Nano=Expensive!?

[butters88]

Don't you think nanos run more $ per a gallon than larger systems? I just started SW and I'm running a 10 gallon nano. It seems like the possibilities to spend $ on such a little tank are limitless :eek: :redface:

[Canadian Man]

NO.

I set up my 230g tank and system and I can say foresure that my 230g tank costs more per gallon than a 10 gallon Nano.

Other than waterchanges Nano's are cheep. Even then a 200g bucket, 1 5g waterchange a week. That's 40 weeks for $75.00 if my match is correct. My salt for my 230 alone is 200g bucket for 4 months if not more.

Good try though :razz: :lol: :razz:

[butters88]

haha
well at least I tried :lol: :mrgreen:

[Bob I]

In my opinion, and experience, even someone with modest funds to spend on the hobby can have a real nice nano setup. Whereas as Jonathan says for the large setups you had better have a lot of disposable income, and/or an understanding wife/husband, or all of the above. :eek: :eek:

[Canadian Man]

In my opinion, and experience, even someone with modest funds to spend on the hobby can have a real nice nano setup. Whereas as Jonathan says for the large setups you had better have a lot of disposable income, and/or an understanding wife/husband, or all of the above. :eek: :eek:

Or the DIY nack to Do It all Yourself :mrgreen:

[AJ_77]

Or the DIY nack to Do It all Yourself :mrgreen:

OR, the DIY knack to almost kill oneself...

:rolleyes:


(I have a decent little 20g "ghetto reef" that most people would want to upgrade the equipment on, but it's working fine. Occupants are OK with ~5 watts per gallon, and the tank is what, 16" deep? No biggie...)

:biggrin:

[Canadian Man]

Or the DIY nack to Do It all Yourself :mrgreen:

OR, the DIY knack to almost kill oneself...

:rolleyes:

:biggrin:

:razz:

[Bartman]

NO.

I set up my 230g tank and system and I can say foresure that my 230g tank costs more per gallon than a 10 gallon Nano.

Other than waterchanges Nano's are cheep. Even then a 200g bucket, 1 5g waterchange a week. That's 40 weeks for $75.00 if my match is correct. My salt for my 230 alone is 200g bucket for 4 months if not more.

Good try though :razz: :lol: :razz:

Au contraire! I have a 10G nano and I agree that a 200G bucket of salt will last me a long time, but..........

I would estimate that the basic setup of my nano (tank, substrate, PC lights, small skimmer, powerheads, live rock, etc.) exclusive of livestock has, conservatively , cost over $500. This equates to a cost per gallon of $50. There is no sump, refugium, MH lighting, calc reactors, automated top-ups, RO/DI system, etc. Could I not build a 230G system for less than $11,500, without any of the above? :question: :eek:

Personally, I think my nano is better than a TV anyday, but cheap......NO.

[Bob I]

I think you might be comparing apples and oranges Scott. I don't think a direct gallon for gallon comparison works. For one thing you have not factored in a very important component, which is the operating cost of the two systems. I would also think $500.00 for a basic nano setup is high. I only came to about $300.00 for my 15 gallon setup, but I may have missed something. :mrgreen:

[AJ_77]

20g tank - $5
substrate - $25
rock - free
PC retro lighting kit - $50
DIY hood - $15
heater - $5
powerheads - free
filter - free
total livestock - $35
powerbars - $6

Total setup costs - approx. $141.00 (unless I missed something)

[Chad]

20g tank - $5
substrate - $25
rock - free
PC retro lighting kit - $50
DIY hood - $15
heater - $5
powerheads - free
filter - free
total livestock - $35
powerbars - $6

Total setup costs - approx. $141.00 (unless I missed something)

Lets see this is after about 6 months...

20g tank : Free
Substrate: $15.00
Live Sand: $15.00
Live Rock: $100.00
PC Lighting: $250.00
DIY Hood $30.00 (including all supplies to make it)
heater : $15.00
powerheads: $40.00 (3)
filter: $90.00
livestock: $220.00
Protein Skimmer: $35.00
Power Bar: $10.00
Oh and a big bucket of salt: $55.00

Not including test kits... and other minor things.. its about $875.00
About $43.75 per gallon.

Far below what I think a large setup would cost.

Chad

[Aquattro]

For one thing you have not factored in a very important component, which is the operating cost of the two systems.

Correct. I recall I posted a while ago that it costs me about $130-$140/mo for operating costs.

I don't even want to know what the total cost is, but retail replacement at this time would approach 8 or 9 grand, I'm sure. (maybe more)

[Bob I]

Just for fun, I am going to try to match Chad in nano costs. This is for the way my current nano is set up.

15 gallon tank - $15.00
Glass cover - $15.00
Aqualight - $75.00
Shipping - $14.00
Powerhead - $30.00?
AC 200 - $27.00?
Chemipure $10.00?
CPR Refugium - $160.00
Refugium light - $40.00?
Electronic Thermometer - $25.00
Powerbars & timer - $30.00?
Liverock - free
substrate - 0
Livestock - $200.00+
Stand - Free

That comes to a grand total of approximately $641.00. Some costs are shared with my main system, and are not factored in. Some items are just luxury, and the high cost of livestock is the $200.00 worth of zoos I bought recently.
:eek:

Even with some luxury, and unnecesary items, the cost is but a fraction of a large system. :mrgreen:

[Chad]

Alright alright I am still in the lead... woohooo :mrgreen: .. I could prolly add another couple hundred for test kits and such...

I'm curious now to see other Nano costs...

Chad..

[Bob I]

Alright alright I am still in the lead... woohooo :mrgreen: .. I could prolly add another couple hundred for test kits and such...

I'm curious now to see other Nano costs...

Chad..

Your big cost is the lighting. Would it be rude to ask what the lighting is :question: :question:

[Chad]

Alright alright I am still in the lead... woohooo :mrgreen: .. I could prolly add another couple hundred for test kits and such...

I'm curious now to see other Nano costs...

Chad..

Your big cost is the lighting. Would it be rude to ask what the lighting is :question: :question:

hmmmmm............................... no.. :biggrin:

110watt PC 10K.. with reflectors and all that jazz.. I was including the bulb price as well..

Chad

[Shy_Koi]

Nice to have found you folks :)

I was going to go with a 30 g reef, but I like the 45 g dimensions better: 36 x 12 x 24 (the tank-to-be can't be longer than 36" as I'm running out of room in this little house).

I was surprised to see the price difference between a 30 g long (~ $65) and the 45 g (~ $215) at the same store. Unless I can find a less expensive supplier, I may have to go with my original plan for a 30 g...

I'm a reef newbie and still in the slow process of accumulating supplies - hope to be able to start the tank cycling by Christmas (Santa, are ya listening?)

Here's what I have so far:
175 MH/E-ballast/Spider reflector (no bulb) - $127.00 (eBay)
Base rock - $0.00 (made it)
Substrate - $10.00
Oyster shell - $6.00
Powerhead (AC 802) - $41.99
AC 500 - $59.99 (PetsnPonds)
Hagen glo-mat e-ballast (2x40W) - $47.99
30W Phillips actinic - $13.69
30W Powerglo lamp - $17.19
Kent sea salt - $79.00
Stand (built own) - $50.00

Spent so far: $452.85

And here's what I still need:
Aquarium - $200.00?
175W MH bulb - $80.00?
Electronic Thermometer - $25.00?
Powerbars & timer - $30.00?
Heater - $35.00?
8# Live sand (seed) - $32.00?
8# Live rock (seed) - $48.00?
Salifert tests - ~ $100.00
Canopy (build own) - $25.00
RO/DI water (local store) $0.40/gal - $20.00

Still need to spend: ~ $595.00
Sheesh, that 's about $1050 all totalled and and *no* animals accounted for! :eek:
I plan on only having 1 or 2 fish and prob won't add them until the tank has been established for 3-4 months. Hopefully I'll be ready for a few shrooms and zoo's by springtime.

oops - didn't mean to be so long winded with my first post...
Cheers!
~Tamara

[Aquattro]

Tamara, welcome to Canreef. Glad you found us. I think the price for the 45g is way high. I'm pretty sure I can get it here for less than $100!!

[Shy_Koi]

Thanks Brad, I thought so too!
I'll just have to keep looking...
~Tamara

[Bartman]

Even with some luxury, and unnecesary items, the cost is but a fraction of a large system. :mrgreen:

But, at $42.73/gallon that is comparatively very high. I'm sure you could start a larger system for less (per gallon) which I think is what the original poster meant. :question:

Also, speaking from experience, the beginning reefer, setting up a nano, normally wouldn't have access to the advantageous pricing (ie, cheap/free rock, tanks, etc) that you, more knowledgable, reefers have.

[Bob I]

Even with some luxury, and unnecesary items, the cost is but a fraction of a large system. :mrgreen:

But, at $42.73/gallon that is comparatively very high. I'm sure you could start a larger system for less (per gallon) which I think is what the original poster meant. :question:

Also, speaking from experience, the beginning reefer, setting up a nano, normally wouldn't have access to the advantageous pricing (ie, cheap/free rock, tanks, etc) that you, more knowledgable, reefers have.

Sure, I will grant you that, but we are talking a system with luxuries. I would think that with some DIY skills, and looking in the "buy and Sell" on the boards, one could easily have a bare bones 10 gallon nano for around $15.00/gallon. I don't think you could do a large system for anywhere near that price. :rolleyes:

In reality this whole discussion is just academic. In real life there are many ways to do things. I am just saying that with modest $$$ to spend, you can have a nice nano, and be happy. That is what it is all about , no :question:

[Bartman]

Sure, I will grant you that, but we are talking a system with luxuries. I would think that with some DIY skills, and looking in the "buy and Sell" on the boards, one could easily have a bare bones 10 gallon nano for around $15.00/gallon. I don't think you could do a large system for anywhere near that price. :rolleyes:

Absolutely! If I was going to do it again (and I will, with a larger system :biggrin: ) I would do as you suggest. For a beginner, going to the LFS and buying new gear, it can be very $$$. If you're lucky/smart enough to have patience, find this board (and others), do your research you can keep the costs down on any system. :smile:

[Bob I]

This is not intended as an argument, but I am just summing up. As a final analysis you can spend a ton of money on a nano system to set it up. The one thing in a nano's favour is that the running costs are considerably less than a large system. That's it for me on this subject. :rolleyes:

[Doug]

Hi Tamara. :biggrin: Welcome to Canreef. Nice to see another from Manitoba.

[Shy_Koi]

Thanks Doug :biggrin:
Glad to have found this forum!
~Reef Newbie Tamara, of Happy Rock...

[Bob I]

Nice to have found you folks :)

I was going to go with a 30 g reef, but I like the 45 g dimensions better: 36 x 12 x 24 (the tank-to-be can't be longer than 36" as I'm running out of room in this little house).

Are you sure about that size. :question: I am aware of a 45 that is 48x12x18. A 24" deep tank sounds horribly hard to light. :mrgreen:

[Shy_Koi]

Are you sure about that size. :question: I am aware of a 45 that is 48x12x18. A 24" deep tank sounds horribly hard to light. :mrgreen:

I can't say that I have personally seen the 45 g, but 2 different places quoted me those measurements over the phone...

I'm concerned about the 2 ft depth also, but if I stick in a 6" sandbed, would this now make it an 18" water column (and easier to light)? Or did I inhale too much alfalfa dust during chores last night? :lol:
~Tamara

[Bob I]

To begin, I have not seen a tank with those dimensions, but I may not have been paying attention :redface: .I also don't think it is wise to use a six inch sandbed to obviate lighting problems. I tried a six inch bed once, and did not like it. Even the 18" depth, and narrow 12" width is very difficult to decorate. I myself have a standard 50 gallon tank, which is 36"x18"x18". This tank is easily available for just under $100.00 here in town. Using a four inch sandbed I am left with a 14" water column, which I light with a 2x96W PC fixture. That is my two cents worth anyway. :mrgreen:

[Shy_Koi]

I myself have a standard 50 gallon tank, which is 36"x18"x18". This tank is easily available for just under $100.00 here in town. Using a four inch sandbed I am left with a 14" water column, which I light with a 2x96W PC fixture. That is my two cents worth anyway. :mrgreen:

Your two cents is appreciated :biggrin:
The 50 g sounds perfect for me. I was hoping to source a wider tank than the standard 12" so that placement of the live rock would be easier for Ms. Fumble Fingers here.
I'm travelling to Winnipeg tomorrow, so will have a look around for that size.
Thanks Bob!
~Tamara

[Doug]

Tamara,
Where are going to buy in Winnipeg. Jayson at Saltwater Connection will make any custom size tank you wish.

I also once owned a 36in. 50 or 60 gal. It was a very nice tank.

[Shy_Koi]

Jayson at Saltwater Connection will make any custom size tank you wish.

Thank you for that info, Doug.
Jayson's store will definitely be my major stop of the day!
Boy, am I ever glad it's payday tomorrow :biggrin:
~Tamara

[Aquattro]

Boy, am I ever glad it's payday tomorrow :biggrin:
~Tamara

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT go shopping at any reef related store on payday!! Sure, it'll be fun at the time, but wait 'till the next day when you realize what you've done. :lol:

[Shy_Koi]

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT go shopping at any reef related store on payday!! Sure, it'll be fun at the time, but wait 'till the next day when you realize what you've done. :lol:

:lol:
~Tamara

[Bob I]

Boy, am I ever glad it's payday tomorrow :biggrin:
~Tamara

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT go shopping at any reef related store on payday!! Sure, it'll be fun at the time, but wait 'till the next day when you realize what you've done. :lol:

I put all my change away every day, and it takes very little time to save $400.00 that way. Then I spend it on something I don't need. I fell no guilt at all when I do that. :mrgreen:

[Delphinus]

I fell no guilt at all when I do that. :mrgreen:

< gasp > :eek:

[Buccaneer]

I fell no guilt at all when I do that. :mrgreen:

< gasp > :eek:

:rofl:

[Bob I]

OK guys, I made a typo. I will take all the S**T you want to chuck at me. Mabe I should start using Ispell :question:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Okay, I started up a 15 gallon today here's the cost breakdown so far.

15 Gallon tank, free but to buy it would be $24.99
Aragolive black sand $22
15lbs live rock $75
PC 72watt Coralife canopy $119
50gallon bag of Kent salt $15.99
Aquaclear mini $19 (I think)

I drilled the tank myself and put in a 1/2 inch bulkhead, I'm hoping that it will handle a fair amount of water flow back to my sump
1/2 bulkhead $10
Mag drive 2.5 $69.95
Ebo Jager 100watt heater $34.99
scrap Acrylic to build 20 gallon sump $15
20 gallon tank, $24
Bio balls $15

Grand total of $446 so far, that doesn't include any livestock I've got two Rainsford gobies on hold, I'll put in a couple of shrimp, peppermints probably, and a ton of snails. I may upgrade the light to 96 watts but I'm not sure, I'll see tomorrow.

Doug

[Bob I]

Excellent, nanos rule. Maybe we can have a 15 gallon competition :biggrin: . My 15 gallon is sumpless, and will stay that way. I currently have a 12" CPR refugium, and an Aquaclear 200, which has Chemipure. I may get one of those Coralife skimmers so I can say I have a skimmer. :mrgreen: At this time my sandbed is in the refugium even though Dr. Ron says that won't work (I think he is full of it, but that is another story). I have only my zoo collection in the tank, but am thinking to get a Yellow Goby to eat all the mysid shrimp that live in the tank. :BIG:

[Seth]

Hmm lets see how much I've spent................

20 gallon tank $40
15 gallon sump free
Ebo jager heater x2 $60
Plumbing $50
Glass baffles for sump $20
MJ1200 that I dont use anymore cuz it's too powerful $25
MJ500 $10
Hagen powerhead $20
Stand $70
Light Stand $50
150w metal halide light $300
DIY 150W metal halide light $160
Mag5 that I dont use anymore $50
Mag7 that I'm using $80
Float switch $20
Autotop off bucket $5
Refugium light $20
Timers $20

Total cost $1000 bucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont even remember how much I've spent on livestock, other equipment I dont use anymore, additives and food!

Let see, I still need to buy that skimmer and calcium reactor and it's compete hehehehe

[EmilyB]

Dr. Ron says that won't work (I think he is full of it, but that is another story). :BIG:

If I could possibly quote this out of context, I would be actually agreeing with Bob for the first time. :mrgreen: :razz:

[Bob I]

Dr. Ron says that won't work (I think he is full of it, but that is another story). :BIG:

If I could possibly quote this out of context, I would be actually agreeing with Bob for the first time. :mrgreen: :razz:

Ahh, it was bound to happen. Life is funny that way. We often don't agree with anything the other person says, but eventually we reach common ground (or never). I hope Quinn does not spot this :eek:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Seth, does that mean you're using the Mag7 on a 20 gallon tank?, I was wondering if a Mag3.5 would be to much, I guess not.

Doug

[Seth]

Hey BCorchidGuy

My Mag7 goes through a SWCD so a lot of the pressure decreases a lot. I used a Mag5 before and the water coming out felt like 100 gph which sucked. Now my Mag7 feels like around 200 gph which is alright. Maybe my plumbing sucks? hehe

[BCOrchidGuy]

Cool Seth, I've heard alot of good things about those SWCDthingamajigaroos.

BTW I upgraded my light to the coralife 130watt system for my 15 gallon hope that works out well, it sure doesn't look bright.

Doug

[Bob I]

Cool Seth, I've heard alot of good things about those SWCDthingamajigaroos.

BTW I upgraded my light to the coralife 130watt system for my 15 gallon hope that works out well, it sure doesn't look bright.

Doug

Is that the 2x65W Aqualight :question: I have single 65W 50/50 Aqualight on my 15. I really hate that 50/50, it just seems too dull for 65W, so I have the two tube one on order. I believe it comes with a 10000K and Actinic. I think I will replace that actinic with my 50/50, and see how that looks. :biggrin:

[BCOrchidGuy]

Bob the 10k seems to be really drowned out by the actinic, I'm not sure how it's going to work out and yes it's the Aqualight. I've used PC before and always thought that it looks like less light than the wattage rating but I'm not sure how much of that light is light that I can't appreciate. I'll give this a try but I'm going to try to find a source for a 70 watt HQI metal halide bulb and I'll DIY a hood if I have to.

Doug

[BCOrchidGuy]

Bob just so you know I wasn't impressed with the 2x65 aqualight combo, there just didn't look like enough light to me. Today I added the single 65 watt unit with a 10,000k tube and it looks good... (195watts???? on a 15??) oh well there are only a couple things in there, a gorgonian, a zenia frag with some kind of montipora and Antellia, and one single mushroom. They all seem to like the light the way it is today.

Doug