Help with outflow

[digi]

Hey all,

I've failed to setup an internal overflow when building this tank, and am now paying the price. I'm trying to get some more flow going from my display to my refugium & sump.

Here's my current low performing setup.

http://www.digitallyblue.com/outflow.jpg

Before anyone comments, I've tried millions of external stockman tubing setups without success. (See here: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223488) The sound is simply too loud.

Here's my current idea. I was thinking of creating a glass box that will attach to the back of the tank, although probably only about 6" long, and use that as my overflow. So, sortof like a HOB for my tank, although much cleaner looking, and water would drain into this overflow through the current hole in my display tank.

My problem is that I wont be able to drill the bottom of this "overflow". All the stockman setups i've seen require a hole at the bottom. Does anyone have a SILENT setup that doesnt have a hole in the bottom for a drain?

Comments? Ideas?

[scherzo]

If your flow is slow because of the diameter of your bulkhead then building an external overflow and having the water flow THROUGH the bulkhead would roughly give you the same amount of flow.

You could try an external overflow box with a larger GPH flow then increase your return pump to match the greater flow.

If you want to go the cheap route you can build a DIY PVC overflow and then just use your current hole as your emergency overflow to prevent flooding.

[Skimmerking]

Ok i have a overflow box in the top left back corner and its drilled from the left side. look up asmodeus's 150 inwall you will see what i did. either way around it you are going to have to increase the size of the hole to get more flow.
1/2" hole 500 may be
3/4" 750
1 " 1000gph
1.5 1200
2.0 1500

[digi]

If your flow is slow because of the diameter of your bulkhead then building an external overflow and having the water flow THROUGH the bulkhead would roughly give you the same amount of flow.

You could try an external overflow box with a larger GPH flow then increase your return pump to match the greater flow.

If you want to go the cheap route you can build a DIY PVC overflow and then just use your current hole as your emergency overflow to prevent flooding.

I should have written some more detail in the post. My subject line is out of whack too. My problem is not with flow, but more-so achieving it with silence. Right now I've got my return pump set to a very low speed.

Keep in mind my total water volume is only 23 gallons (with 8.5 on display) :)

Probably a stupid question - is it possible to add an internal overflow at this time without having to remove all my livestock? Or is it all too late for that?

I'll draw up a diagram later on to describe better what im thinking.

[Slick Fork]

So, if I'm seeing this right from your pic it looks like your problem stems from having to run your plumbing through a hole in the wall almost vertically.

Unfortunately, the quietest setup is the herbie but it requires a decent amount of vertical space. You could try siliconing an overflow box around the hole but I think the best you're going to get is a gurgling sound. I think the only way you're going to get around this is to locate the sump (or the hole to the sump) lower then the tank.

[digi]

So, if I'm seeing this right from your pic it looks like your problem stems from having to run your plumbing through a hole in the wall almost vertically.

Unfortunately, the quietest setup is the herbie but it requires a decent amount of vertical space. You could try siliconing an overflow box around the hole but I think the best you're going to get is a gurgling sound. I think the only way you're going to get around this is to locate the sump (or the hole to the sump) lower then the tank.

Yeah, you're right.. thats where my problem comes from.. I didn't want to drill through my tile, so I drilled the hole in the wall as close to it as possible.

What your suggesting is what I was trying to explain... I was hoping to setup a stockman standpipe, although with a 90 at the end, like shown here:

http://www.randystacye.com/images/glassoverflow/compact%20durso1.jpg

Do you still think this won't work properly?

[Slick Fork]

It might be workable. I would be more inclined though to go back to an external type stockman and silicone an overflow box INSIDE the tank.

It's a PITA to do it without removing livestock but it can be done.

[digi]

It might be workable. I would be more inclined though to go back to an external type stockman and silicone an overflow box INSIDE the tank.

It's a PITA to do it without removing livestock but it can be done.

I'd like to get an overflow happening inside the tank too. This was my first overflowy setup ever, and I really didn't do my research before getting into it... I never imagined a slurp noise would happen.

Anyways, how is it possible to add an internal overflow with livestock? Won't silicone screw up the water? How will the silicone cure? Also, keep in mind how high my hole is drilled.

...I think I'm hoop'd in every way possible.

[Slick Fork]

You can do an internal box, this is one I had on a bigger tank with the same kind of deal, bulkhead in the top right corner

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e244/chrisandheather/misc%20stuff/Fulltank.jpg

I did mine "coast to coast" style but there's no reason you couldn't just make it into a small box around the bulkhead. Between this and controlling the flow I reduced the noise to a gurgle. I did NOT have an external stockman on the back so that might reduce it even further. It doesn't compare to a proper thought out overflow but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing.

I installed it with livestock in the tank. I drained enough water to give me access to the area, propped it up with a chunk of PVC pipe and used clamps to hold it to the sides. I left it like that for 24 hours so the silicone could cure properly and then filled it back up. If you have a spouse/kids it might be a good idea to send them away for the afternoon/evening while you're doing this... I invented a whole lot of new swear words!

[scherzo]

This won't work unless you drill a hole in your tank.

This can't sit on the outside of your tank because the bottom of the 90 (at the top of the pipe) must be below the waterline.

If you make an external overflow box where your existing hole is you are still limited by the size of the hole currently in your tank (so you won't be able to increase your flow).

You can't have an internal overflow box because your tank isn't empty. Adding an internal overflow box and keeping the location of your current hole won't solve your problem anyway.

I guess your final problem is that your plumbing needs to almost go horizontally so even if you were to drain your tank and drill a hole lower so you could run a durso, stockman, herbie...etc..etc.. the water would have to travel upwards to get to that hole in the wall to get to your sump (something that drains aren't designed to do... make water go up)

Sooo.. with the 90 at the bottom of this stockman picture that you provided.. the water would have to go up.. which won't work.. unless you had a siphon situation.. which means back to the DIY PVC idea... but keeping that siphon is always the issue with them. I'm using one now.. but I don't have to pump water back towards the water line of the DT so mine works fine.


Yeah, you're right.. thats where my problem comes from.. I didn't want to drill through my tile, so I drilled the hole in the wall as close to it as possible.

What your suggesting is what I was trying to explain... I was hoping to setup a stockman standpipe, although with a 90 at the end, like shown here:

http://www.randystacye.com/images/glassoverflow/compact%20durso1.jpg

Do you still think this won't work properly?

[digi]

Solution?
http://glassbox-design.com/2010/x-aqua-x-inout-wavemaker/

[golf nut]

why not run a siphon line over the top and use the existing drain for the emergency?you will have to check what happens during a power outage.