PDA

View Full Version : my 131g FOWLR


kien
02-28-2010, 11:18 AM
I have decided that I need to set up a FOWLR. There are so many wonderful fish out there that just aren't reef safe.. However, I have also decided that this pipe dream is only going to work if I can somehow plumb this tank into my existing mixed reef so that I can reuse existing equipment. I can't imagine having to change the skimmer, and do water changes on both tanks! Yikes!

Anyway, here's sort of what I had in mind. There are some challenges to overcome like the location of the two tanks. First up is a top down view of the setup.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/super_sump_top_view.jpg?t=1267359177

The first sump sits under the mixed reef which is a room divider. The second tank will sit in an alcove/cantilever/recess which is 90 degrees to the mixed reef and about 2 feet away.

Here is a side view of the super sump.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/super_sump_side_view.jpg?t=1267359274

I am not a plumber so I have no clue if this will even work :lol: I guess my biggest question/concern is the 2" pipe that connects the two sumps. Is that big enough? Will that work? Both sumps will be level to one another. While I'm at it, I figured I mind as well try to cram in a water change tank.

Plan B is to skip sump 2 all together and just plumb the FOWLR straight to sump 1. That's doable, but I was hoping I'd be able to leverage the second sump to allow for the water change scenario.

Thoughts, comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

lorenz0
02-28-2010, 03:10 PM
what diamentions are you thinking? 8+ feet ;)

Carmen
02-28-2010, 03:29 PM
HOLY COW!!!! Another one! Gooooo Kien!:mrgreen:
Sounds Cool!

kien
02-28-2010, 04:01 PM
what diamentions are you thinking? 8+ feet ;)

HOLY COW!!!! Another one! Gooooo Kien!:mrgreen:
Sounds Cool!

I'm thinking 60"(long)x18"(deep/wide)x26"(tall) :biggrin:

Ya, another one! LOL. Although, In theory this tank should be less maintenance? I have had lots of FOWLRs in the past and they were a lot less work! I don't plan on putting any corals in there (ya right, :lol:) so most of the tinkering will still be in the Mixed Reef. I thought about keeping the two separate but there's no way that is going to happen. It is bad enough with the Mixed Reef and the Lagoon! Can't imagine 3 water changes, 3 skimmers! Anyway.. it is obvious that I have way too much time on my hands! It does help that I don't need to sleep though :drinking:

Coleus
03-01-2010, 03:24 AM
Go Canada Go!

opps wrong forum, oh well

Go Kien Go! :-)

Leah
03-01-2010, 03:41 AM
Go Canada Go!

opps wrong forum, oh well

Go Kien Go! :-)

:biggrin:



It does help that I don't need to sleep though :drinking:

Kien,

I feel we are close enough now to speak openly and honestly.
Go to bed! :wink:

Please forgive me for what I said earlier, please don't hold it against me.:redface:

The Grizz
03-01-2010, 03:41 AM
Boy if I had your money I would burn mine, have my 165 done, keep my 75 corner and 155 BF. :biggrin: You go dude!

lorenz0
03-01-2010, 04:54 AM
what type of fish are you looking at keeping?

kien
03-01-2010, 05:02 AM
Hmm, I'm thinking triggers, angels and wrasses :-)

kien
03-01-2010, 05:21 AM
So did my schematics scare everyone? Not too much input on the actual design itself? .. :lol:

This evening I decided to mock up the tank to see how it would look in the space. Seems to fit okay. Not too overbearing and still room around the dining room table. With the help of my son we went so far as to stock the mock tank.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_9077.jpg?t=1267424448

golf nut
03-01-2010, 05:47 AM
I don't quite follow the W/C bypass, are you planning water changes by dumping there and overflowing into the sump?

connecting the sumps will be fine with a 2", even 1 1/2 will be OK.

kien
03-01-2010, 05:54 AM
I don't quite follow the W/C bypass, are you planning water changes by dumping there and overflowing into the sump?

connecting the sumps will be fine with a 2", even 1 1/2 will be OK.

Ya, that's exactly what I had in mind for the WC tank. The FOWLR would drain into the water change tank during normal operations and then overflow into a the second sump. Then when it comes time for a water change, I cut off the line going from the FOWLR into the WC tank and turn on the line that bypasses the WC tank and goes straight to the sump. Mix new salt water in the WC tank then turn valves back to normal positions.

golf nut
03-01-2010, 06:14 AM
Ya, that's exactly what I had in mind for the WC tank. The FOWLR would drain into the water change tank during normal operations and then overflow into a the second sump. Then when it comes time for a water change, I cut off the line going from the FOWLR into the WC tank and turn on the line that bypasses the WC tank and goes straight to the sump. Mix new salt water in the WC tank then turn valves back to normal positions.


So you use persay dirty water to force clean water into the system?

kien
03-01-2010, 06:22 AM
So you use persay dirty water to force clean water into the system?

Yup! :-) Is there something wrong with that?

Kryptic4L
03-01-2010, 06:23 AM
yeah because your going to get a mix of dirty / clean water thus wasting half of the "clean" water.

kien
03-01-2010, 06:25 AM
yeah because your going to get a mix of dirty / clean water thus wasting half of the "clean" water.

Hmm.. not really following. Now sure how that's different than doing a water change? Take old water out, put new water in, dirty water in the display mixes with new water. Same principal or am I missing something?

golf nut
03-01-2010, 06:28 AM
Hmm.. not really following. Now sure how that's different than doing a water change? Take old water out, put new water in, dirty water in the display mixes with new water. Same principal or am I missing something?
If you take out 50% of the water in your system and then top off you did a 50% water change, if you added 50% new water and drained the rest you just did a 25% water change.

Kryptic4L
03-01-2010, 06:32 AM
nope i was missing something, just messed me up because in my normal operations 1) I mix the water 2) then take out the water 3) then add fresh.

you are doing 2,1,3. For some reason I read it as you were mixing the water then draining the tank into the fresh water and then removing excess. :)

freezetyle
03-01-2010, 06:36 AM
Wow. im sure this tank will look great.

Just out of curiosity, How do you keep your wife happy enough to have three sizable tanks? A few people on here have their spouses nagging them over a small nano tank.

Some men have all the luck:lol:

i get what you saying about the water change station. I think where people are getting mixed up on is that fact that your actually closing the line and draining the w/c tank before filling it with the new water. then opening it back up to the system

kien
03-01-2010, 06:40 AM
If you take out 50% of the water in your system and then top off you did a 50% water change, if you added 50% new water and drained the rest you just did a 25% water change.

I only do 10-15% water changes a week :biggrin:

nope i was missing something, just messed me up because in my normal operations 1) I mix the water 2) then take out the water 3) then add fresh.

you are doing 2,1,3. For some reason I read it as you were mixing the water then draining the tank into the fresh water and then removing excess. :)

Right :-)

golf nut
03-01-2010, 06:40 AM
The drawing shows using "dirty water" to force fresh into the system, therefore mixed water will go to the sump, or is there another idea you have in mind?

kien
03-01-2010, 06:41 AM
Wow. im sure this tank will look great.

Just out of curiosity, How do you keep your wife happy enough to have three sizable tanks? A few people on here have their spouses nagging them over a small nano tank.

Some men have all the luck:lol:

i get what you saying about the water change station. I think where people are getting mixed up on is that fact that your actually closing the line and draining the w/c tank before filling it with the new water. then opening it back up to the system

Yes, that's exactly what's happening!

Wife doesn't mind the hobby. She loves the tanks, but mostly when I'm working on the tanks she knows exactly where I am. I'm either in the tank, under the tank, or at Red Coral. :lol:

kien
03-01-2010, 06:45 AM
The drawing shows using "dirty water" to force fresh into the system, therefore mixed water will go to the sump, or is there another idea you have in mind?

no that's pretty much what's happening I think?

1) Display tank drains into the water change tank and water change tank drains into the sump. Everything flows as one system.
2) Take the water change tank off line (out of the loop) by turning bypass valves so that now the display tank drains directly into the sump.
3) Water change tank is now isolated.
4) Drain the water change tank, refill and mix with new salt water.
5) Now put the water change tank back into the system by turning the bypass valves back thus forcing the new salt water through the system.

golf nut
03-01-2010, 06:53 AM
no that's pretty much what's happening I think?

1) Display tank drains into the water change tank and water change tank drains into the sump. Everything flows as one system.
2) Take the water change tank off line (out of the loop) by turning bypass valves so that now the display tank drains directly into the sump.
3) Water change tank is now isolated.
4) Drain the water change tank, refill and mix with new salt water.
5) Now put the water change tank back into the system by turning the bypass valves back thus forcing the new salt water through the system.
Maybe the scale is confusing if all you are doing is a 10 to 15% water change, doing what you are saying will work fine, it just seems like a lot of plumbing and space to do a water change.

karazy
03-01-2010, 01:44 PM
looks like this will be a good build kien. let me know if you needany help on it.
also, let me know if you want any specifcic FOWLR-like fish and ill talk straight to the boss.

kien
03-01-2010, 03:48 PM
looks like this will be a good build kien. let me know if you needany help on it.
also, let me know if you want any specifcic FOWLR-like fish and ill talk straight to the boss.

Thanks Evan!! I haven't quite pushed the 'GO!' button on this one yet but getting close I think.. At any rate, keep an eye out for a Banana Wrasse for me :biggrin:

Leah
03-01-2010, 04:31 PM
Yes, that's exactly what's happening!

Wife doesn't mind the hobby. She loves the tanks, but mostly when I'm working on the tanks she knows exactly where I am. I'm either in the tank, under the tank, or at Red Coral. :lol:

She is a clever lady.:wink: You get to see Doug and I don't.:mrgreen:

BC564
03-01-2010, 07:07 PM
The water change will work great.....sure will save alot of work.

burtonboy
03-02-2010, 12:07 AM
I pretty much had the same idea for the bypass and water change tank for my 85 gallon reef tank i was a little skeptical on my design but looking at yours im thinking now that it will work!:mrgreen:
Cant wait to see this thing!


Daniel

kien
03-02-2010, 12:37 AM
I've seen that water change design elsewhere so I think it'll work out. No one has convinced me otherwise so I think its a go!

freezetyle
03-02-2010, 12:40 AM
is your idea similar to what Untamed has for his set up? if people were to look at that it would save some time explaining it.
http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28436&page=3

post #30

kien
03-02-2010, 12:47 AM
YES! My execution is slightly different but the principle is exactly the same. I think my picture is prettier (if maybe more convoluted) :biggrin::lol:

Coleus
03-02-2010, 04:31 AM
Hmm, maybe i can build something like this to my existing tank instead a separate tank for corals only. YES YES, I may have a perfect space for it

burgerchow
03-02-2010, 04:53 AM
Kien,
It would be way easier to just use the 15% water from your reef tank that you change weekly to do a 15% water change on your fowlr tank. Just re-use the reef water for your fowlr water changes. This will save you a lot of time, plumbing, and lots of money ( less salt and additives. Don't forget, if you're plumbing a 150 and 121 together, with sumps, you'll need to add additives to compensate for over 300 gallons.) There's nothing wrong with the water from your reef tank for a fowlr tank.
I currently drain about 20 gallons from my fowlr tank ( python straight into the sink) and refill with water from my 120 reef, then just add the new salt water into the reef. Lots less work than mixing 2 batches of salt all the time.

golf nut
03-02-2010, 07:56 AM
YES! My execution is slightly different but the principle is exactly the same. I think my picture is prettier (if maybe more convoluted) :biggrin::lol:

Before I ask any other misconstrued question is the rest of your picture drawn as you see the whole system functioning :)

kien
03-02-2010, 01:54 PM
Kien,
It would be way easier to just use the 15% water from your reef tank that you change weekly to do a 15% water change on your fowlr tank. Just re-use the reef water for your fowlr water changes. This will save you a lot of time, plumbing, and lots of money ( less salt and additives. Don't forget, if you're plumbing a 150 and 121 together, with sumps, you'll need to add additives to compensate for over 300 gallons.) There's nothing wrong with the water from your reef tank for a fowlr tank. I currently drain about 20 gallons from my fowlr tank ( python straight into the sink) and refill with water from my 120 reef, then just add the new salt water into the reef. Lots less work than mixing 2 batches of salt all the time.

hmm, that's not a bad idea actually. Only problem I see here though is the duplication of equipment which I'm hoping to avoid. Two skimmers, heaters, carbon reactors, etc.. The only additives I add are calcium and baking soda and those are cheap. If the plumbing turns out to be too daunting I will end up taking your approach :-)

Before I ask any other misconstrued question is the rest of your picture drawn as you see the whole system functioning :)

Yes :-)

burgerchow
03-02-2010, 07:32 PM
hmm, that's not a bad idea actually. Only problem I see here though is the duplication of equipment which I'm hoping to avoid. Two skimmers, heaters, carbon reactors, etc.. The only additives I add are calcium and baking soda and those are cheap. If the plumbing turns out to be too daunting I will end up taking your approach :-)




Yes :-)

Kien, all you need are a couple of heaters. If you do 20% water changes every week ( the old water from the reef), you might not even need a skimmer. All depends how many fish you have. Another reason you might want to keep it on a separate system is that you could hook up a u/v for the fowlr tank and not have to worry about ich or other diseases.

golf nut
03-03-2010, 12:04 AM
What is the purpose of the three individual baffles in the two sumps? especially the single one on the left end of the reef sump

kien
03-03-2010, 12:13 AM
What is the purpose of the three individual baffles in the two sumps? especially the single one on the left end of the reef sump

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0024.jpg?t=1248077010

The reef sump is an existing sump that already has 3 baffle sections in it. Each baffle section actually has 3 baffles. Left baffle was a refugium but really it just stores live rock now. Middle is the return (which will be reused), and the right is the skimmer section. I may redo that entire sump or just keep it. The baffles in the FOWLR sump serves no purpose. I'm not sure why I drew that line in.. :-) The FOWLR will just have one main sump which will hook into the reef sump via a 1 1/2 or 2" pipe, and a water change tank which will over flow into the fowlr sump.

golf nut
03-03-2010, 12:26 AM
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_0024.jpg?t=1248077010

The reef sump is an existing sump that already has 3 baffle sections in it. Each baffle section actually has 3 baffles. Left baffle was a refugium but really it just stores live rock now. Middle is the return (which will be reused), and the right is the skimmer section. I may redo that entire sump or just keep it. The baffles in the FOWLR sump serves no purpose. I'm not sure why I drew that line in.. :-) The FOWLR will just have one main sump which will hook into the reef sump via a 1 1/2 or 2" pipe, and a water change tank which will over flow into the fowlr sump.

so there is no flow in the left hand end area just static water with no way in or out?

kien
03-03-2010, 12:30 AM
so there is no flow in the left hand end area just static water with no way in or out?

Oh, sorry, that rockfugium is fed by a direct line from the mixed reef :-)

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_3723.jpg?t=1248428565

.. which is why I may replumb that whole sump.. if I can be bothered.

golf nut
03-03-2010, 12:35 AM
I am not trying to be picky, just trying to make sure you do it right the first time :)

kien
03-03-2010, 12:36 AM
I am not trying to be picky, just trying to make sure you do it right the first time :)

I don't have a problem with that! :biggrin: