hooking up ballast

[spikehs]

Hey all,

Just got my 400w ballasts from venkiw and I didn't realize they weren't going to have plugs and sockets for the cords, so I was just wondering if someone could tell me how to hook this up. I am assuming I can hook a plug straight up to the input cords, although I don't know which one is positive and which ones is neg (blue or brown?). As well would HD have the sockets that the PFO quick disconnect cords hook up to? or will I have to try and hook them up directly - if so how would i do this? below is a pic thanks a bunch

Sean

http://www.missolutions.ca/~sean/ballast.jpg

[Delphinus]

It's not really positive and negative leads because we're talking AC -- one is hot and one is neutral. I think blue is the neutral. (Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong -- I think blue/brown/green is the European colour code for power leads.) Neutral goes to the wider terminal on the wall outlet plug.

For the leads to the socket, it won't matter which end is which (at least I've found it not to matter). You have a 50/50 chance if it does matter -- if the bulb does not light, try switching them.

I don't think you're going to find the quick-disconnects at HD. Worthwhile looking into, but you'll probably have to go to a specialized electronics store -- would be my guess. What you can do is get the butt end connectors from HD, stick a wire into each end, and crimp. Probably $10 for a crimping tool if you don't have one.

Doesn't look like the ballast is grounded, and I don't like the looks of that ... You should ground your fixture plus your reflector. That screw in the centre looks like a ground terminal, which should be wired to the ground terminal in the wall outlet.

Hope this helps

[spikehs]

there is a ground...that little metal knob, but I am not sure what to do with it...maybe I should just take the whole setup to HD and let them figure it out!

[Stretch]

I'll try and help you out, I have the 250's :biggrin:

Now what i did was I had several computer power cord lying around so i cut off the part that connect to the computer and stripped the wires. The color of the wires in the cord were brown blue green


For Wiring i ballast the wire colors were blue, brown and green , So on the imput (wall) I just matched the colors and ran the green wire too the grounding the metal knob

Now for the socket, I have the PFO socket/reflector so I attached the White and brown wires together and blue and black wire together on the output line (lamp). Green is ground So i ran that too the metal knob

I should mention on my pfo socket cord i cut off the quick disconnect end and stripped the wires inside

I have no quick disconnects, no big deal on my PFO ballast i really didn't need them

[StirCrazy]

if you go toa lighting place (wholesale) you should be able to get a couple sockets for 5.00ish each. now if you look at the diagram thatis on the front of your ballast in your picture that tells you how to hook them up (little to small for me to see exactly, Maybe you can take a close up of the diagram) also if you go to home depot but a couple plugends with coards (about 8.00 each for Heavy Duity ones) and I have to see the diagram for sure but is each one of thoes ballast for 1 bulb or are there plugs on the back side? if each is for 1 bulb I am assuming that one coard is to plug into the wall and the other goes to the bulb. if this is the configuration you could ground both the wall plug and the lighting bracket to that ground lug.

Steve

[Quinn]

there is a ground...that little metal knob, but I am not sure what to do with it...maybe I should just take the whole setup to HD and let them figure it out!

Seriously? My experience with HD has been "uh, dunno man, I just work here". :neutral:

[Aquattro]

there is a ground...that little metal knob, but I am not sure what to do with it...maybe I should just take the whole setup to HD and let them figure it out!

Seriously? My experience with HD has been "uh, dunno man, I just work here". :neutral:

Your HD has people that talk to you?? Wow!!

[StirCrazy]

Your HD has people that talk to you?? Wow!!

the plumbing department at mine knows me by name now.. takes me 15 min extra to get out of there sometimes....

Steve

[kari]

I recently noticed the plumbing department at Rona has less and less fittings while my garage has more and more. 2 more years of this and I am having the grand opening.

[Buccaneer]

I recently noticed the plumbing department at Rona has less and less fittings while my garage has more and more. 2 more years of this and I am having the grand opening.

:mrgreen:

[venkiw]

Thanks Stretch,

On the input side. The red is line/hot, blue is nuetral and the ground should be made into a loop and anchored in the know marked (GND), you should get your 3 pronged power supply chord suitable for 500 Watts rating.

Clip the end of the PFO quick disconnect chord and connect as stretch had indicated. Ground your reflector and connect it to the know marked GND.

Hope this helps.

[spikehs]

ok, hooked up the ballast and i am only getting a faint light (see pic) I left it on for ~10mins to see if it would fire up. Should i assume that i have a connect thats not great? or could it be something else?
http://www.canreef.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=180&size=big&password=&sort=1&cat=500

Thanks again.

[Stretch]

Double check your connections maybe see if the wires aren't connected properly. Have your tryed the other bulb/ballast? Make sure the bulb is properly seated in the socket. When i got these ballast one socket wouldn't work properly so i had pull the metal tab in the socket out a bit then the thing went smooth.

[venkiw]

spikehs,

Is this the bulb that was damaged in the shipment?, if not recheck the wiring.

Venki Worathur

[spikehs]

nope this was the bulbs that looked to be fine, I am going to double check the wiring (probably tomorrow)

Sean

[venkiw]

Hi Spikeh,

Since you figured out how to wire them, kindly enlighten us on what mistake you were making for benefit of other forum members.

Thanks

Venki

[spikehs]

ahh, i think it was just a bit of shoddy wiring, i went back and stripped it a bit more, and twisted it tighter....works like a charm tho.

[spikehs]

well, came home today from school and found the light wasn't on :sad: I double checked all the wiring and everything is perfect, I wired the cords EXACTLY like Strech has his. All i get now is one tiny flicker every 5 mins or so.... does anyone have any suggestions? dud bulb? I am at a loss here....

Sean

[Delphinus]

(This may be a dumb question,) but have you tried unplugging your ballast and plugging it back in?

What guage wiring did you use, what kind of connectors? The socket has good snug fit on the bulb, and so forth?

Have you tried swapping the two wires that go to the socket?

[spikehs]

Thanks for the suggestions, I have plugged it back in a few times now, rechecked ALL the wiring, made sure everything was very tight, etc. I haven't swapped the wires yet because i wired it exactly like stretch, and it was working for 3 days prior (and no one has touched it)....

[spikehs]

Is there any kind of wiring scheme that would allow a bulb to light for 3 days, then blow it? IE some sort of way of overdriving it? I know i didn't do that, but am really puzzled here...

[Stretch]

Try leaving it unpluged for awhile. Other thought is maybe the ballast/bulb blew you never know. See if anyone can test your bulb and ballast for you.

[AJ_77]

With all the stories lately of bulb/ballast problems from the same supplier, this might point to quality control issues. These are from a new facility, supposedly? Maybe still working out the kinks in the manufacturing process.

I've gotta go test my bulb now... :eek: At least it came in one piece.

[venkiw]

Hey AJ_77,

That is not fair, this is the only story so far. And I am working with the buyer. So please try to be reasonalbe with your comments.

As with any supplier one cannot assume responsibility for improper wiring. We know for a fact that ballast and bulb were not wired properly to begin with, so please do not blame a prodcut when the mistakes lie elsewhere.

Venki

[AJ_77]

Hey AJ_77,

That is not fair, this is the only story so far. And I am working with the buyer. So please try to be reasonalbe with your comments.

As with any supplier one cannot assume responsibility for improper wiring. We know for a fact that ballast and bulb were not wired properly to begin with, so please do not blame a prodcut when the mistakes lie elsewhere.

Venki

Hey Venki,

I'm not trying to cause trouble, but I think it is reasonable to expect at least some problems with new products. We can see this with many items where there are issues with production lines and new machinery. I suspect this is where the first batch of "flawed" bulbs came from? These glitches take time (and tweaking) to work out of the manufacturing process.

While there is good support (me included) for your products and the aggressive pricing, there has been more than one story with bulbs having problems, whether with shipping or firing. I admit this is the first ballast story I've seen.

So while I encourage you and will try your products (hopefully long-term), I will keep my eyes open and try to be objective. If I seem unfair, please don't take it personally. I appreciate what you're doing to bring in affordable stuff.

Cheers,

[spikehs]

well to be fair, i don't know if its a bulb or ballast problem yet, I am going to be checking the bulb on Jon's system on the weekend hopefully, so we'll see then...

[Skimmerking]

just a point for every one:
a bulb is more fragile before it is fired ,maybe if you can Venki. you can fire them to try them out to confirmthat the bulbs are in working order.

the reason why is the filiment in the bulb is weak and after yuo fire them up it allows the material to be heated up and formed then that way its going to depend on the peoples wiring or ballasts and we can save all this before somone takes against it ..
and a full blow feast starts up :mrgreen: :idea: :idea: :idea:

HTH
Mike.

[venkiw]

AJ_77,

I am not aware of any problems, even though it is a new product it is coming from manufacturers of Xenon Lights for German Cars. So I would not bash a prodcut with out knowing the facts. The few bulb breakage by carriers should not be blamed on us.

You seem to be drawing some conclusions out of thin air.

We know the standards enforced in our production line, but not all buyers are the same, we seem to be having a streak of bad luck with one buyer.

We have stopped responding to enquiries and we are not shipping products anymore to members of this forum temporarily till this problem is resolved.

Venki Worathur

[venkiw]

Spikeh,

I think you may have done enough damage to the bulbs and ballast. Please do not perform anymore "tests" on the product.

A loose connection causes the amps flowing through the circuit to increase, all gadgets can handle a certain increase in amps, but when you overlead the device it will fail. We advised you to get an eletrician with the wiring.

No one will assume responsibilty for abuse of the product. Please make your trials with your own time and money.


Venki

[AJ_77]

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/images/smiles/fouetaa.gif

[Aquattro]

http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/images/smiles/fouetaa.gif

lmao!!!

[StirCrazy]

We have stopped responding to enquiries and we are not shipping products anymore to members of this forum temporarily till this problem is resolved.

Venki Worathur

Venkiw, this is twice I have seen you say this now. once on AP when there was a open complaint about one of your bulbs and now here.

Having owned a couple businesses myself I was actualy quite shocked by your responce to this as the only way you are selling is by e-bay and the exposure you are getting on these boards and here you are ailianating every member of the board over 1 or 2 comments.

Up untill this morning when I read this I was going to order 4 of your bulbs (two of the 10K and two of the 14K) but after seeing your responce to the slightest negativity I think I will buy AB's while I am in Sandeigo next week as I am now scared that if I had some unforseen problem with shipping you would not respond.

Steve

[Aquattro]

Venkiw, this is twice I have seen you say this now. once on RC when there was a open complaint about one of your bulbs and now here.



Not that I'm counting, but a similar thread ended with this same thing on aquariumpros.ca. That makes 3 Steve.

[Samw]

We have stopped responding to enquiries and we are not shipping products anymore to members of this forum temporarily till this problem is resolved.

Venki Worathur

Venkiw, this is twice I have seen you say this now. once on RC when there was a open complaint about one of your bulbs and now here.





I think you're mistaken Steve. I previewed all 13 messages from venki at RC and none was negative. I think the bulbs that are having problems are the XM's.

[StirCrazy]

I think you're mistaken Steve. I previewed all 13 messages from venki at RC and none was negative. I think the bulbs that are having problems are the XM's.

nope if you read them again on RC it was because some one complained to him via PM as he stated as the reason.

Steve

[Samw]

Hi Steve, this is the 3rd time I've done the search and I still don't see what you are talking about on RC:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=2069951

[Aquattro]

Sam, I'm with you. I don't see anything on RC like this. So back down to twice :razz:

[kuatto]

I just read it and he does explain


http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15964#post15964

[StirCrazy]

yup my mistake it was Aquarium pro not RC. sorry for the confusion

Steve

[Stretch]

I just read it and he does explain


http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15964#post15964

Care quote what he said on here for those of us without access?




I don't see why venkiw in such a huff for....... I mean when i worked at futureshop It wasn't uncommon for things not to work out of the box or fail within a few day. We just exchanged them and made the customer happy. Why he denies the possiblitly of the ballast failing is beyond me and he seems to be placing the blame on spikehs. Even the best of companies cannot guarentee a 100% of their product will work out of the box. Perhaps if venkiw would post a proper troubleshooting guide/ wiring guide on his website this may have been avoided

[AJ_77]

Perhaps some good will come of these cheaper bulbs coming into the market, by driving the prices down a bit on the high-end bulbs (the ones that have been proven through years of use and testing).

I agree that it's odd we aren't able to scrutinize a new product (one that we're already spending money on, in effect becoming beta testers), without causing a storm of controversy and threats from the supplier...

Very odd behaviour indeed. :confused:

I understand that a new product line can be exciting, especially if it generates good buzz and if the distributor feels he is doing something worthwhile for the reefing community (which seems to be the case). But its' going to take time -and work- for this relationship to be established. It's not good to be putting on a sour face this early in the life cycle of the product, and possibly alienating those which have already shown some support in cash and good faith.

Poor form...

[kuatto]

He's not in a huff,actually just the opposite(sounds like a pretty good guy)

-He wrote;
I like everyones post here, and let me just clarify that I did not have any issues with anyone who hase posted so far on this forum about the results.

I like positive criticism, I am proud that the bulbs are compared with other bulbs that cost 5 - 8 times more than these bulbs. Like I said even the comment about the bluer bulb did not offend me. I swear to god!!!, I actually like it, because we are working on a 13K bulb for the AB lovers.

It was just a PM that I got that get me worked up. Like most of you know I lost money by selling these lamps for 20$, which is below landed cost of these bulbs. I have even gone to the extent of offering a refund for the few bulbs that have been reported damaged in shipment, I am sure that the members will vouch for me on that.

I have now found out from the person that PMed me that the ballast was faulty!!!.

Let me tell you honestly, this has been a wonderful forum, the support I have been getting is phenomenal. I'll be working at getting other products at these unbelievable prices.

I am in it for one reason - to make the hobby more affordable for everyone out there.

Thanks to you all

[StirCrazy]

kuatto

yes that was the post later on after he realized he went off the handle.. I expect we will see a simular post soon.

but should you punnish a whole market groupe because of one privat msg?

Steve

[venkiw]

With all the stories lately of bulb/ballast problems from the same supplier, this might point to quality control issues. These are from a new facility, supposedly? Maybe still working out the kinks in the manufacturing process.

I've gotta go test my bulb now... :eek: At least it came in one piece.

I do not like such stories that are not based on fact. Can anyone tell me what sort of problems you have had with my products. While everyone so far has jumped on the band wagon to bash about me, only a few have come to my support, which is OK (all it takes is a small spark and people get ignited (excited)). I had indicated that we are suspending it temporarily because I wanted all the stories about our prodcuts to be heard, unfortunately there is none.

I cannot see this as anything but bashing behaviour, I do not know the motive behind such acts.

Perhaps some good will come of these cheaper bulbs coming into the market, by driving the prices down a bit on the high-end bulbs (the ones that have been proven through years of use and testing).


Not if you continue with this attitude..., I hope you do not have a conflict of interest here.

It is your money and you can spend it anyway you like but doesn't give you the right to bash a product with no reason.

I do not have time to respond to such baseless accusations, and if left unanswered someone on another forum will point to this thread, since most of us are good at inserting links.

I know there will be some person in any forum who enjoys creating unnecessary panic and chaos, we are in no way punishing anybody, but we do not I repeat like false propaganda.

Like most of you know by now, we are trying to help the reefing community and would aprreciate the same level of curtesy from you to make our effort a success.

Unfortunately fairness is a 2 way street.

[blaster]

Why don't you stop whinning and figure the problems out.When people pay money they have a right to be not satisfied with their purchase.

[venkiw]

A refund has been offered to the buyer upon receipt of materials in good order.

Venki

[Bob I]

Spikeh,

A loose connection causes the amps flowing through the circuit to increase, all gadgets can handle a certain increase in amps, but when you overlead the device it will fail. We advised you to get an eletrician with the wiring.
Venki

I am an electrician, and I will assure you that this statement is not true. :rolleyes:, and if someone wants to pick me up to take me to their house, I will be more than happy to check your connections, if that would make Venki happy. :mrgreen:

[AJ_77]

Venki:

Sorry if this all seems a little "harsh" but people are wary of new products, period. And please don't say that only one person is supporting you - everyone who has bought a bulb is supporting you and your efforts (myself included).

You should have seen the grief Stephane went through when he was selling bulbs a while back, and a few of them had problems (mostly in shipping). It worked out OK in the end, but things were tense.

There are a few reefers in Calgary that have had broken bulbs, a couple of misfiring bulbs (replaced), and now a bad ballast (maybe). ALL these people haven't stepped forward to tell of their problems - maybe they see that it will cause them more problems, I don't know...

I've worked in manufacturing and retail/sales, and I was curious to know if there were some quality control issues. This is also to say: "These problems are common on startup. They will likely be resolved." Perhaps in a year I will be a loud-mouthed fan of your products, but remember it will take at LEAST that much time for us to tell how good this product is.

There has been much positive feeback from your customers so far. There has been a little negative or neutral feedback - I think you're doing pretty well so far! Please don't use language such as "bashing", "baseless accusations", "unnecessary panic and chaos", and "false propaganda." This is inflammatory language, when what we need is level-headedness.

Bottom line: we're not bashing you. I've seen real bashing, and this ain't it! You're putting your bulbs up against the best in the market, and they will therefore come under the same intense scrutiny, price notwithstanding.

Work through these problems, bear with the scrutiny, and you'll hopefully win some life-long customers.

Good luck to you!

[Bob I]

As I posted in another post, I am getting concerned about CSA listing. I somehow recall that you can't sell electrical products in Canada without such certification. I may be out of date on that though. :eek:

[venkiw]

Our products will be sold only with UL CSA labels, this was a batch without a brand name so we stripped the CSA and UL labels.

Thanks for volunteering to test, but it has been arranged to ship the ballast back to me.

On the loose connection aspect, I am pretty much sure as I am an Engineer that loose connections will cause circuit to blow. I'll be wiring it to work over my tank.

Venki

[Doug]

Please keep it with in the boards guidlines, guys. No need for telling someone to stop whinning and such.
Thanks

[Bob I]

On the loose connection aspect, I am pretty much sure as I am an Engineer that loose connections will cause circuit to blow. I'll be wiring it to work over my tank.

Venki

Well as an Electrician, I know that a loose connection will cause greast problems at the connection point. Mainly it will cause great overheating, and most likely a fire, but it will not cause a problem at the load end except less current and voltage, and I don't think that would cause bulb failure. And yes, hopefully the breaker will trip before the fire happens. :rolleyes:

[venkiw]

From what I have heard, the bulb works ok when tested on another ballast. Since the ballast will be shipped to me I'll let you know what mistake was made. I cannot look in to my crystal ball roght now. Which is the load end to the best of my knowledge the ballast need wiring on both side. Making nine connection points as part of the wiring.

Low voltage will spike the current though the circuit to compensate for the low voltage. which will cause the fuse to blow in the circuit. If I find a blown fuse in the circuit, I'll know exactly what happened.

I may have to ask some dumb question before I hire my next electrician.

[Bob I]

.

Low voltage will spike the current though the circuit to compensate for the low voltage. which will cause the fuse to blow in the circuit. If I find a blown fuse in the circuit, I'll know exactly what happened.

I have no vested interest in any of this, but I have a problem when statements are made that are patently wrong. Here is the basic formula I=E/R, with E being voltage., I is current, and R is resistance. Therefore, if E is low, then naturally I will also be low, and no current spike will occur.

I can only say with some confidence that a bad connection will not cause component failure, but a WRONG connection will.

I may have to ask some dumb question before I hire my next electrician.[/quote]

[venkiw]

LMAO!!!

Do you really mean this, I hope not.

Can I hear your explanation for:

W = VI*Power Factor.

Where W = Watts, V = Voltage & I = Current.

[Bob I]

No, that ain't going to happen. As I said I have no real interest in all of this. If, however, you want to visit me here in Calgary, I would be more than pleased to show you what I mean.
:changes: :crazyeye: :agrue:

[Aquattro]

Gentlemen, please see Doug's comments above. Thanks!

[Skimmerking]

i knew this was going to happen, on this piece of borad. We should have a live cam forum so when sombody has a problem they can sort it out on a cam site...

I have seen this so many times i was a moderator on a site and was slammed all the time on the advice on what i knew ,never again .any ways people alweays see the other side of these conversations and they always end up like this..

its too bad to see this oh well to each his own................. :question:

MIKe

[Bob I]

I agree Mike. The problem is what you said. Just seeing words on a screen leaves one open to all kinds of interpretations. I offered an opinion, and was told by another poster that he was LM(H)AO. I fully realise that I forgot something in the formula I posted, and would have appreciated being told in a gentlemanly way that this was the case. It actually has no bearing on the problem people were having. So the answer he posted in a very snide way left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and I am unlikely to buy anything from him. If a clerk in a store talked to me that way, I would tell him to kiss my you know what, and would go to another store. :mad: