White spots on my new Naso?!

[newreefer_59]

Just purchased a Naso Tang on Saturday and noticed 2 white spots just above the right eye on Sunday. Is this a possible parasite or a disease? I did not quarantine the fish before letting him in....he is eating well and seems to get along with my yellow tang.

Any thoughts? The other 'spots' on the fish are from passing debris or food in the tank. The worrysome spots are above the right eye.

[Delphinus]

Unmistakable I'm afraid. Your fish has skin/gill flukes. It's not too bad at the moment but you need to treat him with Prazipro.

It's pretty much a given nowadays that, in particular tangs and angels, should be assumed to come with flukes. It's my opinion that everyone should have a bottle of Prazipro (or Praziquantel powder) on hand.

The good news is that it's treatable. The bad news is that if it is NOT treated, it can get into their gills, and will then likely be fatal. And it can spread to your other fish. So treatment, is, in my opinion "mandatory."

Prazipro is about as reef safe as you can get. I did lose my abalone during a praziquantel treatment but it's possible that he was on his way out anyhow (he was 5 years old) so I'm not sure if it was related or not. However, all my corals, all my clams, all my other snails, all my fish - all survived the treatement. The tank did look like crap for a week with film algae on the glass going out of control, so it's not a painless week, but it's a worthwhile pain to endure for the sake of your fish.

I will dig up some threads you can read for further reading and post back when I have them. Good luck!

[Delphinus]

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57604&

I typed in a really nice summary in this thread, here's a link to the post:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=493343&postcount=3

Actually .. what the heck. I'll copy the whole post again for your benefit:

I immediately suspect skin and gill flukes. Angels in particular are very susceptible to them and the more I am learning about them myself, the more I am realizing how prevalent they are in many systems, private tanks, LFS and distributor tanks. Odds are VERY good you have them.

Faded colour, hazy or spotted eyes, and frayed fins are 3 of the classic symptoms. There are other symptoms as well but they do not have to display all symptoms.

The good news is it is treatable if caught early enough, and the medication is safe enough for use in a reef tank, although it will be hard on your tank, things will pull through.

Here is some additional reading for you:
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57604&highlight=fluke (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=57604&highlight=fluke)

This thread has been a real eye opener for me.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260067& (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260067&)
I'll summarize some key points:

The obvious symptoms:

1) Fish twitching the head side to side once in a while like if wanted to shake something off his head.

2) Discolored blotches of skin (Most people think this is velvet or some bacterial infection and misdiagnose it with antibiotics)

3) Frayed fins or tail.

4) Sudden loss of appetite. Fish was fine yesterday but today it's not eating at all.

5) Cloudy eye(s)

6) Rapid breathing


The treatment is with a pharmaceutical called praziquantal. You can get it as a powdered form in the bulk as Praziquantel, or in hobbyist packaging in the product name "Praz-tastic" (both made by National Fish Pharmaceuticals, more info here: http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products4.html (http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/products4.html) {scroll down to about 1/2 way}) .. or in liquid form "Prazipro" (made by Hikari, more info here: http://uskoi.com/prazipro.htm (http://uskoi.com/prazipro.htm) ). If you can't find any locally, check with pond suppliers as it is commonly used to treat flukes on koi as well.

Flukes are a flatworm. You do need to act on this as once they move into the gills of a fish the fish will stop eating and death can become imminent.

You can try a FW dip in the meantime (match temperature and pH, some good tips for "how to" in that reefcentral link I posted above), the flukes will fall off and will be visible to the human eye ... however bear in mind that this is only a temporary measure as it will not get any free floating flukes in the tank, fluke eggs, or flukes that have spread to other hosts (ie., your other fish).

If you use the powdered form (it is stronger), you first have to dissolve it in vodka as it is insoluble in water. This makes it harder to use but it is a stronger dose. Prazipro on the other hand may be weaker but it is already in liquid form so easier to use.

In a bad infestation you will have to do more than one treatment one week apart.

Good luck. As you can tell from the first link I posted I have recently went through this myself. The good news is that after treatment my fish are recovering, so I can attest to the effectiveness. I decided to treat my whole tank as it had escalated quite badly before I realized what had happened and all my fish were at risk.

[Leah]

Len,

So sorry you have to go through this too. :twised: But at least you caught it early enough.

Hope it all goes well and things clear up soon....keep us posted.

Leah

[Delphinus]

Sorry for posting again but I had one more thought to share. I noticed you're local to me (well, sort of anyhow). FWIW, I got the Praziquantel powder from Red Coral, and the Prazipro liquid from Gold Aquariums.

The Praziquantel is a powder which is not dissolvable in water. You have to predissolve it in ethyl alcohol ("vodka"). You have to mix for a long time. I mixed for 5 minutes and even still a goodly portion of it didn't dissolve and went into the tank as white powder.

Prazipro on the other hand is already a liquid and thus ready to dose. Just follow the instructions and you're set.

On the flipside, the praziquantel powder is more a concentrated form of the pharmaceutical. So in a bad case the powder may be better, in a mild case such as yours, save yourself some hassle and go with the liquid.

If you read through the whole first thread I linked to (Christy's thread), near the end you'll see a before and after set of pictures of my tang. The difference is astounding.

I'm never not having Prazipro on hand again! Everyone should have a bottle in their "tank stuff drawer" IMO.

[newreefer_59]

Just to be clear, I don't see any other symptoms other than the 2 white dots on his forehead. Eyes look fine as is the appetite and does not appear lethargic in any way (just a tad camera shy)

I contacted the LFS where I got it and they are looking at it as well.......

Will keep you posted:)

[Delphinus]

Are you sure there aren't the same two dots on the other side?

I'm looking at other Naso pictures and I notice similar spots on just about all of them (symmetrical).

If it's just one side then I still think flukes. If both sides have it then it might just be a feature of Naso tangs.

:neutral: I don't know now!

[newreefer_59]

But the spots I am referring to are the 2 very small dots directly over the eye on the yellow part on the forehead.

[christyf5]

I think Tony might be looking at the two large pores, they can certainly be mistaken for giant flukes. I do see what you're talking about above the eye though, don't discount them thats for sure. I would certainly keep an eye on them. Tangs can be pretty bad for both flukes and ick. If it is flukes you will likely see them escalate in the next few days. There will be "rough patches" on the fish that look like mucous or frayed scales. Ick will look exactly like that, little white dots and I've found usually will go away on its own if the fish is eating well and not stressed.

FWIW, I'm with Tony, prazipro is a good thing to have on hand in your fishtank medicine arsenal. As for the ick, make sure your tang continues to eat and try to incorporate some garlic extract/garlic into the food if possible.

[plutoniumJoe]

My naso is healthy as can be and has the same spots. I wouldn't worry about it, it is natural.

[bvlester]

I have used prazi-pro and it works follow the instructions do the full 7 day treatment that had the best results. you will have to keep the dose up over the treatment I did run my skimmer but just to ariate the water I did not let it skimm har to do but not imposible. or you will have to run a air pump and a airstone.

Bill

Sorry for posting again but I had one more thought to share. I noticed you're local to me (well, sort of anyhow). FWIW, I got the Praziquantel powder from Red Coral, and the Prazipro liquid from Gold Aquariums.

The Praziquantel is a powder which is not dissolvable in water. You have to predissolve it in ethyl alcohol ("vodka"). You have to mix for a long time. I mixed for 5 minutes and even still a goodly portion of it didn't dissolve and went into the tank as white powder.

Prazipro on the other hand is already a liquid and thus ready to dose. Just follow the instructions and you're set.

On the flipside, the praziquantel powder is more a concentrated form of the pharmaceutical. So in a bad case the powder may be better, in a mild case such as yours, save yourself some hassle and go with the liquid.

If you read through the whole first thread I linked to (Christy's thread), near the end you'll see a before and after set of pictures of my tang. The difference is astounding.

I'm never not having Prazipro on hand again! Everyone should have a bottle in their "tank stuff drawer" IMO.

[saltwaterseahorses]

hope you and your fish make it through smoothly! :biggrin: :lol: :mrgreen: :neutral: :razz: :redface: :smile: :surprise: :wink:

[untamed]

Well... I certainly wouldn't be dosing my tank with medication of any sort based on what I can see in that photo. The largest white spots nearer the tip of the nose are normal. Beyond that, anything else that I can see looks very small.

As for ich, I have plenty of experience living with that and while my Acanthurus tangs seem to show symptoms commonly, my naso tangs seem completely immune to it. (if it IS in their gills, it doesn't seem to bother them) Naso "tangs" are pretty different than most other "tangs".

Here's a comparison shot of mine... (sorry, I guess that shot is kind of blurry)
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r118/untamed_photos/Fish%20pictures/IMG_1560.jpg