wood air stone skimmers

[josie]

I wanted to know other canreef members who have old technologies wood air stone skimmer.

Yesterday we installed a 4' Marine Technical Concepts skimmer on our 150g SPS tank.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/airstoneskimmer.jpg

less then 12hours later it started to produce a little skim :)

Please post about yours :)

[bvlester]

a friend of mine uses one and he loves it works realy well also. His works better than some skimmers I have seen.
He is on her mike31154.

Bill

[mike31154]

Mmmmm, wooden air stone, yesss. Thanks for the referral Bill.

I have what I think is a DIY air driven skimmer that came with the used system I purchased when I got into the hobby. After a lot of research and a few of my own mods, I have the thing working very nicely and I love how quiet it is with a small AquaClear 301 powerhead pushing water and a larger air pump (thanks to Bill) making the bubbles through DIY wooden air diffuser. It's not as tall as yours Josie, at just around 2.5 ft.

I tried a Remora C Pro HOB with a mag 3 pump for a few months but all it did is make a lot of noise and very mild tea, nothing like the thick sludge I scrape out of the collection cup on the old air driven job. Thankfully I ended up cracking the thing while trying to lift it off for cleaning one day. This forced me to put the old school technolgy back into service and I haven't looked back.

What's really improved the performance of mine aside from the larger air pump is the DIY air diffuser. I purchased a plank of basswood from a local lumber supplier and started making my own using Gorilla Glue. In fact I'm in the process of building one today. The problem with the store bought wooden air diffusers is the circular hole drilled into a square/rectangular piece of wood. This shortens the life since there's only a small area for the bubbles to push through the wood (at the narrowest part). This area wears/clogs quickly and that's the end of it. My DIY diffuser is a box with flat panels, allowing a much larger surface area to produce bubbles. I have yet to see any other technology (read new) produce bubbles as fine as a newly installed wooden air diffuser. If not mistaken there are several suppliers out there supplying similar 'box' type wooden air diffusers, I even saw a patent out on one. No longer have the links though and they weren't cheap either. Another reason I started making my own is that none of my LFS here were regularly stocking wooden diffusers.

A future build with basement sump will definitely use a larger version of what I have now. A few pics follow.

This pic is a year or so old and features the much smaller air pump & two store bought diffusers on a manifold. It had just been cleaned too, so not much gunk in the top. With the new pump and DIY diffuser there's no way you can see thru the tube as in this photo, it's fully saturated with fine bubbles. It's HOB since I don't have a sump, but I actually have it sitting on its own little stand attached to the display stand. Didn't like having the thing hanging on the rim.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pEkeC0j7359CQIKKB6YdnbKKxcW6bJi7WLE2ZRRtqzjL8b5R imXMwi6l-oJeBv8LzklNX1qFfq4WWTk-W_bB-jw/P1010815c.JPG?psid=1

This is the AquaClear pump in the pre skimmer box with the return pipe in behind.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pDm4B7nMcuP5Qz9CA9J90atFH26p2pwGZcuBaL9M5UwRMyYy QAHf2s_Xfw-u8XukUN3VzE-WjkeWes8KAcDm8tw/P1030317a.JPG?psid=1

A closer shot of the collection cup (still the old air pump) showing a little more 'stuff'. I skim dry so the 2L pop bottle that collects liquid skimmate takes months to fill, but I regularly scrape some very thick sludge off the collection cup & upper reaction tube sides.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pm2AW_Rg6OZTWGvMlGdY676w2VTzhR-SwW_wQxsybRQ3qJDLAly6t4ybWkPn_wqpYpttmDWoEsBZg6GKI To6arg/P1010867b.JPG?psid=1

I might try to make a bubble diffuser plate too, but not quite sure how I'm going to fit that in with the rigid air tube going down and all. Could be a maintenance nightmare when it comes time to change the air diffuser and not sure of the benefit to effort ratio at this point. Another thing I'd like to try is use John Guest type fittings like we have on our RO systems to replace the current air tubing. They're watertight so they should be airtight and would make assembly/disassembly a lot easier.

[mike31154]

Here's a link to a site with info on DIY wooden air diffuser. It's what gave me the idea to try making my own. The procedure is a little different (more complex than mine) since it uses super glue to hold things together and once wet, you can't let the wood dry out. I just use hand tools (miter box) and Gorilla Glue which actually needs some water to set properly. I assembled my first one dry, except for wetting the area to be glued in accordance with Gorilla Glue instructions. It hasn't failed at any of the seams and is still in service, forget how many months. As mentioned in my previous post, I'm in the process of making another one now. I'll take some photos this time.

http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/kwairstone.htm

[josie]

Thanks mike!!
yes we are planning to do our own wood air stone ;) trying to check out where to get basswood around here... and see the price of it too...

I made a video today of our equipment set-up and you can see the new skimmer..it's less then 24hours skimming but we see it's working ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3MPUSCRfb8&feature=player_embedded

[Mrfish55]

I have a 6 foot air driven skimmer on the 750, works flawless, dead silent and produces about 2 litres of the nastiest skimmate you will encounter every 24 hours. Couple pics of when I first installed it, will try and get some updated pics later.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/Mrfish55/IMG_2349.jpg
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/Mrfish55/IMG_2308.jpg
about 12 hours worth when first installed, much darker, stank smelling now.
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr88/Mrfish55/IMG_2309.jpg

[mike31154]

Thanks mike!!
yes we are planning to do our own wood air stone ;) trying to check out where to get basswood around here... and see the price of it too...

I made a video today of our equipment set-up and you can see the new skimmer..it's less then 24hours skimming but we see it's working ;)



Wow, nice bubble column already, assuming with conventional air diffusers? A DIY air diffuser is going to make that thing explode! What kind/size air pump are you using to drive that puppy?

I don't know if you have a Lee Valley Tools outlet in Montreal, but I used to live in Ottawa and that's their headquarters. They do a lot of business online and mail order as well. I'm pretty sure they have basswood pieces. Limewood works as well of course, not sure, might even be the same wood just different names.

[mike31154]

I have a 6 foot air driven skimmer on the 750, works flawless, dead silent and produces about 2 litres of the nastiest skimmate you will encounter every 24 hours. Couple pics of when I first installed it, will try and get some updated pics later.

about 12 hours worth when first installed, much darker, stank smelling now.


That's a beaut MrFish, I'll be hitting you up for some pointers when I get my basement sump build off the ground. The sky's the limit in the basement, but I guess a 6 footer should be fine for the 120 I'm planning. Is it a DIY skimmer or commercially manufactured? Looking forward to additional photos and perhaps some details on air pump, water pump etc.

[Mrfish55]

That's a beaut MrFish, I'll be hitting you up for some pointers when I get my basement sump build off the ground. The sky's the limit in the basement, but I guess a 6 footer should be fine for the 120 I'm planning. Is it a DIY skimmer or commercially manufactured? Looking forward to additional photos and perhaps some details on air pump, water pump etc.

The skimmer was a custom order from Precision Marine, I bought it used with the 750gal tank, I am using a PS4 for the feed pump and a Hiblow air pump powers 4 1x6" airstones I make similar in design to what you do, I have never seen another skimmer produce such thick foam, usually have to empty the collector about 2 hours after feeding, pretty efficient and the water is crystal clear.

[josie]

the air pump is a O2 Max Air Pump, 65 Liters per minute (885 Gallons per Hour), 3.9 PSI...
bougt on ebay ;)

it suplies air to the skimmer, the koi pound and makes bubbles in the fresh and saltwater reserve... ;)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/airpump-1.jpg

[josie]

24 hours since it's started:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neof2aOTEJ8

:biggrin:

[mike31154]

Ha, ha, nice work. You guys are killing me. Go big or stay at home! You could be on Tim Taylor's home improvement show if it was still on. My little two and a half footer with 8 watt air pump and AquaClear 301 powerhead is not worthy...

[josie]

1 week of skimming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_teEDVLYgUc

[Mrfish55]

Nice dark nog, wait a couple weeks for that baby to really get going, I get that much in about 4 hours on the 750, waste collector gets emptied daily and the smell is horrible.

[josie]

we found the type of wood (lime-tree) in a lumber place and is really cheaper making them yourself...
We can make 12 air stone with a 4$ plank!!!!

[josie]

2 months since the skimmer is in action!

We really think it's working great!
our hait algae problems seems to end, the algae is dying and disolving!

The polyps extension is amazing!

I think this old technology is quit "soft" on the water... compare to using a needle wheel or other pomp that are hard on water...

[rayjay]

I don't know how I missed this thread when it came up but I make my own wooden airstones out of basswood. They are 2"X2"X7" with a 7/8" dia. bore.
I screw in a nylon fitting from TSC stores with a 3/8" barb for the air line which is supplied with some of the air from a Pondmaster AP100 linear compressor.
The main skimmer has a foot cube receptor at the top but the other four just have a cereal container for the receptor.
MY SKIMMER PAGE (http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/skimmer.html)

[mike31154]

Nice work there rayjay, I like your take on the collection cup, a little different than the conventional setup around the outside of the reaction chamber. Since you've resurrected this thread, it might be a good time to present a few photos of my DIY basswood air stones.

Here's my first attempt after being in use for many months (lost track but it was still working quite well). I put a rock inside before assembly to weigh it down.
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pBj8MscyiaK8zppXQGXgCpvfdudD8lM8vJTRn2_zFlh3MghT GU9PGdkgwTnsJSBnJSySmIdfz23eJBWSag2Bh7A/P1030542e.JPG?psid=1

Assembly of the new one, in service now. Since the basswood plank I have is relatively thin, I need to fuse two sections together for each of the four sides to get a good sized diffuser out of the deal
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pa_7bX8woruZIDeqCHEeCIKlI_fqjbzU9yXRpeqJ7sJGBpBz s39BDZIja5xpVBYak8xF5Sk0v3NQbap92VKvMbA/P1030449e.JPG?psid=1

As you can see here, I don't use precision tools, just a hand saw & miter box, so I don't always get an even cut. A bit of sanding takes care of that and it's really not that critical due to the large surface area you get from the box design
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pCsun_Z8rwDUbf3Nx4lezUwV79EKhZLZrybRmvmDJEbpXx0C ATPDO_RxLXdUAgT8alxPAetYWp9XbPyW2BCddtA/P1030450e.JPG?psid=1

And the new one, ready to go. Not quite as clunky at the top & bottom as my first effort and I used basswood for the ends, whereas with the first one I just used some pine I had laying around. I find there's a bit of a break in period with these DIY diffusers and they actually get better with age, to a point...
http://public.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pQEBXhRycDUaQgPXgSDz9n3u3eyHpRDFdspqrVPBdLcfKGE2 hQUHxGUFH5n0NpEtrwjF6c7IfjIMhPy6XcROOtw/P1030451e.JPG?psid=1

[rayjay]

My stones are solid.
I use a 7/8" boring bit with extension on it for depth. I ground a little off each side to make the hole just under the 7/8". Then I tap the top part using a piece of pipe with 7/8" OD thread, I think it's 3/4" pipe where I cut long narrow "v" groves along the length of the threading and then squeezed the ends together so now the threads have a slight taper but still have a gap.
I screwed the other end of the pipe into a "t" for the same dia. pipe and shove a large screwdriver through the "t" when using it as a tap for the hole in the basswood.
I use 3/8" nylon firm tubing inside the skimmer, fastened to the stone with 3/8" vinyl type air line, and the same vinyl air line from the top end of the skimmer to the linear compressor.
I tried to get mileage out of trimmings left over after making a batch of stones, gluing together like yours appears to be, but it came apart in only a few days. I guess I didn't use the right glue.

[josie]

2 months since the skimmer is in action!

We really think it's working great! I think this old technology is quit "soft" on the water... compare to using a needle wheel or other pomp that are hard on water...

our hait algae problems seems to end, the algae is dying and disolving!

The polyps extension is amazing!


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/stags.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/vert-1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/BNRs.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/digivert.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/choux.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/doigtvert.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/josee1013/150g/undatas-1.jpg



mike31154: what glue did you used?

[lastlight]

Wouldn't it be extremely cheap to DIY a monster air driven with some big ABS or pvc? Seems to me the biggest cost is the air compressor/bubbler?

[josie]

Wouldn't it be extremely cheap to DIY a monster air driven with some big ABS or pvc? Seems to me the biggest cost is the air compressor/bubbler?

yes! ;)
good skimmer dont have to cost 3000$! :biggrin:

[mike31154]

2 months since the skimmer is in action!

We really think it's working great! I think this old technology is quit "soft" on the water... compare to using a needle wheel or other pomp that are hard on water...

our hait algae problems seems to end, the algae is dying and disolving!

The polyps extension is amazing!


mike31154: what glue did you used?


Gorilla Glue

[KevinK]

ok so now as we know thy are great, how often do you replace the stones, or do you sand them off a bit for a nother few weeks.

only down side I would considder is the nois of the air pump.

I used a 40W comp. to feed my needel W. with air, as my skimmer is tall, and hate the sound.

gust ordered a laguna 2900 to build a mesh wheel, thy should handel the suction of air, so I loos the compressor.

however you never know in the future, so always interested to find out how long the w. stones last

[josie]

KevinK:

we change the stones every 3-4weeks...
we made our air stone (33cents each!)

for the air pump mine is really quiet (O2 Max Air Pump,885 Gallons per Hour)

[mike31154]

Check the first photo of my post #18 in this thread. That air diffuser was doing its thing for 6 months if not longer and still producing better bubbles than any brand new store bought wooden diffuser. As you can see, the wood grain is starting to open up quite a bit so sanding or anything else is not going to extend the life of one of these. When I was using the store bought diffusers, I once soaked and boiled a few of them in a vinegar solution in an effort to get more life out of them. The performance wasn't that great after that, but I was able to use them a little longer.

For my skimmer I don't need a piston air pump, the Rena Air 400 diaphragm pump is more than enough and along with the small AquaClear 301 powerhead, you can barely hear a thing. My lighting fans and VorTech pumps pretty much drown out the low hum produced by the Rena.

[rayjay]

I use the pondmaster linear compressor and they are extremely quite.
For my air stones, I use a pair for each skimmer and change them every 4 or 5 weeks, cleaning the removed one and drying it out and using it at the next change.
Two stones get me more than a year service.
The advantage of boring the centre hole is that you don't have to glue an assembly together.

[belzebuth]

Great thread. Tagging along

[gobytron]

none of these pics show what I would consider significant skimmate at all...

I respect a simple, cheaper alternative but I think its pretty clear these skimmers dont even seem to perform better than a coralife skimmer.

Not to knock whats working for you, but there is no way I would never put one of those on my reef...especially with how affordable a lot of the venturi, needlewheel and beckett skimmers have become lately.

I would potentially try one on a nano though...in fact, I think I may just make one this weekend and try it out.

[viperfish]

none of these pics show what I would consider significant skimmate at all...

I respect a simple, cheaper alternative but I think its pretty clear these skimmers dont even seem to perform better than a coralife skimmer.

Not to knock whats working for you, but there is no way I would never put one of those on my reef...especially with how affordable a lot of the venturi, needlewheel and beckett skimmers have become lately.

I would potentially try one on a nano though...in fact, I think I may just make one this weekend and try it out.

The amount of skimmate has nothing to do with it. The question you have to ask is does the skimmer pull out enough DOC's to keep nutrients low. I think it's evident, judging by the success of the tank that this skimmer is effective. I for one love to see these air driven skimmers in use, it gets back to the basics of foam fractionation and has some good old ingenuity thrown in to make it all work. If you're looking for effective skimming you don't have to don't have to buy a Bubble King or a Deltec, if you're looking for bragging right then that's another story.

[josie]

gobytron: it's the quality not the quantity of skims that's important...
Has I said before I really think this kind of skiming if "softer" on the water...

you can try little "nano" airstone skimmer but they are not comparable to the big ones... the surface of contact with the micro-bubles in here is the key to a good skimming efect...
my 2cents ;)

[mike31154]

It also depends a lot on the bioload of each individual system. At least we went to the trouble to qualify our experience with some photos. Commenting on the so called lack of skimmate produced by air diffuser skimmers without providing some pictures of new tech skimmers performance doesn't make for a useful contribution to this thread, particularly from someone whose signature block contains a comment about being under a hair algae attack. To be honest, I have some hair algae issues too, but I don't think it's due to my skimmer, it's more likely the unkown history of my used live rock and getting better with each water change.

[KevinK]

ok, so as I'm a DIY person myselve,

so the spec. of a skimmer for a large tank tells it is pulling 2000L of air in with its NW, ore VENT.

when I would push the same amount of air in with a air stone, I cant se whare all in a sudden, it is a bad skimmer.

I woulod like to se, lets say a RK2 skimmer that is drawing lots of air, preform, but than not drawing air, but pushing it.

the same for the BBK ore any other brand, why pull, and fractionating everything, where you can also push.

there are many articles about how damaging fractionating can be for the micro organisems in a tank.

overall, I would defenetly try a air stone skimmer.

when you do your homework, and pull all data from skimmers, it is easely to figger out what dimentions of skimmer work best for you, and use the air data, other brands produce, and put this same air in with the stones.

I beleave in it, air is air, and when you put in 2000L in ore 2000L, it is still the same.

give me specific data ore test resulds from one skimmer, where the air stone would be smashed by a NW and I'm convinced, for now, air is air, and I do beleave that fractionating is worst for a tank than air stones

[rayjay]

none of these pics show what I would consider significant skimmate at all...

This is not significant???
http://www.angelfire.com/ab/rayjay/skimspecial.jpg