PDA

View Full Version : coppersafe in reef tank!! please helppp


egybels
04-12-2010, 01:48 AM
this morning i put coppersafe in me display tank with live rock. i thought i did my research but i guess not. is my live rock garbage now? what should i do?!?!

intarsiabox
04-12-2010, 01:57 AM
Live rock should be fine, it is corals that will perish when exposed to copper.

egybels
04-12-2010, 02:00 AM
luckily i just started this tank and dont have any corals but i do have hermits and snails how long before i can add them back?

JenniferL
04-12-2010, 02:02 AM
I thought that the live rock would absorb copper and then leech it into the water afterwards?

egybels
04-12-2010, 02:04 AM
thats what i thought! so is the live rock ruined?

corpusse
04-12-2010, 02:06 AM
IMO you should throw the rock out at this point.

I'm not sure if it would be safe for a fish only tank but it won't be safe for a reef. Inverts such as your snails and hermits would also perish they are very sensitive to copper.

If you really want to save the rock I guess you could cook it, which involves drying out the rock and washing it over and over again. Someone who's actually done it can explain it to you better if this is something you wish to pursue.

egybels
04-12-2010, 02:09 AM
damn man i just started my tank and added new fish. i have over a 100 lbs of lr.

corpusse
04-12-2010, 02:14 AM
damn man i just started my tank and added new fish. i have over a 100 lbs of lr.

If you're never going to have corals ever. It might be okay. You're still going to have to soak it out if you want to keep snails hermits or other inverts.

I know it sucks but at least you found out now before you bought 100 snails and they all dropped dead, or spent months if not years trying to figure out why you can't keep corals.

egybels
04-12-2010, 02:16 AM
its just pretty discouraging being new to this hobby and the amounts of money i keep having to waste.

MikeInToronto
04-12-2010, 02:18 AM
Your live rock is dead but that's not the problem. The problem is copper is adsorbed on calcareous substrates and is slowly released back into the water column. Fishes will be fine in the tank but inverts will never be. Some may survive for short periods of time but they will be slowly poisoned.

I'd throw away the live rock. Even if you think there is the slightest chance the copper can be removed from the rock, the cost of replacing the rock is worth your piece of mind.

I won't comment on copper adhering to glass or silicone.

I think if you want to recover the rock you have to wash with HCl and acetone and all sorts of other stuff that makes it not worth the trouble.

egybels
04-12-2010, 02:19 AM
so i need to replace my tank as well?

viperfish
04-12-2010, 02:20 AM
Problem is copper bonds with calcium carbonate, so unless some chemist can chime in and tell you a way of separating the two I would be very hesitant to use to with corals or inverts.

MikeInToronto
04-12-2010, 02:23 AM
its just pretty discouraging being new to this hobby and the amounts of money i keep having to waste.

To put things into perspective, you will likely buy a number of coral pieces at say, $40 a piece, and you will likely lose a few of them over the course of a year; maybe some fishes. This loss is probably equivalent to the cost of replacing the LR. This hobby is expensive and although it sucks to waste any money, you will find redoing your LR isn't a big deal in the grand scheme. You might even find deals in the classifieds.

For me, I'd also replace the tank after adding copper but there is debate about whether copper really does stick to glass and silicone sealant.

Edit: I speaking about coral loses in an untreated tank, i.e.: losses you'd have regardless of whether there was copper in the tank.

intarsiabox
04-12-2010, 02:43 AM
If you don't want to replace everything you can just leave it as a FOWLR set up (I thought that was your plan as this post is in the FOWL section). There are many beautiful fish out there that can make a nice display by themselves without corals (and it won't cost you an arm and a leg for coral, suppliments, reactors, etc.) Some of those fish can't be kept with corals anyway. I personally would love to set a FOWLR tank with some sort of trigger fish but don't have the space right now.

Zoaelite
04-12-2010, 03:08 AM
... Ouch, well if it makes you feel any better when I first started I wiped my biocube and all the inhabitants by adding to much sugar trying to dose a carbon source.

Live and learn, its an expensive hobby and you are taking care of living organisms so always do your research. Mind you that is kind of misleading "Copper safe" :lol:. I would chuck the rock if I were you, it might be more expensive but its just not worth the worry.
Levi

MikeInToronto
04-12-2010, 03:18 AM
If you don't want to replace everything you can just leave it as a FOWLR set up (I thought that was your plan as this post is in the FOWL section).

Unfortunately, I think the tank would be FOWR (fish only with rock) because the copper will not let anything really live on it to keep it "live".

egybels
04-12-2010, 03:38 AM
thanks for the input from everyone. sorry i posted in the wrong section. i was in a rush to get some input.

intarsiabox
04-12-2010, 03:39 AM
Unfortunately, I think the tank would be FOWR (fish only with rock) because the copper will not let anything really live on it to keep it "live".

True, but all I was getting at is that one can still have a nice display with only fish and rock. The rock will leach copper forever now though so the choice is to either throw it out or set up a "FOWR" tank. Tough choice! I looked on wetwebmedia and it sounds like the tank should still be okay to use as a reef tank if you choose. Bob Fenner even mentions several times that copper is used a preservative in a lot of marine foods with no ill effects just as a point of interest.

mark
04-12-2010, 04:20 AM
how much coppersafe was added?

egybels
04-12-2010, 04:25 AM
around 18 caps as recommended.

egybels
04-12-2010, 05:21 AM
so say if i were to start up a fowlr predator tank the fish would be fine? what would i do about algae and stuff if i dont have inverts?

Madreefer
04-12-2010, 02:32 PM
I've had a tank for 9 years. For the first 3 years it was fish only and I treated with Coppersafe the recommended amount more than a few times. I have done many tank upgrades since than and still have every peice of rock from day one. My tank is now a reef tank with anemone, about a dozen mixed kind of shrimp, some clams, starfish, crabs, SPS, LPS zoo's etc. I don't think I'm wrong to say that the Coppersafe eventually goes away.

kien
04-12-2010, 04:45 PM
so say if i were to start up a fowlr predator tank the fish would be fine? what would i do about algae and stuff if i dont have inverts?

There are a lot of great maintenance fish that can help deal with algae :-)

christyf5
04-12-2010, 06:45 PM
Personally, I would do a massive waterchange and use Cuprisorb (http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/product-info.php?product_ID=sc-cur0250) which may help remove copper from the tank and any leaching from the rock. You may have to run it for quite awhile before seeing very low or zero levels.