Aquarist found dead

[no_bs]

Posting from another fourm, made me change a few things.


Aquarist Found Dead Originally Posted by: joejaworski | September 6, 2007


This could be the next major headline in the nation’s newspapers, and it could be you that dies.

I’m talking about placing your hands in your aquarium and getting electrocuted. All because you failed to install $15 worth of equipment. Not only you, but the $1,000 you spent on livestock over the past year would be fried too. Besides laying dead next to your tank, your aquarium will turn into black soup within hours. Both you and your aquarium will smell pretty bad.

Aquarium water needs to be grounded. Saltwater is about as conductive as copper wires, and any stray voltage needs to be sent to ground where it will do no harm. Stray voltages are generated from lots of things. When a powerhead or pump motor spins it creates a magnetic field that induces AC voltages in the water. Likewise, ballasts that drive your light bulbs located within a few feet of the tank generate tremendous amounts of stray voltage. I’ve measured stray voltages as high as 46 volts in ungrounded aquariums. While this alone won’t kill you, you will get quite a jolt the minute you touch the water. Lots of research has been done that indicates stray voltages cause LLE (Lateral Line Erosion) in marine fishes, Hole-in-the-Head disease in fresh water fish, and bleach spots in SPS corals.

While stray voltages won’t kill you, equipment malfunctions will. Take any standard glass aquarium heater. Due to its age (are you still using that heater you bought in 1998?) or impacts over its lifetime, or a myriad of other failure mechanisms, heaters will develop hairline cracks in their glass casing. When this happens, minute drops of saltwater is forced into the heater. This is because even at a depth of 6-inches, water exerts pressure on an air-filled heater, forcing water through the tiny crack. Eventually, enough moisture gets in where the hot side of the AC line is conducting current to the neutral side. A ground probe won’t save you. While some current will be diverted to ground, current is freely flowing inside the heater, perhaps several amps and charging the surrounding water. When you put your hand in the tank, you present a better ground path and the current goes through you. Your spouse will either find you dead or dying in front of your precious aquarium.

You need to eliminate yourself from ever being part of the ground loop, and the easiest and cheapest way to do this is to install a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupt) outlet. These sell for about $10 at Home Depot. You can buy the kind that replaces your existing wall outlet or ones that are built-in to an extension cord. Either one works. The point is,

An aquarium ground probe won’t protect you from electrocution. You must have BOTH a ground probe and a GFCI.

Here’s a real life story. A few months ago I woke up to find one of my tanks, a 20 gallon setup, dark and quiet. It had lost power. I checked the powerstrip and the pilot light was off but it was plugged into the wall. I quickly realized that the GFCI Outlet had tripped. I pushed the reset button on the outlet to restore power and it wouldn’t stay in. I figured the GFCI outlet had crapped out. I ran an extension cord over to the tank from a regular (non-GFCI) outlet and plugged the powerstrip in. Viola! The lights came on, the pumps started up, and everything was fine.

Being an electrical engineer, I was very curious about the defective GFCI outlet. I plugged everything back in to the GFCI and then started unplugging each cord one at a time. When I got to a Maxi-Jet 1200, the GFCI stopped tripping. I plugged the Maxi-Jet back in and sure enough, it tripped again and killed the power. I grabbed my voltmeter and put one probe in the water and the other to ground. I plugged the tank back in and read 114 volts. Holy **** - If I had put my hands in the tank, I wouldn’t be writing this at all. Or maybe doing so from the intensive care ward. No doubt that I would have been electrocuted if it wasn’t for that GFCI outlet.

I figure that the powerhead must have gotten a crack in its epoxy coating, or perhaps it was there from day 1 and it took 6 months for seawater to slowly leak in. Whatever the reason, the ground probe alone would not have prevented my demise. As long as the current flow through the ground probe stays below 15 amps, the service panel breaker in your house will never trip. And all it takes is 100 milliamps (1/10th of an amp) to stop your heart. No matter what the odds, is your life worth a $20 powerhead?

I don’t know how else to convince you how important this is to do. You need to do it TODAY. If you don’t give a **** about yourself, don’t take a risk electrocuting one of your kids or your spouse. Install a GFCI and a ground probe on EVERY tank in your house no matter how small. If you don’t, the next time you put your hands in your tank may be the last.

[Delphinus]

Ok, to save people from clicking the link, I'll summarize one key thing:

This is an article extolling the use of GFCI breakers. There wasn't actually an active member of aquariumpros.ca found deceased, they are saying "this could happen to you if you don't use GFCI's."

[hillbillyreefer]

Thanks for that. Not to bash but that site drives me nuts, and I've been a member there longer than here.

[no_bs]

Thanks for that. Not to bash but that site drives me nuts, and I've been a member there longer than here.

Yeah, sorry edited. Catch your drift.

[marvinsae]

wish i read this a few hours ago, got shocked a few times cause the wire of a cheap rio pump was exposed to the water...so what should i do? purchase a cgfi outlet and a grounding probe? what exactly is a grounding probe and what does it do

[no_bs]

It will take stray voltage away from the tank.
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=mc-gp

[reefbyremote]

The author wrote "You must have BOTH a ground probe and a GFCI" to be safe.

Is that true? Why both? I run a GFCI and want to understand why you would also need a ground probe. Any electrical or safety experts out there?

[outacontrol]

The ground probe is there to help the GFCI operate, the GFCI is the safety device and is the most important part of the safe aquarium.
The GFCI will work alone without the ground probe, however the ground probe alone without the GFCI is more dangerous than having nothing. The danger in electricity is when you become its path of least resistance to ground.
THE GFCI IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART!

[DiverDude]

A grain of salt (pardon the pun) is called for here.

120VAC from a wall plug can certainly kill you -and as it has been pointed out, it takes mere milliamps (thousandths of an amp) to cause your heart to fibrilate. However, this in only even remotely likely in certain circumstances where the current path is across the heart (like if you had your left hand in a live tank and your right hand on a low impedance path to ground -like a lightswitch).

If you have a grounding probe (that is properly grounded) in your tank and there is an exposed wire in the tank then:

1) If there is enough conductivity between the live wire and the ground probe (like a dead short) then the circuit breaker will blow. That's when they're designed for; to protect property and prevent fires, etc. (not save your life).

2) If the conductivity is high enough so that not enough current flows to flip the breaker -OR- if you do not have a ground probe, then you potentially have a body of water at anywhere up to 120 Volts. In this case, if you put your hand in the water and present a path to ground, then, yes, you can get a shock. However, unless, you are barefoot, standing in a puddle of water that is in contact with something that is grounded, then while you may feel something, it is unlikely that you will be injured.

In fact, the most likely injury you would suffer would be from yanking your hand out and hitting it on your light or something.

Electricity always follows the path of least resistance (it's lazy, just like us) so if the ground probe is present it will present a low resistance path to ground and you will conduct very little by comparison -unless of course you're still standing in that puddle in which case you could be in trouble.

You can drown in less than an inch of water too; you just need to be face down, covering both your nose and mouth -oh, and you'll need to be unconscious at the same time -all possible but not very probable. You stand a far better chance of winning the 6/49 than being killed by your aquarium.

Am I saying this is all fear mongering ? No. Never compromise on safety and GFCI's and ground probes make sense and are inexpensive anyhow. But if you don't have these you are not necessarily 'just waiting to die' either.

[rkelman]

"Being an electrical engineer"

I'd say the OP is an expert.

[outacontrol]

A grain of salt (pardon the pun) is called for here.

120VAC from a wall plug can certainly kill you -and as it has been pointed out, it takes mere milliamps (thousandths of an amp) to cause your heart to fibrilate. However, this in only even remotely likely in certain circumstances where the current path is across the heart (like if you had your left hand in a live tank and your right hand on a low impedance path to ground -like a lightswitch).

If you have a grounding probe (that is properly grounded) in your tank and there is an exposed wire in the tank then:

1) If there is enough conductivity between the live wire and the ground probe (like a dead short) then the circuit breaker will blow. That's when they're designed for; to protect property and prevent fires, etc. (not save your life).

2) If the conductivity is high enough so that not enough current flows to flip the breaker -OR- if you do not have a ground probe, then you potentially have a body of water at anywhere up to 120 Volts. In this case, if you put your hand in the water and present a path to ground, then, yes, you can get a shock. However, unless, you are barefoot, standing in a puddle of water that is in contact with something that is grounded, then while you may feel something, it is unlikely that you will be injured.

In fact, the most likely injury you would suffer would be from yanking your hand out and hitting it on your light or something.

Electricity always follows the path of least resistance (it's lazy, just like us) so if the ground probe is present it will present a low resistance path to ground and you will conduct very little by comparison -unless of course you're still standing in that puddle in which case you could be in trouble.

You can drown in less than an inch of water too; you just need to be face down, covering both your nose and mouth -oh, and you'll need to be unconscious at the same time -all possible but not very probable. You stand a far better chance of winning the 6/49 than being killed by your aquarium.

Am I saying this is all fear mongering ? No. Never compromise on safety and GFCI's and ground probes make sense and are inexpensive anyhow. But if you don't have these you are not necessarily 'just waiting to die' either.

One question for you then, what happens when the fault is in your light and you touch your light, which due to the fault is energized (120 volt, possibly due to a melted wire) then you stick your other hand in the tank?
My answer:
a) If you have a ground probe and no GFCI you are dead.
b) You have no ground probe and no GFCI, you get one hell of a shock and may or may not be okay.
c) You have a GFCI receptacle or breaker and it trips and everyone lives another day, and you go onto Canreef looking for help to fix your light.

I pick C for me, tell your next of kin to let me know how A or B goes for you.

[mark]

in the Ground Probes section (here (http://www.beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx)) examples why a probe only not a good idea and also reasons for GFCI

[Milad]

what about one GFCI on the wall outlet, one extension cord GFCI plugged into the wall outlet GFCI and one grounding probe plugged into the other socket of the wall GFCI? and everything else on the extension cord GFcI

[mark]

what about one GFCI on the wall outlet, one extension cord GFCI plugged into the wall outlet GFCI and one grounding probe plugged into the other socket of the wall GFCI? and everything else on the extension cord GFcI

why GFCI in series?

plug your equipment into a GFCI. Can plug in a regular powerbar into a GFCI and everything into it would be protected. If splitting load, use multiply GFCI, just not interconnected.

Ground probe doesn't need to go into the GFCI ground, any ground would do.

[Milad]

do be super safe! what if one GFCI fails?

why GFCI in series?

plug your equipment into a GFCI. Can plug in a regular powerbar into a GFCI and everything into it would be protected. If splitting load, use multiply GFCI, just not interconnected.

Ground probe doesn't need to go into the GFCI ground, any ground would do.

[StirCrazy]

only problem is you can't use a grounding probe and a GFI togeather or your equipment will be always tripping. unless you have absolutly no voltage leak which.

A GFI is enough to protect you, other wise code would require us to have grounding probes in our sinks as well as close outlets haveing GFI breakers.

Steve

[mark]

Sure you can, running both for 4+ years and have only one trip.

[Dolf]

I'll play devils advocate. It is not at all unusual for me to be gone from the house for 16 or even 18 hours at a time. If I have some stray voltage trip the breaker at 8:00 I will come home at midnight and find everything dead from cold and lack of circulation.

A few weeks ago I gave myself a jolt when one of my Sedra pumps was putting some voltage into the tank and was actually happy that I don't run a GFCI as I really do not know how long the power would have been out. A grounding probe would be a good idea for me and I am now on the hunt for one, but I will take my chances with the rest.

I'm not saying it is the smart way of doing things, only that the thought of killing everything in my tank (again) for tripping a breaker does not appeal to me. I was out of the hobby for years after everything in my tank died due to a breaker tripping and don't care for a repeat.

[kien]

these grounding probe/GFCI discussions always end up the same way.. lots of information either way. Use them or don't use them it is up to you.. you may or may not die, who knows.

There is A LOT of experience in this hobby on this forum, can anyone say that they have been or know someone who has been seriously/critically injured? Just curious..

Anyway, not that it really matters but my take on it is this.. There must be a very very good reason why code requires us to have GFCI in areas of our homes where water and electricity can be present (ie, bathrooms, etc). To me a fish tank is no different. A body of water with a tonne of electrical components.

[mark]

I'm not saying it is the smart way of doing things, only that the thought of killing everything in my tank (again) for tripping a breaker does not appeal to me. I was out of the hobby for years after everything in my tank died due to a breaker tripping and don't care for a repeat.

that's why you don't put your whole system on a single GFCI.

[StirCrazy]

Sure you can, running both for 4+ years and have only one trip.

thats cuz you don't have any leakage. Grounding probes don't solve the problem they hid it, a GFI is realy all you require and if it trips you have a problem.

I split my equipment up between 4 GFI's my self I ran two heaters two MH lights and two actinic ect all set up on different GFIs. this solves the problem if one trips you don't lose everything.

Steve

[mark]

Though they say a GFCI will trip fast enough to protect you still rather it trips on a ground probe than using me as the path to ground.

[outacontrol]

Thats the purpose of the GFCI it trips before the electricity uses you as a path to ground.

[mark]

Thats the purpose of the GFCI it trips before the electricity uses you as a path to ground.
May be 1/2 a cycle but the comparator cct needs to see the imbalance, that's through me without a ground probe

[outacontrol]

May be 1/2 a cycle but the comparator cct needs to see the imbalance, that's through me without a ground probe


If the fault is in the light and the ground probe is in the tank, then it is still through you.
On a side note a GFCI must trip at 0.006 Amps so I don't think 0.0059 Amps for a time of 0.0083 will be of any concern.
Plus the ground probe is a lower imperdance path to ground than any other possible path for the current, and lower impedance means higher current.

[mike31154]

Here are two links to some additional reading material on the subject. Seems from a bona fide source. Personally I split my system load between two GFCI devices and do not use a grounding probe. For added redundancy, each GFCI is on a different circuit breaker. The only buzz I have ever experienced is while brushing my clip on T5HO reflectors with my arm while my hand was in the water. I assume the T5 lamps induced voltage in the reflectors and I completed the path to the water through my arm. I have since individually grounded each of my reflectors and the problem is solved. This was not sufficient to trip a GFCI device, so I also assume the buzz was harmless, below the danger threshold of a healthy individual. Someone with a pacemaker might have had a problem. If I recall correctly, before grounding the reflectors, I read about 30 volts AC between the reflectors and the water. So that potential was always there, but had no place to go until my arm completed the path to the water. If you install a grounding probe in your system, the same situation may arise, with a voltage potential with no path, until a grounding probe or you provides it.

http://angel-strike.com/aquarium/GFI&TechnicalDetails.html

http://angel-strike.com/aquarium/GroundingProbes.html

[Coleus]

well here is my story: I got electrocuted when i was mixing my water the other days. All my tank equipments are split among 2 GFCIs, but for some lazy reason, i hooked my powerhead to a normal outlet and some water leaked into the outlet that i did not see. I got a huge shock but was ok. Maybe my body get used to these because i got shocked so many times (more or less 10 times) when i was a kid and with 220V voltage instead of 110V. But it is something i don't want to experience

[Trocar61]

Where does one purchase a GFI probe? and is one better then the other.

[StirCrazy]

Where does one purchase a GFI probe? and is one better then the other.

home depot sells singles, twin and three packs. there all about the same, I buy the fancy ones with the light that tells you if it is hooked up and working right.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

If the fault is in the light and the ground probe is in the tank, then it is still through you.
On a side note a GFCI must trip at 0.006 Amps so I don't think 0.0059 Amps for a time of 0.0083 will be of any concern.
.

also given that the GFI must trip at 0.006amp, it shows that is it 10 times lower than what is concidered deadly to a healthy person. 0.06 amps will kill a healthy person if it travels through the heart. this is why they have GFIs, they will trip befor the amprage is anywhere near what is needed to be deadly. a person with a weak heart will requite over 0.03 amps.

Remember these numbers are only if the current passes through your heart. if you are wiping the glass in the tank and brush your shoulder against the lights and get a zap, it is highly unlikly that it would pass through your heart as the quickest path to ground is in your shoulder and out your hand to the water. now if you were cleaning with the left hand and grab the lights with your right and if the amprage is large enough you had a grounding probe, you would still probably be dead as the probe just insures that your hand is in a ground path. so in a way you have more of a chance of getting shocked by a exteranal fixture if you have a ground probe.

my opinion is to install GFIs and through the grounding probe in the garbage.

one thing to note, is GFI outlets still need to be tested ocasionaly time to time. make this a part of your normal maintenance routeens.

Steve

[Trocar61]

home depot sells singles, twin and three packs. there all about the same, I buy the fancy ones with the light that tells you if it is hooked up and working right.

Steve

Cool thanks for the info.

[mike31154]

Where does one purchase a GFI probe? and is one better then the other.

Just to clear this up a little, there is no such animal as a GFI 'probe'. You're looking for a GFI or GFCI device and these come in a number of different flavours. Probably the easiest install is to replace the electrical receptacle, usually a two outlet plug in, with a GFCI receptacle. A more expensive and probably unnecessary option is to install a GFCI circuit breaker in your electrical panel. Downside here is, they generally use up two spaces in your panel and will take out an entire circuit when they trip. A receptacle type will only take out what's plugged in to that receptacle and any circuits downstream of it, hooked up to the load side of the GFCI receptacle. Third and simplest option is to get a GFCI power bar which is simply plugged into any receptacle that's handy. It can be moved around as required. Thing to watch out for here, is that some of these must be reset manually if there's a power outage. Most, if not all GFCI receptacles will reset automatically if the power to them is interrupted and later restored. If they trip due to a fault with a component, they all need to be reset and the faulty component identified.

[Samw]

Ok, to save people from clicking the link, I'll summarize one key thing:

This is an article extolling the use of GFCI breakers. There wasn't actually an active member of aquariumpros.ca found deceased, they are saying "this could happen to you if you don't use GFCI's."


Thanks. The only reason I came into the thread was to read about the dead aquarist, not to read about GFCI. Grrr. Title needs to be changed.

[kevNnic]

i run every everything off powerbar with the trip switch on it. I use them on all my tv's and my fishtank. is that basically the same as a gfi?



http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/7/Electronics/TVsAccessories/ElectricalPowerBars/PRD~0527249P/Likewise%252B6%252BOutlet%252BValue%252BPower%252B Bar.jsp?locale=en

i's dont wants to die.. :cry:

[Milad]

You are going do die... sorry

you need GFCI outlet
http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatalogSearchResultView?D=903722&Ntt=903722&catalogId=10051&langId=-15&storeId=10051&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=112090&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


i run every everything off powerbar with the trip switch on it. I use them on all my tv's and my fishtank. is that basically the same as a gfi?



http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/7/Electronics/TVsAccessories/ElectricalPowerBars/PRD~0527249P/Likewise%252B6%252BOutlet%252BValue%252BPower%252B Bar.jsp?locale=en (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/7/Electronics/TVsAccessories/ElectricalPowerBars/PRD%7E0527249P/Likewise%252B6%252BOutlet%252BValue%252BPower%252B Bar.jsp?locale=en)

i's dont wants to die.. :cry:

[kevNnic]

aww damn! well maybe i better get one of those, is it any different to install than a normal receptacle?

[Milad]

ive never installed one but im about to within the next 7 days as I build my tank.
Im under the impression is really simple. Just make sure you turn off the power to the outlet from the box. When I was a kid, I was changing the face of an outlet and got electrocuted... it was not fun... i couldnt let go and I felt waves going through my body.

[kevNnic]

ya im going to install one here right away. i have a few friends in the trade i could always take a look in my bathroom and see how its setup. With my luck i would end up getting fried..

Thanks for the heads up!

Cheers

kevin

[rkelman]

"You are going do die... sorry"

Lol. Too bad.

[kien]

there's also this option (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=440146&postcount=103).

[banditpowdercoat]

Ya, I'm gona die!

[mike31154]

there's also this option (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=440146&postcount=103).

Nice work on the DIY GFCI extension cord. One thing though, couldn't help but notice that there did not appear to be any kind of strain relief for the cable going into the plastic box holding the GFCI receptacle. Furthermore, it's completely open. I might be wrong and you may have taken care of that, but it's not apparent in the photos. You siliconed the male plug for extra moisture protection, but the box with the GFCI is pretty much open to moisture through that opening for the cable, effectively negating the the benefit of the waterproof cover you added. Not a deal breaker but a strain relief is required by code on any cable going into or coming out of any kind of service box.

[kien]

Nice work on the DIY GFCI extension cord. One thing though, couldn't help but notice that there did not appear to be any kind of strain relief for the cable going into the plastic box holding the GFCI receptacle. Furthermore, it's completely open. I might be wrong and you may have taken care of that, but it's not apparent in the photos. You siliconed the male plug for extra moisture protection, but the box with the GFCI is pretty much open to moisture through that opening for the cable, effectively negating the the benefit of the waterproof cover you added. Not a deal breaker but a strain relief is required by code on any cable going into or coming out of any kind of service box.

you mean like this ? :biggrin:

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_9962.jpg?t=1272504442

The box also came with a strain relief clamp for the wire.

[mike31154]

Aha, there you go, I figured you may have done something, just didn't see it in your thread.

[kien]

Aha, there you go, I figured you may have done something, just didn't see it in your thread.

Nice to see that someone was paying attention. Its things like that that keep us all on our toes, so I do appreciate the comment!

[kevNnic]

definetly alot to learn, i wouldn't of thought about this until i came across this thread. Will be doing the install this weekend.