Flow Through DSB

[bioload]

Hi all,

I've recently started a new tank that is about 6 weeks old. This is a brief summary of the tank to date:

Volume - 75gal
Rock - 20lbs live 30lbs dry
Substrate - None
Livestock - 2 Clowns, a Tang and a pair of Coral Banded Shrimp
Filtration - Marineland Emperor 400 BioWheel Filter
Water changes - None to date

The tank has been through it's initial ammonia and nitrite rise and fall with nitrate now being my primary focus, which I would like to be able to control and better understand before I start adding any corals to the tank.

I looked near and far for information regarding Natural Nitrate reduction......... just when you thought you had enough information on the nitrogen cycle.

The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle (http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm)

What is the Nitrogen Cycle (http://www.aquariumsource.com/resources/articles/nitrogen-cycle-new-tank-syndrome.php)

Nitrosomonas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrosomonas)

Nitrosomonas (http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Nitrosomonas)

Nitrifying Bacteria Facts (http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html)

Nitrobacter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrobacter)

What does a Bio filter and a Denitrification filter do? (http://www.waisaquarium.com/Bio&DenitrificationFilters(testformat).htm)

Anaerobic Respiration (http://dwb.unl.edu/Teacher/NSF/C11/C11Links/www.bact.wisc.edu/microtextbook/metabolism/RespAnaer.html)

Anaerobic wastewater treatment reviewed (http://www.esemag.com/0501/anaerobic.html)

Advanced Wastewater Treatment (http://water.me.vccs.edu/courses/ENV149/advancedb.htm)

Wastewater Management Fact Sheet - Denitrifying Filters (http://www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/etfs_denitrifying.pdf)

Denitrification - Advanced Wastewater Treatment Plant (http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Wastewater/information_resources/Advanced_Wastewater_Treatment_Plant/Virtual_Tour/step_4_-_denitrification.asp)

Denitrification (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denitrification)

Denitrification Filter (http://www.water.siemens.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Product_Lines/Davis_Products/Brochures/DV-DF-DS-0209.pdf)

Wastewater Treatment with Methanol Denitrification (http://www.methanol.org/pdf/wastewater.pdf)

Deep Bed Denitrification Filters Play Role in Improved Wastewater Quality (http://www.environmental-expert.com/resulteacharticle.aspx?cid=8563&codi=6681)

Investigation into Methanol as a Carbon Source for Denitrification (http://www.awtwater.com/data/media/documents/Publication%20conference%202007/Investigation%20into%20methanol%20as%20a%20carbon% 20source%20for%20denitrification%20in%20wastewater %20treatment.pdf)

Vodka Dosing...Distilled! (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php)

Aqua Medic Nitratereductor (http://www.aqua-medic.de/en/service/pdfs/NR%201000%20_410.750_.pdf)

Nitrates in Marine Aquarium Systems (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm)

FAQs on Marine Water Quality involving Nitrates (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/no3probfaqs.htm)

Biological Filtration (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup ... ofiltr.htm)

Nutrient Control and Export: Ways to Increase Water Quality and Eliminate Nuisance Algae in Marine Aquaria (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm)

An Introduction to Deep Sand Beds (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm)

Hourly and Daily Variation of Sediment Redox Potential in Tidal Wetlands Sediment (http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/others/99-0001.pdf)

Effect of Alternate Aerobic and Anaerobic Conditions on Redox Potential (http://wetlands.ifas.ufl.edu/publicatio ... erobic.pdf)

The Food of Reefs, Part 6: Particulate Organic Matter (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/eb/index.php)

Hydrogen Sulfide and the Reef Aquarium (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/rhf/index.php)

ORP and the Reef Aquarium (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/r ... /index.php)

In my search to gain a better understanding of the process, I thought this may be a good opportunity to look at nitrate specifically and it's removal since my tank is in it's early stages. The articles above raised as many questions for me as they answered.

That said, I would like to set up a remote deep sand bed and monitor/document specifically its effect on nitrate in my system. Based on what I've read results have been mixed.....surprised? My nitrate reading currently are 80-100 API test kit (any recommendations on test kits/monitors would be appreciated as well).

The first thing I would like to know is how long would it generally take for NNR to occur in live rock, so that any observed reduction can be attributed directly to the RDSB. If I were to add a RDSB right now, and I noticed a reduction in nitrates, would it be safe to assume that the reduction was due to the addition of the DSB, or was it some other process that was happening within the rock that I was not aware of.

Secondly, and more important, I would like to know how the flow within a DSB would effect NNR. Has anyone done any trials using a flow through RDSB, or any studies regarding the flow.

Any feedback on the subject would also be great. Hope to have the RDSB in place soon and interested in seeing what happens.

P.S. links are always appreicated (and always read......eventually).

[whatcaneyedo]

Get a protien skimmer. They remove the waste before it breaks down into nitrate. Sorry dude. Its just that simple.

... The tang police might have something to say about keeping one in a 75gal too.

[bioload]

Get a protien skimmer. They remove the waste before it breaks down into nitrate. Sorry dude. Its just that simple.

Would tend to agree a “good” skimmer definitely removes dissolved organics before it has a chance to break down. Having no skimmer running on the tank, gives me a good opportunity to see directly the effect of a DSB.

[whatcaneyedo]

I guess if you cant be tempted to come over to the dark side here is another article to add to your list.

How Sand Beds REALLY work
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/feature/index.php

I personally just got rid of my deep sand bed about a year ago. I didn't have enough micro fauna in it and so it turned into and H2S bomb. I had less than 1ppm Nitrate then and I am still at that same reading now. For me it wasn't worth it and I'm glad it's gone.

[bioload]

Where to start?......I guess the first question that I have is, does a deep sand bed remove nitrates. I’ve seen many applications of sand which include substrates within the display tank, partitioned in a refugium, and even contained remotely in a bucket. However, I’ve only seen anecdotal evidence of its effects in an aquarium. Below is a DSB that I’m currently setting up in order to measure specifically the effect a DSB would have on nitrate in my tank.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/Capture.jpg

Let me know if there are any changes that I should make or things to consider regarding this approach. Other system details have been listed above and will not change.

[fencer]

nice resource list...denitrator reactors work like DSB but you add a carbon source to it as a starter anf flow is slow

[bioload]

flow is slow

Will start off slow. I'm hoping the ORP meter will give me a good indication of the effect flow has with regards to dissolved oxygen. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1846579)

[Funky_Fish14]

If anyone wants I have a DSB 'box' that I made for a runway style DSB filter... its 24" long, 6" wide, and 15" deep. Holds almost 10g and can be equivalent to two 5g buckets of 'dsb area'. Its made out of acrylic.

[bioload]

Now that the playoffs are over.....congrats to the folks in the windy city, I've had a chance to get everything together.

I've set up the bed to overflow back into the tank which shouldn't affect what I'm looking for, and as indicated more representative of a typical RDSB type set up. In addition I also realized that the 5 gallon tank only had one drain, and if that should get blocked....well you know.

Here are the first few pics....sand will be added later.
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2627_x.jpg

From the front
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2628.jpg

Closeup of the drain
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2629.jpg

Overflow and drain
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2630.jpg

Drip control and Return to tank
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2631.jpg

Where samples will be taken
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2633.jpg

[fencer]

Most DSB reactors carry a 20% recycle stream

[bioload]

Most DSB reactors carry a 20% recycle stream

Hi fencer, do you have an example of one?

[bioload]

DAY 0

Sand Added this afternoon
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2638x.jpg

Particle Size - Not sugar fine sand but the what I have available at the moment. If I don't get any positive NNR I may have to replace. Will also demonstrate how much impact particle size has regarding NNR.
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2641.jpg

Starting Nitrate Tests
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/IMG_2635_x.jpg

ORP (DSB) = 300mV (dropped to 180mV within 20min of adding sand)
pH (DSB) = 8.00
Drip rate = 0.67 drops/min

[bioload]

The Drip rate above should be 0.67 drops/sec instead of drops/min.....I don't have that much patience.

[Funky_Fish14]

....I don't have that much patience.

Lol!

Great project! Thanks for sharing and tracking it!

Cheers,

Chris

[bioload]

Day 1

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/Day1.jpg

ORP (DSB) = 270mV +/- 10mV
pH (DSB) = 7.29
Drip rate = 0.83 drops/sec

Notes: ORP gradually climbed back up from the initial drop when sand was added. Not sure why this is but I'm thinking may have something to due with flushing out whatever may have been in the sand. Sand was rinsed and stored in a bucket for several week before use.

[naesco]

Live rock is good.
Deep sand bed is good.
Doing at least a monthly water change is good.
Getting rid of the bio wheel would be good
And keeping the nitrates down is good which all of the above will do.
It is nice to see that you are really trying to provide the optimum conditions for your coral.

I think you should take a little time to research the optimum conditions for your fish as well though.

For example, tangs require the longer tanks (6 footers) that larger tanks provide.
Your is four.
Tangs are swimmers. They spend all day swimming back and forth and thus need the swimming room.

[bioload]

Some more intersting links:

Dissolved Oxygen (http://www.fao.org/docrep/field/003/AC183E/AC183E04.htm)

Oxygen (O) and water (http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/oxygen/oxygen-and-water.htm)

Water deaeration (http://www.geabrewery.com/geabrewery/cmsdoc.nsf/WebDoc/ndkw73fbmn)

LOW OXYGEN AND POND AERATION (http://www.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/LowOxygenandPondAeration.htm)

Dissolved Oxygen and Aquatic Primary Productivity (http://www.phschool.com/science/biology_place/labbench/lab12/intro.html)

Autotrophic Biological Denitrification with Elemental Sulfur or Hydrogen for Complete Removal of Nitrate-Nitrogen from a Septic System Wastewater (http://ciceet.unh.edu/news/releases/fallReports/pdf/sengupta03.pdf)

[bioload]

Flow Diagram:

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/Capture_1.jpg

[bioload]

No Nitrate tests tonight. Did one earlier in day, and I'm beginning to get the impression that this may take a while.

ORP: 187mV
pH: 7.19
Drip Rate: 0.8 drops/sec

[no_bs]

Probably 4-6 weeks.

[bioload]

When I chaecked the tank this morning I noticed something strange. There was a increase in the ORP and pH readings which were significantly higher than the night before. Did not get a chance to check the drip rate but it seems to be unchanged.

ORP: 291mV
pH: 7.81

Not sure if this it a trend but I will make it a point to check in the morning and before lights out. Does anyone have any ideas what may have caused the increase overnight?....normal?

[bioload]

Did a few couple test and things don't seem to be going as I thought........or again maybe just to early to make any conclusions.

ORP: 326mV (Back to original range)
pH: 7.18
Drip Rate: 0.73 drops/sec

Nitrate No Change
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/Day5.jpg

Test DO as well and there doesn't appear to be a difference???
http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu78/reefkeeping/DO_Day5.jpg

[whatcaneyedo]

Your system is still quite young. DSB need time to grow their bacteria and micro fauna populations. Like others have already pointed out, it will probably be a month or more before you start seeing results.