New to marine tanks, need some help...

[marvinsae]

so i use to collect fresh water fish but i stopped about five years ago. i've decided i want to start a marine tank and have been doing some research for about a week and this is what i have so far.

i plan on starting up a 65 gallon reef tank (i was advised a marine tank should be at least 18 inches thick) with a 40 gallon sump. in this sump i will have live rock, a protein skimmer, heater and a pump and all that. so i've been told i need about 20-40 gph per 1 gallon i have in my tank. so that would work out to be about 1300-2600 gph flow and i can add power heads to help boost this? would the sump, live rock in the tank, and live sand be sufficient enough for filtration? as i stated earlier i will also have a protein skimmer in the sump. all of thise equipment i will be buying second hand for about 250...but i dont think that includes lighting

also, with lightin i will need around 5 watts per gallon but more if i want to grow other corals such as clams. so i'm thinkin maybe 6x54w t-5 lights or 8x54w lights. metal halides are a bit too costly for me at the moment. my question is would 8x54 lights be too much or would 6x54 be sufficient to grow any coral i want?

now i know that when introducing new fish i shouldn't put too much in at once or else the ammonia level could be dangerous. but, what about reef janitors? do they effect the levels? what's a good set up for reef janitors? i'm intersted in starfish, blood shrimp, possibly some hermit crabs also. which are the safest that won't harm my coral?

is there anything else that i may be missing? i haven't been able to read up on much additives yet either. would someone be able to shed some light on that?

[marvinsae]

few other things...is salt water really corrosive to dry wall because im gonna be having it sit up against a wall maybe on laminate flooring

[Fishward]

You're on the right track.. keep reading and ask as many questions as you need to. lots of extremely helpful people on here.

I run a 6 bulb T5 and if you want some confirmation that it'll be enough for a 65 gallon tank, have a look at Fishytime's tank journal. he also runs 6 bulb T5s. unless you want to keep stuff below more that about 20 inches of water, 6 T5s above it is usually A-OK.

I wouldnt worry about the laminate floor or Drywalll, just make sure you have good ventilation in the room you have it in, and try not to spill water.

get a skimmer rated for at least 1.5 times your tank volume. and some sort of mechanical filtration (ie. filter sock) is a good idea so long as you can commit to cleaning it regularly.

supplements are a whole other question and just searching "calcium"" or "alkalinity" in the forums will get you lots of information. golden rule is: if you dont test for it, dont dose it.

[marvinsae]

awesome thanks for the quick reply...

so what exactly is a filter sock? like a canister filter?
and you were saying a skimmer rated 1.5 times the volume, now is that the 65gallons or the 65+40gallons

[Fishward]

filter sock is pretty much just a sock of some sort (some people use pantyhose)(official ones available at your LFS) that your tank drain will flow through in your sump. catches all the big chunks, fish poop, extra food, etc.

skimmer should be based on total water volume. so if you have a 65 gallon tank, 40 gal sump (25 gallons water) minus 10-15 gallons of space for rock, you'll want a skimmer rated for at least 80 gallons, 100 would be nice.

[MMAX]

Any type of livestock will effect your ammonia levels. Get yourself some snails for your clean up crew also.

[BlueAbyss]

A marine tank doesn't have to be 18" thick... I run a 10 gallon planted reef. The live rock goes into the display tank with the sand, the sump is for things like the heater, protein skimmer etc. You want ~10x turnover or lower through the sump (which for a 65 gallon tank, if that's what you decide you want, is around 650 gph or lower). Someone mentioned a filter sock, it goes over the inlet to the sump (where the water from the overflow enters the sump). You can boost your circulation in the display tank with powerheads, as you mentioned... choose something with a nice wide flow, you'll likely want a couple (or more) of them to get some nice turbulent currents flowing around the rock. Skimmers should be rated for TOTAL tank volume, so for a 65 gallon DT and a 40 gallon sump you would want a skimmer rated for 100 gallons or higher.

Now, as far as lighting, don't go by watts per gallon (it's terribly inaccurate). Well, actually I suppose as long as you have more than 4 T5HO bulbs or over a 250W metal halide, you can certainly use watts per gallon, I take that back. It's still going to have more to do with the depth of the water and the lamps you are using, and total distance from the lamps though... what are you planning on keeping? More depends on your plans as to what sort of livestock you will be keeping... are you going for an SPS dominated theme? FOWLR? Different organisms have different needs and the tank should be set-up accordingly.

[marvinsae]

A marine tank doesn't have to be 18" thick... I run a 10 gallon planted reef. The live rock goes into the display tank with the sand, the sump is for things like the heater, protein skimmer etc. You want ~10x turnover or lower through the sump (which for a 65 gallon tank, if that's what you decide you want, is around 650 gph or lower). Someone mentioned a filter sock, it goes over the inlet to the sump (where the water from the overflow enters the sump). You can boost your circulation in the display tank with powerheads, as you mentioned... choose something with a nice wide flow, you'll likely want a couple (or more) of them to get some nice turbulent currents flowing around the rock. Skimmers should be rated for TOTAL tank volume, so for a 65 gallon DT and a 40 gallon sump you would want a skimmer rated for 100 gallons or higher.

Now, as far as lighting, don't go by watts per gallon (it's terribly inaccurate). Well, actually I suppose as long as you have more than 4 T5HO bulbs or over a 250W metal halide, you can certainly use watts per gallon, I take that back. It's still going to have more to do with the depth of the water and the lamps you are using, and total distance from the lamps though... what are you planning on keeping? More depends on your plans as to what sort of livestock you will be keeping... are you going for an SPS dominated theme? FOWLR? Different organisms have different needs and the tank should be set-up accordingly.


i wanna have a lot of coral so im guessin an sps dominated theme with plenty of fish also. the guy at my lfs said that mushroom corals and zoanths should be able to grow no problem however i would need MH for other corals and clams?

[Madreefer]

i wanna have a lot of coral so im guessin an sps dominated theme with plenty of fish also. the guy at my lfs said that mushroom corals and zoanths should be able to grow no problem however i would need MH for other corals and clams?

I would go MH. Imo it's the only way to go if you cant afford led. Only downfall on MH is the heat and power consumption. If you look at most peoples tank thats what they run.

[Fishward]

i wanna have a lot of coral so im guessin an sps dominated theme with plenty of fish also. the guy at my lfs said that mushroom corals and zoanths should be able to grow no problem however i would need MH for other corals and clams?

Like i said, Fishytime runs 6 bulb T5s and has one of the most amazing tanks i've ever seen. past TOTM also. I have lots of SPS as well and they do just fine under T5s. MH are hot, expensive, and use alot of power, but do give your tank a shimmer you can't get from T5s. (single point light refracts in water better than a line of light) Don't let anyone scare you into buying MH just to keep corals unless you're tank is deeper than about 20-24 inches. past that depth, T5s will not penetrate the water enough and you have to go to MH.

http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40669&page=106

[BlueAbyss]

Alright, SPS dominated mixed reef then :biggrin: So you'll need intense light, at least where you're keeping the SPS (clams, photosynthetic gorgonians, some zoas/palys, etc.).

Metal Halide:
1. A great range of lamps to choose from (150W+), most produce more than enough PAR for the highest light organisms (though quality varies).
2. Excellent depth penetration in deep tanks.
3. Natural looking 'glitter lines' because of the single point light source... this is the 'shimmer' that people talk about, and it is undoubtedly the most attractive part of MH. I love it a lot :lol:
4. The lamps like to run HOT! Fixtures become uncomfortably warm, and heat is projected which can put delicate corals and fishes at risk. Chillers become common equipment, and they are both expensive to buy and to operate.

T5HO fluorescent:
1. Also a great range of lamps to choose from. Since you are using more than one lamp across the width of the tank, you can mix and match lamps to suit your needs.
2. A 6 lamp unit will grow high light SPS and clams quite well. An 8 lamp unit will grow them on the bottom of the average tank.
3. They are decidely efficient and don't project heat in the manner that metal halide lamps do. Also, electronic ballasts (which further increase efficiency) seem to be the norm.
4. Note that T5 lamps need to have some form of active cooling to maintain PAR (Photosynthetically Available Radiation) values over the lamps' lives. If the lamps get too hot, the phosphor quickly degrades taking some of the PAR with it, though the difference may not be apparent to the human eye.

LEDs:
1. Pretty much the most versatile high intensity light source around. You can build your own array, have one built to your specs, or buy one ready made. Easily dimmable and allows for some pretty spectacular special effects. Lensing (called 'optics') determines light levels and since you need to use more than one LED you mix the colors to get the desired effect.
2. Excellent depth penetration as with MH, and excellent PAR values.
3. The most efficient light source available, and the most environmentally friendly as well. There are LEDs that produce 111 lumens per watt, and though I haven't seen any PAR measurements it's still very encouraging. Also, they don't project heat and they last a VERY long time... Cree XR-Es maintain 70% of their original output after 50 000 hours of use, as long as the junction temperature in the chips has stayed at or below 85C (eg: they are properly mounted and heat sinked or cooled). And still have a serviceable life after that, LEDs don't burn out like regular lamps, they degrade slowly from the second they are put into service (see below).
4. As I mentioned, LEDs output degrades with temperature increase, though not permanently until they hit a certain temperature at which point and beyond they quickly become useless, so heat sinks, fans, and reasonable overall ambient temperatures are required.

For an SPS dominated tank, you'll want at least 50x the display tank's volume as your turnover goal. This includes the return from the sump (the sump should be relatively slower moving, 10x or less), powerheads, wavebox, closed loop, etc. The idea is to have a strong turbulent intermittent flow. Automatic top-off isn't necessary but is really nice. Since it will be SPS dominated, you may consider a calcium reactor or dosing system, and you'll definitely want an oversized skimmer (one rated for maybe 2 or 3x your total system volume) since you intend to keep a number of fishes. You may also consider a zeo or pellet (or other) nutrient reduction system if or when you find your nutrients unmanageable.