefully, it is 1" thick, but that will leave you unable to use the Vortechs which I believe won't work on 1" acrylic. I would bet that a 96" x 30" panel would deflect if it were 3/4" thick.

Get some of these large strainers for those intakes. Like these (on the right, NOT like the ones on the left)... These don't clog up or create dangerous suction like the smaller ones do.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/Aquarium%20Construction/100_0122.jpg

These strainers only come in female threaded, so put a female threaded bulkhead in and shorten a threaded nipple so that the strainer fits as snugly as possible against the bulkhead. Have a couple extra so you can just swap them out to clean them.

Nice...How many sides are you going to have viewable?...and what are the plans for your fishroom?

[The Codfather]

The new MP60 will work on 1" thickness

[MitchM]

I was thinking of the MP60's already.

The tank is 3/4". I asked Tenecor if by switching to 1" I could reduce the size of the bracing, but they said no. It would only give a thicker appearance to the acrylic. For the price (and added weight) it didn't seem worth it.

Untamed, I did see those strainers on your tank build and want to get those. You got them from U.S. Plastics, didn't you?

This tank is going in my workshop, so the fish room options are pretty much open. No restrictions for height or space.
3 sides viewable, with a blue back.

Mitch

[Willito]

Nice tank, I am suprise you didn't go with 1" acrylic. With that height and width, 3/4" won't give you the piece of mind that 1" would. If you have decided to go this big, why stinch on the most important part.

[MitchM]

Because Tenecor are the builders and that's what they recommended.:smile:

Mitch

[untamed]

I was thinking of the MP60's already.

The tank is 3/4". I asked Tenecor if by switching to 1" I could reduce the size of the bracing, but they said no. It would only give a thicker appearance to the acrylic. For the price (and added weight) it didn't seem worth it.

Untamed, I did see those strainers on your tank build and want to get those. You got them from U.S. Plastics, didn't you?

This tank is going in my workshop, so the fish room options are pretty much open. No restrictions for height or space.
3 sides viewable, with a blue back.

Mitch

Yes, I think it was US Plastics. They were difficult to find and I had to order them from the US...that much I recall.

[MitchM]

I called Tenecor today, they were just starting on the tank...
A 3/4 tank will deflect 1/4" at the most, and a 1" would be negligible.
I told them to go ahead and upgrade to the 1".
Thanks for the input.

Mitch

[untamed]

I think that is a good call. My tank is 1" all round. When I'm working in the tank, I lay a plank across the opening and kneel on top of the tank to work. I imagine you'll be able to do that as well, and it is quite handy.

[MitchM]

Just a note of interest regarding acrylic thickness - Today I came across another 600g tank on the net - Dakotareef.
His tank is 120L X 48W X 24H.

Made from 1/2" acrylic in 2006.

Mitch

[untamed]

Just a note of interest regarding acrylic thickness - Today I came across another 600g tank on the net - Dakotareef.
His tank is 120L X 48W X 24H.

Made from 1/2" acrylic in 2006.

Mitch

Oh yeah...they are out there. You can also find reports of seams blowing out on some acrylic tanks, which should never happen. (not suggesting that one is going to blow) It just isn't the aspect of the tank that you should try to save money on.

It is interesting to me that the 120" x 24" is exactly the same sq.in area as your 96" x 30". Yet, I think you get MORE deflection in a 96x30 panel than you get in a 120x24 panel because the smallest dimension, 30", is larger.

[MitchM]

Acrylic does sound pretty tough (other than scratching easily) from what I have been reading.
I think we tend to overbuild our tanks and stands, but when you think about it, if anybody would tend to overbuild the tanks, it would be the manufacturer. After all they are the ones that need to honour the warranties.

Anyway - as we all know....this thread is useless without pictures!
(where's the emoticon?)

This is my present sump area that is going to be rebuilt:
I'm thinking of building a single wall unit, painted white. The new tank will be backing onto the other side of what you can see here.
I've already received a new 300gpd RO/DI unit plus 2 jumbo BRS reactors. I started one of the reactors on GFO and this week I'll be starting the other one on GAC next weekend, replacing the current Deltec FR509.

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_2980.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_2982.jpg

Mitch

[untamed]

Totally "mad scientist" looking! Well done.

[lastlight]

Talk to user "Acrylics" on RC. I'd trust whatever he suggests and I highly doubt he'd roll with the 1/2" in your case. He's the guy behind Envision Acrylics, is insanely knowledgeable in matters like this AND built Brad's tank if I recall correctly.

[MitchM]

Thanks Brett, didn't know that. (the decision's been made, but there must be a formula that is used to calculate these things!)

"mad scientist"..lol:smile:

Mitch

[rstar]

Love the mad laboratory look. I'm tagging along, going to be an interesting build!

[MitchM]

My wife says I'm not allowed to get sick or die.

Mitch

[MitchM]

Tenecor called today. The tank is finished and is leaving their facility in Phoenix on the 18th.:smile:

Mitch

[MitchM]

I've ordered the sand and salt:

Sand
800 lbs Sugar size
150 lbs Select size
40 lbs Special grade

Salt
Seachem Salinity (Aquavitro) 8 pails

It should all be ready for me to pick up around Oct. 20.

Mitch

[Delphinus]

Where did you order the sand from?

[MitchM]

Red Coral.

Mitch

[Delphinus]

Cool, thanks. I think I might order some sand as well after all for mine which is why I ask (I had originally planned on BB but have changed my mind.) How did you figure out how much to order?

[MitchM]

Hi Tony,

I'm following Ron Shimek's guidelines as best I can that I found here:

http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Particle size distribution:

0.1-0.5 mm = 80%
0.1-0.75 mm = 15%
1.2-1.7 mm = 4%
1.7-2.5 mm = 1%

Here's a link to his discussion about it:

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic70539-11-1.aspx?Highlight=dsb+0.1

I am trying for a 4" or better depth.

Mitch

[MitchM]

Well the tank finally arrived today.
There was a 2 week delay getting out of Tenecor. I was able to track it up through the border, no hassles there.
Environment Canada issued a heavy snow/ winter storm warning for our area so I tracked down the aquarium to a yard in Calgary and asked if I can come and pick it up before we have snow on the ground. We live on a steep hill.
First they said yes, then they said it would be too much trouble to empty out a 53' trailer to get to it. I told them it would be less hassle than pulling their truck out of the ditch....no go...:confused:
They ship it to Red Deer....it snows of course...now they won't deliver it until the roads are "clear"...
Next they ship it to Sundre...well, we only go to Water Valley on Fridays...o.k. it's Friday...we're on our way...Hello?..this is the shipping company...our truck broke down, we'll call you in a few days.
So it shows up today. I'm glad the temperature is 0 and not the -27 it was there for a bit.:smile:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3649.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3650.jpg

It's just me here to do this, so I get my tractor and unload it:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3651.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3652.jpg

In order not to put too much pressure on the sides of the tank, I cut a couple of 2 X 4's a bit wider than the tank and hold the straps off the edges of the aquarium:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3654.jpg

...and away I go:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3656.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3658.jpg

I wasn't totally alone..I did have an audience:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3659.jpg

I placed it up on my table saw and unwrapped it:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3662.jpg

The best part...not a single scratch!:smile:

Here's the feeding tube and you can see the edges rabbeted for the lexan lids I ordered:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3663.jpg

The back 40" overflow:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3665.jpg
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3666.jpg

Here are the intake strainers, with my iPhone on top for size comparison:
http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3668.jpg

While I was waiting for the aquarium I was looking at a full size piece of plywood, trying to imagine aquascaping this thing. This is going to be a daunting task.:twised:

Mitch



.

[Delphinus]

Looks great!!!

Tank this size there should be lots of fun options for 'scaping methinks. That said, I hate aquascaping. :lol: Mostly because I'm hugely fussy, but tend to really like what others can do and really hate what I can do. I'm sure everyone feels this way about their tank to an extent but it's *really bad* in my case.

Were this my tank, I'd probably go with bommies and ravines, and bommies the size that I had originally thought of for my 280 before I put them in the tank and realized how much too big they were for my tank, which was too bad because I really liked the shapes .... but anyhow it's your tank so don't listen to me and go with whatever vision you had in mind. :lol:

[Red Coral Aquariums]

Now there's a monster tank.
Kevin

[MitchM]

Looks great!!!

....... but anyhow it's your tank so don't listen to me and go with whatever vision you had in mind. :lol:

Thanks Tony.

I don't actually have a vision, other than some basics.
I want a healthy diverse sandbed, and the live rock to be suspended above the sandbed with enough circulation space in order to prevent detritus buildup within the rock structure.
I have some fairly old live rock (well, old as far as closed system aquariums go) I've had some of this live rock for 10+ years.
Cooking live rock is basically keeping it in it's own system and allowing the rock to shed accumulated detritus. I would like to do that in a system that can handle the shed detritus on an ongoing basis.

In nature, coral larvae spread everywhere and successfully grow where there is sufficient food. We do it backwards in that regard - we place coral first and then try to bring food to them.
I would like to set up my system in such a way so that there are areas of food concentration that I can identify and then place coral in those spots and see if they are successful. I don't know, maybe I'm dreaming here ..:lol:

I'm going to be trying to raise and enrich some artemia first and see what happens to them in the main tank. I'll decide on my direction of the display from there.

I'll be drilling, pegging and epoxying the rock structure to begin with, hopefully I'll be able to create a couple of pockets where food will swirl and accumulate.

One thing that I haven't dealt with yet is the return water from the overflow. The overflow is built to handle 3500 gph. I will need to drill some return holes in the top bracing of the tank. I'm not sure if I should go with a lot of small return piping, or maybe just 2 large return pipes.
If anyone has some suggestions, I'm all ears.:smile:

Mitch

[untamed]

Looks great! Nice strainers. I know those work perfectly and create zero dangerous suction at their surface. Use a threaded bh so you can unscrew and replace them easily for cleaning.

If you aim a couple of the cl outputs upward slightly toward the surface, you won't have any need for Sea swirls. (I've heard that they don't run reliably for long periods...but I've not personally used them) My water surface boils from two outputs on the bottom of the tank.

You mention "a couple of Reeflo pumps"...but only have 4 holes in the back wall? Two holes for the strainers, leaves only two holes for tank inputs?

Consider using two of the top/corner holes as sump returns (over the top will prevent back draining in power failure). Use the other two top/corner holes as part of your CL's. Even though you are a bit short on holes, you could still put an OM-4way on one or both CL's. You'll just have to connect two outputs into one, but you'll still get benefit of the current mixing they can provide.

I like your idea of placing coral where the food appears to be. It is going to test your patience to wait that long to add corals!

[MitchM]

Thanks!
Actually all 4 holes along the back are the intakes and the four holes in the top bracing are for 1" Seaswirls. I'll have 2 Reeflo Superdart gold pumps each having 2 intakes and supplying two seaswirls. I've had seaswirls before and I liked them.
I also like the seaswirls in that they will keep mainly the top level water moving. I'll get maybe a Vortech or two for the mid water movement.
I would like just a slow but constant movement across the sand bed.

Mitch

[MitchM]

...continued from the
Bidirectional flow thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=70561)


(****Post from Kevin at Red Coral)


There are 4 holes drilled in the top brace to accommodate 4 seaswirls,

****1.5" bulkheads

which were to be fed by the 4 holes drilled in the lower bottom back of the tank.

**** I can't tell the size of these holes I would hope they are for 2" Bulkheads

My original sump return was to be determined and because the tank is acrylic I have the ability to reasonable modify it.

**** You can modify as acrylic is easy to drill but with such an incredible tank (do you want to?)

What I would like to do is use only the front two top holes for the seaswirls and drop a couple supply pipes originating from the sump down the back two top holes.

**** seaswirls are an option.

The two supply pipes would alternate the flow, clockwise or counter clockwise in 5 hours one direction with a 1 hour rest followed by 5 hours in the opposite direction, 1 hour rest. Repeat.

**** I personally do not recommend creating the directional flow from your supply lines from your sump..This is where your heaters, filtering etc. are located and do you want to shut that down for an hour every 5 hours. Your directional flow pattern is also where it could become problematic. Do you really want or need to create this flow supply from the sump?


The top zone would be kept moving through the closed loop full time.
I have 1 reeflo dart supergold for the closed loop and 1 reeflo dart supergold for the sump return.

Depending on the results of the final setup, I was leaving open the option of adding the MP60's. The price of them is giving me a lot of incentive to minimize how many (if any) I put in there.

**** If the 4 closed loop holes in the lower back are 2" bulkheads you could then add another dart gold and use 2 of these each to supply a pump and each return would be to one side of the tank. You could pipe in whatever flow and to what areas you wanted. Then with timers you could create your directional flow at the 5/ 1/ 5 timing.

****Kevin

[MitchM]

Hi Kevin,

The holes in the top are 2 1/4", the holes in the back are 2 1/2".

That's a good point about the heaters. I wonder how much heat the tank would lose? I heard that acrylic had some insulating properties, plus I'll also be using lids on the tank.
I'm not too concerned about the temporary loss of filtering at this point. I don't want a heavily stocked tank. The tank feedings could occur near the end of the rest cycle.

If I went with your last setup suggestion, I would still need to drill a couple of holes for the sump return, wouldn't I?

[Skimmerking]

Hey Mitch you should get the ECO Reef Rock and do the dry structures that is what Im doing with my 96footer too. i love the rock easy to work with and alot better and then you can take your time with it...:wink:

[MitchM]

Hey Mitch you should get the ECO Reef Rock and do the dry structures that is what Im doing with my 96footer too. i love the rock easy to work with and alot better and then you can take your time with it...:wink:

Hi Mike,

That's what I was going to be doing with the base layer - then I was going to drill and peg my existing LR onto that.:smile:
If I need more after that, I'll most likely get more Eco Reef Rock.

[MitchM]

.

[mr.wilson]

Sorry, if I'm making an already confusing discussion, even more so, but I have a few questions about your design. There are four holes in the top for the (now two) Seaswirls, but the plumbing is coming up from within the tank?

The Supergold Darts only have 12' head before shut-off so I assume you have 1.5" plumbing all the way up, and you aren't going more than 6' up. That 4300 GPH quickly turns into 2200GPH with 6' of head, a ball valve, check valve, and a few elbows. If the two Seaswirls are on a closed loop they will also have more headloss than your proposed tidal system. How many effluent lines will you have on your closed loop? I assume you are dropping down to 1" at the Seaswirls. You may only have 1500GPH on your closed loop by the time you finish up.

You may want to consider a pressure rated sump return pump like a Blueline or Iwaki 100 for the two Seaswirls and use four 1.5" effluent lines (reduced to 1" at the tank) for each of the two Superdart closed loops.

One of the benefits of an OM unit over solenoids (other than cost and noise), is that the OM will allow some passive flow through the closed line(s). This is beneficial considering that these lines will be off for 5 hours and will become anaerobic. Also keep in mind that you may have some air in the lines as they fire back up again. The bubbles aren't a big problem for corals or fish, but they do make a mess of your lighting (salt spray). The Om unit will not allow air into the line when it is cycled "off". The OM has a soft on/off cycle so you don't dislodge biofilms from your plumbing every time it changes path/direction, as you would with an abrupt cycle.

I'm leery of turning pumps on and off on frequent cycles, especially pumps that are not magnetically coupled such as the Sequence line. I find with these pumps, particularly as sump returns, perform and sound differently as the impeller settles in varying positions. If you set it and forget it, these pumps are reliable. Pumps with a soft on/off are another story.

Are you using the check valve as an air intake or to physically stop water flow (back siphon)? Is it a swing, ball or wye style check valve?

I'm not sure if you will achieve your tidal sequence if you are just using one pump to go through the cycle.

[mr.wilson]

The lids will raise the tank temp at least 5˚F. They will limit gas exchange slightly, but it isn't a major concern. You will get condensation and salt creep/spray and the lids will become cloudy further diffusing light. If you are using metal halide lighting, the lids will warp considerably. Flipping them weekly helps keep them straight.

[lastlight]

Lol not recommending a pair of Abyzz with a controller just yet Mr. W? It's certainly not a cheap option.

That's how I'd do it. You could run them 100,10... 10,100 so the lines don't go stagnant.

[MitchM]

Sorry, if I'm making an already confusing discussion, even more so, but I have a few questions about your design. There are four holes in the top for the (now two) Seaswirls, but the plumbing is coming up from within the tank?

Hi Mr. Wilson,

Thanks for your input, I've been following your work on RC.:smile:
The original design was to have closed loops with two Dart pumps. Each pump would have 2 of the rear intakes and supply 2 of the seaswirls. The pumps were to be mounted on the back of the stand itself just below the level of the tank. This mounting would be similar to the mounting of the closed loop pumps on the Penn State main display tank. As it is a closed loop system, head loss would be minimized and friction would be minimized by keeping the actual plumbing run as short as possible.
When I ordered the tank I had not determined the sump return and had intended on drilling the tank as needed for that.

At this point I am going to be using only the front two seaswirls and dropping two supply pipes from the sump down the two rear holes that were originally going to hold the two rear seaswirls. That means that I will have the 4 rear intakes for 1 Dart pump supplying the two front seaswirls.

...That 4300 GPH quickly turns into 2200GPH with 6' of head, a ball valve, check valve, and a few elbows. If the two Seaswirls are on a closed loop they will also have more headloss than your proposed tidal system. How many effluent lines will you have on your closed loop? I assume you are dropping down to 1" at the Seaswirls. You may only have 1500GPH on your closed loop by the time you finish up.

There are no check valves in my design. I have not had good experiences with them in the past.

may want to consider a pressure rated sump return pump like a Blueline or Iwaki 100 for the two Seaswirls and use four 1.5" effluent lines (reduced to 1" at the tank) for each of the two Superdart closed loops.

As the system sits now, 1 dart pump will be supplying close to the limit of 2 seaswirls rated GPH.


of the benefits of an OM unit over solenoids (other than cost and noise), is that the OM will allow some passive flow through the closed line(s). This is beneficial considering that these lines will be off for 5 hours and will become anaerobic. Also keep in mind that you may have some air in the lines as they fire back up again. The bubbles aren't a big problem for corals or fish, but they do make a mess of your lighting (salt spray). The Om unit will not allow air into the line when it is cycled "off". The OM has a soft on/off cycle so you don't dislodge biofilms from your plumbing every time it changes path/direction, as you would with an abrupt cycle.

The cycle planned is actually 5 hours on, 1 hour off. The outlets for the sump return will be designed to allow for drainback of the water to the sump, so there will be no water remaining in the plumbing lines. There will be air coming back through the lines, but given the closed top of the aquarium, the lights will not be affected. I'm not sure what the effect will be from any biofilm being dislodged on a regular basis from the plumbing.


I'm leery of turning pumps on and off on frequent cycles, especially pumps that are not magnetically coupled such as the Sequence line. I find with these pumps, particularly as sump returns, perform and sound differently as the impeller settles in varying positions. If you set it and forget it, these pumps are reliable. Pumps with a soft on/off are another story.

The effect of the on/off cycles are a concern of mine with the Dart pump and I am open to changing to a different pump for that application.

Are you using the check valve as an air intake or to physically stop water flow (back siphon)? Is it a swing, ball or wye style check valve?

Again, I will not be using a check valve. The back siphon will be allowed to happen.


I'm not sure if you will achieve your tidal sequence if you are just using one pump to go through the cycle.

My original post to Oceans Motions was to see if they could come up with a design that could accomplish just that. Paul at OM thinks he has a non-solenoid controlled design, and I am waiting to hear back on the final results:smile:

[MitchM]

The lids will raise the tank temp at least 5˚F. They will limit gas exchange slightly, but it isn't a major concern. You will get condensation and salt creep/spray and the lids will become cloudy further diffusing light. If you are using metal halide lighting, the lids will warp considerably. Flipping them weekly helps keep them straight.

The lids are Lexan, so I am not expecting much, if any warpage.

[mr.wilson]

Lol not recommending a pair of Abyzz with a controller just yet Mr. W? It's certainly not a cheap option.

That's how I'd do it. You could run them 100,10... 10,100 so the lines don't go stagnant.

Trouble maker! :)

Yes, I would use two Abyzz 420 pumps with a controller and call it a day ($4,800.00). You would do fine with two Abyzz 200s or even one if you tune it right. A couple $25 Eductors make it even more fun :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFGASFHEWL8

[MitchM]

Sorry, I don't care for the short mechanical wave action and I'm aiming for a more sustained water velocity of 15cm/sec in the mid and lower zones.

[mr.wilson]

The wave video is just a gimmick to show the possibilities. I don't care for the waves either. You can use two pumps on the controller as a closed loop, return pump or drop them right in the tank. You can run them at 5% to keep water moving through the pipe and at the opposing end, run one at 100% for your five hour tidal flow.

[mr.wilson]

Paul's adaptation of his Revolutions product to an inline solution for you is nothing short of pure genius. His best ideas are inspired from specialized requirements like yours.

Lexan will still warp. I have used lots of these lids over the years.

Remember those are the Seaswirl flow limits, not the limits of the Dart to push water through a Seaswirl.

I did a 600 gallon acrylic tank (96x30x48) a few years ago, using two darts on 2 OM 4ways, with a Blueline 100 return pump. Flow was excellent. Use an online head loss calculator to make sue you are getting the best out of your system.

Use threaded parts where you can so it is easier to adapt to change.

[Skimmerking]

Paul's adaptation of his Revolutions product to an inline solution for you is nothing short of pure genius. His best ideas are inspired from specialized requirements like yours.

Lexan will still warp. I have used lots of these lids over the years.

Remember those are the Seaswirl flow limits, not the limits of the Dart to push water through a Seaswirl.

I did a 600 gallon acrylic tank (96x30x48) a few years ago, using two darts on 2 OM 4ways, with a Blueline 100 return pump. Flow was excellent. Use an online head loss calculator to make sue you are getting the best out of your system.

Use threaded parts where you can so it is easier to adapt to change.
did you have that motorized valve on there

[mr.wilson]

did you have that motorized vlave on there

Huh? I had two Oceans Motion 4-ways. The two Darts worked, but since then I have switched to higher pressure pumps like Iwaki an Abyzz DC brushless if the budget can fit them.

I found that a Blueline 70, rated at 1750 GPH moves more water than a Dart with a potential of 3600 GPH, if you have significant friction loss and 1" PVC.

I also like the idea of a magnet coupled pump. Sequence are the best of the direct drive pumps, but even with silicon carbide seals, they can leak or cavitate after a few years of use.

Here is a picture of the 600 gallon tank showing most of the plumbing. There are two intakes with two strainers on each. Since then I have switched to the same Banjo strainers Mitch is using. The intakes are set up to draw incoming water from the opposing ends of the aquarium, so the left intake returns to the right and vice versa. There are six closed loop returns on the bottom in spiral upwards 45˚ angles. There are four more closed loop returns for a total of ten on the two OM 4-ways (two at the bottom of the end across from the end overflow, and one beside the overflow at the top, and one at the bottom beside the overflow.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af109/reefandrainforest/IMG_6050.jpg

There are two closed loop ports to the left of the end overflow (top & bottom).

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af109/reefandrainforest/IMG_6047.jpg

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af109/reefandrainforest/IMG_6054.jpg

This is the end without the overflow. The two top ports are for the sump return (Blueline 100) and the two bottom are part of the closed loop. Water exiting here is drawn from the intake at the other end of the tank for additional mixing. The end to end flow across the top assures that there are absolutely no dead spots on the surface. A good test of your system is to add some flake food and see if it either sinks or gets skimmed within 30 seconds. If it gets stuck along the edges, you need to fine tune your plumbing.

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af109/reefandrainforest/IMG_6043.jpg

My needs were unique with this tank because it is 4' deep/high and as such there is a greater need for moving water to the surface air/water interface for oxygenation.

You learn with every tank. It's one of the rewards of the hobby.

[MitchM]

As I'm not certain as to the success of my proposed setup, I think I'll see how the Dart pumps do before I start saving my pennies for $2000+ pumps.:smile:

I realize that the Seaswirl setup is limited by the Seaswirls, not the pump.

My biggest challenge is going to be adequately feeding whatever I keep in the tank for corals. Hopefully I can identify some zones where food will accumulate out of the circulation pattern.

Thanks.

[mr.wilson]

Don't let me talk you out of your Superdart pumps. They will serve you well for a closed loop system. They just need large plumbing and short runs without nozzle restrictions.

Take an extra day or two to play around with the plumbing before you ad salt & rocks. You will quickly see how they perform with the Seaswirls. You will also see how much force you get out of one lone sump return, alternating sides. You have to strike a balance between flow that reaches the opposite end of the tank without blowing the paint off of the corals on the way there :)

Your sump return line will need some nozzles to diffuse the flow. I would aim for a maximum of 1,000 GPH out of any one return port, but that's just my personal preference.

[MitchM]

I was thinking of 2" sump return lines with no nozzles and a gate valve to control the return flow.
How do you think the Dart would handle that?
The returns would be pointed along the back wall facing each other on opposite ends. No corals would be placed in the direct flow.

[golf nut]

Sorry, I don't care for the short mechanical wave action and I'm aiming for a more sustained water velocity of 15cm/sec in the mid and lower zones.

I agree 100% it wasn't designed to do that, just to show how using inlets and outlets correctly can greatly increase the flow potential, and to show that you do not need a dirty great big box in the tank to get far more movement than a wave box could ever achieve.

[MitchM]

I agree 100% it wasn't designed to do that, just to show how using inlets and outlets correctly can greatly increase the flow potential, and to show that you do not need a dirty great big box in the tank to get far more movement than a wave box could ever achieve.

Plus the point that already having a Profilux the last thing I want to add is another controller.:wink:
They sound like great pumps.
I wonder if a Profilux could accomplish the same timing for someone that would want that type of water movement?

[Red Coral Aquariums]

Hi Kevin,

The holes in the top are 2 1/4", the holes in the back are 2 1/2".

That's a good point about the heaters. I wonder how much heat the tank would lose? I heard that acrylic had some insulating properties, plus I'll also be using lids on the tank.
I'm not too concerned about the temporary loss of filtering at this point. I don't want a heavily stocked tank. The tank feedings could occur near the end of the rest cycle.

If I went with your last setup suggestion, I would still need to drill a couple of holes for the sump return, wouldn't I?

As stated before the reeflo dart golds are great pumps (from customer and my personal viewpoint) but I have never had any experience with starting and stopping them on a daily or hourly basis (really not recommended) . I would though recommend your return from your sump to be a constant. You should not need any more holes drilled to accomplish your required tasks. Mitch it looks like you have some options on your 5/1/5 flow pattern which is great.

Kevin

[mr.wilson]

The Profilux can control a wide variety of pumps including the Abyzz. The Abyzz controller has pump temp, RPM, water sensor, and wattage draw which you can't get with aquarium controllers. Whether you need these features or not is another matter :)

Make sure if you have a variable water level in your sump that your skimmer isn't adversely affected. You can have it shut off on the same timer, if you go that route.

[lastlight]

The Profilux can control a wide variety of pumps including the Abyzz.

Oh I didn't know that. So you can buy these pumps without controllers. Also nice to know.

[mr.wilson]

Oh I didn't know that. So you can buy these pumps without controllers. Also nice to know.

The pump comes with a power supply with alarms for power or water shortage. There is a rheostat to manually set the pump output/RPM.

The cool thing about brushless DC pumps is they use less energy at lower RPMs. When you turn the 420 watt pump down to 65% capacity, it only uses 94 watts. A cycle of 35% for 10 seconds and a pulse of 65% for 2 seconds uses much less energy and gives the same net flow (without waves).

I tested a DC pump out of The Netherlands recently. It;s half the price and almost half the electricity, but the magnet on the pump stated to show rust pitting after three months use.

There are a few companies working on brushless DC pumps. Wait 6-12 months and you will see them replacing Iwaki and Sequence etc. For now, the price puts them out of reach for most.

[DiverDude]

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af109/reefandrainforest/IMG_6050.jpg



I like the faux rock ! I would mind doing something like that to the back wall of my next tank. Can anyone tell me what this is called and point me at a DIY thread ???

[mr.wilson]

There are lots of threads on aragocrete, spray foam, and epoxy faux rock.

http://reefcentral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1300282

[MitchM]

Thanks, everyone.
With regards to the actual building progress, my work has taken up pretty much 100% of my building time for the past month.
I think I can get the stand built this coming weekend, but I'm not sure if I will get the actual tank on the stand.
I'm looking forward to designing the back wall that is going to accommodate the mechanical support system.

[mr.wilson]

Hi Tony,

I'm following Ron Shimek's guidelines as best I can that I found here:

http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

Particle size distribution:

0.1-0.5 mm = 80%
0.1-0.75 mm = 15%
1.2-1.7 mm = 4%
1.7-2.5 mm = 1%

Here's a link to his discussion about it:

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic70539-11-1.aspx?Highlight=dsb+0.1

I am trying for a 4" or better depth.

Mitch

Ron Shimek's sand formula is a good one, but it leaves out one important factor... scratching acrylic. I use Special grade with some extra shells and coarse sand mixed in. This way you are less likely to stir it up and get it stuck in cleaning magnets and it won't scratch the bottom of the viewing panels as much when you use a plastic scraper.

[MitchM]

This is my first acrylic tank, so I need to learn a number of techniques and maintenance schedules that I'm not used to. The special grade is actually too large for keeping a number of different organisms that I would like.

[MitchM]

....

I like your idea of placing coral where the food appears to be. It is going to test your patience to wait that long to add corals!

The longer I think about it, the less I want to put in this tank. I want to be sure that whatever I put in there, I want to be able to feed enough.
I'm in no rush to stock it.

[MitchM]

I got the basic stand frame done today. I still want to put two joists with hangers in the middle, but LVL's need special hangers and nails. I would like to find someone in Calgary that stocks them. Home Depot wants 10 - 14 days to order them in.

I used 1-3/4 X 9-1/2 LVL for the beams (doubled up front and back) and 6 x 6 treated dimensional lumber for the legs. I'll be moving the tank into place using an engine hoist, so I needed clear floor under the stand to allow for the hoist wheels. With the strength of the beams, I won't need any other support underneath, but I may still frame up a wall under the back and sides then sheet it with plywood to prevent racking of the stand once the tank is loaded with water and rocks.
Alternatively, I could put in some knee braces to give it a timberframe look.

I like using engineered lumber for stands because it's simple, beefy and straight.


http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3681.jpg


http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3684.jpg


I used this laser level to level things:


http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3687.jpg




http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3686.jpg

[lastlight]

Wow that's one simply way to do legs! Although I doubt I have the skills to cut posts like that myself.

Does Rona/Home Depot sell those LVLs right in the store? Good idea!

[MitchM]

:smile:
With a pencil lay out the area to be removed.
Tools required to cut the posts are:
circular saw
reciprocating saw

Use a chisel and block plane to clean up the cuts. It takes about 10 minutes per post.

Rona or HD doesn't stock the LVL's. Go to the contractor desk and order them. I think they'll round up the size to the nearest 6" and give you about 1/2" extra length to square off each end. There are a lot of different sizes available.

[lastlight]

Well it's been a month. What's up?

[MitchM]

Got it on the stand, started on plumbing and it's filling with water. I had to stop the water fill until I'm back home for that.
Work has been crazy busy.
I've got some pics to post this weekend.:smile:

[MitchM]

I got the hangers and special nails for the center joists and got those mounted:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3689.jpg

put down some plywood and got the tank on the stand.
Here is a pic of the intake portion of the closed loop completed:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3694.jpg

Here I've started the framing for the workbench behind the tank with the closed loop pump roughly in place:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3696.jpg

I've started the filling of the tank with R/O DI. One thing that I'm not happy with is that the DI cartridge is already 80% exhausted and the tank is only 25% full so far.

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/IMG_3695.jpg

The RO unit is a 300 GPD from BRS. The RO unit itself is giving an output value of between 2 and 5 TDS.

I'm stalled a bit for setting up the sump at this point because I don't have a setup finalized for the sump return plumbing. I could set up two pumps and control the bidirectional flow pattern with my Profilux, but I've been in contact with Reeflo and they tell me that the constant on/off cycles would shorten the life of the capacitors and do no damage to the motor itself.
They have also told me that if my valving setup involves a total shut off of the output for any length of time that it would also not damage the pump. It would just result in a transfer of heat to the water trapped in the impeller chamber.

Another option that I came up with is that instead of the pump turning off for the rest cycle, the water could just be diverted back into the sump tank for the hour. That way the pump would run continuously and the sump would get a bit of a "super rinse" cycle.
Perhaps an existing OM unit could be modified with some timers instead of inventing a new setup.

The cycle would then be:

5 hours through output #1
1 hour sump recirculation
5 hours through output #2
1 hour sump recirculation

repeat.

Maybe that's something I can do myself. I haven't had time to sit down and think it through.

[MitchM]

Well I'm on my third time filling the aquarium now.
About 1/2 full one of the bulkheads started dripping so I drained it and filed down some imperfections in the mould for the bulkheads because I thought that that might be the cause. It wasn't.
Drained it again and thought the problem could be from the way the manufacturer gave me a blue background on the tank.
What they did was take a 1/4" blue acrylic panel and glue it inside to the 1" clear back panel. It's hard to tell, but the water must have found a pathway between the two panels and made it's way to the threaded portion of the bulkhead, bypassing the rubber seal and leaking out the threads.
I took some methylene chloride (solvent for the acrylic) and applied it between the two panels, then clamped it together with the bulkhead.
The tank is about halfway full again and the bulkhead is remaining leak free.
We have low water pressure here - between 40 and 60 psi with an incoming water temp of about 10c, so the 300 gpd RO unit is only producing about 60 gpd.
When I needed to drain the tank I only have a spare 180 gallon old aquarium to transfer the water to, so the rest has to go down the drain.
Not the end of the world, but a little frustrating and time consuming.
Guess that what leak tests are for.

[MitchM]

Water's in, plumbing's leak free, salt's in, sand's in.:smile:
I'm expecting the cloudiness to take a week to settle down.
I need to order some loc-line or something similar to drop the outlets of the Seaswirls about 1-1/2" because they are causing too much turbulence and noise at the top.
The closed loop is running fine, but I had to shorten the lower part of the workbench because I decided to use for a sump an old 180g aquarium I had instead of selling it and buying a plastic replacement. 4' of the sump will be tucked under the aquarium to save on space a bit.
Because I'm now using a glass sump, it's not as easy to drill and experiment with different hookups.
I don't have a final valving configuration for the bidirectional tidal flow yet. Hopefully that will be figured out soon, otherwise I'll be going with two separate pumps.
I would like to get the sump drilled and finalized next weekend.

...and here's a couple of pics:

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/DSCN1309.jpg

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/DSCN1308.jpg

[Delphinus]

Looks great Mitch! Bet you can't wait to see "stuff" in there.. :)

Like how you've mounted the seaswirls. One nice thing about these larger tanks is the increased elbow room. I thought my 280g was big until I started getting stuff mounted on the light rack. I want an auto feeder up there somewhere but I haven't figured out where I'll be able to shoehorn it in. I don't imagine you're going to run into a lot of the same issues. :)

[MitchM]

Thanks, Tony.
Actually, up to this point I have had a thought in the back of my mind saying to me - what kind of a make work project have you gotten yourself into this time?..:lol:

Not until I saw the sand in it today have I really become excited about it!
Now I want to stay home from work and just keep working on it.:mrgreen:
Not an option, I'm afraid!

I see they now have come out with 1-1/2" seaswirls. I might upgrade to a couple of those in the future. We'll see how these do.

[MitchM]

I have an auto-feeder planned too.
The top brace on the tank is 8" wide, so I had lots of room for it to sit.
It's going next to the front left sea swirl.
It comes with a tube that extends down below the surface of the water so it stops the food from going down the overflow.

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww250/mortimem/DSCN1312.jpg

[Delphinus]

What is the output nozzle like on the seaswirls? I've been wanting to replace the outputs on my wavysea's with locline too but I think I'd have to switch the output from stock to 1" PVC elbow with a bushing to mount the locline and I kind of worry how bad that would look. Plus when I tried hanging Tunzes off them initially with a DIY bracket, I found that 1" PVC was just ever so slightly too large for a snug fit. I don't know if it's a metric size or what but it's not a standard 1" PVC coupling size for the output apparently.

[MitchM]

It looks like it's a 1" male threaded to barb adapter.
Is your threaded or slip?

[lastlight]

Glad to see the tank brought online in some form that thing's a beast!

[Skimmerking]

looking good Mitch what is the tank mainly going to be .

[lastlight]

looking good Mitch what is the tank mainly going to be .

Awesome. Most likely lol.

[Delphinus]

Slip, sort of. It's grooved to hold an o-ring. When I was playing around with the DIY mounts I tried larger o-rings to see if that could make it snug but it was either too big or too small, never "just right".

Threaded makes a lot of sense!!! Score one for Seaswirls in that case.

One of mine stopped working so I've taken it off and was going to crack it open to see if I could fix it, if that works out maybe I'll swap the pipe for for a threaded fitting (I have no idea how feasible the idea is, never looked inside a Wavysea before).

It looks like it's a 1" male threaded to barb adapter.
Is your threaded or slip?

[MitchM]

looking good Mitch what is the tank mainly going to be .

Thanks.

SPS in the top zone for sure.
I'm working on getting the sand bed set so that it can be as friendly as possible for a functioning DSB. I've learned that there are some animals in the sandbed that do not like living by large objects, like our aquarium walls or rocks. I can't do anything about the walls of the aquarium, but what I can do is suspend the rock structure above the sand floor. How I'm going to do that is still undecided. I could drill out some pieces of large PVC or I could drill some acrylic legs into the bottom rocks. On top of those bottom rocks I'll drill and peg or epoxy the rest of the rock.
I'm also kind of interested in what will happen with all the crud that the live rock sheds, like when you "cook" a tub of live rock. I'm interested in what will happen to that detritus as it falls to the sandbed.
I'm going to be ordering some detrivore kits from Indiana and Hawaii once the weather warms up in a few months. Before then I don't think they would survive the shipping process.
By then the sand bed will have matured so that those organisms can survive when I get them.

Once I have the rock in place, I'll try to determine where food in the water column is going to accumulate and I'll start placing larger polyp corals in those areas. I'm going to try various plankton and live brine shrimp.
I'm interested to see what happens when I get that bidirectional flow going.
Maybe build some caverns that will channel the water somehow.

If I can find some locally, i'm going to be starting the tank on ProdiBio this coming week.

[MitchM]

In the Summer 2010 issue of the magazine Invertebrate Biology, there is an article - Effect of a fluctuating thermal regime on adult and larval reef corals, where the authors study the effects of a daily temperature fluctuation between 21 and 28 degrees celsius (70 - 82 fahrenheit).
They set up a number of 10g tanks where they controlled the temperature using a Neptune controller, heaters and chillers. The temperatures were forced up or down according to the natural temperature fluctuations at Nanwan Bay, Taiwan.
They found that the varying temperature environment made for corals that were stronger and more likely to survive incidences of high heat situations.
I wonder if that isn't the next step in advancing our keeping of corals; trying to even more closely replicate the environment where they originate? How may years ago was it that SPS were deemed impossible to keep?
I think we've got the "survivable" parameters down pat, I would like to see a lot more incidences of coral spawning reported and a lot less reports of "mysterious" coral deaths.

My analogy of how we keep corals now with rock solid steady parameters is like growing a tree in a nice, climate controlled greenhouse. The tree does fine while all parameters are steady and even, but bring along the slightest breeze or other environmental fluctuation and the tree can't take the stress.
Meanwhile, the same species of tree growing outdoors in the wind, rain, heat and cold does just fine.

I'm trying to come up with a way to incorporate this into my system.

The article is from my paid subscription, so I don't think I should post it here, but if someone would like me to shoot them a PDF, let me know.

[abcha0s]

Hi Mitch

Interesting posts! - I've been working through some of the same challenges. There are some notes on how I suspended my rock for my new tank in my build thread (post 31). For my 90G I used the large PVC idea and it worked well enough. I have some good pictures of the setup process if you would like to see them.


I'm going to be ordering some detrivore kits from Indiana and Hawaii once the weather warms up in a few months. Before then I don't think they would survive the shipping process.


I am very interested in this as well. From what I could tell, ipsf.com doesn't ship to Canada. It's in their fine print:

"Sorry, we do not ship outside the mainland USA or to any international destination."

Inland Aquatics has shipped to Canada in the past, but it might be a question of what day of the week you call? I think it's far from a sure thing.

Who is in Indiana?

- Brad

[MitchM]

Hi Brad,

Neither Inland Aquatics nor Indo-Pacific will ship to Canada, but they will ship to an address in Sweetgrass, Montana. I can drive down there to pick up the shipment and an LFS here has offered to help me through the permit process.

I'm not expecting many of the actual worms to survive the trip (although I'm told they do) but I am looking to get a fair bit of larvae and eggs in the "mud" I receive.
It's a 4 hour drive from my place, so I'm holding off until the weather is a bit warmer.

[MitchM]

Where have you got those PVC pictures, Brad?

edit...(Got your PM, thanks)

[MitchM]

The tank is in a bit of an extended cycle and maturing period.
We came up against some unexpected vet bills for one of our dogs, so the funds got depleted a bit.

In the meantime I have taken some of the live rock I already have (about 250 lbs) and placed it in the tank with a couple of large LPS corals, a favia and a few euphyllias. I haven't suspended this rock above the sandbed, I am waiting to purchase some larger dry flat ecorocks so I can drill them, give them some legs and use them for the base pieces.
I have the bidirectional tidal flow working with the Profilux controlling 2 separate Dart pumps. It's working well and I'm able to play around with the rock placement and watch how it changes the water flow. I've been able to create areas where the water flow will shoot through a channel quite fast and areas where the water will swirl and food particles can accumulate. Those swirling areas are where I will probably place some larger polyp corals.
The only drawback with the 2 separate pumps is the gurgling when about 40 or 50 gallons of water drain back into the sump.
Oceans Motions is close to finalizing a 4 way set up for me and I am expecting the drain back to be much slower and less volume.
Other than that the whole system is really quiet and the herbie drain setup is working well.

I had bought 2 new 300w titanium heaters that turned out to be defective, one of them the top came right off, flipping a breaker in the night and exposing the copper wires inside to the tank water.
The favia is not doing too bad from the brief electric shock plus copper exposure but the euphyllias are still recovering. They're bleached and retracted.
I guess I'm lucky it didn't fry one of the $250 Profilux powerbars.
I've replaced those heaters with a couple of 500w Jalli titanium heaters.

With the tank covers on, and the sump covered except for a 2' x 2' open top portion, the tank is only evaporating about 2 - 3 cups/day. Pretty happy with that.

The tank's not looking too clean these days, going through the startup diatom and algae blooms. I've gone through 2 Prodibio dosing cycles, not sure if it's making much of a difference yet.
The sandbed is really looking scarce for any life migrating down from the live rock, but this rock did come from basically a FOWLR (with some corals) bare bottom setup, so I didn't really expect a lot of sandbed animals.
I'm looking forward to getting some mud from some suppliers.

[Delphinus]

Would be interested in seeing videos of the flow if you can somehow arrange for that ? I realize video of water moving is probably not the easiest thing to capture since water is all transparentish and stuff.

[golf nut]

water is all transparentish and stuff.


Can I use this quote:)

[MitchM]

Would be interested in seeing videos of the flow if you can somehow arrange for that ? I realize video of water moving is probably not the easiest thing to capture since water is all transparentish and stuff.


When the cycle comes out of it's rest period, there are a lot of air bubbles that get pushed around, but other than that I can only spot the odd few particles and follow their path.
Maybe once I start feeding the tank more I can capture the action in a few specific areas.

[MitchM]

After 1 year of letting the sandbed mature and another year of unsuccessfully getting a reliable supply of sandbed critters, I'm changing direction and going with the Zeovit method.

I've removed the sand, changed over the dart pumps to Speedwave.
I bought a few Mitras but wasn't completely happy with the spread. I would probably have to go with 6 units to cover the tank properly.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6211


As luck would have it, the old Aquamedic fixture over my freshwater Amazon tank burnt up (literally) so I put 2 of the Mitras over that.

I purchased 2 4' ATI LED/T5 powermodules and got them up and lit this past weekend. I also purchased 100 lbs of fresh live rock that you can see in the tank now and I'm treating my old 400 lbs of live rock to a bleach then acid water bath over the next few weeks. The old live rock is probably about 15 years old now and full of junk.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6210

[Delphinus]

The spread is definitely better with the ATI's! Although, I have to say I'm impressed if you thought that only 6 Mitras would have worked over a tank with these dimensions. That's no small feat to get coverage of that magnitude..

15 year old rock! :lol: I tip my hat to you, sir.

But seriously? Hurry up and put some reef into this tank! :lol:

[kien]

1. Holy crap that's a lot of sand!
2. I love the simplicity of your new aqua scape. I would be tempted to leave it as is, add some fish and call it a day :-)
3. See #1 above.

[MitchM]

Tony, what's the rush? :lol:

Thanks kien, it almost took me a full 20 minutes to design that.:smile:

The spread does look good on those ATI's. - and yes, 6 Mitras may have not been enough - another reason I went for the ATI's

[MitchM]

In the sump I'm replacing my electric heaters with a coil of PEX that will be heated with a hot water recirc loop controlled with the Profilux.
There are plastic PEX fittings available for corrosive environments.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6212

[Delphinus]

Interesting ... where would the water for the loop get heated?

[MitchM]

I tap into the hot water tank and run domestic water through it.
A 25W recirculation pump pulls hot water in a loop from the hot water outlet pipe and returns it to the cold water inlet pipe on the hot water tank.

So the heat comes from the normal operation of the hot water tank.

[ensquire]

What material are the pex rings made of ???

[MitchM]

Stainless steel

[MitchM]

I've learned that there's a different system available that uses plastic crimp rings - Propex.
I'm looking into that to see where it's available.

[DiverDude]

Other than the cost of buying a conventional heater (if you didn't already have one) and the (remote) possibility of the heater breaking, what's the advantage to doing it this way ?

Seems a bit of "Six of one, half dozen of the other"

[MitchM]

The primary benefit is using less electricity.

For a water volume of around 700 gallons, I would need probably 600 - 800 watts of electric heat. I've read articles that suggest heaters should be replaced every couple of years.

We also have a hot water solar system that sometimes produces excess heat, so it makes sense to dump the excess heat somewhere useful.

And...

-Saves space on the Profilux power bar
-Don't need to run as many electrical circuits


It may not make sense for smaller tanks, but I think it's a great idea for larger ones.

[The Codfather]

Mitch,
Look into these fittings. All plastic, very reliable.
The system is called quick and easy by uponor.
By far one of the best plastic systems.
If you need any info lmk.
Thanks,
Bob

[MitchM]

Thanks Bob

[The Codfather]

If you need or want, lmk, I'll mail you what you need.
If you need the tools, I'm sure we can figure something out as I could mail it out as well.

[MitchM]

Thanks Bob. Very generous offer.
I'll try a couple of places in Calgary this week. If they won't sell retail or something, I'll send you a PM.

[lastlight]

Nice to see you publicly back at it. Do you currently have livestock anywhere or is a from scratch sort of deal at the moment?

[MitchM]

Thanks Brett.
I have moved what livestock I had into other tanks for now. A blue tang, rectangular trigger, sea hare, a number of corals, LPS and SPS.
The tang, trigger and sea hare won't be going back into the main display. The tang is at the size where he just picks ups frags and plays with them.
The sea hare likes burying himself in deep sand and there will be minimal sand in the new setup. With no hair algae, he is being fed a diet of spirulina tabs.
The corals will be going back into the main tank, after some pruning. I have a branching euphyllia with about 100 heads.

[MitchM]

Got the recirc pump mounted under the tank stand.



http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6226

[Alberta-newb]

Hi Mitch, exciting build!

I was wondering why you changed out the Dart pumps for SpeedWaves? I'm working on a build with 2 closed loops and still struggling with pump choices. I like the Dart gold pumps but was looking into the DC pumps as another option.

How do you like them so far and what was the motivation to swap out those expensive Darts?

Francis

[MitchM]

Hi Francis,

I really like the Speedwaves. I prefer submersible pumps because I like to have things effecient where I can.

Speedwave pros for me:
-lower electricity usage
-submersible means that the heat that is generated is transferred to the aquarium water
-simpler plumbing hookup (barbed connections for flexible hose that's contained in the sump so if there's a leak it stays within the system)
-soft start, so when the pumps start up in the middle of the night there's no splashing noise

Dart cons:
-higher electricity usage
-external, attracts dust with their cooling fins so exterior needs to be cleaned often
-more complicated hard plumbing, need to drill access holes in sump. Leaks are not contained within the system

I am using 1 Speedwave externally, because of how my closed loop is configured. No cooling fans on the Speedwave to attract dust.

I'm just going to clean the Darts and store them away. They work fine. They've been operating steady 5 hours on/6 hours off without a problem for a couple of years.

I've also changed my sump turnover rate to 1 X system volume/ hour. I'm going to increase the circulation only within the main display itself with powerheads and the closed loop. That saves some energy.
( that I can put into those T-5's, lol)

[MitchM]

I've had the recirc heating running for about an hour now.
Incoming water temp is 91.9 F, outgoing water temp is 77.9F
Present water temp is 75.6 F, so the aquarium water is taking almost all the heat that is being put through the coils. I didn't do any calculations to arrive at how many coils, just my best estimate. I put in 5 coils with a 20" diameter.
We'll see how long it takes to bring the 700 gallons up to the target temp of 79 F.

[riceboy]

Quick question are those copper fittings on the pump?

[MitchM]

Brass.

[MitchM]

Here is the hookup to the hot water tank:
Hot water exit is coming out of the top middle of the hot water tank. The red PEX pipe attached at the "T" fitting is leading to the recirc pump which pumps to the coils in the sump.
The cold water supply line to the hot water tank runs down the front of the tank out of the picture. The white PEX pipe at the "T" fitting is coming directly from the coils in the sump.
The loop follows: hot water tank -> red PEX -> recirc pump -> coils -> return line to the cold water supply -> water gets reheated and goes through the loop again as needed.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6227

[MitchM]

It took 5 hours to raise the temperature from 73F to 79F.
I'm happy with that.
The gas boiler didn't turn on today so that means that the heat came from solar.:smile:

[MitchM]

I've bleached 2 40g pails of LR and let them sit out in the sun and rain for a couple of weeks now.

Today was acid dip day. I have about 50 pieces of live rock to do.

I bought some nitrile gloves, muriatic acid from Canadian Tire and had some baking soda on hand in case I splashed something on myself.
I put 10 liters of water and 1 liter of acid in an old salt pail and had a rubbermaid container full of tap water for rinsing.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6254

It was actually a pretty tame procedure. The smaller rocks foamed a bit but didn't overflow the bucket. I left the rocks in the acid dip for 3 minutes each. I tried to put in about the same mass of rocks each time. I did about 10 batches per bucket of acid dip then I dumped it out and started with a new batch.
After 10 batches, the foaming was minimal so the PH had risen quite a bit and the solution was close to neutral.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6255

For the larger rocks, 11 liters didn't cover them, so I did them at the end. I just added additional 10 liters of water plus 1 liter of acid. That covered the rocks, but also overflowed the bucket.
Definitely an outside project!

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6256

Tomorrow I hope to start drilling and stacking the live rock with some acrylic rods.
Gotta get this show on the road.

[MitchM]

I got the tools ready for tomorrow and tried out a test piece. It worked pretty well. I'll put an old towel in between the rock and the workbench so the rock doesn't get vibration from both sides and break apart.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6257

[MitchM]

This is how far I got today. The lights are a little bit askew because I had to lie right on top of the tank to adjust the rock.
It looks like the ATI's won't be sufficient to provide light to the whole tank. I'll probably end up putting my 3 Mitras along the front and moving the ATI's back a bit.
I've ordered a PAR meter that will hopefully be here in a week or so.
(The iphone pics make it look a lot bluer than it is. I have a Nikon D70, but only with a 105mm macro lens.)

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6260

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6261

I started out thinking I would be using a lot more rock, but the more I thought about it, the less I wanted a wall or pile that created a lot of detritus traps that I knew I wouldn't be happy with.

I kept thinking of CingChai"s setup and thought I would set it up similar. I like the idea of corals being viewed from a couple different sides, not necessarily the front only.
My tank doesn't have the height that his does, my tank is only 30" tall, so I decided to make a few more columns instead. I also want to leave as much room as possible for corals to grow until I need to prune them.

There's a couple of new little rocks in the lower front that I saw had some life on them (maybe some corals that survived the trip), I left them in there with the lights to see what becomes of them.

To help with the stability of the columns, I made some 1 1/2" high feet out of 4" PVC. This will also help prevent detritus from accumulating directly underneath the rocks.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6258

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6259

I may still add some arches reaching from column to column, I'll leave this for a while and see.
There are2 MP60's on the far end of the tank, synced together, but unfortunately they can't be directed anywhere other than perpendicular to the tank wall they are mounted on. I'll probably add a couple of Tunze 6255's in the future.
There will be some sand at the bottom, very little. Maybe some Caribsea pink, coarse.

Of course any criticisms or suggestions are welcome!:smile:

There's a LOT of rock left over!:lol:

[MitchM]

For the last 3 weeks I have been waiting out what I thought was a bacterial bloom, except bacterial blooms only last around 3 - 4 days.
If it is algae, I thought my 200 micron filter sock would have picked it up.
I stopped any further Zeo dosing or adding more rock and I started up a diatom filter today to see how that works out.
Over the last couple of weeks the cloudiness hasn't gotten any better and hasn't gotten worse than what it is here.

My Tunze 6255's came in so I added those.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/picture.php?albumid=855&pictureid=6408

[MitchM]

My cloudy bacterial problem is just now clearing up. I couldn't see 6 inches into the tank for most of the last 2 months.
I would try one thing, wait a few days/weeks, try another thing, wait a few days/weeks....
What finally worked was changing out all the filters in my RO/DI unit, after I noticed I was having ongoing cyanobacteria problems in my freshwater tank which also gets the RO/DI water.

I want the last 2 months of my life back, lol.

[Skimmerking]

good to have you back Mitch. PS my Mitras light is working flawless now after the update.

[MitchM]

Thanks Mike, good to hear about the Mitras.

[Delphinus]

Wow that was the RO/DI filters?? An exercise in patience for sure. Good to hear it's clearing up...

[MitchM]

It doesn't make any sense to me either Tony, but I was getting huge algae blooms in my freshwater tank the day after a big water change there. I thought that maybe my fertilizer dosing wasn't right or something.
The RO unit was what the two tanks had in common.

[MitchM]

Starting to add some inhabitants.
Snowflake clowns and ritteri anemone.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7434/11538777624_86e214e305.jpg

There are others, but I'm still learning camera settings

[monza]

Mitch
That is quite the tank and a long road to where it is now, looking good! Interesting read for sure. Good luck with it. Looking forward to updates.

Dave

PS. Did you get wet during the floods? Looks like high ground and with a steep road I hope not?

[MitchM]

Thanks Dave.

We're at the top of a hill here, so no risk of flooding. However, with the streams and bridges around here, the possible 4 routes out of our location were reduced to 1 with last years flooding.
All back to normal now.

[MitchM]

Draining my 600g saltwater tank today.:cry:

I had an incident where a 50% water change was required (at least) and I just wasn't set up for it. It's not feasible for me to be ready for a water change of that size in the future, so I've moved all the surviving inhabitants to a smaller 180g where an emergency water change is possible.

- so a lesson to be learned is that it's all good and fine to have a large tank, but it's vulnerable to a wipeout if you can't intervene in an emergency.

I'm going to be using the 600g as a planted freshwater now. I have a 320g fw planted that is doing very well. I can do large water changes to that overnight, if required. 300g in 24 hours is possible with my R/O unit.

The incident happened a few weeks ago. My anenome, Heteractis magnifica, got drawn into a new MP60. I didn't put the protective foam on the powerhead because I was letting all the newly stirred detritus be filtered out via the filter sock. The anemone was on the other side of the tank so I thought it was secure for the time being.
I lost a few fish and corals by the next morning.
My mistake, obviously. I feel terrible about it.

Amazingly, the blue tang I've had for almost 15 years now survived, with the help of some medication. "Big Blue" as we've named him, is one tough fish.

The anemone has survived, with about 30% less tentacles, but is eating and looks much better.

Hopefully others can learn from my mistake.

[Delphinus]

I'm really sorry to hear this Mitch.

I kept that species myself for close to a decade (9 years? I think?). Over that time it was responsible for a number of tank wipeouts. The last time the emotional toll was too much so in a fit of weakness I decided to sell it. Unfortunately it never survived the transition into a new tank so I felt responsible and sad for that loss too. Every time I see this species somewhere I feel that loss all over again. They truly are magnificent but such a cost to keep.

There was a time I might have washed my mouth out with soap for saying these next words but ...... 600g would make one incredible planted few tank!!!

[MitchM]

Thanks Tony.
My wife is actually encouraging me to redo the saltwater tank, but like I said, if I can't properly intervene in an emergency, I don't want to do it.
The anenome was stuck in the powerhead for a few hours at least. I shut off the MP60 and let it be. It managed to crawl out and retreated to an upper dark corner of the tank, along with it's clownfish. It was brutal watching as the clownfish were able to swim in and out of the slits in the body of the anenome.

Still, the anemone has survived but the clownfish need to be kept away as I feed it. The clownfish will remove any food that the anemone tries to eat.

I found a 600g fw setup by a doctor over in India that looks to be successful:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=486449&highlight=600g

I have a lot to learn about fw water circulation and lighting though. I have my 2 4' ATI hybrids that are probably overkill for fw. Maybe just changing the bulbs and reducing the intensity will work.

We will see.:smile:

[Delphinus]

The solution is simple, really.

Bury one of these bad boys somewhere: http://www.rainharvest.com/norwesco-2500-gallon-above-ground-water-tank-102-wide.asp

Bam! 100% water change, whenever you like.

What's the frostline? It can't be more than 8 feet or so.

No need to thank me, I like to think of myself as a problem solver. :lol:

In all seriousness if there was anyone who could get away with a buried 2500 mixing tank somewhere, I would have guess that was you :)

Frankly I wish I could somehow get a buried 500g tank under my deck and be able to use it year-round. I totally empathize with the "want to intervene in an emergency". Well even without emergencies, there are times you just want to do a big/significant water change. I just changed out 50g out of my 65g FOWLR yesterday, you wouldn't believe how good it looks today. That same volume however is a "regular/weekly" waterchange for my 280g and when things aren't going right, it's really only a drop in the bucket. There are many times per year I find myself wistfully wishing I could changeout 150g-200g (or more) at a time, but I just simply don't know where I can put that much water to mix it up. So I do feel the pain of "sometimes a bigger tank isn't necessarily better" sentiment.

[MitchM]

:smile:

I actually put in a 6000g goldfish pond a couple of years ago, more for backup water supply in case of fire. It's all rainwater, so I guess that could work - in the summer, anyways.

Yep, nothing beats a really big water change every now and then.
A place and the containers to mix a lot of salt water is the issue.

[MitchM]

I picked up 14 pails of IO during boxing week sales.