Is it just me

[Slick Fork]

Or are prices really kind of crazy???

Now don't get me wrong, Although I mostly lurk it's not my first day and I'm guilty of shelling out some pretty big bucks for various items.

I guess what's prompting this is a thread I keep seeing bumped up a "SALE" on a certain companies two part containers. Now, in the interest of keeping this civilised it's not a bash on the retailer as I've never had any dealings with them... this is just what prompted me to comment on prices in general

I mean really, they are offering on SALE a pop bottle sized container capable of holding liquid for the bargain price of $40 and I'm supposed to be excited? I could understand $15 or $20 as a retail price cause after all, you do get the straw that reaches to the bottom...

Same goes for some of the skimmers out there. I can understand the portion of price that goes to the pump but lets face it, the rest of it is simply a plastic jug with a specific shape. I get that some research and development goes into these things but when you prices going into the THOUSANDS of dollars and huge add ons for ridiculous stuff. You want a bubble plate... you know a thin plastic disc with holes drilled in it... that'll be an extra $100 (if you're lucky). I've heard the old argument that the materials are expensive and they use nothing but the best acrylic but come on, it's gotta hold water and mix it with air. I don't need it to withstand atmospheric re-entry or earn a 5 star crash test safety rating. Advanced engineering... half this stuff is mass produced in China and once the physics were figured out all these companies do is make minor adjustments in shape to see if they can tweak it a little.

I know, companies charge what the market will bear... maybe that's the problem. When someone see's a 2.5 litre jug for $40 and says "Hey, that's a good deal" instead of going to Canadian Tire or Wal-Mart and paying $5 for a juice jug they really are making it worse for all of us.

I'm sure I could think of lots more examples but I've probably ranted enough for now! Again, not a bash against any specific vendors... just the dry-goods industry in general!

Cheers

[The Grizz]

I have to agree with you Slick, the cost of certain dry good's is a hard pill to swallow for sure. I wish the price of T5 bulbs where a little better or that you could get a nice discount when you order 4 or more , 8 or more or in my case 16!

[ScubaSteve]

Yes, I agree with you here but there is more to this (I'm neutral stance in this area, BTW).

First of all it's the whole mentality of a niche product for a niche market and we're gonna charge you through the nose (not necessarily the retailers but the manufacturers/distributors as well). Plus they know you have the money (because you're already spending it) and they know you are going to buy it (let's face it, this hobby is more addicting than heroin... which actually might be the cheaper option) so they can more or less charge what they want.

Granted they do have to make a profit and in higher risk ventures (I wouldn't exactly call aquarium supplies a low risk business) you charge more for taking the bigger risk. Plus, people have to make a living at this or we wouldn't have any of this. I know how this works; I own a tech business myself and I have to design, build, sell and price things accordingly.

However... there is a point where things start to get ridiculous.

For some items I can understand all this but for some... I want to smack people (the buyers) upside the head for being too lazy to put something together on their own or drooling over the next little tweak in the newest version of whatever like it's the new iPhone and walking in there with their wallets out (it's kinda like watching a junkie get their next fix...).

If you want an elegant solution or product, you are going to be paying more for it until it reaches some sort of critical mass (which is likely hard to achieve in this industry) or the manufacturers go for a more cost effective design (for example, the containers that sparked this whole debate... they're pretty, elegant, effective but that is not the most cost effective design). However, if you desire the elegant solution over a DIY unit, then you have to be prepared to pay for it.

If you (as in a general "you"... not you specifically) don't like the prices, learn to make these things yourself (which can often be the more expensive route if you need to buy the tools and such). If you don't know how to design and build things, ask around here. Heck, I'll gladly post tutorials on how to design and build certain items if people are interested (most aquarium parts are just miniaturized versions of equipment from my industry).

The high prices suck and I agree they are ridiculous but I can guarantee you that there aren't many aquarium retailers or manufacturers ripping around their own tropical island in a Ferrari :razz:.

[reefwars]

$149 for one bulb I don't use that in my house in twenty years lol

[Wayne]

I certainly hear yah! I was in my LFS not to long ago and looked at one of those gynormis skimmers the size of a small microwave... $1500.

$1500 for some plastic and 4 pumps...

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Something told me to look at this thread, since we are the company offering the containers on sale I would love to jump in here! :lol:

We too think the cost of dry goods on some occasions can be high too, especially in the case of the containers among others; however, every other dealer in the country is obligated to sell them for $75 for the 5L and $60 for the 2.5L. I would think we are doing our best here to make things hurt a little less......

I run the containers at home and they are actually really handy and work better than a plastic container with a loose airline sitting in the bottom. Are they worth $75 and $60 respectfully? No. But would I still buy them at regular price if I were a regular hobbiest? Yes. The reason being because they are exactly what I was looking for.

Some things to remember when questioning the cost of goods in our industry when gross margin and profits are concerned;


Niche Market lower production volumes
Cost of production
Cost of Marketing
Cost of R&D
Distributors of the items have to stay in business with "acceptable" margins.
Cost of shipping in minimum quantities
Cost of Duty and custom brokerage
Cost of utilities
Cost to run systems (Salt, Water, Food, misc supplies)
Paying employees
Paying for insurance
Covering costs of business systems including 2-3% for credit card processing and Paypal
Paying for websites and hosting
Absorbing livestock losses
Absorbing returns and defective goods
Advertising
The list goes on and on.....







Or are prices really kind of crazy???

Now don't get me wrong, Although I mostly lurk it's not my first day and I'm guilty of shelling out some pretty big bucks for various items.

I guess what's prompting this is a thread I keep seeing bumped up a "SALE" on a certain companies two part containers. Now, in the interest of keeping this civilised it's not a bash on the retailer as I've never had any dealings with them... this is just what prompted me to comment on prices in general

I mean really, they are offering on SALE a pop bottle sized container capable of holding liquid for the bargain price of $40 and I'm supposed to be excited? I could understand $15 or $20 as a retail price cause after all, you do get the straw that reaches to the bottom...

Same goes for some of the skimmers out there. I can understand the portion of price that goes to the pump but lets face it, the rest of it is simply a plastic jug with a specific shape. I get that some research and development goes into these things but when you prices going into the THOUSANDS of dollars and huge add ons for ridiculous stuff. You want a bubble plate... you know a thin plastic disc with holes drilled in it... that'll be an extra $100 (if you're lucky). I've heard the old argument that the materials are expensive and they use nothing but the best acrylic but come on, it's gotta hold water and mix it with air. I don't need it to withstand atmospheric re-entry or earn a 5 star crash test safety rating. Advanced engineering... half this stuff is mass produced in China and once the physics were figured out all these companies do is make minor adjustments in shape to see if they can tweak it a little.

I know, companies charge what the market will bear... maybe that's the problem. When someone see's a 2.5 litre jug for $40 and says "Hey, that's a good deal" instead of going to Canadian Tire or Wal-Mart and paying $5 for a juice jug they really are making it worse for all of us.

I'm sure I could think of lots more examples but I've probably ranted enough for now! Again, not a bash against any specific vendors... just the dry-goods industry in general!

Cheers

[mark]

supply and demand (that's why toilets are so expensive). Need to get more people hooked on reefing to bring the price down.

[lockrookie]

The high prices suck and I agree they are ridiculous but I can guarantee you that there aren't many aquarium retailers or manufacturers ripping around their own tropical island in a Ferrari :razz:.

i agree the retailers are not but the mfg may be depending on where and who is mfg it :)

the way i look at it if you have the money and want the "brand name" tommy hillfigure or whomever gucci bag type product for the oooooh and ahhhhh factor. then so be it. if your like me who likes the value village handme down getto tank(hopefully without skid marks) that does the job and still get the oooh and ahhh (little less ooh and ah than the name brand). i have no problem buying your hand me downs. they work.

all in all its a hobby, all hobbies are expensive. i once had the pleasure of watching a guy build a scale plane. spent thousands. got to see the first flight. got to see 3 grand and many hours of work fall from the sky and smash into millions of parts. just as we watch our tanks crash. difference between us and planes we dont worry about the cost of the crash as much as the poor corals and fish that suffer the crash. just my opinion.

[Wayne]

supply and demand (that's why toilets are so expensive). Need to get more people hooked on reefing to bring the price down.

Need to get more people hooked on Reefing! That is the answer :lol:

[The Grizz]

I would like to know how much profit is made on a 54w T5 bulb when the LFS sell them any where from $27 - $32 depending on brand. Just my 2 cents but bulbs are to expensive for how short of a life they really have.

[Slick Fork]

Awesome that you jumped in Ian, and again I wasn't trying to single out the retailer as I'm well aware that sometimes you guys don't have any choice. I ran a business myself so I know all about slim margins and overhead and I appreciate that you guys don't necessarily always get to choose your pricing

I'll take a line to acknowledge that you guys and a couple of other retailers really do try to cut the costs and are not necessarily the root of all evil :)

But... Niche market or not, those prices are crazy for something that probably cost $3.00 to manufacture (if that), and no one will convince me that shipping one of those things costs more then $10 or $15. Essentially it's a rigid Canadian tire Juice Jug with a straw.

A large part of the blame falls on us for buying it, but I do shudder a little every time I hear of another product becoming "Exclusive" to one distributor or another or one retailer or another... to me that's just an opportunity for the consumer to pay more. Good for the manufacturer but pretty poor for us (again keeping it general and not trying to bash anybody!)


Something told me to look at this thread, since we are the company offering the containers on sale I would love to jump in here! :lol:

We too think the cost of dry goods on some occasions can be high too, especially in the case of the containers among others; however, every other dealer in the country is obligated to sell them for $75 for the 5L and $60 for the 2.5L. I would think we are doing our best here to make things hurt a little less......

I run the containers at home and they are actually really handy and work better than a plastic container with a loose airline sitting in the bottom. Are they worth $75 and $60 respectfully? No. But would I still buy them at regular price if I were a regular hobbiest? Yes. The reason being because they are exactly what I was looking for.

Some things to remember when questioning the cost of goods in our industry when gross margin and profits are concerned;


Niche Market lower production volumes
Cost of production
Cost of Marketing
Cost of R&D
Distributors of the items have to stay in business with "acceptable" margins.
Cost of shipping in minimum quantities
Cost of Duty and custom brokerage
Cost of utilities
Cost to run systems (Salt, Water, Food, misc supplies)
Paying employees
Paying for insurance
Covering costs of business systems including 2-3% for credit card processing and Paypal
Paying for websites and hosting
Absorbing livestock losses
Absorbing returns and defective goods
Advertising
The list goes on and on.....

[Slick Fork]

I certainly hear yah! I was in my LFS not to long ago and looked at one of those gynormis skimmers the size of a small microwave... $1500.

$1500 for some plastic and 4 pumps...

That's more than I paid for my 40" 1080p LCD Sony television... crazy

[The Grizz]

I certainly hear yah! I was in my LFS not to long ago and looked at one of those gynormis skimmers the size of a small microwave... $1500.

$1500 for some plastic and 4 pumps...

That is $500 less then I paid for my TWO 50" plasma TV's.........things that make a person say WTF.:biggrin:

[Blue World Aquariums]

Something told me to look at this thread, since we are the company offering the containers on sale I would love to jump in here! :lol:

We too think the cost of dry goods on some occasions can be high too, especially in the case of the containers among others; however, every other dealer in the country is obligated to sell them for $75 for the 5L and $60 for the 2.5L. I would think we are doing our best here to make things hurt a little less......

I run the containers at home and they are actually really handy and work better than a plastic container with a loose airline sitting in the bottom. Are they worth $75 and $60 respectfully? No. But would I still buy them at regular price if I were a regular hobbiest? Yes. The reason being because they are exactly what I was looking for.

Some things to remember when questioning the cost of goods in our industry when gross margin and profits are concerned;


Niche Market lower production volumes
Cost of production
Cost of Marketing
Cost of R&D
Distributors of the items have to stay in business with "acceptable" margins.
Cost of shipping in minimum quantities
Cost of Duty and custom brokerage
Cost of utilities
Cost to run systems (Salt, Water, Food, misc supplies)
Paying employees
Paying for insurance
Covering costs of business systems including 2-3% for credit card processing and Paypal
Paying for websites and hosting
Absorbing livestock losses
Absorbing returns and defective goods
Advertising
The list goes on and on.....



Roger that! Stores like Oceanic and my own are in existence because of a passion for the hobby...not a passion for money. There are plenty of better careers that I could come up with that would make me more money. I can't think of anything I would enjoy more than this, however.

I have friends in other retail industries with average margins who commonly and jokingly refer to this industry as a non-profit society! :lol:

If somebody is making a lot of money on this stuff, it's not the competitive retailer.

[zum14]

This is interesting. Im also curious of the end cost of a t5 bulb. Saying that, I feel like big buisness's, manufacturers, and those market analysts have made the value of a dollar about 10 cents. So a litre of gas thats going for 6 cents in some parts of the world(what its actually worth) is 107 cents here. The sad part is that, like the guys here are saying, there not offered the actual prices either so they do there best to offer us a fair price to be able to keep the hobby going. Unless your talking to your boss about wages. Then that dollar has more value then gold. :lol: Just my 2 cents.

[StirCrazy]

supply and demand (that's why toilets are so expensive). Need to get more people hooked on reefing to bring the price down.

toilets are expensive becuse they last so long. so spread out over 25 years they are cheep :mrgreen:

[DiverDude]

Volume. A 14K MH bulb is something that doesn't have a lot of application outside our hobby so the production volume on them is low (relatively speaking) so costs are somewhat higher.

On the business side, we as hobbyists 'demand' a 14K colour temperature so the manufacturers oblige -at a price. We pay that price so the beat goes on.

In defense of the LFS, they need to make money too. In fact, if they didn't, they wouldn't exist and we'd have nowhere to run to when we have a tank crash on a Saturday afternoon. No one likes to pay more than they need to for something but a good LFS will provide value beyond the product itself with good advice. Many of them have been known to take-in sick fish or provide a holding tank in an emergency. These are things that are hard to put a price on.

Finally, I know it's not everyone's thing but you should take a spin at making your own gear. It can be a challenge depending on what kind of tools you have but it's very rewarding -and you get to make something *exactly* the way you want.

[lastlight]

you get to make something *exactly* the way you want.

Lol for me that IS the real problem...or maybe WAS. Someone in Germany or Italy has already made everything far better than I could (and exactly how I want it haha).

Gotta support LFS like you said. I've gotten help or equipment (sometimes stuff that was used in the store) in a pinch when I had no other local and fast options. These relationships are worth much more than the little bit extra you might pay.