View Full Version : the bday giveth, and the bday taketh away...
smokinreefer
10-21-2003, 03:05 AM
its a sad day in my reeftank...
one of my multibar angels has passed away...
it was something i kinda expected, but i thought he'd pull through...
i believe he just wasnt 100% to begin with.
it was the smaller of the 2 angels, and was tattered up a bit when i got him. he was in a bit rough shape, slightly tattered, missing his first spine on his back.
i dont regret buying him, it was my choice to buy him right way, i didnt flinch, i didnt ask to have it held for a few days. i decided to buy him, and that was my choice.
i do regret not being able to get him to come around.
i remember seeing him and the other multibar both nestled together in the corner, under the cover of a large soft coral. and thought to myself, if they can make it through the first few weeks, then it should be clear sailing from there. there was no aggression displayed yet between the 2 of them.
they sure did look nice together.
so tonight, i mourn the loss of 1 of 2 multibars. and i pray that the surviving angel pulls through.
:cry:
Sorry to hear Shao. I know there was nothing you could have done. I saw the system where the fish came from and it was not in the best of shape. I don't know how it looked on the day you were there but when I was there, the water was cloudy and several dead fish could be seen. The odds were stacked against it.
Sorry to hear that shao. If it had any chance you were a good choice in trying to have it come around with your experience and large mature reef tank. :cry:
kuatto
10-21-2003, 01:55 PM
Sorry to hear. :cry: I hope the other one is doing fine.
Son Of Skyline
10-21-2003, 03:04 PM
Sorry to hear it bud :sad:
How are your other bday gifts doing?
smokinreefer
10-22-2003, 01:33 AM
i just spotted the other angel, and it is about to die.
something is not right here. :cry:
the clam and the pipefish are doing awesome though. :smile:
Do you think they were cyanide caught?
smokinreefer
10-22-2003, 01:46 AM
i dont know...
i just peeled the little guy off of my tunze...
upon closer inspection, this guy doesnt look as good as i thought he did
(aside from the being dead part)
although he is thick in the midsection along his body, the upper part of his body isnt filled in, as a fat healthy angel should be.
i guess i have learned, when buying fish to be a little more precautious and alot less gung ho. :frown:
EmilyB
10-22-2003, 02:39 AM
maybe taking pics of them in the net ain't such a good idea either..... :rolleyes:
smokinreefer
10-22-2003, 06:50 AM
are you serious?
i had one of them in the net for <20s, and that was the healthier looking one.
sumpfinfishe
10-22-2003, 07:21 PM
Hey Shao,
Sorry for your loss :sad:
IMO angels are one of the most easy stressed fish out there. From all the diving and snorkeling that I have done, I have noticed that it's always the angels that spook the first. There are more sensitive in there own natural enviroment than any other fish I have encountered. So that's gotta say something about there care in a tank.
I also have to agree with Deb.
IMO taking photo shoots of your new fish in a net or even in a pail for that matter is not a wise action. Your fish is already going through Hell :evil:, a third or fourth time by being brought home to yet another tank, there's no need to add to more stress by taking photo's and worst of all exposing it to the air for longer periods than needed-they have gills not lungs. I also just read an article on how fish net exposure may be responsible for "popeye" and some gill infections. I think it was in this months Reefkeeping online.
Sorry Shao if this sounds like I'm attacking you personaly-because I'm not!
I just think we all(myself included) need to be reminded once in awhile that reefing is a delicate living hobby.
cheers, Rich
I doubt that the 10 seconds it takes to take a pic of the fish killed it. I bought a fish (small fish for my nano) from the same system as that angel a day before Shao and it also died in 2 days. There was something seriously wrong with the system that it came from (the cloudy water and dead fishes in the tanks were 2 indications. I decided to buy the one that was moving, although the guy there almost scooped me up the one that wasn't moving). So yes, crucify us for buying fish from a bad system. In Shao's case, the dead fishes in those tanks were probably removed by the time he got there.
AJ_77
10-22-2003, 09:43 PM
So yes, crucify us for buying fish from a bad system.
Feeling a little dramatic, Sam? :confused:
We've all had bad purchases, and fish deaths are never easy to take. Rich's "gentle reminder" is still welcome, IMO.
So yes, crucify us for buying fish from a bad system.
Feeling a little dramatic, Sam? :confused:
We've all had bad purchases, and fish deaths are never easy to take. Rich's "gentle reminder" is still welcome, IMO.
Um, yeah, I've taken pictures of my fish in nets before. :lol: It was my way of suggesting that the fish would have died even if its picture wasn't taken and that we could look at other factors. When you buy the fish, it is netted, so netting it when you get home isn't much different.
EmilyB
10-22-2003, 10:04 PM
Hey, I've got no trouble admitting I treat fish as pets, crazy as some of you might think.... :rolleyes: :razz:
EmilyB would hate it if I held her underwater to take her picture...... :lol:
I just fail to see the point in stressing a fish any more than necessary, and Rich put it very eloquently.
I shouldn't have (and didn't really intend to have) implied it killed the fish.
And I love eating baked salmon wellington, popcorn shrimp and tuna sashimi.
:lol:
Oh - And I also wouldn't hold a pet's head under water.
Sorry for your guys loss. I also bought a fish from that system last week, mine lasted about 20mins after lights on the next day and the was no exposure to air. I will never buy another fish from that system, no matter how bad I must have it. I have almost 100% sucess rate buying fish elsewhere and I'm like 1 for 4 at this place, and the one survival was a Tomato Clown, probably one of the hardiest fish out there.
Aquattro
10-22-2003, 10:35 PM
To brighten things up here, EmB just made her 2000th post!! Wow :lol:
christyf5
10-22-2003, 10:55 PM
http://www.kurts-smilies.de/trink4.gif
smokinreefer
10-23-2003, 02:10 AM
mmkay...
while i can take constructive critism and i am all for opinions and experiences...(and i am not taking anything personally, nor do i feel attacked :mrgreen:)but,
i can totally understand your views on the taking pics of the fish in the net, but do you really think that that caused undue stress on the fish?
being in the net an extra 20 seconds.
for 1 thing, i took pics of only 1 fish in the net, yet the other fish died first.
whats up with that?
perhaps from now on, after the fish is acclimated, i should (and when i say i should, i really mean we all should)use a container and scoop the fish out of the acclimating pail, submerge that into the tank and release it, as to avoid anymore air contact than necessary, is that what everyone should be doing?
while i can appreciate the point that is trying to be made, there is a point where things are a tad extreme, perhaps i am overreacting, or perhaps it is others who are overreacting. :neutral:
now, i do not profess myself to be a fishkeeping guru, but i do feel quite confident with my experience, having said that, the next time i introduce a new fish to my system, i will take your concerns into consideration.
To brighten things up here, EmB just made her 2000th post!! Wow :lol:
Go..Go..Go Em, it's your Birthday!!! We gonna sip Skimate like it's your Birthday!!! :rolleyes: :lol:
perhaps from now on, after the fish is acclimated, i should (and when i say i should, i really mean we all should)use a container and scoop the fish out of the acclimating pail, submerge that into the tank and release it, as to avoid anymore air contact than necessary, is that what everyone should be doing?
Actually that is what I do. I also let them leave the container when they are ready to, which sometimes isn't exactly right away :rolleyes: .
sumpfinfishe
10-23-2003, 07:56 AM
Shao and fellow reefers,
I by no means consider myself an expepert reefer as 6 years is just a "tip of the reef" in our great hobby. I simply want to express my opinion on the use of nets and how long a fish should be out of water.
I have in the past used a net from time to time, however I try to use a container of some sort whenever possible. The reason being, fish live in water and we humans live on land-it's as simple as that. If transfering fish by means of water is less stressful than the use of nets, then that's what we should all try to practice.
As I said in my previous reply, I had read an article in the Sept. issue of Reefkeeping online. This article shed some new light on some other reasons, why we as reefers should try to avoid the use of nets whenever possible. I have pasted the link here for anyone who has not read that article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-09/tb/feature/index.htm
I also stated that my reply was by no means a personal attack on Shoa, which is also true. I know Shao is a dedicated, careing reefer.
I guess what I'm trying to point out, is that I learned a few things last month when I read that article :biggrin: . Nets are not just cruel and stressful to fish, but they can also inflict injuries that can cause life threatening illnesses or cause permanent damage to a fishes body. After reading this article, it gave me some new thoughts and ideas in which I can use in the future to lighten the amount of stress that I will put on a fish when introducing into my reef :mrgreen:
cheers, Rich
smokinreefer
10-23-2003, 02:58 PM
no worries rich, i didnt take offense to any of the comments. :smile:
it is so true that you learn new things all the time in this hobby, and that helps us all become better hobbyists.
i try to take everything in stride and respect and consider other peoples comments and suggestions, i suppose had this info been presented in another thread, as oppossed to being stated in my fishies obituary :frown: i may have been more receptive. though i know it is not a personal attack, but from the outside looking in,(even though this was not the intension) it does insinuate that my use of the net may be what contributed to their deaths. (which i still dont believe, but of course that is only my opinion, from my experience)
yes, i will try not to use a net in the future when applicable, as i do have the fishes best interest in mind when i take them home.
do i think i wll have better survival rate on new fish from now, definitely, because i will be more diligent in my selection of fish before purchasing, not necessarily because of a netless fish transfer. :mrgreen:
happy reefing! and fish keeping!
sumpfinfishe
10-23-2003, 04:53 PM
Oh Yeah, and congrats to EmB for her 2000 post! :eek: :mrgreen: :eek:
cheers, Rich
Aquattro
10-23-2003, 05:01 PM
it does insinuate that my use of the net may be what contributed to their deaths. (which i still dont believe, but of course that is only my opinion, from my experience)
Shao, many times I have had fish out of water lying on a wet towel for periods of up to 10 minutes. None ever died from it or even looked upset 30 seconds after being put back in the tank. Your fish certainly didn't die from being netted.
I do agree though that nets are more likely to cause injury, and I do try to use bags or containers to transfer most of my fish.
Bob I
10-23-2003, 05:11 PM
it does insinuate that my use of the net may be what contributed to their deaths. (which i still dont believe, but of course that is only my opinion, from my experience)
Shao, many times I have had fish out of water lying on a wet towel for periods of up to 10 minutes. None ever died from it or even looked upset 30 seconds after being put back in the tank. Your fish certainly didn't die from being netted.
I do agree though that nets are more likely to cause injury, and I do try to use bags or containers to transfer most of my fish.
:B-fly:
Aquattro
10-23-2003, 05:18 PM
:B-fly:
Bob, I think you need some ZZZ's :razz:
Bob I
10-23-2003, 05:28 PM
Remember the person who has reached the lofty plateau of 2000 posts? That was reached mainly by publishing smilies. Thought I would try the same. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Aquattro
10-23-2003, 05:34 PM
Remember the person who has reached the lofty plateau of 2000 posts? That was reached mainly by publishing smilies. Thought I would try the same. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
:razz:
AJ_77
10-23-2003, 05:58 PM
:eek:
Aquattro
10-23-2003, 06:00 PM
:confused:
Buccaneer
10-23-2003, 06:19 PM
:eek:
Racking them up Alan ? :rolleyes: :razz:
Delphinus
10-23-2003, 06:39 PM
Sheesh, nobody said anything when Brad or I got 2000 posts...
Oops, what I really meant to post was ...
:rolleyes:
AJ_77
10-23-2003, 07:13 PM
:eek:
Racking them up Alan ? :rolleyes: :razz:
Steve = :evil:
:razz:
:biggrin:
(does that count for one post, or three?)
Buccaneer
10-23-2003, 07:14 PM
Sheesh, nobody said anything when Brad or I got 2000 posts...
Oops, what I really meant to post was ...
:rolleyes:
OK OK ... quit whineing :rolleyes: :razz:
CONGRATULATIONS ON OVER 2000 POSTS
:razz: :biggrin:
christyf5
10-23-2003, 08:33 PM
http://www.kurts-smilies.de/trink4.gif
blaster
10-23-2003, 08:54 PM
where were these fish purchased?
Aquattro
10-23-2003, 09:19 PM
http://www.kurts-smilies.de/trink4.gif
I think Christy is going to hit top poster with nothing but drunk smileys!!
Remember the person who has reached the lofty plateau of 2000 posts? That was reached mainly by publishing smilies. Thought I would try the same. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I thought it was mainly reached by selling stuff in the Buy&Sell forum :rolleyes: :mrgreen: :lol:
Oh yeah, here's one more to boot 0X: .
Quinn
10-23-2003, 10:33 PM
Clocking in at an amazing 3.53 posts per day, I think that makes me the most prolific poster on Canreef (or post whore). :razz:
Aquattro
10-23-2003, 11:15 PM
Sure wish Shao would ask a mod to clsoe this thread...... :rolleyes:
Buccaneer
10-23-2003, 11:36 PM
Or we could debate using nets or not using nets till we are blue in the face and keep this thread going and going and going and going :razz:
smokinreefer
10-24-2003, 01:26 AM
hey brad,
i think this therad has ran its course...
can you close it please?
:BIG:
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