Would you want to owna product from a company that does buisness like this?

[StirCrazy]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1925

http://www.techeye.net/business/apple-and-scientology-followers-share-cultish-characteristics

http://brainstormtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2010/03/04/steve-jobs-a-man-aggrieved/

http://www.law.com/jsp/cc/PubArticleCC.jsp?id=1202445713234&Patent_Litigation_Weekly_Digging_Beneath_the_Surfa ce_of_Apple_v_HTC


http://www.informationweek.com/news/hardware/handheld/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=223101661&cid=RSSfeed_IWK_News

http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10015268o-2000331761b,00.htm

they have made a name forthemselves in the #1 company in frivulos lawsuits. it has been showen for every justified lawsuite they lanch one rediculous one.

Steve

[Ron99]

Troll.......:lol:

And yes, I do want their products. Stylish, well designed, well thought out, well integrated, easy to use. Most people want technology that is transparent and just works. That is what Apple provides.

Those are stupid articles without any substance. Apple is doing what any company does which it to protect their intellectual property. If you spend huge amounts of time and money redefining the way people use technology and file patents on that why not sue others copying your work.

Techies may not like them because they feel they should have the freedom to change and fiddle with any part of the technology they want. Most people don't care. They just want it to work. The fact it looks nice doesn't hurt either. Before Apple, computers were pretty much beige boxes. Apple changed all that. Before Mac OS computers used command interfaces and were difficult for the average person to understand and use. Before the iPhone nobody envisioned a multitouch touchscreen smartphone.

Would the Android phones even exist if not for the iPhone? Probably not. And given that Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board of directors for some time it is quite possible he took some of the inside information from his role at Apple to Google. Google is a far more evil company than Apple in my opinion.

So the answer is a hearty YES. I will happily do business with them.

[mseepman]

I've always chuckled when people talk Apple up for how easy it is to use...I mean this is a company that required people to "KNOW" that they had to drag their disk onto the garbage can in order to eject the floppy disk.

I used to support these as well as PC's and I often found them twice as frustrating as any PC. When things do go wrong...they go sooooooo wrong.

[Bloodasp]

Don't you have a feeling Steve Jobs is becoming what Bill Gates was to Microsoft before? Love them or hate them they have created a world which no one can almost do any work without using their product.

[RuGlu6]

Interesting how so many ppl like Ipods, Iphones, apple computers.
I stay away from any i-things, i don't like how they work, i don't like how they tell me what to do, so no i-product for me.
thank you.! but thank you.:lol:

[Ron99]

I've always chuckled when people talk Apple up for how easy it is to use...I mean this is a company that required people to "KNOW" that they had to drag their disk onto the garbage can in order to eject the floppy disk.

I used to support these as well as PC's and I often found them twice as frustrating as any PC. When things do go wrong...they go sooooooo wrong.

Sort of like having to click on the "Start" button to turn off your computer :lol: Of course now you can just hit the dedicated eject button on Mac keyboards.

And things go wrong with Macs far less often then with Windows so when they do go wrong it is usually something major.

Interesting how so many ppl like Ipods, Iphones, apple computers.
I stay away from any i-things, i don't like how they work, i don't like how they tell me what to do, so no i-product for me.
thank you.! but thank you.:lol:

If you're hearing voices coming from the iPod telling you what to do i think maybe you need to see your doctor :mrgreen: But seriously, the interfaces are really easy. When an under 5 year old can figure out how to use an iPhone/iPod Touch with minimal teaching that is a well designed piece of technology. That's the magic. Making technology straightforward and easily useful instead of intrusive. Love them or hate them, Apple does that better then any other company.

[Crytone]

And things go wrong with Macs far less often then with Windows so when they do go wrong it is usually something major.


I disagree with this point. I haven't had any problems in years with any PCs and any problem I have had has been hardware related (which were either DOA on my initial builds or died several years into service). I think the main reason people feel that way though is PCs are far more dominant in the marketplace. Let's suppose Apples have a 1% failure rate but only 10% of computer users own an Apple. Let's now suppose PCs have the same 1% failure rate but 90% of the users use PCs. You're going to see WAY more PCs than Apples fail just from simple math, roughly a 9:1 ratio.

Personally, my cousins 1year old Macbook has been in the shop more than it's been at his house- he still loves Apple products though! My other cousin had a powersupply go in her new 27" iMac when she first got it which she had to send away (I think to Lethbridge she said?) to get repaired but otherwise has had zero problems with it and it works awesome for her needs (webpage and graphics designer).

[banditpowdercoat]

I don't have a problem with PC hardware, moreso the problem lies within the OS. And with PC, it's Window's. I Love PC products, and Some windows OS were good. I am presently waiting to upgrade to W7 here, as Vista is giving me the most headaches of all.

I have tried Mac's, although limeted use. I didn't like the outlay and how you interfaced with it.

PC for ME. But I am Damn close to trying Linux or something, just waiting for someone to bundle it on a disk for me LOL

[mr.wilson]

WHAT! A corporation engaging in frivolous lawsuits! As much as I like having four ways to eject a disk on my Macs, I would rather patronize a company like Microsoft that would never engage is such practices. :)

[Doug]

:lol: Steve, you have a bad experience with an Apple or something.

[StirCrazy]

ok I had a huge post done up then I lost internet and lost the post when I went to submit it.. I will try again.

this is going to be a summery of what I posted befor but I don't want to do that much typing :mrgreen:

this was created to discus business practices not the computer brands.. PCs used to have a lot of hardware/compatability problems, but that like apple is a thing of the past.. apple never had this phase as they didn't let anyone else make stuf for there platforms. anyways enough of that

Apple is a large company but in the last 5 years computers have accounted for less than 30% of there profit. the majority is comming from the "I" phones and mp3 players so this is the area this post is concerning.

As Mr wilson put it Microsoft.. ect.. yup that was a while ago, but they didn't launch law suits they bought the companies :mrgreen: then everyone screamed and the goverment slapped them with antitrust suits and asigned a watch dog to them.. which is still in effect.. so that is why you don't read the bad stuff about there practices anymore.

now apple is doing the exact same thing but they can't aford/nor want to buy the companies so they launch lawsuits to force them to go broke or to give in. for every 1 ligitimat lawsuit apple has launched they have launched one in retaliation against a company that started one against them.. you didn't think Apple was above stealing ideas did you???

at any rate it is there practice to counter sue smaller companies who try sue apple to force them to drop the lawsuit. cuz apple has more money.

Apple has done this since there beginning, back fired when they tried to do it to microsoft, but that is a different issue. so when microsoft does this kind of stuff, ie. forcing the compatition to do what they want, they get the goverment stepping in and interviening, but apple gets away with it for years and years..

well another big hitter has launched a lawsuit against both Apple and Nokia. Xerox is claiming infringment on something to do with a camera in a moble device, so finaly the goverment has stepped in and put a hold on all apple lawsuits untill the Xerox is resolved.. If Xerox wins apple will not be allowed to sell Iphones in the US.

I just find it funny that everyone who is a apple guy blindly thing Steve Jobs is the best thinbg since sliced bread, but infact he is a clone of bill gates, maybe even a bit more of a tyrant as Bill gates has never fired and sued a employ for the posability of a leak of a upcomming release.

another area that is watching this all unfole is the silicon valleys of the world.. if apple wins some of the lawsuits they have on the go it will effectivly shut down compatition for there Iphone and put a lot of people out of business and also slow down advancement. one business report I saw on TV about it was sugesting that apple who has advanced there iphone 3 or 4 times in as many years would like to slow down and make some money with out having to reinvest in advancements for a few years.. which ya is great and I am all for companies getting rewards from there work, but not at the expence of free trade and compatition.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

:lol: Steve, you have a bad experience with an Apple or something.

nope my first computer was an apple.

Steve

[Ron99]

I disagree with this point. I haven't had any problems in years with any PCs and any problem I have had has been hardware related (which were either DOA on my initial builds or died several years into service). I think the main reason people feel that way though is PCs are far more dominant in the marketplace. Let's suppose Apples have a 1% failure rate but only 10% of computer users own an Apple. Let's now suppose PCs have the same 1% failure rate but 90% of the users use PCs. You're going to see WAY more PCs than Apples fail just from simple math, roughly a 9:1 ratio.

You would think that may be the explanation and it sounds logical but it's not so. Apple and Macs score very well in independent measures of reliability:

http://pcworld.about.com/od/officehardware/Mac-Gets-Top-Scores-for-Reliab.htm

http://www.macworld.com/article/146629/2010/02/apple_reliability.html

Steve, I don't see why people have to get on Apple's case for protecting its patented inventions. Plenty of companies do it. Apple has been sued many times for patent infringement too. What usually happens is that the company being sued ends up paying a license fee to the company holding the patent. Apple pays license fees to plenty of other companies and in the past Apple and Microsoft ended up suing each other for patent infringement. They settled and agreed to cross license each others patents. So it is doubtful that Apple will (or even could) put HTC or Nokia or Google out of business. They will simply force them to license the patented technology. Same thing with Xerox. If you think Xerox really wants to stop Apple selling iPhones then you don't know how this works. They want Apple to sell lots of iPhones and pay them some fee for each one sold. That's the game with patents.

I do not blindly support Steve Jobs or Apple. But you can't deny that Steve Jobs does have a talent for finding good people and driving them to make the best technology they can. Apple and Jobs have changed the technology landscape and I guess some people have a problem with that. Before Macintosh there was no consumer GUI. It was all experimental stuff developed by Xerox. MP3 players existed before the iPod but they were clunky and had lousy interfaces. Apple put a great package together with excellent hardware (iPod), great software to manage your music and MP3 player (iTunes) and then added the store so you could easily purchase the music you want. Nobody else integrated it into a compelling and easy to use package for the consumer.

Then came the iPhone. It again revolutionized the way we interact with technology with a multi touch screen and OS built around it. Now everybody is copying them. None of the fancy touch screen phones out there would exist today as they do without Apple paving the way. I guarantee that.

So now keep an eye on the iPad. I think that story is just unfolding and it will again revolutionize mobile computing and communication and how we read/interact with newspapers, magazines and books. Apple is an innovator and leader not a copier like everybody else. They take new technology and integrate it into well designed, stylish and easy to use devices and then everybody else runs to catch up. If that sounds to much like a fanboy statement to you well to bad; it's reality.

Also, if you think that Apple really wants to slow down development of the iPhone which will stifle innovation then I think you are sadly mistaken. Apple is built on a culture of innovation and they will bring out newer and better iPhones every year regardless of what the competition is doing. I think Apple likes competition because it helps motivate them to keep a step ahead of everybody else. All these articles are just stupid statements by anti-Apple media. I know people inside Apple and they are highly motivated to make the best stuff they can. They are not sitting around saying "Man I hope we win that patent lawsuit so we can slow down development on the next iThingy".

[lastlight]

One of the worst things about buying Apple items is that the next gen comes quickly and kicks so much more ass. I firmly believe they are always trying their best to innovate and decimate. Perhaps they spread the innovation across versions but Apple is all about pushing ideas forward and looking sexy as hell doing so.

[Crytone]

You would think that may be the explanation and it sounds logical but it's not so. Apple and Macs score very well in independent measures of reliability:

http://pcworld.about.com/od/officehardware/Mac-Gets-Top-Scores-for-Reliab.htm

http://www.macworld.com/article/146629/2010/02/apple_reliability.html

So now keep an eye on the iPad. I think that story is just unfolding and it will again revolutionize mobile computing and communication and how we read/interact with newspapers, magazines and books. Apple is an innovator and leader not a copier like everybody else. They take new technology and integrate it into well designed, stylish and easy to use devices and then everybody else runs to catch up. If that sounds to much like a fanboy statement to you well to bad; it's reality.


I hate to play devils advocate but again I have to disagree with your first point. The only thing Rescuecom's scores tells us is that Apple's own Customer Support is doing it's job. To quote from the 2nd article "Rescuecom says that reliability depends on both the quality of components and the strength of customer support. If that support is lousy, customers will go looking for third-party options like Rescuecom." How many people would go to 3rd party support for an Apple? I wouldn't! I therefore find their score is irrelevant to Apple's reliability and more a "How many people come to us instead of Apple" score.

The iPad is not revolutionary. If anything it's a disappointment. I had high hopes for the iPad (I absolutely LOVE my iPod Touch) but Apple didn't deliver. No Flash support, No multitasking, no camera, etc.. iPad Version II and/or a firmware upgrade will likely fix some of these problems. I have no qualms in stating that the iPad is just an iPod Touch with a larger screen, which is how myself and many others feel. The only advantage Apple has is they already have their infrastructure in place already for the iPad- the iTunes stores and apps. Personally I'm way more interested in the Microsoft Courier as it, seems way more 'revolutionary' than the iPad.

And before I hear people call foul and that MS is copying- it was announced and had videos of it's interface in action well before iPad's announcement. Here's a small video from September 2009 of which we see what the Courier interface is conceptualized to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

I know I probably sound heavily anti-Apple but that's far from the truth. I've stated countless times that I love my iPod Touch. I'd also likely own a Mac as my PC if I didn't dislike the OSX interface and their computers would run the apps I need them to run (running parallels and buying a copy of windows to install would defeat the purpose of owning a Mac and I'd still be limited to their hardware which isn't geared for CAD and gaming). I just don't feel Apple is as revolutionary as everyone makes them out to be but they do make slick products for sure and they do drive other companies to release more polished products/experiences.

[Ron99]

I hate to play devils advocate but again I have to disagree with your first point. The only thing Rescuecom's scores tells us is that Apple's own Customer Support is doing it's job. To quote from the 2nd article "Rescuecom says that reliability depends on both the quality of components and the strength of customer support. If that support is lousy, customers will go looking for third-party options like Rescuecom." How many people would go to 3rd party support for an Apple? I wouldn't! I therefore find their score is irrelevant to Apple's reliability and more a "How many people come to us instead of Apple" score.

The iPad is not revolutionary. If anything it's a disappointment. I had high hopes for the iPad (I absolutely LOVE my iPod Touch) but Apple didn't deliver. No Flash support, No multitasking, no camera, etc.. iPad Version II and/or a firmware upgrade will likely fix some of these problems. I have no qualms in stating that the iPad is just an iPod Touch with a larger screen, which is how myself and many others feel. The only advantage Apple has is they already have their infrastructure in place already for the iPad- the iTunes stores and apps. Personally I'm way more interested in the Microsoft Courier as it, seems way more 'revolutionary' than the iPad.

And before I hear people call foul and that MS is copying- it was announced and had videos of it's interface in action well before iPad's announcement. Here's a small video from September 2009 of which we see what the Courier interface is conceptualized to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

I know I probably sound heavily anti-Apple but that's far from the truth. I've stated countless times that I love my iPod Touch. I'd also likely own a Mac as my PC if I didn't dislike the OSX interface and their computers would run the apps I need them to run (running parallels and buying a copy of windows to install would defeat the purpose of owning a Mac and I'd still be limited to their hardware which isn't geared for CAD and gaming). I just don't feel Apple is as revolutionary as everyone makes them out to be but they do make slick products for sure and they do drive other companies to release more polished products/experiences.

Fair enough Mr. Devil's advocate :twised: However, since Rescuecom is not an authorized Apple repair company then the Apple computers they see are the older out of warranty ones. So it stands to reason that the older machines are still functioning well and reliably and Rescuecom is not receiving many service calls for older Macs. Also, others such as Consumer Reports and even PCMag have rated Apple products at or near the top. My personal experience is also one of great reliability. Of all the Macs I have bought or worked with or friends and family have owned, only two ever had a hardware problem. A faulty CDROM drive that failed within a day or two. It was replaced under warranty. And my latest Macbook Pro that had one of the faulty Nvidia chips that failed almost a year after the original warranty expired (Not Apple's fault since Nvidia shipped a bad batch of chips that ended up in many computers from Apple and Windows laptops too). Apple still replaced my entire logic board at no cost to me as they are honouring an extended warranty on that particular problem. Typing this on that machine right now. Every other machine has enjoyed a long productive life, often amongst several owners. I have passed on or sold every used Mac I ever had in still functioning condition. And not having to worry excessively about viruses and malware is also a big plus. Yeah , hackers could write Mac viruses if they wanted too but they don't at this point. So the end result is not having to deal with viruses in the same way a PC user has to.

As for the iPad, I don't think Apple has shown all its cards yet and nobody has really had a chance to use one to see what it can do. Even the developers have to make do with the software simulation at the moment. Flash? Who cares. Flash is probably on its way out and, at least the Mac version, is a major memory and performance hog. Flash on an iDevice would seriously degrade performance and battery life. HTML5 is coming and Flash is on its way out.

I also have every confidence that Apple will offer some form of multitasking to third parties. Your iPod Touch and iPhone do multitask now, just in limited ways that Apple has implemented. I stand by an earlier comment that for 98.3% of what the average user will do with their iPhone/iPod Touch multitasking is irrelevant and would significantly degrade battery life. I have rarely wished to be able to multitask. As battery performance improves and processors become more efficient I imagine Apple will open this up more. Apple seems to have specific battery life targets and implements things to meet those targets.

Now I think reading will be a killer app for the iPad. Imagine your newspaper and magazines with interactive content and videos etc. or textbooks with interactive diagrams and videos etc. Imagine the internet in your lap on the couch in an easy to use and very lightweight device that is better than any netbook but lighter then any laptop. I think as a textbook device this will be HUGE (note capital letters). I would have killed to have something like this in school instead of carrying 40 pounds of textbooks around. Now imagine your textbook being fully interactive. Videos, animated diagrams, interactive anatomical drawings that you can rotate and see from any angle and add or subtract layers or anatomical features. How about interactive quizzes to hep you test your knowledge? no more doing the sample questions and then having to flip back and forth between the quiz page and the end of the book (or end of the chapter and reading upside down) to find answers. Now have the textbook take you back to review only the topics you had problems with in the quiz. This could be a major change in education.

As for the Courier, I'll believe it when I see it. It's a nice cartoon concept but Microsoft has not shown any real device. I seriously doubt MS can pull off anything half as nice as the Courier concept in a real device. I guess we'll see but it is vapourware at the moment.

When it comes to multi touch both Apple and Microsoft and others are copying. The actual technology was developed and experimented with at various Universities and was really perfected by Jeff Han at NYU (look up some of the youtube videos of his work). Apple was the first to adapt and implement it for the mass market. I don't think Apple claims to have "invented" it but they have patented their implementation of it and if others are trying to implement it in the same way then I guess they infringe Apple's patents.

I think Apple is incredibly innovative as they are often the first to be able to bring new technology to the market, even if the concept came from Universities etc. They are masters at making technology work for the average person. Microsoft and others have never been innovative in the same way. Is Apple perfect? of course not. They make mistakes and sometimes get it wrong. But overall they get it way more right then others way more often. If appreciating elegant and stylish devices and software that allow me to work efficiently or make the technology intuitive and transparent in my everyday tasks is being a fanboy then I guess I'm guilty as charged.

[Cameron]

I must say, after having a few of my own patents, and having to file law suits against others that are infringing. I see no reason why not to sue.

I could roll over and let someone else steal my ideas, eventually be crowded out if they mass market more than me....or I can enforce my patent and my business, and be successful.

Business is business and try getting a shareholder to still fund your venture when you aren't turning a profit.....good luck.

Remember the shareholders own the company and if you aren't performing to what is expected of you, prepare to go under.

We live in a capitalistic society, live with it or leave it.

[fkshiu]

Frivolous lawsuits are par for the course in business - all business. It's simply a tool in negotiating deals nowadays, especially in the IT sector. All I did when I practiced civil law was start and defend lawsuits with little or no actual chance of success.

[StirCrazy]

I must say, after having a few of my own patents, and having to file law suits against others that are infringing. I see no reason why not to sue.

I could roll over and let someone else steal my ideas, eventually be crowded out if they mass market more than me....or I can enforce my patent and my business, and be successful.

Business is business and try getting a shareholder to still fund your venture when you aren't turning a profit.....good luck.

Remember the shareholders own the company and if you aren't performing to what is expected of you, prepare to go under.

We live in a capitalistic society, live with it or leave it.

ahh but were not talking about justified lawsuits, were talking about phony counter suits launched against smaller companies who your stold ideas from just to force them to drop the suit or go out of buisness so you don't have to pay them for there ideas you ripped off.


It seams people are still stuck on the Apple Vs. PC computer argument.. get over it or argue more in Doug's thread :mrgreen: this is more to do with Cell phones and business preactices.

Steve

[Ron99]

ahh but were not talking about justified lawsuits, were talking about phony counter suits launched against smaller companies who your stold ideas from just to force them to drop the suit or go out of buisness so you don't have to pay them for there ideas you ripped off.


It seams people are still stuck on the Apple Vs. PC computer argument.. get over it or argue more in Doug's thread :mrgreen: this is more to do with Cell phones and business preactices.

Steve

So who's business practices and lawsuits are we talking about here? Nokia suing Apple? Apple counter suing Nokia? Xerox suing everybody? Apple suing HTC? They're all suing each other. Because all the other phone companies scramble to copy the iPhone which was a big step forward? Not just as a phone but also as a business model in which the phone maker was not at the mercy of the network provider saying what features they could or could not have activated. Apple set the stage for a fully featured smartphone with few compromises insisted on by the networks. Previously the AT&Ts of the world insisted on having various features disabled etc. so they could maximize their own profits. So who's business practices were suspect?

So how is Apple different and worth attacking because of all this? Because of a few stupid articles by anti-Apple pundits who are trying to claim Apple wants to put others out of business and wants to slow down the pace of it's developments? Sorry, not sure exactly what the argument here is.

[Ron99]

Just to clarify things, who's ideas exactly did Apple rip off? HTC and Google certainly didn't come to the game first. Most likely Google ripped off Apple due to their CEOs insider knowledge from his position on Apple's Board of Directors. He was eventually forced to resign from their Board when Google decided to become a competitor to Apple.

[pinhead]

Just to clarify things, who's ideas exactly did Apple rip off? HTC and Google certainly didn't come to the game first. Most likely Google ripped off Apple due to their CEOs insider knowledge from his position on Apple's Board of Directors. He was eventually forced to resign from their Board when Google decided to become a competitor to Apple.

HTC manufactured touchscreen PDA's and phones for HP and Compaq years before the iPhone.
As well, the Google/Apple split occured after Apple pulled Google Voice from their apps store under pressure from AT&T which did not like the competition Google Voice provided.

Now Apple responds with a lawsuit because of the competition Google Android on HTC phones provides.

Most consumers like choices and drop in prices that competition brings. It appears Apple does not like competition.

Apple may be using accepted business practices but their press is going from bad to worse. Except for fanboys, the response to the ipad has been underwhelming. Now the forums are buzzing about the Apple/HTC lawsuit with the support is overwhelmingly on the side of HTC.

What I posted in the other Mac vs. Apple thread a few weeks ago is even more pertinent considering the lawsuit.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html

And as far as other companies not being innovative, the first pictures of the The Microsoft Courier has been released.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/

Finally, This is is what I did with my $1400 1st generation imac when the powersupply died. I couldn't drop in a new one because it was part of the mainboard and as with most Apple products design and appearance is more important than functionality.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/pinhead1140/2010/misc/03022010049.jpg

[Ron99]

HTC manufactured touchscreen PDA's and phones for HP and Compaq years before the iPhone.
As well, the Google/Apple split occured after Apple pulled Google Voice from their apps store under pressure from AT&T which did not like the competition Google Voice provided.

Now Apple responds with a lawsuit because of the competition Google Android on HTC phones provides.

Most consumers like choices and drop in prices that competition brings. It appears Apple does not like competition.

Apple may be using accepted business practices but their press is going from bad to worse. Except for fanboys, the response to the ipad has been underwhelming. Now the forums are buzzing about the Apple/HTC lawsuit with the support is overwhelmingly on the side of HTC.

What I posted in the other Mac vs. Apple thread a few weeks ago is even more pertinent considering the lawsuit.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html

And as far as other companies not being innovative, the first pictures of the The Microsoft Courier has been released.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/05/microsofts-courier-digital-journal-exclusive-pictures-and-de/

Finally, This is is what I did with my $1400 1st generation imac when the powersupply died. I couldn't drop in a new one because it was part of the mainboard and as with most Apple products design and appearance is more important than functionality.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h22/pinhead1140/2010/misc/03022010049.jpg

Where do we start :biggrin: So HTC made touchscreen devices. Whoopdeedoo. Touchscreen devices have existed for a very long time. My wife has a Samsung Instinct touchscreen phone and I can tell you it is a piece of s*^t compared to the iPhone. My wife actually calls it her iSuck. What is at issue seems to go beyond that into the specific implementation of multi touch and perhaps other technical details. I haven't read all the patents in question (several are cited apparently) and I don't know the technical details of the HTC phones or Google Android but it is quite possible that the phones and Android OS do actually infringe some of Apple's patents. Why would Apple have to stand by and allow that infringement when every other similar company enforces their patents? Does Apple have to abide by some double standard? Are people sh*&ing all over Nokia and Xerox for their lawsuits? Who cares what the press says. Are they experts in patent law and the technical details of the devices and software in question? The press can be notoriously anti-Apple and you have to take what they say with a grain of salt. Are you a patent expert?

Did the press support or slam Palm for their shady implementation of iTunes syncing? Rather then use the approved ways to sync with Apple's media library Palm took the lazy and shady route of fooling iTunes into thinking it was an Apple iPod. This is not allowed according to the USB rules (each vendor has a unique ID and only that vendor can use it, Palm used Apples unique ID in their device which is not allowed). Palm could have made the effort to write the software to sync properly but they were to lazy or incompetent. But Apple is made to look like the bad guy eve though Palm was at fault.

As for the Google Apple splt this had nothing to do with Google voice but with Google's CEO probably using insider information to try to compete with Apple. When he joined Apple's Board Google did not compete with Apple. This came later and Eric Schmidt most likely took some of that inside info about the iPhone to help create Android. He could not ethically, and probably legally, continue to serve on Apple's Board when they became direct competitors to Apple and had to excuse himself.

I guess time will tell with the iPad. You can either see the potential or you don't have the vision to imagine the possibilities. I stand by my statement that Apple has likely not shown all its cards and the full potential is yet to be seen. I suspect the iPad will be a raging success and Apple will sell many of them.

Also, that article you link to is complete and utter nonsense. It has no facts, no accurate information and no substance. It is pure FUD and if you believe it well I guess you have your biases. Is cracked.com really considered an accurate and respected media source?

Point 5. How many other cell phones and networks support you modifying your phone and doing what you want with it? Personally, I like the fact Apple vets the software on the app store and have no interest in Jailbreaking the phone. That opens it up to all sorts of potential problems, malware, viruses etc. You seriously think Apple is evil because they want to ensure a stable user experience by having some control over the devices? Are the 100,000 or so approved Apps not enough for you? Do you think the cellphone networks will be happy with all sorts of unknown software running on phones connected to their networks? While remote there is a possibility that malware could crash the cell network.

Point 4. Seriously? You're going to critisize Apple for taking action against a site that was publishing confidential information that was not obtained legally? The first amendment does not protect the media when they illegally acquire information.

Point 3. Totally Bulls$%t. Nobody was tortured because they lost an iPhone prototype. Yes, the guy in China committed suicide which is sad but there were obviously deeper issues then a lost iPhone prototype. Really, this type of sensationalism belongs in the National Enquirer. The real story is more likely that this guy, who had "misplaced" prototypes several times before was actually letting Chinese counterfeiting companies look at them and knew the jig was up. Fearful of criminal charges he killed himself. Sad but not Apple's doing. And if he was beat up a bit by a security guard it wasn't authorized or accepted because that security guard was turned over to the police as well. Read this for more info:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE56T0BL20090730

Point 2. Google Voice was not blocked at the request of AT&T, AT&T had nothing to do with it. It was blocked because of issues with the software that Apple asked Google to address and resubmit the application. Stuff like google voice accessing the iPhones contact list and uploading it to Google's server with obvious confidentiality implications. This was investigated by the FCC and it was found that there was no collusion between Apple and AT&T. This again is incorrect information.

Point 1. Really doesn't merit any comment. Complete ridiculous speculation based on patent. Plenty of stuff gets patented that never gets used and even if Apple did use that tech there is no way to ascertain how they would use it. The writer simply takes the absolute worst possible scenario and says we should fear Apple. Give me a break.

That article is nothing but nonsense and bulls*&t.

Finally, the Courier. Is there any evidence those are official pics from Microsoft or somebody else's rendering? And all the user interface shots and videos are also still just concept animations and not any video of the real thing. I will grant you the concept looks great but I will believe it when I see the real thing. I have little confidence Microsoft can actually pull this off. The reality will pale compared to the concept.

I like your iMac aquarium. Did you see my iReef? Are you quite sure about the power supply being the problem? I seem to remember the power supply being a separate assembly when I dismantled the computer for my iReef. Maybe repair wasn't a DIY job like your typical PC tower power supply replacement but I doubt it was completely impossible.

[Slick Fork]

I couldn't resist wading in :mrgreen:

I like my Iphone, my wife likes her Ipod touch, I would go berserk if apple broke it because I did something I wasn't supposed to (jailbreak it). If I paid money for it, it is my RIGHT to alter it as I see fit.

What really offends me about Apple, is the "cult" that Apple users seem to get sucked into. The Mac vs. PC thread of Doug's was a great example and seems to be very typical of every Mac Vs. PC discussion out there. When pressed for a comment on Mac's, most pc users will probably admit to liking something about them be it the interface the sexy styling or whatever and then come up with their reasons why they like their PC's. Mac users however tend to echo the really misleading commercials and come up with statements like "Windows 3.11 was horrible so buy a mac today" or "Windows 7 will cause your hard drive to explode and set your house on fire, but not before Bill Gates shows up as the Anti-Christ and violates your wife". I almost NEVER hear a reasonable, fact based argument for Mac's from Mac owners, they always descend into rhetoric and pull out the strangest "facts", which is a shame because I think there are some pretty decent reasons to buy a Mac. Not good enough for me to switch but to each his own.

[Crytone]

We really all should be getting together against Linux!

http://www.heandfi.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/mac_pc_linux.jpg

Just kidding. Thought the thread deserved some laughs though. I'm forced to use Linux at school sometimes and find it good (although annoying at times).

As for the iPad, I see no use for myself for that device since I don't feel it'd be good to use at school (where I'd use it). I have my Touch currently and it has the same functionality that iPad would have for me (light web surfing, email, wasting time with games during spares, etc..), but is obviously more portable. Taking notes would be extremely tedious and frustrating without a stylus (try typing/drawing a schematic/math formula with a finger or touch keyboard..). None, if any, of my textbooks are available for digital download so can't use it for that either... Many textbooks would not be released this way anyways for the simple reason they are easily $100+ textbooks and digital copies are more easily 'pirated' (and someone will crack the encryption eventually).

[StirCrazy]

Does Apple have to abide by some double standard? Are people sh*&ing all over Nokia and Xerox for their lawsuits? Who cares what the press says. Are they experts in patent law and the technical details of the devices and software in question? The press can be notoriously anti-Apple and you have to take what they say with a grain of salt. Are you a patent expert?

Point 5. That opens it up to all sorts of potential problems, malware, viruses etc. You seriously think Apple is evil because they want to ensure a stable user experience by having some control over the devices? Are the 100,000 or so approved Apps not enough for you? Do you think the cellphone networks will be happy with all sorts of unknown software running on phones connected to their networks? While remote there is a possibility that malware could crash the cell network.


Point 3. Totally Bulls$%t. Nobody was tortured because they lost an iPhone prototype. Yes, the guy in China committed suicide which is sad but there were obviously deeper issues then a lost iPhone prototype. Really, this type of sensationalism belongs in the National Enquirer. The real story is more likely that this guy, who had "misplaced" prototypes several times before was actually letting Chinese counterfeiting companies look at them and knew the jig was up. Fearful of criminal charges he killed himself. Sad but not Apple's doing. And if he was beat up a bit by a security guard it wasn't authorized or accepted because that security guard was turned over to the police as well. Read this for more info:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE56T0BL20090730


Finally, the Courier. Is there any evidence those are official pics from Microsoft or somebody else's rendering? And all the user interface shots and videos are also still just concept animations and not any video of the real thing. I will grant you the concept looks great but I will believe it when I see the real thing. I have little confidence Microsoft can actually pull this off. The reality will pale compared to the concept.



your first one.. no they ARE the double standard.. Ron apple is being targeted because 50% of the lawsuits they launch are unfounded and are launched only to destroy compatition through lenghty court battles that drain there money.. remember PFO trying to take on what you call the "Bogus" pattent.

your answer to point 5 is ok.. but the issue with jail break was more to take your iphone on "other" networks that don't offer iphones. but it is a mute point anyways as in 2011 I believe that you can take your phone with you to any network. Thanks CRC :mrgreen: but if Xerox wins its lawsuits it doesn't matter, you won't be able to get a iphone in NA anymore so the networks will drop support for them and then you will be wishing you could jailbreak it.

Point 3, no he wasn't torchered, but the relentless interagation, firing of him and the lawsuit caused hom to comitt suicide.. still something I wouldn't want on my hands but Steveo is ok with it.

as for the pics from microsoft.. doesn't interest me, I think thoes little things are a waist of time. my storm lets me do all junk I need it to do.

Steve

[Ron99]

I couldn't resist wading in :mrgreen:

I like my Iphone, my wife likes her Ipod touch, I would go berserk if apple broke it because I did something I wasn't supposed to (jailbreak it). If I paid money for it, it is my RIGHT to alter it as I see fit.

What really offends me about Apple, is the "cult" that Apple users seem to get sucked into. The Mac vs. PC thread of Doug's was a great example and seems to be very typical of every Mac Vs. PC discussion out there. When pressed for a comment on Mac's, most pc users will probably admit to liking something about them be it the interface the sexy styling or whatever and then come up with their reasons why they like their PC's. Mac users however tend to echo the really misleading commercials and come up with statements like "Windows 3.11 was horrible so buy a mac today" or "Windows 7 will cause your hard drive to explode and set your house on fire, but not before Bill Gates shows up as the Anti-Christ and violates your wife". I almost NEVER hear a reasonable, fact based argument for Mac's from Mac owners, they always descend into rhetoric and pull out the strangest "facts", which is a shame because I think there are some pretty decent reasons to buy a Mac. Not good enough for me to switch but to each his own.

Yes, Steve jobs walks surrounded by the sound of harps and a heavenly glow. Rose petals stream through the air behind him, doves circle about, women swoon, children stare in awe...:lol:

Seriously though, not sure which threads you were reading but I think Doug's thread had lots of good information from both sides and little rhetoric (and for the record what rhetoric may have shown up came from both Mac and Windows camps). Plenty of real facts and information were discussed. I suggest you go back and read it.

As for the iPad, I see no use for myself for that device since I don't feel it'd be good to use at school (where I'd use it). I have my Touch currently and it has the same functionality that iPad would have for me (light web surfing, email, wasting time with games during spares, etc..), but is obviously more portable. Taking notes would be extremely tedious and frustrating without a stylus (try typing/drawing a schematic/math formula with a finger or touch keyboard..). None, if any, of my textbooks are available for digital download so can't use it for that either... Many textbooks would not be released this way anyways for the simple reason they are easily $100+ textbooks and digital copies are more easily 'pirated' (and someone will crack the encryption eventually).

I think you are jumping to some conclusions without seeing stuff first. Apple may very well release some way to take notes with a stylus, and various third parties already sell iPhone styluses. And apparenty frozen sausages work too :biggrin: Apple actually has a patent for a way to detect your hand holding a virtual pen and do handwriting recognition so it is possible you may only have to pretend to write with a stylus and the iPad could do handwriting recognition. Granted, that may not happen right away but it is an interesting solution.

Just because your textbooks aren't available digitally right now doesn't mean its not coming. Check out the links here and especially the video in the second link to see some really early concepts in interactive books and textbooks which have advantages over a traditional paper book. Bear in mind these are early concepts and things will improve.

http://www.technobuffalo.com/blog/mobile-devices/will-textbooks-be-the-killer-ipad-app

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/04/penguin-looking-to-reinvent-ebooks-on-ipad-with-interactive-media/

your first one.. no they ARE the double standard.. Ron apple is being targeted because 50% of the lawsuits they launch are unfounded and are launched only to destroy compatition through lenghty court battles that drain there money.. remember PFO trying to take on what you call the "Bogus" pattent.

your answer to point 5 is ok.. but the issue with jail break was more to take your iphone on "other" networks that don't offer iphones. but it is a mute point anyways as in 2011 I believe that you can take your phone with you to any network. Thanks CRC :mrgreen: but if Xerox wins its lawsuits it doesn't matter, you won't be able to get a iphone in NA anymore so the networks will drop support for them and then you will be wishing you could jailbreak it.

Point 3, no he wasn't torchered, but the relentless interagation, firing of him and the lawsuit caused hom to comitt suicide.. still something I wouldn't want on my hands but Steveo is ok with it.

as for the pics from microsoft.. doesn't interest me, I think thoes little things are a waist of time. my storm lets me do all junk I need it to do.

Steve

Steve, I think you are confusing jailbreaking with unlocking. Two different things. My iPhone is unlocked but not jailbroken. Unlocking let's you use your phone with another cell network by changing SIM cards. Jailbreaking is hacking the OS to allow installation of apps from outside the app store. Jailbreaking BTW has also allowed people to pirate apps onto their phones so Apple's blocking non-approved apps is also a form of copy protection for the developers. Unlocking is completely legitimate and in Europe is required to be available to consumers after 12 months or so IIRC. I think things in Canada are headed that way to as I believe that legislation is coming to allow you to take your phone to another company once your contract is up.

With respect to for Xerox, as I mentioned before, there is no reason for Xerox to block sales of iPhones. That's the standard legal threat and what you ask for in the lawsuit but if Xerox actually does win the patent case then what will happen is Apple and Xerox will settle with Apple paying Xerox a licensing fee on its technology. Xerox is not an Apple competitor and has no interest in stopping iPhone sales. They want money out of Apple.

I also think you are unfairly judging things. How do you know Steve Jobs is okay with somebody committing suicide at his supplier? That is an unfair assumption as you don't know the man and I don't think he made any public statements about it being no big deal. The only official comment from Apple was this:

"We are saddened by the tragic loss of this young employee, and we are awaiting results of the investigations into his death," Apple spokeswoman Kristin Huguet told CNET on Tuesday. "We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."

As for the main topic of this thread, unless you are a software patent expert or a patent attorney I don't think you can judge whether those lawsuits are frivolous or not. Apple's real target here is Google and its Android operating system. Now given that Google's CEO was likely provided insider details of the iPhone, probably even before it was even publicly announced and then turned around and decided to become a competitor to Apple and the iPhone when Google was not yet an OS or mobile phone company it is quite possible that they did steal ideas from Apple and that they infringe on Apple's patented technology. I think time will tell who is right but the patent suits have to run their course.

So really this boils down to the opinion of Apple haters who think they are wrong to try to enforce their patents and should just magnanimously allow the world to copy their inventions but should submit to the patent lawsuits of everybody else.

[StirCrazy]

hey, I was just reading a consumer report mag today.. apple is 2nd behind toshiba in laptops, and third behind two dells in desktops.. :mrgreen:

Steve

[lastlight]

Sounds like they're gaining market share if anything. Those are good numbers!

[BlueAbyss]

Hmm. All the same discussions as when I was in high school 13 years ago... back when 'Apple is about to die, blah blah blah...' Of course, in those days, Apple produced a far more stable and ostensibly superior product. I agree that in those days, the system overall was more stable than a comparable PC... I had nothing but headaches with Windows in those days. Even XP has given me problems, though I have had few (if any) issues that I've heard of others having with Vista. Even so, I'm planning on upgrading to 7, because it will speed things up (gotta love that 64 bit code).

Can anyone tell I'm sort of a tech-geek? Okay, back to Apple. They're still around, and indeed gaining market share (and profits are definitely up). My next computer purchase will be a 21 inch iMac, and I'll be loading W7 onto it. I like having that sort of access, and now Windows is almost Mac-like. Almost... and it will extend the life of my current Dell laptop. Not about to toss something that still works.

Note that there are still Macs in use from the 90's. How often do you see a PC from the 90's? Remember those $2K IBM Aptivas? Well, $2K PowerMacs from the time are still serviceable, I know of at least one person that has a 9600 from the late 90's that processes video.

Oh, and FYI, Apple did license out to 'clones'... some notable names that come to mind are Power Computing (who produced the fastest Mac of the day), and Motorola (shouldn't surprise anyone, they were producing the Mac processors of the day). In the end it hurt the bottom line pretty bad (hardware sales dropped precipitously) so it only lasted for about 3 or so years, from what I can remember.

[Ron99]

Oh, and FYI, Apple did license out to 'clones'... some notable names that come to mind are Power Computing (who produced the fastest Mac of the day), and Motorola (shouldn't surprise anyone, they were producing the Mac processors of the day). In the end it hurt the bottom line pretty bad (hardware sales dropped precipitously) so it only lasted for about 3 or so years, from what I can remember.

Very true. In fact, I owned a Power Computing Powercenter Pro 180. Great computer for the money.

[lastlight]

Power Computing Powercenter Pro 180

Wow and I felt lame initially telling people I had a macBook Pro. That is a mouthful of silly!

[BlueAbyss]

Very true. In fact, I owned a Power Computing Powercenter Pro 180. Great computer for the money.

Indeed... about half the price of the comparable Apple hardware, I believe.

And really, all computers have silly name... when people ask me what I have, I say I have a mid-range Dell laptop that works okay for games.

I should chime in on the Apple Google Xerox HTC thing also... Eventually, this is going to work itself out just like back in the day when Microsoft went for Apple's jugular, and Apple fought back. Stuff like this between tech companies happens, it's just the way it goes (and hopefully, we the consumer eventually benefit). Let's just all try to remember that we are the consumers... spend your cash wisely.

And we'll see if iPad doesn't go the way of Newton. Hope Apple has another use for those newly developed (really?) A4 processors.

[Ron99]

Wow and I felt lame initially telling people I had a macBook Pro. That is a mouthful of silly!

Yeah, that was the days when they used PowerPC processors and there was lots of "power" in the names :lol:

Cue yor best Jeremy Clarkson voice shouting "POOOWEERRRRR!!!!"

[Ron99]

And we'll see if iPad doesn't go the way of Newton. Hope Apple has another use for those newly developed (really?) A4 processors.

I suspect they will have another success on their hands. Did you ever use a Newton? I had one years ago. It was a great device but also a bit ahead of its time. If a slightly sleeker newton had debuted around the same time as the palm pilot Apple would probably have killed Palm.

Here's an interesting perspective on Apple vs. the critics:

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/200386/Apples_long_history_of_lousy_first_reviews

[Slick Fork]

For the Ipad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Apple's marketing is second to none, period. I think that's where Apple's true genius is. Even in the article you posted Ron, it's tough to disagree with some of the critics. I'll use the iPhone as an example. The first ones were a great idea but poorly implemented. My friend had an original iphone and my $50 LG had a camera while his multi-hundred dollar Iphone didn't his reception was terrible (mine still is). Apple lover's would call it an idea that came before it's time, I'd call it an unpolished product released before it was properly thought out. I've got the 3GS and absolutely love it, and while it's definately an improvement over the previous models, they are not revolutionary leaps forward every time.

Imac's are another good example. They are a nice computer, with a nice user interface. BUT they are no more reliable, or better performing then my PC running windows 7. Apple can charge a premium because
1) they focus their marketing against legacy windows systems like 98SE, 2000, NT, and XP.

and 2) Even I'll admit that the whole package LOOKS really sexy sitting on a desk.
Since the Ipad is featuring in this discussion, and I don't mean to pick on you exclusively Ron, but you like to talk about all the things that the Ipad COULD be and you paint a very pretty picture, it would be nice if the Ipad WAS all those things, but I'm still left with the fact that it ISN'T any of those things you think it MIGHT be one day.

And it's not really about hating Apple or their products, it's the constant rhetoric, negative and misleading advertising that I'm tired of.

[Ron99]

For the Ipad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

Apple's marketing is second to none, period. I think that's where Apple's true genius is. Even in the article you posted Ron, it's tough to disagree with some of the critics. I'll use the iPhone as an example. The first ones were a great idea but poorly implemented. My friend had an original iphone and my $50 LG had a camera while his multi-hundred dollar Iphone didn't his reception was terrible (mine still is). Apple lover's would call it an idea that came before it's time, I'd call it an unpolished product released before it was properly thought out. I've got the 3GS and absolutely love it, and while it's definately an improvement over the previous models, they are not revolutionary leaps forward every time.

Imac's are another good example. They are a nice computer, with a nice user interface. BUT they are no more reliable, or better performing then my PC running windows 7. Apple can charge a premium because
1) they focus their marketing against legacy windows systems like 98SE, 2000, NT, and XP.

and 2) Even I'll admit that the whole package LOOKS really sexy sitting on a desk.
Since the Ipad is featuring in this discussion, and I don't mean to pick on you exclusively Ron, but you like to talk about all the things that the Ipad COULD be and you paint a very pretty picture, it would be nice if the Ipad WAS all those things, but I'm still left with the fact that it ISN'T any of those things you think it MIGHT be one day.

And it's not really about hating Apple or their products, it's the constant rhetoric, negative and misleading advertising that I'm tired of.


uuhhhhm, my 1st generation iPhone has a camera. Maybe your friend's is a bootleg chinese copy :question:

The whole Mac vs. PC argument is kind of pointless as some will always prefer one over the other. But the reality is that for the average user wanting something they can pull out of the box, plug in and use Macs are better. And they are more stable and have less problems (maybe the margin has closed up now with Windows 7 but time will tell) and you don't have to worry about tons of viruses and malware. That's a fact. Here's another interesting article:

http://www.cio.com/article/569163/Are_Macs_Really_Cheaper_To_Manage_Than_PCs_?taxono myId=3081%22

As for the iPad, my ideas are not flights of fantasy or wild conjetcture and I am sure you will see them shortly. Plenty of great apps that take advantage of the iPads speed and larger screen will come out to show off the potential. Let's talk again in a year and see what happens :biggrin:

BTW, those various Hitler videos are pretty funny. Here's another that shows how evil Apple is in its app approval process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WB7pw78sf0&feature=related

[mr.wilson]

My first generation iphone has a camera as well. I had to jailbreak it to use it in Canada, so it has a third party video AP as well. That's something my Iphone 3G doesn't have. Other than 3G and processing speed, I can't think of any changes with the iphone. I prefer the original aluminum case over the current black plastic.

As for operating systems, kudos to Microsoft for creating Windows 7, but it took them long enough :) The new Hyundai may be as good as a Honda, but it isn't going to have Honda owners changing their buying habits overnight. I'm sure Windows 7 is as good or better than Snow Leopard, but it's only been on the market for 4 months, so you have to understand that the "Apple rhetoric" you are referring to is based on Microsoft's body of work over the past 25 years. I'm not a computer expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't dream of expounding the virtues of an aquarium product (pump etc.) that I have only used for a few months.

[Slick Fork]

uuhhhhm, my 1st generation iPhone has a camera. Maybe your friend's is a bootleg chinese copy :question:

The whole Mac vs. PC argument is kind of pointless as some will always prefer one over the other. But the reality is that for the average user wanting something they can pull out of the box, plug in and use Macs are better. And they are more stable and have less problems (maybe the margin has closed up now with Windows 7 but time will tell) and you don't have to worry about tons of viruses and malware. That's a fact. Here's another interesting article:

http://www.cio.com/article/569163/Are_Macs_Really_Cheaper_To_Manage_Than_PCs_?taxono myId=3081%22

As for the iPad, my ideas are not flights of fantasy or wild conjetcture and I am sure you will see them shortly. Plenty of great apps that take advantage of the iPads speed and larger screen will come out to show off the potential. Let's talk again in a year and see what happens :biggrin:

BTW, those various Hitler videos are pretty funny. Here's another that shows how evil Apple is in its app approval process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WB7pw78sf0&feature=related

If they have camera's that's my bad then. I could've sworn he complained about not having a camera.

Not really wanting to call your ideas "flights of fancy, but they are possibilities and not reality at this time. I will be curious in a year to see how they do with it. But for now all it is is an Ipod Touch that you can't fit in your pocket.

@Mr. Wilson, Vista was rock solid for me as well but I don't want to kick over that ant hill again. My point was that it's ridiculous and really misleading to compare the most recent Snow Leopard with a 10 year old Microsoft OS. It'd be like Chevrolet comparing the Corvette to a Model T and saying Ford relys on 100 year old technology.

[fkshiu]

@Mr. Wilson, Vista was rock solid for me as well but I don't want to kick over that ant hill again. My point was that it's ridiculous and really misleading to compare the most recent Snow Leopard with a 10 year old Microsoft OS. It'd be like Chevrolet comparing the Corvette to a Model T and saying Ford relys on 100 year old technology.

Actually, a more apt comparison would be how GM, Ford and Chrysler built crappy cars throughout the 70s and 80s leaving a bad taste in consumers' mouths. As a result, they lost most of their customers to the Japanese. Similarly, consumers have had to live through numerous Windows issues for the last several decades. Along comes Apple to say "We're not PCs". Good marketing? Yes, of course. But it was Microsoft and PCs themselves that gave Apple the opportunity in the first place.

Now that Microsoft finally seems to have gotten its act together with Windows 7, consumers who switched to Apple or are on the fence are saying: "Prove it, since you've screwed me before."

[Ron99]

Just for a laugh, here's a take on Microsoft innovation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY&feature=related

[Ron99]

Looks like the iPad may do alright:

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/03/12/possibly-as-many-as-50-000-ipads-pre-ordered-in-first-two-hours/

[pinhead]

While we're at it how about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

Check out the comment at 1:38

[Ron99]

While we're at it how about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA

Check out the comment at 1:38

ROFL. Yeah, I think I saw one that last year. Onion News Network is pretty funny.

[Crytone]

Ok, those videos definitely made me laugh. Both were great and worth a look/laugh.

Here's a funny picture I found the other day also.
http://www.walyou.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/apple-iboard-imat-design-gadget.jpg

Someone commented to me a few pages back about my not wanting to an iPad since it wouldn't be good for myself for school. I'll comment back saying that, according to current know specs of the iPad, it will NOT work for me. Speculating the iPad will have a stylus is more excessive than me speculating it won't since Apple hasn't announced that feature yet, and it's less than a month away from being released (you think if they were going for that demographic of user they'd have announced that spec if it was included). Now I believe a version 2 iPad may likely include this feature but not version 1 as it is currently known. Using a 'sausage' or any makeshift stylus will not offer enough dexterity I feel also.

As for the textbooks, I stand by my stance that many will not be released for the iPad, and if they are it won't be an iPad only version (likely some kind of format that can be placed on any kindle, iPad, laptop, Courier, etc..). Limiting themselves to a single platform would likely be too costly for the amount gained. Many companies will wait and see how well the iPad is adopted and by that time I'll have graduated and have no need for new textbooks anymore. Students are cheap too, why would they pay $100 for a digital format book when they can buy a used textbook for $40? Saving $60 to buy beer with! The other problem is if I drop my iPad and break it, I'd lose my textbooks until I got a new iPad or got it repaired, with a book I drop it I maybe crease a few pages but otherwise have a usable book still to finish my assignment due the next day.

Just my thoughts.

[BlueAbyss]

I suspect they will have another success on their hands. Did you ever use a Newton? I had one years ago. It was a great device but also a bit ahead of its time. If a slightly sleeker newton had debuted around the same time as the palm pilot Apple would probably have killed Palm.

Here's an interesting perspective on Apple vs. the critics:

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/200386/Apples_long_history_of_lousy_first_reviews

I played with one years ago, I liked the interface and it's applications. I didn't, however, like the screen on any of the PDAs of the day. I found them all to be difficult to read, and the lack of a light exacerbated the problem.

What I was referring to is exactly that, the possibility that the public won't 'get' the product and it will be pushed aside by the marketplace. I think the iPad might be a winner... though if I personally bought one, I'd have to buy a keyboard to go with it.

[Ron99]

I played with one years ago, I liked the interface and it's applications. I didn't, however, like the screen on any of the PDAs of the day. I found them all to be difficult to read, and the lack of a light exacerbated the problem.

What I was referring to is exactly that, the possibility that the public won't 'get' the product and it will be pushed aside by the marketplace. I think the iPad might be a winner... though if I personally bought one, I'd have to buy a keyboard to go with it.

Absolutely. Screen technology has come a long way from the poorly backlit monochrome LCDs of those days. It was the best available for a handheld device then.

I also think the market may get the iPad more easily now given the success of the iPhone and iPod Touch to lead the way. People will know how to use it and have some idea what it can do from those devices. It will be the newer functionality which will sell the device. I am pretty certain that when it comes time to replace my current laptop I will buy an iPad and a desktop instead. The iPad is far more portable and will do everything I need it to do on the road (surf the net, check email, take notes, show slide presentations etc.) and I can have a more powerful desktop such as an iMac at home/office.


Ok, those videos definitely made me laugh. Both were great and worth a look/laugh.

Here's a funny picture I found the other day also.
http://www.walyou.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/apple-iboard-imat-design-gadget.jpg

Someone commented to me a few pages back about my not wanting to an iPad since it wouldn't be good for myself for school. I'll comment back saying that, according to current know specs of the iPad, it will NOT work for me. Speculating the iPad will have a stylus is more excessive than me speculating it won't since Apple hasn't announced that feature yet, and it's less than a month away from being released (you think if they were going for that demographic of user they'd have announced that spec if it was included). Now I believe a version 2 iPad may likely include this feature but not version 1 as it is currently known. Using a 'sausage' or any makeshift stylus will not offer enough dexterity I feel also.

As for the textbooks, I stand by my stance that many will not be released for the iPad, and if they are it won't be an iPad only version (likely some kind of format that can be placed on any kindle, iPad, laptop, Courier, etc..). Limiting themselves to a single platform would likely be too costly for the amount gained. Many companies will wait and see how well the iPad is adopted and by that time I'll have graduated and have no need for new textbooks anymore. Students are cheap too, why would they pay $100 for a digital format book when they can buy a used textbook for $40? Saving $60 to buy beer with! The other problem is if I drop my iPad and break it, I'd lose my textbooks until I got a new iPad or got it repaired, with a book I drop it I maybe crease a few pages but otherwise have a usable book still to finish my assignment due the next day.

Just my thoughts.

Nice, Steve Jobs playing Break Dance Revolution on the iMat :lol:

As for a stylus, there are already companies making iPhone compatible styluses (styli?) so it is not inconceivable that if Apple itself does not release a stylus/note taking app some third party (or parties) will make note taking apps. It is an obvious application for the iPad so somebody will do it.

As for textbooks, that will come sooner than later. You can come up with plenty of reasons and rationale as to why it won't happen but I suspect you will be wrong. I think the idea of carrying around a 1.5 pound device instead of 40 or 50 pounds of textbooks will appeal to many people and the textbooks for iPad will be more interactive and have features paper textbooks will not have. They may very well release versions for other devices such as the Courier (if and when it shows up and if it is any good) or other slate computers. The current Kindle,and similar eReaders, are to limited to offer the type of interactivity and media richness the iPad etc. will offer. However, I do think devices such as the iPad, Kindle, other slates etc. will spell the end of paper books eventually. It won't happen next year but will probably take a decade. Look how CD sales have dropped off over the last years because of services like iTunes. If the publishing industry have any brains they will use the example of the music industry and try to change and evolve rather than fight it like the record companies did. Didn't do the music industry any good to fight it.

Plenty of pundits crapped on the iPod and iPhone when they was announced. Harped on what they couldn't do and what they were missing blah blah blah instead of trying to see the potential in the device and imagine what it can do. We've seen how the iPod/iTunes ecosystem changed the way we consume music. Apple and all the developers who created 100,000 plus apps have shown what the iPhone/iPod Touch can do. Whatever you or others think, the iPad is more than a big iPod Touch. The larger screen itself opens it up to greater possibilities than are practical with the smaller devices. The future keeps approaching my friends. Embrace it and enjoy the possibilities :biggrin:

[StirCrazy]

just like back in the day when Microsoft went for Apple's jugular, and Apple fought back. Stuff like this between tech companies happens, it's just the way it goes (and hopefully, we the consumer eventually benefit). Let's just all try to remember that we are the consumers... spend your cash wisely.

.

um, that was Apple that went after Microsoft.. microsoft fought back with all of Hells fury and wone. that when apple tried to destroy Microsoft over windows. not xp but version 1 :mrgreen: Apple almost was eliminated and lost a lot of there momentum back then over there lawsuit against microsoft. If they never would have launched that they would probably be just as big as MS now.

Steve

[midgetwaiter]

um, that was Apple that went after Microsoft.. microsoft fought back with all of Hells fury and wone. that when apple tried to destroy Microsoft over windows. not xp but version 1 :mrgreen: Apple almost was eliminated and lost a lot of there momentum back then over there lawsuit against microsoft. If they never would have launched that they would probably be just as big as MS now.

Steve

You have a very shallow understanding of what happened.

Apple filed suit over the changes introduced in Windows 2.0, the elements used in Windows 1.0 were licensed from Apple but didn't extend to overlapping windows. Apple also went after HP and some others at the same time for similar reasons and won. Xerox also sued Apple on similar grounds during this period but for some reason they never sued MS. Microsoft did hire some of the staff from Xerox PARC so maybe they took some patents with them or something, that was how they defended the Apple lawsuit at least.

This was about the same time MS started to play footsie with IBM in the OS/2 project though so it could be that IBM offered them some additional cross license protection from their portfolio. The OS/2 partnership may have also been Apple's target all along as well, soon after MS pulled out of OS/2 for the Chicago / NT strategy Apple started working with IBM on Taligent. What killed Apple's momentum during this period were the successive failures of the Taligent and Copeland projects, and the relative success of MS' Chicago (win95). These lawsuits are not even a blip.

I don't know why you hate Apple so much now but unless your understanding of the current situation is much better than understanding of the past you may want to reconsider. Good lord, look at how much money Microsoft gave to those scumbags at SCO so they could go after linux, that makes Apple look saintly in comparison.

[StirCrazy]

actualy I was worng on the version number it was two not one..

"Without warning, Apple filed suit against Microsoft in federal court on March 17, 1988 for violating Apple's copyrights on the "visual displays" of the Macintosh. (Apple also filed suit against HP for its NewWave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewWave_%28HP_software%29) environment that ran on top of Windows 2.0.)
Apple's suit included 189 contested visual displays that Apple believed violated its copyright.
Microsoft countersued, but it failed to stem the bad publicity. Windows' development community was terrified that any court ordered changes to the software would render their products incompatible and make Windows undesirable to consumers. Borland's CEO said it was like "waking up and finding out that your partner might have AIDS."
Fortunately for Windows developers, Judge W. Schwarzer ruled on July 25, 1989, that 179 of the 189 disputed displays were covered by the existing license, and most of the other ten were not violations of Apple's copyright due to the merger doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merger_doctrine) (the merger doctrine stipulates that ideas cannot be copyrighted). In the case of Apple vs. Microsoft, many of the displays Apple contested were ideas and could not be protected by copyright.
The lawsuit was decided in Microsoft's favor on August 24, 1993."

certionaly looks like they launched a lawsuit against MS to me.

in fact if MS wounldn't have given money to Apple in 97, there might not be a apple. but like anything else... MS needs compatition or they are declaired a monopoly so it was in there best interest to keep Apple floating. just like the comercials they let apple run.

"The lawsuit single-handedly tainted Microsoft-Apple relations until 1997, when Microsoft pumped $100 million into Apple.
The 1985 agreement hurt Sculley almost as much as the judgment did. Mac users everywhere were shocked that the Apple CEO would give Microsoft unfettered access to the Macintosh interface in exchange for Excel and Word.
Apple appealed the ruling and made it all the way to the Supreme Court, which declined to hear the case"


Steve

[midgetwaiter]

certionaly looks like they launched a lawsuit against MS to me.


I never said they didn't, I said the details you posted were incorrect.


in fact if MS wounldn't have given money to Apple in 97, there might not be a apple. but like anything else... MS needs compatition or they are declaired a monopoly so it was in there best interest to keep Apple floating. just like the comercials they let apple run.


That's a pretty common interpretation and a deeply flawed one. There is no way Microsoft could defend a charge of being a monopoly by highlighting Apple, they owned 100 Million in preferred stock! Pointing out that you own a big chunk of your strongest competition would NOT help.


"The lawsuit single-handedly tainted Microsoft-Apple relations until 1997, when Microsoft pumped $100 million into Apple.
The 1985 agreement hurt Sculley almost as much as the judgment did. Mac users everywhere were shocked that the Apple CEO would give Microsoft unfettered access to the Macintosh interface in exchange for Excel and Word.
Apple appealed the ruling and made it all the way to the Supreme Court, which declined to hear the case"


I'd respectfully suggest you link to wikipedia entries in the future rather than do the copy / paste thing, even if you do use quotes. The only obvious indication of the transition is the lack of spelling mistakes.

[StirCrazy]

Id respectfully suggest you link to wikipedia entries in the future rather than do the copy / paste thing, even if you do use quotes. The only obvious indication of the transition is the lack of spelling mistakes.

wasn't wicipedia, cant trust nothing you read on that site. it was actualy off an apple site.

Steve

[Ron99]

As I see it the various lawsuits etc. had little to do with the near death of Apple. Ironically, I think it was a relative lack of innovation and expensive mediocre products due to the succession of bean counter CEOs (John Sculley, Michael Spindler, Gil Amelio) that almost killed Apple. While there were a few inspired products during that period (the first Powerbooks were fairly innovative in the laptop world) it was nothing like what we see now. It was the return of Steve Jobs and a renewed focus on innovation, great industrial design and ease of use that brought Apple back. Dealings with Microsoft etc. were interesting side stories.

[Delphinus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3irf4IAv9U

[Slick Fork]

Vital Ipad Comparisons!

http://wwww.9gag.com/photo/17815_full.jpg

http://www.sammyliu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/t8ki7o.jpg