Lighting setup

[Lofus]

I'm starting to think about upgrading to MH. I've a 72 bowfront that is currently FOWLR except for a hitchiker zoo.

The plan is to start into the corrals and a BTA or LTA.

Since the tank is not that deep, I'm thinking 250w HQI but I'm not sure what I need to put everything together. Anyone have a similar set-up?

Jim

[Lofus]

Lots of views but no opinions?

[Aquattro]

Are you asking for opinions or people with similar setups? The latter isn't too common.
Are you thinking about the DE HQI setup?

[Samw]

The least hassle for DE would be to get a pendant I think and put it inside the canopy.

[robbyville]

Hi Jim,

Do you have a canopy that is able to house the new bulbs an appropriate distance from the water? If so then there are many options for DIY kits. I don't like to deal with wiring so here is a list of what I purchased for my 2x250w 10k system, that I screwed into my canopy. This assumes that I understood your request for what was necessary!

Dual PFO 250w Tar ballast (Cheap but efficient)
2x 8ft quick disconnect cords for the above wired to Mogul sockets (I did not want to wire)
2x250w 10k venture bulbs
4ft long cheap reflector
2x Icecap variable speed fans.

I purchased everything except the fans on ebay and was very happy with the results. I paid $185USD for the ballast, wiring, sockets, and reflector and an additional $105USD for both bulbs combined. With exchange, shipping, taxes, etc the entire package without fans came to about $500.

I purchased the fans at J&L, and simply screwed everything into my canopy.

If you do not intend to put the bulbs into a canopy then I typed this for naught! At that point some of the prebuilt pendants are a great (Albeit expensive) way to go!

HTH,

Rob

[Lofus]

Thanks. I was thinking of the DE HQI setup. I've not built the canopy for the tank yet since I want to sort out what I'm going to be putting into it first.

Rob, do the mogul sockets fit the large screw in bulbs?

Thanks,

[Aquattro]

J&L has the DE HQI setup. For the dual complete package, Allen quoted me $1001.00. This wa swith the dual ballast. Someone mentioned that I might want two single ballasts in case one needed warranty work or something. Then you'd still have a light running while the other ballast was in the shop. This was with the AB bulbs(same price as Ushios).

[Delphinus]

I don't want to comment much on the DE's but if you're looking for ideas for 72g bowfront canopies you can check out this thread where I took some pictures of the one I built:
http://www.canreef.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3547&highlight=

[robbyville]

Yep, the mogul sockets are the large screw in type that many MH systems use. I like them for their simplicity and cost effectiveness.

Don't get me wron, there are some beautiful new systems out there. For me it was more a matter of the standard ballasts, bulbs, etc. being reasonable to get into in terms of cost, and maintenance. TAR ballasts are reasonably priced and simple to run. Electronic ballasts are compact, cool running, and efficient but many say that they really do not save you much in terms of costs of energy used due to their higher prices.

I look at the TAR ballasts and figure that they replace my heater in the room so I'm really saving money!

Good luck,

Rob

[robbyville]

Hey Tony,

I love that hood! Out of my own curiosity, what caulking did you have to do? I recently finished my hood and constantly worry that it's going to fall apart, or that I didn't seal it well enough, etc!

Thanks,

Rob

[Samw]

The least hassle for DE would be to get a pendant I think and put it inside the canopy.

Oh, if you don't mind mail ordering like I did, 2 complete DE pendants (with 10K bulbs and icecap HQI ballasts) can be had now for about $900 Cdn total shipped. Then you just install the pendents inside the canopy. Pretty hassle-free other than drilling the pendent onto the canopy. Don't need to worry about setting up endcaps, reflectors, UV shield, etc.

[StirCrazy]

or you could go with two M80 ballast (300.00) and two radiums 250 watt bulbs 260.00 and 100.00 worth of wire, reflector and sockets.

Steve

[Samw]

or you could go with two M80 ballast (300.00) and two radiums 250 watt bulbs 260.00 and 100.00 worth of wire, reflector and sockets.

Steve


But how will he install the UV shield for his DE bulbs?

[Aquattro]

DE is the best way to go for 250w, IMO. The intesity rivals or surpasses 400w, and the power consumption is significantly less. When in the pendants, you avoid the burnt eyeball syndrome while working in the tank and temp is less of a concern.

[StirCrazy]

DE is the best way to go for 250w, IMO. The intesity rivals or surpasses 400w, and the power consumption is significantly less.

where did you get that from? there is no power difference between a DE and a SE bulb and it has been showen already that over a 2x2 square a SE will through more intensitity over a larger area. the "ONLY advantage to a DE bulbs over a SE (remeber I am talking about both being HQI bulbs as you can get them in both se and de) is the actual space it consumes. as for heat if you have both in a enclosed hood you will also get the same amount, but the DE will be able to put less heat into the water depending on how it is used.. if it is suspended you will get less and if you cool the canopy you will be able to lower the temp with out lowering bulb temp.

basicly if you don;t have the room go DE.

Steve

[Delphinus]

Hey Tony,

I love that hood! Out of my own curiosity, what caulking did you have to do? I recently finished my hood and constantly worry that it's going to fall apart, or that I didn't seal it well enough, etc!

Thanks,

Rob

Thanks for the comments.. I'm really happy with the hood. Basically the frame is held together with both screws and carpenter's glue on the seams so I don't really worry about it falling apart.

I caulked the inside corners basically and that's about it. Just for kicks I also caulked the door frames (the curved pieces that hold the panels together), but there was probably no real reason to do so other than for looks.

The only thing that is starting to show now about 3/4 of a year into its use is the paint that is on a spot near one of the halides shows a little bit of UV weathering, but other than a few crackles in the paint surface that I might fill in with a second coat of paint at some point, it's not really anything (I think) to really worry about.

[Aquattro]

Steve, if you'd stop being so argumentative and read the post, I said the DE rivalled the output of a 400w while consuming less power. I hope I don't have to explain why the 250 takes less than a 400 :confused:
The pendants also direct less heat towards the surface of the water compared to my 400 SE bulbs.

Basically, if you want a good bulb in a clean package with the same end results as 400w for less power consumption, go DE.

[Lofus]

My concern is more for space and heat. As it stands right now my tank will heat to 29C if I keep the doors to the cabinet closed (where the sump and pump are). This is with a 3 T8 tube NO fluorescent canopy and glass cover on the tank.

Then the canopy with the lights goes on the glass top will come off. I'm leaning towards the DE only because I want to limit my canopy size.

Jim

btw what exactly does SE and DE stand for?

[Buccaneer]

SE = single ended bulb
DE = double ended bulb

Cheers

[Aquattro]

Single End and Double End

[Delphinus]

Heat is a serious issue with halides and frankly whether you go SE/mogul or DE is not going to solve any heat issues without some kind of thought towards that issue in the first place.

Evaporation is the key to economical heat control and is accomplished very simply with a fan or two. But evaporation means more topup, and more humidity in your house. Another minus is that if you cheap out of the fan, you will hear fan noise.

For heat control that doesn't involve increased evaporation you can always look at a chiller. Not terribly economical though.

I go with the fans myself. It is amazing what difference a small fan blowing onto your sump can make in terms of reducing your temp spikes.

[Lofus]

I've already got humidity control in the house for the hardwood floor so a little more wont hurt (unless it takes me up to 80%!)

I was thinking of a Cdn Tire clip-on fan in the sump to see what sort of cooling effects I could get from it.

[Quinn]

I use one of the Canadian Tire clip-on fans (6") over my sump, along with two fans in my canopy, and my temperature fluctuates by about 2.5F, maxing out at about 84F each day. I didn't think out my canopy properly, but I'm satisfied with the way things are going for now.

[Lofus]

What problems did you run into on the canopy TeeVee?

[kari]

I'm using one 250watt SE 10k Ushio bulb and one 250watt DE 10k Ushio bulb. By eyeball comparison, the DE is kicking SE ass. However the differences in reflectors and ballasts used on these two bulbs I believe make a considerable change in output aswell.

[StirCrazy]

Kari are you running them both on HQI ballasts?

Steve

[kari]

Kari are you running them both on HQI ballasts?

Steve

No I am not Steve. The DE is powered by an IceCap electronic and the SE by a HD special. Also the DE is housed in a Reef Optix reflector where as the other one has a polished aluminum (DIY) reflector. Both mounted at the same ht.

[Samw]

Yeah, what I would really be interested to know is what kind of loss or gain I would get if I kept the same ballast (IceCap HQI) and switched to a PFO reflector and SE bulb. What do you think Steve? Have you done this kind of test before with your Par Meter?

[StirCrazy]

What do you think Steve? Have you done this kind of test before with your Par Meter?

nope, right now I am trying to find old bulbs of different types to test there out put on a HQI ballast. It would be a interesting test though sence I have baseline numbers for your set up new.

I have a garage now so I do have the space to set up a testing area whare I can run a bulb whenever with out having to move it off the table to eat :mrgreen:

I am planning some other tests with my AB bulbs when I get new bulbs to replace them. I want to determin the effects of various thickness glass and different thickness of water on the out put of the bulb. I can do the later with a spare 20 gal tank I have sitting around. I will just add water in 1 inch incraments and take new readings, but I want to do it with both fresh water and salt water from my tank to see if there is any difference in its filtering ability because of the salt.

Steve

[Quinn]

What problems did you run into on the canopy TeeVee?

I started out with two 3.5" fans blowing in at the level of the reflectors and bulbs and holes on the other side for output. I figured this would be good enough to remove excess heat radiating off the top of the lighting hardware. The fans were wired in circuit. I soon discovered that these two fans were providing too much air and the output holes couldn't handle it, backpressure was building up and slowing the fans down. Plus my temperature was too high.

So I drilled another two holes on the other side and wired two more fans up there. All four fans on the same circuit - they wouldn't start. Thought I had a defective unit, so removed one. The three worked, but not at full velocity. Somehow being wired in circuit was splitting power across all the fans. So I swapped them to parallel - and realized they were powerful enough, I could have done with just one on each side. So now I have just two fans running, but big holes on both sides of the canopy that I haven't bothered to fill where I could put more. The fans are also too high as I am now realizing.

If I could redo it, I would mount the fans lower, so that they are blowing under the hardware, and just one on each side. Then I would put two inside the canopy at a 45 degree angle blowing at the water to help cool it down. That way I could get rid of the fan in my sump.

[robbyville]

As mentioned above, the biggest thing I learned when designing my canopy was:

Keep the back open as much as possible, even if it means more light splash on the back wall

Keep the fan holes bottom of center, you don't need to cool the bulbs but draw out the air below and cool water

Have both fans blowing cool air in, and let the heat dispel from the rear (No pun intended) :biggrin:

My canopy is not perfect but even in the heat of this summer with no air conditioning I was able to keep my tank at the highest 80deg but mostly 78. This is with a 60 gal with no remote sump. On extremely hot days I also ran a clip on fan from the back of the canopy. If you have a larger tank with remote sump I think that you will have minimal problems with heat if that is your main concern!

[Lofus]

So My current plan is:

2 x 250W HQI PFO ballast
DE sockets

2 x 250 Ushio DE bulbs.

Then a coupld of NO Actinics on either side.

I have to design the canopy around the lights so I'm thinking open back with some shutter blinds to keep the light splash down and a couple of 4" fans on either end to cool things down.

What do you think?

[Delphinus]

Sounds like a keen plan to me...

[kari]

Don't forget to add an UV shield to the canopy plan if you are thinking DIY.

[robbyville]

Sounds great! Looking forward to seeing your design for the canopy! One other suggestion that I would make is to make sure that your door openings are plenty wide for maintenance without having to remove the canopy and without burning your arm on the bulbs. My door openings are 9.5". The other thing that I'm happy we did was to have overlapping door flaps and inset doors. We did this to avoid light leak from the front, even though I have so much of it from the back (open)

Good luck and have fun!

Rob