Ethical kole tang dilemma

[Doug]

Story goes like this. I purchased a baby Kole about 8 yrs. ago. He lived in my 225 and then 180 cube. When I moved and down sized he went to live in Mikes 150g {or his 120g }before that. Recently he started to bother some of his acans so we had to remove him.

He resided temporary in my 35g cube, {28 by 16}. Not the best size for him by any means but seemed at home their with my 8yr. old percs. So being the old softy I am, bought him a 50g long, best I can do for my little room. Moved most of the stuff over but unfortunately I have a strong dislike for the tank.

Making some changes on the cube while its clean and my stock is going back in. So of course what to do with Mr. Kole. He has been with either myself or Mike since he was a baby.

Does one put him back in the cube and get called a number of names, even though the tang is only between 4 to 5 in. in length. Likely not. So what does one do. You cant take him to a store and the little guy ends up who knows where. Plus this is not exactly the reefing capital of this area and even if their were lots of homes why would one think he would be better off with who knows what that in a smaller tank but with an advanced aquarist that treats his pets, {all of them}, like family.

Basically screwed either way. :lol: I already know what I,m doing , but just figured it was a good discussion thread. :D

[Doug]

And just so you know my views. I have been an advocate for larger tanks for tangs and way back on another board, somewhat to much me thinks. However since then my opinion has mellowed somewhat and watching many different fish in a great variety of tanks.

My thought on this one, is that the fish would have a much better and long life with myself, than going somewhere else, unless its a perfect fit for him.

Here is a point also. I have seen many fish given to what was thought to be a better home by aquarists like myself for what ever reason only to meet their demise.

[Borderjumper]

I say keep him. You said he seemed happy in the cube, you would know if he's unhappy.

[Wingin It]

keep him and make him happy :)

[SeaHorse_Fanatic]

Keep him & let him live out his life with his buddy, Doug:biggrin:

[StirCrazy]

bah, he is small, I wouldn't sweat it. keep him and enjoy him.

Steve

[christyf5]

Definitely keep him. Before long either you or Mike will have yet another (larger) tank anyways :razz:

[SmallFry]

I'm no expert - I've only been in this hobby a bit under 2 years (no casualties so far probably thanks to invincible fish). This is my 2 cents worth..

Logic would say that if you've known him for 8 years you'd know what his normal behaviour is and you'd be well aware if he was stressed.

As it is, you say he seemed happy enough in the 34, so he probably is... I'd keep him and save him the stress of having to get used to a new tank owner and housemates.

I know it's against the 'rules' to have him in that size tank, and in no way would I suggest going out and getting one for a tank of that size, but you've not been irresponsible, and you've ended up in the situation anyway. You just have to make the best call you can.

As the saying goes: "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

I'm still trying to work out which heading I come under.. :mrgreen:

[Doug]

Thanks for the post all. Those are pretty well my views also, at least in this particular situation and not as a general belief.

He will be the sole grazer and as I,m redoing it, will try to make his swimming as best I can with an open area and a clear path behind. He seems to be more of small angel type swimmer. In and out of the rock grazing everywhere.

I can say for sure as my clowns will tell you, he will be spoiled.

[Doug]

I'm no expert - I've only been in this hobby a bit under 2 years (no casualties so far probably thanks to invincible fish). This is my 2 cents worth..

Logic would say that if you've known him for 8 years you'd know what his normal behaviour is and you'd be well aware if he was stressed.

As it is, you say he seemed happy enough in the 34, so he probably is... I'd keep him and save him the stress of having to get used to a new tank owner and housemates.

I know it's against the 'rules' to have him in that size tank, and in no way would I suggest going out and getting one for a tank of that size, but you've not been irresponsible, and you've ended up in the situation anyway. You just have to make the best call you can

As the saying goes: "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

I'm still trying to work out which heading I come under.. :mrgreen:


Great post. :smile:

[Lance]

Doug, as the owner of a Kole Tang myself, I think this is the one Tang that will be ok in that tank. As has been already stated, you've been in the hobby for a long time and can recognize an unhappy fish. Keep him and enjoy him. :biggrin:

[Chaloupa]

I think you've made the right choice for the fish..to rehome him would not be ideal.

I have the same dilema...I bought a Kole Tang when I first started my first tank...it's a 65g hex...so it's 24" across.....and he seems very happy, healthy and small. Might not have been ideal.....but he's happy and that's all that counts!

[fishoholic]

I had a 2" naso tang that I put in my 30g cube for 2 months while my 230g tank was cycling. The whole time I thought the naso was doing ok but it wasn't until the 230g was up and running and I put the naso in it that I realized just how stressed out the naso was in my 30g cube.

That being said though a naso (even a very small one) is different then a Kole, but still I don't think I'd personally ever put any tang into a small cube tank. On the flip side you are right about the possibility of re-homing and it dying in the other person's tank, so I can see your dilemma. You should also know your fish well enough to know if he's really stressed out in the cube tank or not, and if he's not then...... still I wouldn't do it, but I can see why you might.

[Doug]

Can tell you all for sure, if I had a really good home for him in a large tank where he would not be harassed by other tangs and not given away or sold to someone, he would not be going in the cube.

[Skimmerking]

I'm no expert - I've only been in this hobby a bit under 2 years (no casualties so far probably thanks to invincible fish). This is my 2 cents worth..

Logic would say that if you've known him for 8 years you'd know what his normal behaviour is and you'd be well aware if he was stressed.

As it is, you say he seemed happy enough in the 34, so he probably is... I'd keep him and save him the stress of having to get used to a new tank owner and housemates.

I know it's against the 'rules' to have him in that size tank, and in no way would I suggest going out and getting one for a tank of that size, but you've not been irresponsible, and you've ended up in the situation anyway. You just have to make the best call you can.



As the saying goes: "Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men."

I'm still trying to work out which heading I come under.. :mrgreen:small fry who are you nice to see some one else here is this you CURTIS!!!!!!

[SmallFry]

small fry who are you nice to see some one else here is this you CURTIS!!!!!!

Nope, pretty sure I'm not not Curtis.. :lol:

As for who I am, I've been on Canreef for a bit over a year, generally lurking and learning as I go. I currently have a 27 gallon bowfront (first tank) and a 75 gallon in the works (been in the works for a long time!). I don't post that often, usually only when I need advice, or on the rare occasions when I feel I can offer some..

That's about as interesting as I get I'm afraid.. :biggrin:

[Spiny]

If you really can`t see him in the 34, you could always make an ad "free to a good home" and then choose his new master

[Doug]

Update time. He spent a week in the cube. Seemed ok, except when the tank was empty I cleaned the glass and the end thats wood backed is like a mirror. Of course he would not leave that other kole alone. :lol: He even had the male perc believing there was more fish in there and the perc was fighting the glass also.

Anyways, he was making my clowns uncomfortable. Never seen them like that. So on the weekend I moved them to my 50g, again. :lol: That lasted a day and I hated the tank as much as the last time I tried, so moved everything back to my cube, except the kole.

Mike decided to give him another go in his tank. What a pair of softies we are. What we dont do for our pets or whatever one calls them. So back in the 150g he went. Mike mentioned he was eating clip algae and keeping out of the way of his huge saifin, who was reminding him who,s boss in there.

Never chatted with Mike yet today. I hope the little guy is doing fine and has enough brains, {likely not} top not bother his acans again with his second chance.

I may add that I very closely watched his behaviour in the cube as compared with the 4ft. long 50g. As good as he was, {esp. the 1st. time} in my cube, he was notably happier, {in my opinion}, with 4ft. in front and 4ft. behind to swim. So he better behave himself as he has a ton of room in Mikes tank to cruise.

My clowns and the dufus pj cardinal nobody wanted and the little mandarin I got from Steve Phelps are the only residents now. I can say for a fact my clowns are very pleased with that situation.

[Myka]

Hey Doug! I am happy to hear he is not in the 34g tank anymore. They really do need more space, although I totally understand the attachment you have for him. I had a 1 1/4" Kole in a 33g tank for a few months, and he acted the same way when I moved him to my 90. I don't think he was stressed at all, but he was significantly smaller than yours. Have you thought of getting a larger cube tank? What do you hate about the 50? Albeit I think the 50 is also too small.

[gobytron]

wow.

what a significantly different thread than some others I have seen regarding tangs in "too small" tanks.

I can't wait to quote and reference this thread later on.

great read.

[Myka]

wow.

what a significantly different thread than some others I have seen regarding tangs in "too small" tanks.

Doug is also a moderator...he wears a permanent flame retardant suit. ;)

[lastlight]

Doug is also a moderator...he wears a permanent flame retardant suit. ;)

Oh I'm supposed to treat Tony and Ryan a little better too you're saying? Shoot I didn't know that :smile:

So this seems like a nice place to ask (if Doug will allow it).

My tank is 36x24x26 (97g) and I want a Kole. What are your thoughts since you've all got Kole on the brain?

[gobytron]

lol...
I have a biocube 14 that I'm thinking tang for...

Now if I can just find out where I can order a small enough police cap for him to wear It'll be go time.

[naesco]

Your tank is too small for tangs.
Tangs are swimmers and require the larger 6'+ tanks that provide the room they need.
An exception is a kole tang however even a 30 is too small for it but I could not post that because Doug is a mod. BTW Doug when did you get the police light?

Brett your tank is large enough for a kole though and thanks for asking before you buy.

[Doug]

Hey Doug! I am happy to hear he is not in the 34g tank anymore. They really do need more space, although I totally understand the attachment you have for him. I had a 1 1/4" Kole in a 33g tank for a few months, and he acted the same way when I moved him to my 90. I don't think he was stressed at all, but he was significantly smaller than yours. Have you thought of getting a larger cube tank? What do you hate about the 50? Albeit I think the 50 is also too small.


The 50 just does not work in my little fishroom/office. Samr reason i cant have a larger cube. Besides my 6ft. 225g at my other house I did have a 180g cube. Best tank I ever owned.

[Doug]

Doug is also a moderator...he wears a permanent flame retardant suit. ;)

:lol: Thanks Mindy.

Oh I'm supposed to treat Tony and Ryan a little better too you're saying? Shoot I didn't know that :smile:

So this seems like a nice place to ask (if Doug will allow it).

My tank is 36x24x26 (97g) and I want a Kole. What are your thoughts since you've all got Kole on the brain?

IMO, that size tank is fine for one of the smaller tangs. I still go with the longer length the better theory but cant see why a kole for instance, who grows up in a 100g tank of that particular size would not be happy, esp. with a good home.

Plus see my reply to Wayne below.

Your tank is too small for tangs.
Tangs are swimmers and require the larger 6'+ tanks that provide the room they need.
An exception is a kole tang however even a 30 is too small for it but I could not post that because Doug is a mod. BTW Doug when did you get the police light?

Brett your tank is large enough for a kole though and thanks for asking before you buy.


Of course my tank is to small Wayne. I know that. Its why I posted here to discuss it.

All to often we are to quick to say the 6ft. requirement quote or something similar without taking into consideration the aquarist and/or the needs of the fish. {besides the swimming length}

The thread was posted exactly because of that situation. We have had this guy for over 8 years. What would you or others suggest we do with it. There is nobody here to give it a good home. Perhaps drop it off at the local store and it ends up who knows where or dead.

Would some of you like to know how many sad tang and large fish stories I can tell you from aquarists who have large tanks but not a clue on how to keep them. And thats a long list from my 35yrs. of keeping saltwater fish.

I may have my troubles with sps corals, but can assure you, not with fish. This was the best option for this particular fish at this particular time and in this particular situation.

At least thats was my opinion on it and seems many others. Mike has alleviated that, by putting him back in his 150g and I hope he will be fine or we are back to the same problem

So all tang/tank problems are not cut and dry.

And whats with me being on staff got to do with anything, although the respect is appreciated. :D If I posting something you or others dont agree with have at it. Thats why I posted it. As someone said, its a great read and good discussion.

[Doug]

Oh and the little police light in in the smilie list. I just added it to my signature. :D

[intarsiabox]

I agree that sometimes a pet owner has to do what they think is best for the animal regardless of "accepted practices". I think I made a bad decision over 3 years ago and still regret it. I raised a maroon clown for 2 1/2 years until he started becoming violent towards my other fish. I didn't know about canreef at the time and didn't know any fellow reefers so I took him to a pet store to be rehomed. There is a lot of beginners who know nothing about maroons and their behaviors and I am afraid it went to one of these people and ended up down the toilet. In retrospect I only had room for a small tank but wish I had set one up just for him even though a larger tank than I could set for him is recommended. I worry that the fate of a smaller tank is better than what may have happened to him.:sad: I realize that tangs and clowns have different swimming needs but that's my story.

[Myka]

Hey Doug, I think we should get together and drink a case of beer while discussing this most important topic. ;)