Mac versu PC,{snicker,snicker}

[Doug]

I know we have hashed this to death and I will get 50% different answers but here goes anyways.

This is the Macs owners chance to speak out. Convince me. :mrgreen:

Still looking at new laptops. Close to the Mac purchase a couple times already. :lol: Yesterday, seen a new Sony with a 16.4in. screen. Back lit keys and a very nice layout. Has the i7 processor. I think 1.8GHz or something similar with a turbo boost to 2.8. Dont have that all figured out yet. :lol: 4g memory and me thinks hard drive was around 640gb.

Looks pretty fast. The Mac book had a 2.3GHz processor, 2g memory and 250 hard drive. But of course Mac owners still say thats as fast because its not loaded with crap. :lol:

Besides posting on Canreef and surfing other boards, I mostly read sports and news, etc. I do a lot of pics between family and reefing. Thus I like the Macs capability here.

So the Sony was $1299, may be on for $100 less this week. Mac is $1099, and pro is same as Sony. Smaller screen on mac is not an issue, as I have a 22in monitor to connect to. Decided either to go smaller like the 13in. for portability and keep my monitor or go larger than 16in. screen and chuck all my previous stuff.

Mac owners, sell me on why for the same price as the Sony I should get the Mac. :mrgreen:

[Crytone]

I'd go for whatever's cheaper and does what you want it to do. Macs are great but so are PCs. I will warn that with PC laptops I ALWAYS format them ASAP to get rid of the 'junkware' every manufacturer includes. I'm an avid PC user but I wouldn't hesitate to get a Mac is it was cheaper and ran what I wanted it to (2gig ram not enough for some of the programs I run unfortunately).

[Doug]

I'd go for whatever's cheaper and does what you want it to do. Macs are great but so are PCs. I will warn that with PC laptops I ALWAYS format them ASAP to get rid of the 'junkware' every manufacturer includes. I'm an avid PC user but I wouldn't hesitate to get a Mac is it was cheaper and ran what I wanted it to (2gig ram not enough for some of the programs I run unfortunately).


I think the Mac has the lesser of the included crap. Sony seems to be not bad, or even Gateway in comparison with HP. They seem to have lots of junkware, perhaps as they are such huge sellers.

[Ron99]

Once you go Mac, you never go back:lol:

Seriously though, I have used them all; Windows, Mac, various flavours of Unix and the Mac is the best integrated and user friendly. Also, aside from the lack of included bloatware you get a bunch of really useful free apps.

2 Gigs is no big deal. Memory is cheap and easy to install. Just don't buy it from Apple at their overinflated prices.

[chris121277]

I have been running Macs for about 8 years now, I have never run an anti virus, I open any email and go on any sight and have never, not even once had to re-format.

That alone is worth going Mac if you ask me

Also I have never had a Mac "crash" the worst thing that has ever happened to me was it froze (once in 8 years) all I had to do is re-boot and poof, good as new.

[Ian]

I am a PC fan for the simple reason that if you need to repair or upgrade down the road the PC will cost WAY less. Mac has improved in this regard but still has a long way to go. I have yet to crash a PC laptop and do only minor routine maintenance which is all scheduled .....but yeah choose the one that will do the best job of what you want is to do and cost you the least. Either could make you happy

[sphelps]

I considered a macbook when I was looking for a more portable notebook, the macbook was nice but for the money it was still missing a few things I wanted and would expect. I ended up getting an acer timeline special addition which not only saved me $400 but does more for me than the mac. Smaller and lighter which was a plus for me, more hard drive, more ram, similar LED monitor but a little slower of a processor which to me didn't seem to relevant since it's just a small portable laptop. However what really sold me was the card reader and the HDMI out with full HD capability. I also prefer the operating system, windows 7 is nice and familiar with equally good features and it's compatible with the rest of my life.

Anyways my point is don't think of mac and pc being so different and just focus on getting a notebook that best fits your needs and wants. I think if people do this 9 times out 10 there coming out with a PC and some extra coin in there pocket.

[Kryptic4L]

just buy my asus g2 thats gathering dust :)

[lastlight]

One of the things I like most about my MacBook pro is the very solid construction. No creaking plastic or flimsy screens. Made to last. Mine is almost 3 years old and still feels new.

[ealbay]

Have thought about a Hackintosh? Mac OS on intel processor or vmware. Fun and challenging project to do. Snow leopard installed on i7 920 overclocked to 4.2 ghz 6gb mem and 1t HD. Also running snow leopard in vmware. Get the best of both worlds. Snow leopard only cost $35 for the os.

[globaldesigns]

I currently run:
2 laptops with Windows XP
2 workstations with Windows XP
~20 Servers running Windows 2003 Server
2 Servers running Windows 2000 Server

I have run every O/S that Microsoft has ever run. Except for Windows 2000 Workstation, I have never had an issue. I have never had any BSOD (Blue Screens of Death) except for the Windows 2000 Workstation. I gotta say that was a bad one, but otherwise never had issues.

Currently my main workstation I use is with Windows XP, probably 4-5 years old and never had to reformat and start over.

So I don't know why others complain so much, I can say both PC and Mac are good. I choose PC because you can do more with it and if you are a gamer, PC will be the only way.

[PoonTang]

What a Mac?

[Joe Reefer]

Mac :thumb:

[Doug]

Thanks for the input so far guys. Appreciated. I see in todays Future shop flyer the Sony is a $100 off, so $1199. But still, for a $100 less the Mac Book or a $100 more for the Pro. Not sure what the pro advantage is besides the back lit keys and the casing?

[sphelps]

Thanks for the input so far guys. Appreciated. I see in todays Future shop flyer the Sony is a $100 off, so $1199. But still, for a $100 less the Mac Book or a $100 more for the Pro. Not sure what the pro advantage is besides the back lit keys and the casing?
Well back lit keys would be nice but it also has the aluminum body and card reader, I don't think it has much else.

[globaldesigns]

Thanks for the input so far guys. Appreciated. I see in todays Future shop flyer the Sony is a $100 off, so $1199. But still, for a $100 less the Mac Book or a $100 more for the Pro. Not sure what the pro advantage is besides the back lit keys and the casing?

Personally I would recommend a Toshiba for PC, I have had 2 HP's, but had nothing but problems with the mouse pad. I can't comment on Sony as I have never had one, but would say stick to companies that specialize in computer design and manufacturing. Sony, IMO, isn't one of them.

Here is a Toshiba of the same price:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-14-intel-core-i5-430m-2-27ghz-laptop-e200-002-blue-e200-002/10137887.aspx?path=6061e826bd1339a7cab04fa246e8cab den02

[Ron99]

Have thought about a Hackintosh? Mac OS on intel processor or vmware. Fun and challenging project to do. Snow leopard installed on i7 920 overclocked to 4.2 ghz 6gb mem and 1t HD. Also running snow leopard in vmware. Get the best of both worlds. Snow leopard only cost $35 for the os.

Might be fun but for long term compatibility and stability it is not the best way to go. you have to jump through hoops every time Apple releases a system update (which they do frequently) and there is no guarantee that future updates will be able to be hacked onto non Apple hardware.

As for the difference between the Macbook and the Macbook Pro, the main ones are:

1. Macbook has USB I/O vs. USB + Firewire + SD card slot in the Pro

2. Macbook supports up to 4GB Ram, Pro is up to 8GB

3. Pro can be configured with faster graphics chips and more VRAM and I think has more BTO configurations and options but that may not be important to you.


The other thing to remember is cost of extras you may need such as virus protection software etc. that you have to factor into the Windows PC costs as well. Make a list of total cost rather than just the cost of the machine itself.

[Doug]

Personally I would recommend a Toshiba for PC, I have had 2 HP's, but had nothing but problems with the mouse pad. I can't comment on Sony as I have never had one, but would say stick to companies that specialize in computer design and manufacturing. Sony, IMO, isn't one of them.

Here is a Toshiba of the same price:
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-14-intel-core-i5-430m-2-27ghz-laptop-e200-002-blue-e200-002/10137887.aspx?path=6061e826bd1339a7cab04fa246e8cab den02

Toshiba was my first preference when I first started looking actually but heard some stories about failures??

The one I liked was one step down from that one with the i3 but still 4m ram and 500 harddrive which is more than enough for me, plus I believe it has a 16in. screen and cheaper @ $799

[lastlight]

Never write-off the unibody aluminum case like that! Pick one up and then pickup the sony...you'll be sold. Much like I was with my nikon after i held it's canon competition.

[Doug]

Might be fun but for long term compatibility and stability it is not the best way to go. you have to jump through hoops every time Apple releases a system update (which they do frequently) and there is no guarantee that future updates will be able to be hacked onto non Apple hardware.

As for the difference between the Macbook and the Macbook Pro, the main ones are:

1. Macbook has USB I/O vs. USB + Firewire + SD card slot in the Pro

2. Macbook supports up to 4GB Ram, Pro is up to 8GB

3. Pro can be configured with faster graphics chips and more VRAM and I think has more BTO configurations and options but that may not be important to you.


The other thing to remember is cost of extras you may need such as virus protection software etc. that you have to factor into the Windows PC costs as well. Make a list of total cost rather than just the cost of the machine itself.

Thanks Ron. I have considered those into the mac. But do many not say viris protection will be needed one day? As for pc, I have, what I think is good protection available from my cable service provided. Its F-Secure but it was just to large for my desktop, so had to take it out and just use avg free for now. Thats one reason I need enough speed and memory, is to handle the F-Secure is I go pc.

I was impressed with the Macs photo software, which I would have to purchase for a pc to have the same quality.

[Crytone]

Another consideration should be for Asus. I own one of their laptops and it's been good for me. For the money it offered good options. I believe all Asus laptops (excluding their netbooks) include a 2 year warranty on everything but the battery (may include the battery for 6months, I forget) and I think 1 year 'accidental' warranty- spills, drops, power surges, etc..! Most manufacturers only offer 1 year and none of the accidental coverage (or very little). Might be worth looking into if more warranty interests you.

[Skimmerking]

Hmmmmmmmmm Doug just take the money and buy a new skimmer. problem solved

[Doug]

Another consideration should be for Asus. I own one of their laptops and it's been good for me. For the money it offered good options. I believe all Asus laptops (excluding their netbooks) include a 2 year warranty on everything but the battery (may include the battery for 6months, I forget) and I think 1 year 'accidental' warranty- spills, drops, power surges, etc..! Most manufacturers only offer 1 year and none of the accidental coverage (or very little). Might be worth looking into if more warranty interests you.

I was looking at one here after someone mentioned the same thing in a previous laptop thread. Then went back and it was sold. No more have come in since. Suppose I can always buy from Future Shop online.

It was equal to the Toshiba I mentioned, in almost everything but $200 cheaper.

[Doug]

Hmmmmmmmmm Doug just take the money and buy a new skimmer. problem solved

Well actually I am. A SWC 160 cone. Should do my 30 sps cube just nicely and still fit in my 20g sump. :mrgreen:

[spikehs]

Just a quick note about the Macbook Pros... they are currently overdue for a refresh, so the price/specs right now are pretty poor. I'd imagine the new ones are out in the next couple of months with better specs, making it a better value (although value wise, PC is the way to go).

That is if you are thinking of the macbook route. One thing to think about that made my decision to switch MUCH easier. Bootcamp. I have windows 7 and osx loaded up on my macbook, best of both worlds!

In general if you are looking at buying ANY apple product, check this page out first. Measures the average refresh cycle for all their products.
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

[karazy]

Another consideration should be for Asus. I own one of their laptops and it's been good for me. For the money it offered good options. I believe all Asus laptops (excluding their netbooks) include a 2 year warranty on everything but the battery (may include the battery for 6months, I forget) and I think 1 year 'accidental' warranty- spills, drops, power surges, etc..! Most manufacturers only offer 1 year and none of the accidental coverage (or very little). Might be worth looking into if more warranty interests you.

i agree 100%
like some aqaurium companies asus is a company that doesn't advetise much in north america, or much at all for that matter, but they are great.
i have played on a few and they are sweet.
everyone i know that has one is happy with it.
now you could look into alienware...but i wont get into that:twised:

[Slick Fork]

Get the computer that will run the software you want it to. Simple as that. A couple of "neat" free programs don't really mean much if the stuff you really want to run is incompatible. Mac has a good OS, so does Microsoft so it should really come down to the programs you want to run.

[Ron99]

Get the computer that will run the software you want it to. Simple as that. A couple of "neat" free programs don't really mean much if the stuff you really want to run is incompatible. Mac has a good OS, so does Microsoft so it should really come down to the programs you want to run.

That's the beauty of the Intel Macs. You can run either Mac OS or Windows. So use mac OS when you want to be productive and Windows if there is some junky piece of software you can't live without :eyebrows:

[bvlester]

buy an acer and run Linux mandrake on it much the same as Mac but a bit nicer in my opinion. I have a computer running it and I like it wife has MS and has a hard time learning new things now so she has a windows based system.

Bill

[es355lucille]

I have been a devoted PC user for years. I always thought that the price of the Mac's was too much to spend. We record with Protools on a PC.......and I have had nothing but problems....(Hardware and software driven issues)I know guys that have been running Mac's for recording and other high end programs and they don't have any of the issues that I run into.

.....soooo I just bit the bullet the other day and ordered a Mac Pro...... and believe me when I say....this is the most I have ever spent on a computer......maybe 3 of them combined!!!

It really depends on your needs. PC's I find I am always re-formating the hard-drive to clean them up and get them running efficiently again after about a year of service.

[kien]

I switched over to Macs about a year ago. Every once in a while I'll come across an app that I need to run in Windows but we no longer have a windows machine in the house. I ended up installing VMWare on our Macs (Parallels does the same thing). Pretty much lets you install full blown windows within your Mac. The integration of windows OS and windows apps running on the Mac is seamless (with either of those mentioned programs). Going the other way around (Running mac stuff on a Windows PC) is much more difficult and painful. :-)

[bvlester]

I have been a devoted PC user for years. I always thought that the price of the Mac's was too much to spend. We record with Protools on a PC.......and I have had nothing but problems....(Hardware and software driven issues)I know guys that have been running Mac's for recording and other high end programs and they don't have any of the issues that I run into.

.....soooo I just bit the bullet the other day and ordered a Mac Pro...... and believe me when I say....this is the most I have ever spent on a computer......maybe 3 of them combined!!!

It really depends on your needs. PC's I find I am always re-formating the hard-drive to clean them up and get them running efficiently again after about a year of service.

With any computer it all depends on how you treat them I have not turned this computer off for 3 years with the exception of thunder storms. I also have not reformatted or had to reinstall software the only drivers I have reinstalled are network card and printer drivers, thats it. I am starting to run out of room on the hard drive so I have a backpack portable hard drive.

I think part of my success is that I do not go to to many web sites I do not open any email that I do not know the sender of and span just gets deleted on sight. I do all updates that the operating system calls for and no more normally a service pack or some thing like that. I keep my anti-virus up to date check for now definitions every week. when really bad viruses go around I run up to 3 anti-virus programs at a time.

I know a person that records with a PC in Winnipeg in EK that does not have troubles. I don't know the program he is using iether that maybe a contributating factor.

Bill

[Murminator]

I run a macbook pro after about 3 months on convincing myself in needing a mac I never looked back never had a freeze up issue. Everyone can tell you how great it is i must say i like all the small details that come with it. Go through some of the tutorials on the righthand side to see them.

http://www.apple.com/startpage/

[Chase31]

i believe quality over quantity, one of my friends has a mac and they update (large updates) constantly, so either new computer or price of new op system, and he finds it frustrating (see this in ipods, there pushing to hard for new ones) and i run AVG free and haven't had any problems with updates, have had some errors but i like to fiddle with my computer (user errors)... i run AVG free so i dont pay a whole bunch for a crap nortan or other AV.
IMO AVG is better also... id say PC

[fkshiu]

I switched from running PCs for the last 20 years over to an iMac last year and the swap was seamless and utterly pain free. The iMac even recognized and runs my ancient Laserjet 4L without any issue.

I'm just a casual computer user and a bit of a closet Luddite so megabytes and gigahertz were actually of little consequence for me. I just wanted a computer that could edit AVCHD video and had a good photo editor out of the box. The Mac did that and seamlessly integrated my iPod Touch as well. Yes, I'm full into the Kool-Aid that Steve's serving up.

[Veng68]

I switched from running PCs for the last 20 years over to an iMac last year and the swap was seamless and utterly pain free. The iMac even recognized and runs my ancient Laserjet 4L without any issue.

I'm just a casual computer user and a bit of a closet Luddite so megabytes and gigahertz were actually of little consequence for me. I just wanted a computer that could edit AVCHD video and had a good photo editor out of the box. The Mac did that and seamlessly integrated my iPod Touch as well. Yes, I'm full into the Kool-Aid that Steve's serving up.

Which one did you get? I would love to get the 27 inch iMac but probably end up with the 21 incher. I will also dual boot it with Windows 7 for the best of both worlds :)

Cheers,
Vic

[Doug]

I run a macbook pro after about 3 months on convincing myself in needing a mac I never looked back never had a freeze up issue. Everyone can tell you how great it is i must say i like all the small details that come with it. Go through some of the tutorials on the righthand side to see them.

http://www.apple.com/startpage/

Thanks Murray. I will read that later today.

[Doug]

I switched from running PCs for the last 20 years over to an iMac last year and the swap was seamless and utterly pain free. The iMac even recognized and runs my ancient Laserjet 4L without any issue.

I'm just a casual computer user and a bit of a closet Luddite so megabytes and gigahertz were actually of little consequence for me. I just wanted a computer that could edit AVCHD video and had a good photo editor out of the box. The Mac did that and seamlessly integrated my iPod Touch as well. Yes, I'm full into the Kool-Aid that Steve's serving up.


Although I wanted to get away from a desktop, I do keep looking at the iMac for $1299. 3.06 duel core, 4g memory, 500gb harddrive, good graphics card and best of all, still only one plug in. Seems like everything I need. Just not portable but guess I can steal my wife,s IBM. :mrgreen:

[fishoholic]

We bought a mac mini this Christmas and I have to say I love my Mac! It is so much more user friendly, I don't know much about computers, so it helps that every app comes with step by step instructions on how to use it. I also find it runs a lot faster. It takes hardly any time at all to boot up/restart it and I find all the web pages load a lot faster then my PC did. Plus I don't have to run anti-virus software, and the programs/apps the Mac come with are really cool.

There is this app that is a picture of a red chair and it's called "front row" I can click on it and it shows me any movie trailer that I'd like to see and it shows me what is playing in the movie theaters close to me. There is also an app called "dashboard" and at any time you can click on it and (I set mine to have) a calender, clock, calculator, and the weather pop up on the screen just over top (sort of see through like) of your current screen.

The mac just makes everything easier for me to use and more convenient too. My name is Laurie and I'm a Mac! :wink: and honestly I'll never go back :mrgreen:

[StirCrazy]

Mac's are over rated now. 5 years ago ya I would have got a mack, but I have two laptops, and one desktop. the old laptop ran XP and I had a few problems but nothing that wasn't my own fault. the new laptop and the desktop run Vista. the desktop is almost 3 years old now, never reloaded, never had a problem. the only time it gets shut off is when I install updates wich is seldom now.

the lap top also runs 24/7 with no problems. one thing I did learn over the years is to stay away from free antivirius/firewall software there is a reason there free... think about it. also stay away from nortons it is a huge power hog. the best thing I have found believe it or not is microsoft one step live. 3 years on it now and never got a virius or any other problem.

now I have played with Mac my aunt gave me her power book for 3 months for me to try. I have always liked the look of mack but I can honestly say I found the operating system a pain in the A$$, the computer its self is slower than my laptop (and the mac cost 300 more) and thewre was a bunch of saoftware that I use that is not made for mack. this may or may not be an issue for most people. now I used the Mac as my only computer for 3 months as I was living in my RV just befor I movedi so it wasn't like I could just go back to my old ones, so I realy did give the mac a honest try.. and for my self I will never buy one.

so I guess.. Hi, My name is Steve and I'm a PC.. and windows 7 was my idea.

Steve

[Snaz]

Laserjet 4L

That is a great printer and I glad to see another one still chugging out pages. After that printer HP went to hell and and I would not recommend ANY of their products to anyone.

Oh and Windows 7 is awesome for a home and business.

[bignose]

I purchased a aluminum iMac 3 months ago and I think its amazing. They are pricey but they are worth it. The computer is absolutely silent and they look great.

[xtreme]

I have been using Apple computers for 25 years at home and with having to put up with Windows machines at work I would never buy one for personal use. And like already mentioned if you still need to run the odd windows application you can!

[pinhead]

Here's an interesting article to stir up the Mac vs. PC argument http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html

The patent for point #1 is interesting - http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2009/10/apple-prepares-to-rock-the-market-with-hardware-subsidizing-program.html

but I can imagine the headlines if someone can't call 911 on their iphone because Apple is forcing you to watch one of their ads and locks up your hardware until you look at it.

[mr.wilson]

I'm happy with my Macs (17" Macbookpro, G5 Tower, G4 Tower, Iphone). My wife has a Sony Vaio and has had no problems with hardware, but the operating system (Vista) crashes every two or three months sometimes more often.

It's possible that Windows 7 will fix these problems, but I don't see what I would gain in switching to a Windows machine.

[Crytone]

Vista was a catastrophe but I've been running Windows 7 since Beta and have never crashed and had no problems. It's much improved over Vista and I prefer it over XP even (my favorite OS for many years now).

What I don't understand about Apple is they have no problems with users running Bootcamp, VMware, Parallels, etc.. to be able to install a Windows operating system on an Apple. BUT they are adamantly against anyone installing their OSX on anything but Macs. How is that playing fair?!

I ran a dualboot 'Hackintosh' for a while but always went back to XP since I was a gamer. For a general use (ie- no games!) I think Macs are great though!

[Ron99]

Here's an interesting article to stir up the Mac vs. PC argument http://www.cracked.com/article_18377_5-reasons-you-should-be-scared-apple.html

The patent for point #1 is interesting - http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2009/10/apple-prepares-to-rock-the-market-with-hardware-subsidizing-program.html

but I can imagine the headlines if someone can't call 911 on their iphone because Apple is forcing you to watch one of their ads and locks up your hardware until you look at it.

Stupid article, sorry. It's kind of biased to make things look bad when they really aren't as the writer describes. Do you really believe Apple would lock you out of calling 911? They tend to be a bit smarter then that :smile: And the article says that other phone makers let you do whatever you want to. Right. Ever had a cell phone with USB connectivity disabled so you couldn't do photo transfers etc. directly to your computers so that the carriers could charge you for sending them etc.?



What I don't understand about Apple is they have no problems with users running Bootcamp, VMware, Parallels, etc.. to be able to install a Windows operating system on an Apple. BUT they are adamantly against anyone installing their OSX on anything but Macs. How is that playing fair?!


Steve jobs is a perfectionist and he feels that strictly controlling the hardware and software combination ensures the user experience they want and avoids both the nescesity of supporting umpteen hardware configurations and also the possibility of problems and issues due to strange hardware configurations. For a few peoeple who like to pimp their own computer or fiddle with hardware etc that may be a problem and you may not agree with it but for the vast majority having something that just works without having to worry about whether your hardware is supported or compatible with everything else you want to install is better. I think the only reason they let you run Windows in one way or another is to help convert Windows users over so they can still run Windows apps if they want or need to. Sell more Macs that way. One computer to rule them all:lol:

[fkshiu]

For a few peoeple who like to pimp their own computer or fiddle with hardware etc that may be a problem and you may not agree with it but for the vast majority having something that just works without having to worry about whether your hardware is supported or compatible with everything else you want to install is better.

Bingo. This is what your average everyday non-geek computer user wants - simplicity. And it's the reason why (along with some brilliant marketing) that Apple's market share has grown so much against PCs recently.

[Funky_Fish14]

Aside from Gaming (which restricts you to PC only if you really want to game), then IMO they are different but equal machines. Each has their own advantages/disadvantages.

PC's are easier to 'screw-up' for the average user/less 'stupid-move' friendly. But if you do use it correctly(Ie: not opening bad mail or visiting unknown sites, other stuff like that) then they operate fantastically. My family has been PC users forever, my Dad always upgrades the lap-top, etc... I have a 4 year old desktop that was $2K on purchase... it still runs like a champ and is still a very good/fast/reliable computer. I do however take moderate care of it (but stupid stuff can still result in problems, I have found PC's are always more vulnerable 'in their daily lives'). I love my PC desktop and would not get rid of it.

In the last few years I've also gotten in to macs. In late november I purchased a macbook pro and I am loving it. The user interface took a slight bit of getting used to but is fantastic. I mean the keyboard and desktop, window buttons, shortcuts, etc.. The computer is incredibly well-built (as mentioned by others), much better than anybody's PC laptops. It is silent, and rarely gets warm (unless I really really really push it). Even when warm, Its never uncomfortable.

The mac has many great programs out of the box and with the Iwork program installed, it is actually just fine for me as a school computer (this was the point of purchasing it, but I've found it to work just as well for my daily life, and it is fast too). Some features PC's have that it doesnt, I miss, but there is little to dislike about it. Also, mine has actually fallen 4' once, and dropped 3' another time, and it was completely unharmed.

I prefer the PC's as desktop, great workhorse, good for 'work' stuff... and the Mac is awesome as a 'daily living' computer, if that makes any sense? I personally dont like desktop macs, and I dont like PC laptops. I find the mac laptop is more convenient and I am never really working 'on the go' so it suits my needs very well.

If there is a store around you available... go get a staff member to take you through a Mac computer, and show you all the stuff about it. Play around with it for a little while. Go to the store and browse canreef on it for an hour or something. Then go check out the PC you are looking at. Using the computers (and getting someone to show you what they can do, particularly for the macs this is helpful) will be the best way to make your choice.

Cheers,

Chris

[lastlight]

I prefer the PC's as desktop

Fire up a MacPro with a Cinema HD screen and please post back =) Heck even a 24" iMac...great desktop that takes UP very little desktop.

[StirCrazy]

Bingo. This is what your average everyday non-geek computer user wants - simplicity. And it's the reason why (along with some brilliant marketing) that Apple's market share has grown so much against PCs recently.


yup, from 11.5% to 15% in 6 years.

Steve

[fishoholic]

So Doug have we helped or made it harder to decide?

[Doug]

So Doug have we helped or made it harder to decide?


Helping for sure. But no decision. I almost decided to buy the iMac I mentioned for $1299. Now the boss informs me that my aquarium/office room is changing.

Getting rid of all the clutter and my desk on the wall opposite my tank and putting in some kind of couch thingy but I also get a flatscreen, {albeit smaller sized}, for the wall in my little hide-a-way.

So, back to the laptop search. Guess I need a larger screen on it now, if my montitor is gone also. Unless I can hook it to the tv screen. :smile:

[Snaz]

So, back to the laptop search. Guess I need a larger screen on it now,

Larger screen on a laptop just means more weight, it's all that glass. The trend in our company three years ago was everyone wanted the new wide screen laptops and so we bought a lot. Now a few sore backs later everyone requests light 14" screens and they plug them into external flat screens that sit on their desks.

Trust me even if you have Herculean strength will regret lugging around a heavy laptop.

[Parker]

Larger screen on a laptop just means more weight, it's all that glass. The trend in our company three years ago was everyone wanted the new wide screen laptops and so we bought a lot. Now a few sore backs later everyone requests light 14" screens and they plug them into external flat screens that sit on their desks.

Trust me even if you have Herculean strength will regret lugging around a heavy laptop.


Agreed 100% I hate having to lug my laptop when I travel. In the office I have a docking station with a large flat screen. Although my docking station probably takes up just as much space a desk-top would, but I'm sure you could find away around that.

[mr.wilson]

I hated my 17" laptop for the first year, as I was traveling and working with it (carrying it) every day. Now that I just use it at home, I enjoy the big screen. I can have a few windows open & viewable at the same time and I can watch movies on it comfortably. I use my tower less often than I would with a 15" screen version.

If I was taking it to work daily, I would definitely go with a 15" model for sure. It is very heavy, off balance and needs two hands even to pick it up off of the floor when it is open. The 15" version of what I have is like cell phone in comparison.

The other problem with a 17" screen is everyone knows you are carrying an expensive computer in your bag. Not so good walking at night in a rough neighbourhood or when you want to leave your bag somewhere.

On another front, the speakers & sound is much better on the Macbook Pro than with my wife's Sony Vaio. I also find the Sony's glossy screen really annoying. You need a mat screen to watch video. I don't know if Sony has this as an upgrade or not. It used to be standard with macbook Pro, but now it's an add on.

[StirCrazy]

now that were on the size topic, the biggest I would recomend is a 15" wide screen. my Dad has the 17" and man is it huge and heavy. I wanted the bigger screen but when I realy thought about it I use my laptop in the truck as my GPS, I take it in the RV on hollidays, when I was in the navy it went with me on the ship to other countries, so it travels a lot.. my old laptop is a 15" normal screen so I opted for the 15" wide screen. just between the standard and wide format is a huge differance, and I am glass I didn't go with the 17" 32" LED TV's have come down so much in price you could always mount on on the wall above your desk and just plug into that..

Steve

[mr.wilson]

I don't think any 17" laptop owner would argue, they are exponentially heavier than 15". I was constantly shifting from arm to arm carrying it long distances. It's even hard to fit under an airplane seat or even on the fold down table. I would have gladly traded mine in for a 15" at the time. I even considered buying the 13" Macbook Air as a second portable laptop. With internal optic or CD drive and a ridiculous price tag, I quickly came to my senses.

The mat screen version of the Macbook has no glass, but it's got lots of metal :) The 15" Macbook Pro seemed much lighter than the Sony Vaio. Maybe it's the lack of glass and smaller profile of the Mac?

[Doug]

Ah yes, however I,m not purchasing for portability. Thats a second feature for me. I want the simlicity of a laptop compared with the junk sitting on my desk now. Thats why I seriously looked at the iMac instead. However if the missis is putting a couch thingy where my desk is, kind of hard to have a desktop or even my current 22in. monitor to hook the laptop to.

[Funky_Fish14]

Fire up a MacPro with a Cinema HD screen and please post back =) Heck even a 24" iMac...great desktop that takes UP very little desktop.

All the things I really sit at a desk for Im using PC functions anyways. (like Excel, word, or other PC based school/work related stuff). I just dont like the macs in this scenario. My Ex's family is all macs (Except the father has a bunch of desktop PCs & macs combined for work), I've used the Imacs and MacPro before... just not my style. Plus I HATE HATE HATE the Apple mouse. Lol. But I love love love the trackpad on the new macbooks 10X more than on any PC laptop I've ever seen.

(My desktop doesnt take up ANY desk space anyways... screen is mounted back and hanging upside down, so no desk surface contact, and the tower is town below desk and away). Only things on my desk are my cordless trackball mouse and the keyboard. :razz: ) I do like the display/video quality on the mac desktops though :)

[Doug]

All the things I really sit at a desk for Im using PC functions anyways. (like Excel, word, or other PC based school/work related stuff). I just dont like the macs in this scenario. My Ex's family is all macs (Except the father has a bunch of desktop PCs & macs combined for work), I've used the Imacs and MacPro before... just not my style. Plus I HATE HATE HATE the Apple mouse. Lol. But I love love love the trackpad on the new macbooks 10X more than on any PC laptop I've ever seen.

(My desktop doesnt take up ANY desk space anyways... screen is mounted back and hanging upside down, so no desk surface contact, and the tower is town below desk and away). Only things on my desk are my cordless trackball mouse and the keyboard. :razz: ) I do like the display/video quality on the mac desktops though :)

I also wish to eliminate the numerous plug ins and cords.
Agreed, the trackpad is a major attraction on the laptops. The others dont even compare, IMO. You dont like the magic mouse. :smile: I figured it was pretty neat.

[Samw]

This will be my next laptop. Alienware M11x.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/alienware-m11x/pd.aspx?refid=alienware-m11x&cs=19&s=dhs

[Ron99]

Until now Apple mice have sucked big time. I have never used any of the mice that came with my Macs and have replaced them with Logitech ones right away. However, I recently tried the new magic mouse and I have to say that may be the first Apple mouse I use. It worked really well.

[StirCrazy]

I don't think I will ever buy a mouse for a laptop again.. and for the record I hate the pad on the laptop also. but I found the answer and I am inlove.. it is sooo nice, responcive and versitile.

http://www.wacom.com/bamboo/bamboo_pen_touch.php

I am thinking of getting a bigger version for my desktop now.

Steve

[Slick Fork]

Stir Crazy, that looks cool where do you pick one up?

[Chase31]

Stir Crazy, that looks cool where do you pick one up?

https://direct.wacom.com/stores/5/BAMBOO_C137.cfm
http://www.wacom.com/wheretobuy/

[StirCrazy]

staples has them on sale right now.. just seen it in there flyer.

Steve

[Doug]

I don't think I will ever buy a mouse for a laptop again.. and for the record I hate the pad on the laptop also


Not on a Mac Book. :wink:


Thats looks good though. Showed my wife the video or at leasy my poc computers version. :lol: I wonder if it would be easier on my hand.

[StirCrazy]

Not on a Mac Book. :wink:


Thats looks good though. Showed my wife the video or at leasy my poc computers version. :lol: I wonder if it would be easier on my hand.



I have been doing a lot of photo editing laitly. using the pen is way nicer than using a mouse. it took me a day or two to get used to the set up but now I fly.

I just find the touch pads built into the laptops to small, and some of them are not as sensitive as others. and then some you can customize and some you can't (or I just can't figure out how to)

with the bamboo, if you use it as a touch pad it works like your laptop touch pad just bigger and to me in a more natural position instead of under the key board, but if you use the pen then it is a repesentation of the screen and if you put the pen to the middle it is in the middle of the screen, top left is top left of the screen and so one. one nice thing is the pen has a hover mode.. if you are with in so much of the pad it will show the curser movment on the screen so you can hover then double tap with the pen.

Steve

[fkshiu]

Ah yes, however I,m not purchasing for portability. Thats a second feature for me. I want the simlicity of a laptop compared with the junk sitting on my desk now. Thats why I seriously looked at the iMac instead. However if the missis is putting a couch thingy where my desk is, kind of hard to have a desktop or even my current 22in. monitor to hook the laptop to.

I got the iMac with wireless keyboard and mouse. Usually, there are only 2 wires on the desk: the iMac power cord and the cable to the printer.

[Doug]

I have been doing a lot of photo editing laitly. using the pen is way nicer than using a mouse. it took me a day or two to get used to the set up but now I fly.

I just find the touch pads built into the laptops to small, and some of them are not as sensitive as others. and then some you can customize and some you can't (or I just can't figure out how to)

with the bamboo, if you use it as a touch pad it works like your laptop touch pad just bigger and to me in a more natural position instead of under the key board, but if you use the pen then it is a repesentation of the screen and if you put the pen to the middle it is in the middle of the screen, top left is top left of the screen and so one. one nice thing is the pen has a hover mode.. if you are with in so much of the pad it will show the curser movment on the screen so you can hover then double tap with the pen.

Steve

So could someone also write a post here, instead of typing it ?

[Doug]

I got the iMac with wireless keyboard and mouse. Usually, there are only 2 wires on the desk: the iMac power cord and the cable to the printer.

Yes, forgot the printer cord but was looking at wireless during my laptop hunt. I do have a nice and recently new wired printer sitting here though, so it would be a shame to just chuck it. Mind you Future Shop usually has great deals on wireless when you purchase a laptop or perhaps something like the iMac also.

[StirCrazy]

So could someone also write a post here, instead of typing it ?

yup, just click on the post box with the pen and it opens a hadnwriting box . you write your post then click ok and it inserts it.. simple and even reconizes my had writing which I was very impressed with :mrgreen:
I got the smaller one wich I think is a 4X6 writing area, but there is a 8X10 one also.. I just couldn't justifiy the extra money and the smaller on tucks into a pocket in my laptop case as it is about 4mm thick.

Steve

[Doug]

Thanks Steve. I will mention it to my wife. She was asking me after I showed her the device. Did see them on sale today also.

[Doug]

Just came home from FS. They have a Mac Book Pro, open box, sitting there for $1149.

And the 16in. i3, 4g, Toshiba is on sale for $699.


Then I spent some time on the iMac, surfing Canreef. :lol: Gonna drive myself crazy soon. :lol:

[mr.wilson]

Just came home from FS. They have a Mac Book Pro, open box, sitting there for $1149.

And the 16in. i3, 4g, Toshiba is on sale for $699.


Then I spent some time on the iMac, surfing Canreef. :lol: Gonna drive myself crazy soon. :lol:

The macBook Pro will still be running smoothly and relatively current five years from now. The Toshiba on the other hand will be sitting broken and obsolete on a shelf in your basement :)

My Mac G4 Tower from 1999 still works flawlessly and pretty damn quick for a 400 MHZ processor. My G5 Tower is from 2005 and I have no reason to update it for a few more years. My 17" MacBook Pro is two years old now, and looks like it will be with me for a few more years.

With a replacement track record of every five years, that's a lot better than I was getting with my old PC's.

[kien]

Just came home from FS. They have a Mac Book Pro, open box, sitting there for $1149.

And the 16in. i3, 4g, Toshiba is on sale for $699.


Then I spent some time on the iMac, surfing Canreef. :lol: Gonna drive myself crazy soon. :lol:

Wow, your Fish Store sells mac books?!!??

[fkshiu]

Wow, your Fish Store sells mac books?!!??

There's actually a Mac dealer right next door to J&L Aquatics so maybe that's what he's referring to? :)

[Doug]

:D I went back and looked at the Pro again. Its still there. :lol:

[Slick Fork]

The macBook Pro will still be running smoothly and relatively current five years from now. The Toshiba on the other hand will be sitting broken and obsolete on a shelf in your basement :)

My Mac G4 Tower from 1999 still works flawlessly and pretty damn quick for a 400 MHZ processor. My G5 Tower is from 2005 and I have no reason to update it for a few more years. My 17" MacBook Pro is two years old now, and looks like it will be with me for a few more years.

With a replacement track record of every five years, that's a lot better than I was getting with my old PC's.

That doesn't mean it will run todays software. I have an ancient toshiba "laptop" sitting in my basement, it doesn't even have an optical drive... running windows 95. It fires up just fine, all the programs on it still work, but I don't kid myself into thinking that it is an acceptable alternative to anything unless I have a burning desire to run 15 year old programs. My Iphone has more computing power than that thing.

Any computer, whether it be a mac or pc will cease to be current in 6 months and obsolete in two years. If all you want to do is surf the web then yes your 10 year old G4 tower is just fine. However if that's all your doing a $200 netbook will outperform that and be portable.

Doug: I would absolutely suggest that if the Toshiba is almost half the price then that's the way you should go. Unless you NEED a certain program that only runs on one or the other than go with price and $500 buys a lot of other nice things.

[Ron99]

That doesn't mean it will run todays software. I have an ancient toshiba "laptop" sitting in my basement, it doesn't even have an optical drive... running windows 95. It fires up just fine, all the programs on it still work, but I don't kid myself into thinking that it is an acceptable alternative to anything unless I have a burning desire to run 15 year old programs. My Iphone has more computing power than that thing.

Any computer, whether it be a mac or pc will cease to be current in 6 months and obsolete in two years. If all you want to do is surf the web then yes your 10 year old G4 tower is just fine. However if that's all your doing a $200 netbook will outperform that and be portable.

Doug: I would absolutely suggest that if the Toshiba is almost half the price then that's the way you should go. Unless you NEED a certain program that only runs on one or the other than go with price and $500 buys a lot of other nice things.

Actually, I have to disagree. Macs can usually run the latest software and operating systems for many years. I have only upgraded machines every 4 to 6 years. And most of my older Macs have seen service for years after that with other people who didn't need to do anything fancy with them. Apple made the transition to intel processors almost 5 years ago and only over the last 6 months has software and the new version of the operating system been released that only supports the intel processor Macs. And with intel processors in all new macs you probably won't have to deal with that kind of transition for the foreseeable future.

Any Mac you buy today will happily run anything you need to for years to come. The only reason to upgrade a machine every year or two is if you are a hardcore gamer and need the latest greatest top speed components or you are an imaging pro who needs the fastest speed you can get for work efficiency.

[StirCrazy]

The macBook Pro will still be running smoothly and relatively current five years from now. The Toshiba on the other hand will be sitting broken and obsolete on a shelf in your basement :)

My Mac G4 Tower from 1999 still works flawlessly and pretty damn quick for a 400 MHZ processor. My G5 Tower is from 2005 and I have no reason to update it for a few more years. My 17" MacBook Pro is two years old now, and looks like it will be with me for a few more years.

With a replacement track record of every five years, that's a lot better than I was getting with my old PC's.

hmm my toshiba a10 has been around ther world 6 times in the last 8 years and still works fine. just to slow for new games that need huge graphic cards. oh I did replace a hard drive in it 3 years ago..

Steve

[Doug]

Just as a point of fact. I,m no gamer. I surf, e-mail and do lots of photo stuff, {one reason the Mac appealed to me.

Thanks for the info Slick Fork. And Ron also. Will consider it.

I was factoring costs today. Looked at the HP, pretty fast and with a 17in. screen. But figured on adding the 3yr. warrenty, price comes out the same as the mac, which I figure can get by on its 1yr. warrenty because of its reliability. So if I went Toshiba, I wonder if this would be similar and an extended warrenty required.

Also as mentioned in regards to photo editing, Mac has a very good one. With the pc I would just use the crappy one I have now or purchase a decent one, which now again adds to the price.

[StirCrazy]

Any Mac you buy today will happily run anything you need to for years to come. The only reason to upgrade a machine every year or two is if you are a hardcore gamer and need the latest greatest top speed components or you are an imaging pro who needs the fastest speed you can get for work efficiency.

hey that holds true for PCs also. I upgraded my desktop after 8 years, my laptop after 7 or 8, the previous desktop was 6 years old.. hmm every upgrade was for a game.... I actualy still use my old laptop in the shop for my referance material, and to run my auto diagnostic program.. and surfing the net, e-mail, ect.. got the new laptop so I could play big time games when I was at sea.

[Doug]

Plus another $100 for set up on the pc,s because they have so much crap on them and being the computer dufus I am, I cant do it. Its my belief thats not really needed on the Mac?

[Slick Fork]

Actually, I have to disagree. Macs can usually run the latest software and operating systems for many years. I have only upgraded machines every 4 to 6 years. And most of my older Macs have seen service for years after that with other people who didn't need to do anything fancy with them. Apple made the transition to intel processors almost 5 years ago and only over the last 6 months has software and the new version of the operating system been released that only supports the intel processor Macs. And with intel processors in all new macs you probably won't have to deal with that kind of transition for the foreseeable future.

Any Mac you buy today will happily run anything you need to for years to come. The only reason to upgrade a machine every year or two is if you are a hardcore gamer and need the latest greatest top speed components or you are an imaging pro who needs the fastest speed you can get for work efficiency.

I think that's sort of what I was trying to say. You can browse the web, look at pictures and type letters on any 10 year old PC running windows 98se or Windows XP.

If you're gaming or doing heavy photo editing you need something more current, be it mac or PC. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Mac but I don't see them having this magical edge over a PC... certainly not to the tune of double the price

[Ron99]

Plus another $100 for set up on the pc,s because they have so much crap on them and being the computer dufus I am, I cant do it. Its my belief thats not really needed on the Mac?

Correct. No need to remove bloatware on the Mac :biggrin:

[Slick Fork]

Something else to consider when we are talking longevity. Upgrading RAM is usually the only thing you can do on a notebook other than the hard drive. If you look here at the apple store

http://store.apple.com/ca/memorymodel/ME_15_306_MBP

You'll see that the 8gig upgrade is almost $900

Check out memory express for PC RAM

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/Computers(ME)/ComputerComponents(ME)/Memory(ME)/NotebookMemory(ME)/NotebookDDR3SDRAM(ME)/Default.aspx

And voila half price RAM! as far as the crappy windows photo editing software goes, you're right on that one... however if you are planning on getting the bamboo pad anyways it comes with Photoshop Elements which I use and am VERY happy with it.

[Ron99]

Something else to consider when we are talking longevity. Upgrading RAM is usually the only thing you can do on a notebook other than the hard drive. If you look here at the apple store

http://store.apple.com/ca/memorymodel/ME_15_306_MBP

You'll see that the 8gig upgrade is almost $900

Check out memory express for PC RAM

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/Computers(ME)/ComputerComponents(ME)/Memory(ME)/NotebookMemory(ME)/NotebookDDR3SDRAM(ME)/Default.aspx

And voila half price RAM! as far as the crappy windows photo editing software goes, you're right on that one... however if you are planning on getting the bamboo pad anyways it comes with Photoshop Elements which I use and am VERY happy with it.

But really only a dumba$$ buys RAM upgrades from Apple :lol: They have been overpriced forever. Macs use standard memory just like PCs and upgrading is pretty staraightforward so it shouldn't cost any more than a RAM upgrade for a PC. I have done all my own RAM upgrades for as long as I can remember. Upgrading the HD is a bit more work but I also just put a 500GB 7200 RPM drive in my Macbook Pro and it was pretty straightforward either then being delicate when opening the computer up to do it. Start by putting the new drive in an external enclosure, connect to the Mac, use disk utility to clone the drive, swap the new drive into the Macbook and the old into the enclosure, reboot the Mac that starts up flawlessly with the new drive and reformat the old drive in the enclosure for a nice portable 200GB drive.

Upgrading RAM is as simple as removing the bottom plate with a screwdriver and installing RAM modules. It's really easy.

[Ron99]

Also, if you are interested in photo editing go Mac. iPhoto is pretty good out off the box unless you want to do really advanced digital editing. Then the cost of software is the same whether you are on the Mac or PC.

[freerider]

been a pc guy forever, and have probably gone through 5-6 labtops in 10 years.. damn motherboards.
anyways the girlfriend is in Australia for a few months and left me her mac book...because my hp..is broked.
this thing is amazing, gonna have to buy one when she gets back. havent had it that long, but all my friends are using macs and havent had any problems at all. the built in firewall keeps everything out.
take it from a guy that destroys computers.. i dont dont think i could hurt this thing

[Ron99]

Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Mac but I don't see them having this magical edge over a PC... certainly not to the tune of double the price

Oh yeah, just wanted to comment on this. The whole thing about Macs costing twice as much is really a myth. When you do price comparisons of apples to apples (sorry for the pun) comparing equally equipped Macs and PCs the prices are fairly competitive. the Macs sometimes may come out slightly more expensive but you then have to consider the included software as well as fewer headaches with the OS.

[Doug]

Love the discussion guys. Thanks.

I did happen to see the photo shop with the bamboo pad I looked at yesterday. Was adding it into the equation. That again adds another $100 to the cost of the PC though. I think with the nice touch pad on the Mac,s I would be fine as is. Agreed its no bamboo pad though.

If the Toshiba could get away without additional warranty it be $899 with a pad and/or $999 with the crap cleaned out, unless I could do it myself. Once I get over that $1000 mark I head back to the Macs. :lol:

Of course the Toshiba has 4g ram and 500gb hard drive compared with the 2g and smaller hard drive on the Mac. Then again I need the 4g just to be able to run my F-Secure on the PC.

As for adding ram on a Mac, Future Shop charges just over $200 for 2 more on the Mac Book. The iMac, which is already a couple hundred more, has 4g already plus a 500gb hard drive.

[Slick Fork]

If the costs come close, get the one you like. Simple as that!

I didn't realize you could get away with buying regular PC components for upgrades. I always thought apple forced proprietary hardware on people. That's good to know and a point in apples favour.

I will disagree with you Ron though, on the headaches with the OS. The people that have problems are typically the ones that don't know to use an anti-virus program or just plain old common sense. Or, they're the ones that try to put the latest OS on last decades hardware. I've run Win95,98se,XP,Vista and now 7 and have never had problems that weren't of my own creation.

Apples security "edge" is because it's typically not worth the time for hackers to write viruses for when there are 100x as many PC's to target as there are Mac's. Not because it's a more secure OS. The comparison I would use is a nice mercedes sitting beside an old beater. The mercedes is 10x as likely to have the window smashed and the glovebox looted through, while you could leave the doors unlocked on the beater and no-one would touch it... doesn't make the beater more secure.

Back to Doug:

If you are photo editing, after the processor the 2 things that are CRITICAL are hard drive space and RAM. The average size of even my JPEG's is about 10mb each (saving in highest quality) and my raw files are about 15mb.

4GB's of RAM on a win7 equipped PC is lots, that's what I have on my desktop. More is better but 4 is just fine.

A 500 gig hard drive should do you for a while! I've got 750 and sometimes think about just putting stuff on there so it doesn't look so empty :mrgreen:

[fishoholic]

:D I went back and looked at the Pro again. Its still there. :lol:

Why is it still there, you need to buy it already! You seem to want to go that route but you keep hesitating due to cost. I say screw the cost and go for it, I guarantee you wont regret buying a Mac :mrgreen:

[StirCrazy]

Oh yeah, just wanted to comment on this. The whole thing about Macs costing twice as much is really a myth. When you do price comparisons of apples to apples (sorry for the pun) comparing equally equipped Macs and PCs the prices are fairly competitive. the Macs sometimes may come out slightly more expensive but you then have to consider the included software as well as fewer headaches with the OS.

actualy I was looking at macs when I bought this also.. the price is more competitive, well better than a couple years ago when they were double the price. the equivalant mac was 500 to 700 more than the windows machine last year, not in the market for anything this year so they might be a little closer, but apple isn't going to have a 25+% price drop in 12 months. price reason was one of the reasons I stayed with PC. um included software.. not much different.. little more on the PC if you don't like it it is simple to remove.. come on guys this isn't win 95 anymore. vista is stable as hell, I had less crashes with vista on a 6 month trip than my buddys new mac notebook. he had a wack of problems I didn't have any.. so I wish people would stop using data from win95 98/ ME to compare there macs to.

um elements doesn't come with with the bamboo touch and pen.. you need to move up to there 3or 400 buck pen only pad to get that . mind you costco sells elements 8 for 99ish.

another pain in the but is if you have had PCs and you own all kinds of software for PC are you going to run out and rebuy it all? oh you could run a windows boot on a mack machine, but hell for that matter get the cheeper toshiba and run a apple partition on it. I did that for a while.. oh while you at it put a BEOS partition (best OS ever made, but it was killed by a lack of advertising) and heck how about a linex partition.. you can do it all on a PC machine now that apple used PC chips. you could befor anyways using VM (virtual machine) I just don't see the reason to spend the extra money on the same thing. apple software like Itunes, ect is the worst thing ever made.. it forces you to do everything its way.. I tried it and I liked some of the stuff but then I found out it automaticly converted my MP3s to the Mu4 or what ever the aple extension is and deleted my MP3s with out asking me as apple wants to push its compression platform and fade out mp3. windoes has there own also as we all know but at least when it converts it doesn't delete your originals.

anyways mac vs PC, might as well started a thread skimmer vs skimmer less (need skimmers) , or T5 vs MH (we all know we need MH and T5s are only good to add blue tinting to your tank)


oh there is something I love about apple.. the PC mac comercials I think that is very good markiting even if it is misleading

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Just as a point of fact. I,m no gamer. I surf, e-mail and do lots of photo stuff, {one reason the Mac appealed to me.



I do a tone of phot editing also. not a reason to get a mac. the photo editing is why i bought that pen pad and then spent a whopping 99 bucks on photoshop elements 8. years ago I would have had the suite for free but I can proudly say everything on my computer is legal now. well in canada anyways :mrgreen:

the money you save buying the toshiba will buy you the bigger pen pad, awsome software for editing photos and a few corals for your tank.

Steve

[Doug]

LOL Steve. This is a great thread with lots of info for others looking without great knowledge like me.

I disagree, the photo editing on the Mac is an important reason to look at them. Thats why I said if I could keep the Toshiba,s end cost well under the Mac, then it would be a shoo in but seems not to be the case.

What software. :lol: Dont think I have any extra but then could and dont know it. :lol:

Laurie, When I look at the pro, the price is close enough to the iMac, so I cross the isle to look at it again, with its large screen. :lol:

Anyone think the larger 17in. screen HP is a decent deal @ $700, but with 3 yr. warrenty added? It has the cheaper company processor, dont recall the name, but at least its their new model. Ot better to stick with Intel processor.

[StirCrazy]

LOL Steve. This is a great thread with lots of info for others looking without great knowledge like me.

I disagree, the photo editing on the Mac is an important reason to look at them. Thats why I said if I could keep the Toshiba,s end cost well under the Mac, then it would be a shoo in but seems not to be the case.

What software. :lol: Dont think I have any extra but then could and dont know it. :lol:

Laurie, When I look at the pro, the price is close enough to the iMac, so I cross the isle to look at it again, with its large screen. :lol:

Anyone think the larger 17in. screen HP is a decent deal @ $700, but with 3 yr. warrenty added? It has the cheaper company processor, dont recall the name, but at least its their new model. Ot better to stick with Intel processor.

would need to see the modle numbers.

Apple used to be the choice for graphic design about 20 years ago. but now there is no differance in which computer to use. I just looked up the Iphoto to see what it was like. it is not a real photo editor, it is a organization/share/red eye fix up program like windows photo editor. so if you want to do more advanced photo editing you will still need to buy something on either computer. is it an AMD processor? I wouldn't realy call them the cheeper company.. prices are lower but chip is not cheeper, I personaly prefer AMD chips over Intell, but I would need to know which chip to know how good it is.. best thing to do is to go to FS again and write the modle numbers down for the two computers then post them so they can be compared.

Steve

[Doug]

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-pavilion-17-3-amd-athlon-ii-dual-core-m320-2-1ghz-laptop-dv7-3128ca-dv7-3128ca/10137979.aspx?path=34244322cd7ea82056eeec03eb47191 fen02

[Doug]

Here is the Toshiba thats on this week. Regular is $799

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-16-intel-core-i3-2-13ghz-laptop-l500-00f-black-l500-00f/10137332.aspx?path=ddacacd6a13c724bab959ac54377c96 2en02

[Slick Fork]

Iphoto has a couple of features that I really like when compared to elements 7. However Stir Crazy is right as it doesn't have the editing power that elements does.

I run exclusively adobe on my PC, my Dad has iphoto on his mac, he absolutely loves the organizational features and uses that for organization, but has to edit all the photos with Elements on his PC first.

This bamboo pad from London Drugs
http://www.londondrugs.com/Cultures/en-US/Product+Detail/Computers.htm?BreadCrumbs=Computers;Computers;Inpu t%20Devices;Mouse%20and%20Graphic%20Tablet%20Sets; Wacom%20Bamboo%20Pen%20&%20Touch%20Craft%20-%20Silver%20-%20CTH461M&Catalog=Computers&Category=Mouse%20and%20Graphic%20Tablet%20Sets&ProductID=3911336&ProductTab=3

Has Adobe Photoshop Elements 7 bundled with it for $159

And yeah, don't be afraid of the AMD processor, they are quite good. Depending on the year and the chip they swing back and forth with intel for quality but usually win in price.

As far as the warranty goes... I've always thought that if these things are going to have a hardware failure, they'll fail in the first year. I've had failures on Hard Disks and power supplies ranging between the first time power hits them and about 9 or 10 boot ups but I don't think I've ever had a hardware failure after the first year of normal operation. That's just my personal experience though and may not be everyones experience. When I bought my LCD tv EVERY online review site said exactly the same thing. That if it's going to fail it will fail in the first year thus the extended warranties these stores like to push on you are really just cash grabs.

[Slick Fork]

Out of those two I would pick the HP, Two BIG reasons are the ATI graphics, and the pre-loaded Paintshop Pro. I have an old version of PSP, and it is comparable to photoshop.

Interesting that with the bigger screen it still comes in almost a kilo lighter than the toshiba.

[lastlight]

When I bought my 15" mackBook Pro nearly 3 years ago I think I paid about $2200 with tax. At the time similarly equipped non-mac machines were nearly as pricey.

I've upgraded the memory and the hard-drive through a mac dealer and I provided them with the parts which I bought at memory express and had them do it all for like $100.

I run Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator and sometimes 3d Studio Max in Bootcamp and this machine still performs today and I can't see myself needing to upgrade anytime soon.

I still don't think people are considering quality of construction when shopping for these things. I took this machine to and from work for 2 years and it still looks, opens and types as if it were new.

I think the gamer argument is a touch silly as most hardcore gamers will be running a desktop rig which they have pimped to the 9s and not a laptop. I'm not a pc gamer anymore but I'd never have run a laptop period for my gaming.

One thing I will say though when it comes to TOTAL cost...you want the Apple Care warranty. Apple has plenty of its own issues (I have escaped all of them luckily) and this is worth it but a bit pricey. After factoring everything in just keep in mind that nearly everyone that's bought one of these machines will or has bought another. I will in a year or so =)

[StirCrazy]

Out of those two I would pick the HP, Two BIG reasons are the ATI graphics, and the pre-loaded Paintshop Pro. I have an old version of PSP, and it is comparable to photoshop.

Interesting that with the bigger screen it still comes in almost a kilo lighter than the toshiba.

I agree the HP had a seperate vid card which is way better, and the backlit keyboard is nice for surfing canreef at night with no lights on. :mrgreen:
My dad bought a HP pavilion from costco and it is an impressive machine.

as for paint shop pro.. not a big deal, it is good for drawing stuff, not a great photo editor.

don't waist your time with the london drugs craft bundled bamboo, it is version 7 and we are on version 9 now.. lots of differance between 7 and 8, and not much between 8 and 9. you pay 50 bucks for 7 basicly with that bundle.. for 89.00 at costco you can buy v8 or v9 and get the new features. but if v7 has all the features you need then ya 50 bucks isn't a bad price.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

When I bought my 15" mackBook Pro nearly 3 years ago I think I paid about $2200 with tax. At the time similarly equipped non-mac machines were nearly as pricey.

I've upgraded the memory and the hard-drive through a mac dealer and I provided them with the parts which I bought at memory express and had them do it all for like $100.

I run Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator and sometimes 3d Studio Max in Bootcamp and this machine still performs today and I can't see myself needing to upgrade anytime soon.

I still don't think people are considering quality of construction when shopping for these things. I took this machine to and from work for 2 years and it still looks, opens and types as if it were new.

I think the gamer argument is a touch silly as most hardcore gamers will be running a desktop rig which they have pimped to the 9s and not a laptop. I'm not a pc gamer anymore but I'd never have run a laptop period for my gaming.



a desktop for gamming is nice, but when you got to sea for up to 6 months at a time its nice to have a laptop that can play them. my old laptop did 8 years of trip around the world shoved into a locker, subjected to constand vibration and jerking from the movment of the ship. plus various brownoiuts and power spikes. only replaced a hard drive in 8 years. I would say that is pretty well built. that was a toshiba. my new Dell is built with a all aluminum one piece frame I have had if for one year now and it still opens and runs like the day I got it. I know one year isn't a long time. I still have my old laptop. it is out in the shop now as I needed a laptop that could handle my referance software, take nots with, do design and run my auto diagnostic program, with out having to pull my new one out to the shop and being paranoid of getting grease or sawdust on the keyboard.

comparing apple vs PC is useless, it is a brand other than thet they are the same thing.. chev vs ford, and all the other brand wars. apple dell, toshiba, ect they are all the same thing and acomplish the same thing although the directions may get there in a different way.

To get a 17" screen size on a mac at London drugs you are spending 2600.00, so I check bestbuy the same thing.. for 800 your getting a 17" HP . I just looked up a comparable mac system to my new laptop. I can get mine for 1000.00 now, the mac book with the same speed processor, same ram, hard drive, ect is 2100.00 so ya. a mac is still double the price, and now that they are using intell chips you have the same problems. I do like the fact they are using the same hardware now, as it is easier to compar them.

Steve

[Doug]

I dont believe the link I posted had a back lit keyboard Steve, unless I missed it.

The Mac Book Pro had. Some of the other more expensive PC makes may have also.

[StirCrazy]

I dont believe the link I posted had a back lit keyboard Steve, unless I missed it.

The Mac Book Pro had. Some of the other more expensive PC makes may have also.

my mistake, it has a LED backlit screen, mised the screen part LOL.

have you looked up dell at all? I got my last desktom from them 3 years ago and my new laptop about a year ago and have been totaly happy with both there systems and there service. I have a studio laptop, but I customized it and ended up spending 1200 on it. but it does everything except take the garbage out :mrgreen:

Steve

[lastlight]

Please don't take this post seriously but why are we arguing about this still. If pc laptops were half as sexy as macs we'd see THEM in the movies.

COME ON GUYS!

And to refute the twice as expensive bit...we have to compare sexy to sexy. If i could actually *find* a comparable laptop that looked as good then I could make some comparisons.

I CAN'T =)

Oh and about going to sea...what kind of connection do you have out there? Can we classify you as a gamer WITHOUT high-speed?

[Doug]

Yes, looked at Dell Steve. I have a bunch of gift certificates for FS, so the first thought was them, not that I could not use them for other stuff.

I dont game and not going to sea, so those things not a consideration for me at least. :lol: :lol:

Actually Brett the HP I listed looks a lot nicer than the Mac Books. Of course dont mean they work better. IMO, the iMac is the nicest one I seen for looks at the store, overall.

Wish to say again, how much I appreciate the time you guys are taking to add input here. I know its not buying a car or anything but when one does not have a great knowledge on something its nice to have others in the know offer advice.

Thank-you. :D

[Ron99]

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/hewlett-packard-hp-pavilion-17-3-amd-athlon-ii-dual-core-m320-2-1ghz-laptop-dv7-3128ca-dv7-3128ca/10137979.aspx?path=34244322cd7ea82056eeec03eb47191 fen02

What I don't like abut the HP:

1. Decent graphics processor but no discreet graphics memory. It shares systme RAM with the video processor.

2. No Bluetooth.

3. No firewire. May not be important to you but the Macbbok pro has it.

Here is the Toshiba thats on this week. Regular is $799

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-16-intel-core-i3-2-13ghz-laptop-l500-00f-black-l500-00f/10137332.aspx?path=ddacacd6a13c724bab959ac54377c96 2en02



Toshiba:

1. Again, no discreet video RAM, it shares the system memory for that. and the graphics processor is inferior.

2. No Bluetooth

3. No Firewire.

So if you are going to com,pare to the Macbook pro you have to keep in mind it has discreet video memory for better graphics performance, built in Bluetooth, built in Firewire etc.

comparing apple vs PC is useless, it is a brand other than thet they are the same thing.. chev vs ford, and all the other brand wars. apple dell, toshiba, ect they are all the same thing and acomplish the same thing although the directions may get there in a different way.

To get a 17" screen size on a mac at London drugs you are spending 2600.00, so I check bestbuy the same thing.. for 800 your getting a 17" HP . I just looked up a comparable mac system to my new laptop. I can get mine for 1000.00 now, the mac book with the same speed processor, same ram, hard drive, ect is 2100.00 so ya. a mac is still double the price, and now that they are using intell chips you have the same problems. I do like the fact they are using the same hardware now, as it is easier to compar them.

Steve

Possibly true for 17" screens as Apple only offers high end configurations there. But not true for 15" laptops. You can't look at Apple's cost for HD and RAM upgrades as that skews the price. the same upgrades can be had for far less from third parties. Futureshop's website is working right now but let's do some proper comparisons:

1. 15" Macbook Pro with a 2.53 GHZ processor, 250GB HD 4GB RAM. $1800 retail. If you want to buy a refurb unit from Apple (I have bought several Apple refurbs and they look and function as new and come with the same 1 year warranty) it is only $1500.

2. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=45615&vpn=LX.TPX03.004&manufacture=Acer Has same amount of RAM, slightly larger HD, no firewire but otherwise close in specs. $1530. So difference is $270 ($30 more when compared to the refurb) but also no included software such as iLife.

3. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=48905&vpn=PTSB3C-0SM04M&manufacture=Toshiba this has very similar specs to the MacBook Pro but is lacking Firewire. Price is $1600 so $200 more for the Mac (or $100 less for the refurb Mac).

4. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=49321&vpn=FN044UT%23ABA&manufacture=Hewlett%20PackardThis one has a slightly larger HD but only VGA graphics output? Price is $1650. $150 less than the Mac or $150 more then the refurb.

You have to look at similar specs. I can pretty much be sure that any Windows laptop of decent quality with similar specs will be close in price. Not anywhere near half the cost of a Mac.

[lastlight]

Actually Brett the HP I listed looks a lot nicer than the Mac Books

Doug I want you to buy the HP (and allow me a few min to cry like a BABY in the corner)

[StirCrazy]

What I don't like abut the HP:

1. Decent graphics processor but no discreet graphics memory. It shares systme RAM with the video processor.

2. No Bluetooth.

3. No firewire. May not be important to you but the Macbbok pro has it.





Toshiba:

1. Again, no discreet video RAM, it shares the system memory for that. and the graphics processor is inferior.

2. No Bluetooth

3. No Firewire.

So if you are going to com,pare to the Macbook pro you have to keep in mind it has discreet video memory for better graphics performance, built in Bluetooth, built in Firewire etc.



Possibly true for 17" screens as Apple only offers high end configurations there. But not true for 15" laptops. You can't look at Apple's cost for HD and RAM upgrades as that skews the price. the same upgrades can be had for far less from third parties. Futureshop's website is working right now but let's do some proper comparisons:

1. 15" Macbook Pro with a 2.53 GHZ processor, 250GB HD 4GB RAM. $1800 retail. If you want to buy a refurb unit from Apple (I have bought several Apple refurbs and they look and function as new and come with the same 1 year warranty) it is only $1500.

2. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=45615&vpn=LX.TPX03.004&manufacture=Acer Has same amount of RAM, slightly larger HD, no firewire but otherwise close in specs. $1530. So difference is $270 ($30 more when compared to the refurb) but also no included software such as iLife.

3. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=48905&vpn=PTSB3C-0SM04M&manufacture=Toshiba this has very similar specs to the MacBook Pro but is lacking Firewire. Price is $1600 so $200 more for the Mac (or $100 less for the refurb Mac).

4. http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=49321&vpn=FN044UT%23ABA&manufacture=Hewlett%20PackardThis one has a slightly larger HD but only VGA graphics output? Price is $1650. $150 less than the Mac or $150 more then the refurb.

You have to look at similar specs. I can pretty much be sure that any Windows laptop of decent quality with similar specs will be close in price. Not anywhere near half the cost of a Mac.

2, is a 2.66 processor, 4 is a 2.8 processer, the mack is a 2.5 big differance in price, about 200 or more to upgrade from a 2.5 to a 2.66 and 3 to 400 to go to the 2.8

#3 doesn't show any specs so I don't know what you are uasing for a comparason. also lets compare new to new.. you can probably find a refurbished version of any of these for 400 to 800 less.

as for firewire.. how many times have I needed it in the last 20 years I have had a computer.. hmmm oh none.. so realy firewire is a mute point. especialy with USB2 and serial ATA inputs. I have a HD camcorder and a new fancy DLSR and neither of them have firewire.. I couldn't even tell you what stilluses firewire except Apple.

bluetooth, I have to say big deal for that also.. realy what would you use it for? any bluetooth device I have that I would want to hook to my computer come with USB cords to do this. so I program them then unplug. now some one may want bluetooth, but for the average person...



Steve

[Ron99]

Well, in the real world I don't think those small differences in processor speed would be noticeable. I was trying to find ones of mostly equal specs but it is difficult to find identical ones. I think the comparisons are pretty good.

I'm sure you can find refurbs of Windows machines too but do they come with full manufacturer backing and warranties as well?

Bluetooth is very useful for syncing to many devices and if you want to use a wireless mouse with it. Lot's of interesting gadgets are now incorporating bluetooth so i think it is a useful feature.

Firewire as well. File transfers to a firewire HD are way faster than USB2. I haven't done a comparison with eSATA but I suspect firewire is still faster. Mostly it is storage but I think plenty of cameras still have firewire as well.

[Doug]

Kind of had an idea what you guys were talking about but thought I better go check it out first. :lol:

[Doug]

Doug I want you to buy the HP (and allow me a few min to cry like a BABY in the corner)


Never purchased anything yet Brett. :smile:

[StirCrazy]

Well, in the real world I don't think those small differences in processor speed would be noticeable. I was trying to find ones of mostly equal specs but it is difficult to find identical ones. I think the comparisons are pretty good.

I'm sure you can find refurbs of Windows machines too but do they come with full manufacturer backing and warranties as well?

.

yup they come with full warenties depending where you buy from.

as for speed differance in real world, I have a 2.53 (couldn't aford the 400.00 buck upgrade to the 2.66 last year :cry:) but in playing with the identical computers one with a 2.2 and the other with a 2.5 depending what you did there was actualy quite a differance.. actualy surprised me. I do a lot of photo work with 12Mp raw files so between the two there was a 1.5 second difference in opening one picture, and some times when I tag a bunch and open them there was a minuit or two differance. during the actual editing the previews were noticably faster also. now if you are working with 3mp pictures in jpg format I don't know if you would see much differance.

I also noticed that a few other bigger programs I have open faster and run a bit smother, but it is mostly the real intensive stuff.. if you are just surfing Canreef and checking e-mail no you wouldn't see anything.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Never purchased anything yet Brett. :smile:

found one for ya

http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=ca&CS=cadhs1&l=en&OC=NAM17XARN_R_1E

:mrgreen:

Steve

[pinhead]

If you really need bluetooth you can get a $1.98 usb/bluetooth dongle for your laptop from Dealextreme. I have one and it has worked flawlessly under XP, Vista and Windows 7 - however there are no Mac drivers.

I haven't really used the bluetooth more than once or twice and I haven't used firewire even though my external drive has firewire, USB 2.0 and eSATA II. I have hooked up the drive via firewire and eSATA is much faster. Theoretical speeds are 400 Mb/s and 800Mb/s for firewire 400 and 800 vs. 3Gb/s for SATA II

I don't believe there are any macs that come with eSATA.

That is the problem that I have with Apple in general. Apple gives you the experience that they believe you need - not necessarily what you need. Dell is the number one computer manufacturer at least partly because your machines are custom built to your specifications.

World wide market share for Mac OS vs. Windows vs. Linux which as of January 2010 including Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are 5.1%, 92.1% and 1.0% (don't ask me why it doesn't add up to 100 - I can give you the link)

If I had an unlimited budget I might buy a mac again. However, most people have a general idea of what they want to spend and don't buy on a comparison of specs. I would look at how much you want to spend and compare the windows and mac machines in that price range.

One machine that I have played with that is impressive is the HP tm2 touchsmart at 1099. It is a touchscreen notebook that is convertable into a tablet.
A co-worker of mine that is a mac person bought this at London Drugs.

[Slick Fork]

I've never used anything with firewire either. Same goes for Card readers etc. Even on my DSLR I find it simpler just to plug the thing in with the USB cord they give you.

I think there's been some good discussion here Doug and you've gotten both sides of the story. Ron99 has about as much a chance at converting StirCrazy and I over to the Apple side as we have of turning him into a PC user.

At the end of the day, I think the things you should compare are
1) Processor
2) RAM
3) Hard Drive space.

Like Pinhead mentioned, pick a price point and call it your total budget and compare what you get.
Include Photoshop Elements and Include the bamboo pen and touch pad if it's something that interests you. Don't kid yourself about Iphoto being enough for more than adjusting white balance. The reason Adobe makes a Mac version of elements is because there is a demand for it.

[Ron99]

I think there's been some good discussion here Doug and you've gotten both sides of the story. Ron99 has about as much a chance at converting StirCrazy and I over to the Apple side as we have of turning him into a PC user.

At the end of the day, I think the things you should compare are
1) Processor
2) RAM
3) Hard Drive space.

Like Pinhead mentioned, pick a price point and call it your total budget and compare what you get.
Include Photoshop Elements and Include the bamboo pen and touch pad if it's something that interests you. Don't kid yourself about Iphoto being enough for more than adjusting white balance. The reason Adobe makes a Mac version of elements is because there is a demand for it.

I think you're right there. I have been an Apple guy since my Apple II days. But I have used them all including various flavours of Windows and Unix workstations (back before even Linux when it was a command prompt interface). I actually have a slightly older XP box that has been used for the odd game and playing some videos on our TV but I would never use it for real work :smile: It has given me more problems then the Mac and I don't do anything crazy with it. No matter what I do I can't get the ATI drivers etc. to work properly.

Also, iPhoto does do more then just adjust white balance now. It isn't photoshop but you can do some basic retouching and alot of colour, contrast and sharpness adjustments along with some cool built in effects as well. So depending on what image editing you need to do iPhoto could very well be enough to do the job. The one really cool feature is that you can easily create photo books and then order them from Apple. They make great gifts of family shots or you can make your own coffee table books or books with photos from trips with your friends etc.

[Doug]

found one for ya

http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=ca&CS=cadhs1&l=en&OC=NAM17XARN_R_1E

:mrgreen:

Steve


Oh ya right. My son would like it however. I believe his next desktop is going to be liquid cooled. :surprise:

[StirCrazy]

I think you're right there. I have been an Apple guy since my Apple II days. But I have used them all including various flavours of Windows and Unix workstations (back before even Linux when it was a command prompt interface). I actually have a slightly older XP box that has been used for the odd game and playing some videos on our TV but I would never use it for real work :smile: It has given me more problems then the Mac and I don't do anything crazy with it. No matter what I do I can't get the ATI drivers etc. to work properly.

Also, iPhoto does do more then just adjust white balance now. It isn't photoshop but you can do some basic retouching and alot of colour, contrast and sharpness adjustments along with some cool built in effects as well. So depending on what image editing you need to do iPhoto could very well be enough to do the job. The one really cool feature is that you can easily create photo books and then order them from Apple. They make great gifts of family shots or you can make your own coffee table books or books with photos from trips with your friends etc.

my first one was the apple IIE, I should have kept it as it would be a nice paperweight now. its funny cuz when I got that I was 14, had to build it my self and you pretty much had to write the code to all your games. or coppy them out of a mag. 11 years later the IBM DX2-66 was out and was the hotest thing on the market with 512K of ram and a 40meg hard drive. 2 years later I upgraded to a P166, 2 years later an AMD 900, 2 years after that a P4 1.2 laptop, then 6 years later a p2.2 quadcore desktop, and a year after that replaced the laptop with a 2.53 core 2 duo.

its amazing the progress of computers over the years.

as for Iphoto, it is the same thing as the free photo software that comes with vista, win7, ect.. lets normal people do some neat crafts and basic retouching of photos. I put up with it for quite a while as my old photo shop wouldn't run on vista.. I finaly broke down and upgraded my photoshop.

Steve

[Doug]

I think there's been some good discussion here Doug and you've gotten both sides of the story. Ron99 has about as much a chance at converting StirCrazy and I over to the Apple side as we have of turning him into a PC user.

Or turning Steve to T-5,s. :lol:

At the end of the day, I think the things you should compare are
1) Processor
2) RAM
3) Hard Drive space.

I have been doing that for sure. Perhaps one reason the iMac appeals, besides its clean look, is the 3.06GHz processor, 4GB ram and 500GB hard drive for close to the same price as their lap tops. As mobility is not the major reason for my purchase, it may be the best buy in that price range.

I leaning towards the HP I listed, if going down to the lesser price range. But not going to add all the additional warrenty, as it then brings me back to the iMac price, well close anyways.

So I,m thinking the Mac Books are now out of the equasion and down to the iMac or the HP or a comparable PC laptop, based on price. If the Mac Books that are a fair bit more money had at least 4g ram and little larger hard drives, then they would be favored. But even adding 2g more ram brings them up another $200 and over the price of the iMac.

Like Pinhead mentioned, pick a price point and call it your total budget and compare what you get.
Include Photoshop Elements and Include the bamboo pen and touch pad if it's something that interests you. Don't kid yourself about Iphoto being enough for more than adjusting white balance. The reason Adobe makes a Mac version of elements is because there is a demand for it.

Checked them out yesterday. Although the way they tied up at Staples not much to check out. Nothing listed on the boxes as to photo editing, so guess its a secret until open. Plus great for a desktop, looks kind of like a pain for laptops, unless they sitting on a desk, which then makes them desk tops. :lol: My wife, who uses her IBM laptop strickly on a table, wants one though. She,s not to fond of her mouse and never uses the touch pad.

[Slick Fork]

If portability is not a factor for you I would absolutely hands-down go with a PC desk top for a couple of reasons:
1) You pay a fair sized premium for the portability of a laptop and could get a much higher end desktop for the same money
2) Upgradeability. You can upgrade almost everything in a desktop machine thus extending the useful life of the same basic system and spreading the cost of upgrades out over a longer time.

And the clutter isn't really that much more significant over a laptop, especially if you're plugging a mouse, keyboard, bamboo pad, monitor, printer, etc. in.

[Slick Fork]

Check This one out

http://www2.dell.com/ca/en/home/desktops/studio-xps-8100/pd.aspx?refid=studio-xps-8100&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&~oid=ca~en~70702~studioxps8100_en_1~~

Blows the laptops out of the water

Edit: Went through the customization process and at the final page it informs you that as a bonus you get Bon Jovi's newest Album... How do you say no to a system with free bon jovi?

[StirCrazy]

Or turning Steve to T-5,s. :lol:



Um.. I have two T5 setups Ill have you know! and there both used as T5's should be, one of a fresh water tank and one still waiting to be put togeather for actinics on a tank.

but now I am thinking I need some undercabnet lighting for the shop, so maybe I should use T5. lord knows it will work better for that than it would in a fish tank :wink:

Steve

[mr.wilson]

At the end of the day, I think the things you should compare are
1) Processor
2) RAM
3) Hard Drive space.


These are true if you are comparing PC's, but do not come into play in a Mac vs. PC comparison. The two operating systems process information at different speeds and efficiency. Just like the varying speeds at which the languages we speak can convey the same information, operating system languages process information at varying speeds. A processor on a Mac would be equal to a larger processor on a PC. This is just one comparison that shows the speed difference done by Popular Mechanics. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1

You get more bang for your buck with external memory, so buy a computer with the features you need (built in video camera, mat screen or whatever suits your purpose) and go with relatively low RAM to save some money. With Mac, you can use Time Machine to automatically save everything to an external hard drive.

Don't kid yourself about Iphoto being enough for more than adjusting white balance. The reason Adobe makes a Mac version of elements is because there is a demand for it.

I agree that Iphoto is not a professional photo editing program, nor is it intended to be. It's a photo storage and handling program that allows users to use simple editing tools while maintaining the original image. If you want to get rid of the effects you have added you can reverse the process at the click of a button. With Photoshop you need to save the original as a separate file. Most Mac users use Adobe Photoshop to edit photos, and Adobe Bridge to store them while editing between the other Adobe design programs (Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, In Design). Most photographers, film editors and design people use Mac machines for their speed, reliability, versatility, cost effectiveness and longevity.

If you are running inventory programs and building spread sheets, by all means buy a PC, but if you want to avoid hard disk crashes, slow processing due to viruses, and having to pay for software updates then buy a Mac.

[StirCrazy]

This is just one comparison that shows the speed difference done by Popular Mechanics. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1

.

um, yourt report you showed had results in the opposit. the desktop test the mac had the fastest cpu, the laptops they were all the same. but everyone know vista is speed limited so why would some one even compare program opening times. but in the context of that article I opened my adolb photoshop on my desktop with 8 other programs running. a good mix ie, word, exel, access, power point, outlook, windows media playing mp3's and a couple other hoile games of the wifes which I hate as they are huge processor power users and she always leaves them running.. took 15 seconds to open with a 8Mp RAW file so I realy don't know where they got there 40 seconds but who knows what MB they had or any of that.

I think that is one area I would agree that macs can be a little better than PC. because Mac controls all the parts for there computers, ie.. there is one mother board for this model, not the 15 different MB for a model of PC desktop they car more consistant. I can line up 15 desktops and get 15 different results in speed, reliability, ect.. depending on the combanation of parts. so I may have 2 that blow the mac away, but I will have 8 that suck compared to the mac, so you realy have to do your homework and such if you build a PC, where as for a mac... never mind you can't build your own mac :mrgreen:

but you knwo what I am getting at. Mac vs. PC is realy no good unless you have the model numbers of the MB, CPU, RAM, Vid card, and on and on to make sure they are good ones not ones that are knowen not to play nice togeather.. this was a huge problem during the years of win95, Me, win98 as there were so many fly by night companies offering stuff that prommised great things but ended up causing conflicts with everything else. it took me a lot of reasearch to decide which parts to use when I owned my computer business a long time ago. I ended up shutting it down as I didn't have the time or capital to go bigger than a home based business and a couple other compainies in victoria were making the jump from home to storebased but they had the resoarses. but I also provided the highest quality systems for the price of the other companies base models and in 3 years only had 1 warenty issue and it was a keyboard that was warped when I got it.. so thee is a lot to be said about the quality of the parts inside and how they are put togeather and the reliability of the computer.

Steve

[Slick Fork]

These are true if you are comparing PC's, but do not come into play in a Mac vs. PC comparison. The two operating systems process information at different speeds and efficiency. Just like the varying speeds at which the languages we speak can convey the same information, operating system languages process information at varying speeds. A processor on a Mac would be equal to a larger processor on a PC. This is just one comparison that shows the speed difference done by Popular Mechanics. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/reviews/4258725.html?page=1

You get more bang for your buck with external memory, so buy a computer with the features you need (built in video camera, mat screen or whatever suits your purpose) and go with relatively low RAM to save some money. With Mac, you can use Time Machine to automatically save everything to an external hard drive.



I agree that Iphoto is not a professional photo editing program, nor is it intended to be. It's a photo storage and handling program that allows users to use simple editing tools while maintaining the original image. If you want to get rid of the effects you have added you can reverse the process at the click of a button. With Photoshop you need to save the original as a separate file. Most Mac users use Adobe Photoshop to edit photos, and Adobe Bridge to store them while editing between the other Adobe design programs (Illustrator, Flash, Dreamweaver, In Design). Most photographers, film editors and design people use Mac machines for their speed, reliability, versatility, cost effectiveness and longevity.

If you are running inventory programs and building spread sheets, by all means buy a PC, but if you want to avoid hard disk crashes, slow processing due to viruses, and having to pay for software updates then buy a Mac.


That's horrible misinformation.

Hardware is hardware, and while different os's may be able to squeeze small performance increases out of the hardware I don't think you'll see night and day differences. Apple does have a bit of an edge as Stir Crazy pointed out because they standardize everything from the Mobo to the CPU. BUT talking nicely to a cavalier does NOT turn it into a ferrari.

"Relatively Low RAM"? I think you may mean Hard Drive Space? and I would agree if he goes with a desktop as it can ALWAYS be added on to.

"Hard disk crashes, Viruses and paid updates"? I have NEVER had a catastrophic failure on any of my windows machines and this has been discussed exhaustively in this thread already. Viruses, like I posted before... just because no one wants to make a virus that infects only 7% of the computers out there doesn't mean it's more secure. Paid updates? Correct me if I'm wrong but windows XP users are still getting their free updates. I've never paid for an OS update from Microsoft and I don't know anybody who has.


Is this the Imac you're looking at Doug?
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/apple-apple-imac-21-5-intel-core-2-duo-3-06ghz-computer-mb950ll-a-english-mb950ll-a/10131332.aspx?path=3f866583cf919925d56fbcbaa8b63f9 6en02

If you compare it to the dell I posted you really can't beat the value on the PC.
2gbs more RAM
Processor was the same
500GB more HDD space
I don't know about the NVidia vs ATI video card
and most importantly $400 less which leaves you cash for Photoshop, the Bamboo pad and some nice coral!

[lastlight]

Yeah that was the PC user I used to be. It WAS a lot of fun putting together a nice system but I really think that building a PC *that* way means you're spending more than on a Mac. Fun times tho and a great way to blow all my student loan cash!

[StirCrazy]

Is this the Imac you're looking at Doug?
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/apple-apple-imac-21-5-intel-core-2-duo-3-06ghz-computer-mb950ll-a-english-mb950ll-a/10131332.aspx?path=3f866583cf919925d56fbcbaa8b63f9 6en02

If you compare it to the dell I posted you really can't beat the value on the PC.
2gbs more RAM
Processor was the same
500GB more HDD space
I don't know about the NVidia vs ATI video card
and most importantly $400 less which leaves you cash for Photoshop, the Bamboo pad and some nice coral!

actualy one point the cpu's are not the same.. the imac is using the old core2duo, while the speed is the same the through put is lower than the one on the dell site you linked to.. which means you can get more done at the same speed if the software allows it. but it has 4 threads instead of two, it has the new turbo which alows it to burst to 3.5ghz instead of just 3ish.

now from the people I know who have been running windows 7 they are very impressed with it. it is a huge improvment over vista and vista was finaly a good stable operating system.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

here is a Mac I would concider very close to my dell laptop.

http://http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/apple-macbook-pro-15-4-intel-core-2-duo-2-53ghz-laptop-english/10125865.aspx?path=e721ce9cdea6b91e1c5da243084732d 3en02

I have a 320 7200rmp drive as aposed to its 250 5400rpm, I have a higher level video card, the mack gets twice the battery live, which is one thing I have always been amaze of in macs. it has time warp, I have dells version of the back up and the windows vista's two versions. so all in all verry comparable systems as they are the identicle cpu, screen size, both use a one piece aluminum chasse. I have a 1080P screen and a blueray player, apple doesn't have blueray and they don't say if it is a 1080P screen

the apple is 1800.00 right now, I paid 1200 a year ago for mine.. probably would cost under 1K to build it on dells website now. actualy I just built one to see and it was 1018.00 so still a 780.00 differance for the same hardware. and the same types of software. the apple does have bluetooth and firewire, but thats a 15 buck option, and ther apple has 2 USB2 slots, I have 4 plus 2 SATA.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

Yeah that was the PC user I used to be. It WAS a lot of fun putting together a nice system but I really think that building a PC *that* way means you're spending more than on a Mac. Fun times tho and a great way to blow all my student loan cash!

if you go to a retail store and buy yes... building is more expensive, but in my case I owned a computer company and the prices I got the parts for ended up saving me an average of 500 to 700 bucks for a high end system over what you would have paid for a run of the mill back then. remembr back then a average run of the mill PC cost 2000 to 2400 bucks.

not the 400 to 700 we see now.

Steve

[Doug]

Is this the Imac you're looking at Doug?
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/apple-apple-imac-21-5-intel-core-2-duo-3-06ghz-computer-mb950ll-a-english-mb950ll-a/10131332.aspx?path=3f866583cf919925d56fbcbaa8b63f9 6en02

If you compare it to the dell I posted you really can't beat the value on the PC.
2gbs more RAM
Processor was the same
500GB more HDD space
I don't know about the NVidia vs ATI video card
and most importantly $400 less which leaves you cash for Photoshop, the Bamboo pad and some nice coral!


Yeppers. The linked model is nice. I have looked at some, {not Dell}, at both Future Shop & Staples. Still have to then be happy with cords and wires everywhere, same as my current unit. That was the appeal of the iMac but $400 is also important.

Thats the same processor as in the Sony I mentioned for $1199. Just less memory and hard drive. Of course there is that $400 more again as its not on sale anymore. :lol:

So if that case has a sub woofer built in, where,s the speakers? Still external like my current ones?

[StirCrazy]

Yeppers. The linked model is nice. I have looked at some, {not Dell}, at both Future Shop & Staples. Still have to then be happy with cords and wires everywhere,

what about a wireless keyboard and mouse?

Steve

[Doug]

I use those now Steve. Soooooooo much better than wired. But the back is still full of lines to the tower, speaker lines, and a full plug in strip. Its nice and neat and behind the desk, so not a horrific thing or anything. :lol: You would have to see my tiny room/office. Its the large desk and everything I need to be rid of.

I was actually at Staples the other day, looking at smaller neat little desks, in case I do stick with a desktop which I dont think will happen.

:lol: To many choices out there. Much different than when I bought my first used computer way back when. :lol:

[StirCrazy]

I was actually at Staples the other day, looking at smaller neat little desks, in case I do stick with a desktop which I dont think will happen.

:lol: To many choices out there. Much different than when I bought my first used computer way back when. :lol:

thats for sure.. I don't know if personaly I would have just a laptop. I hardly use my desktop but the kids and wife do. I do once and a while just cuz it has a 24" screen so it is nice for playing a game, although I am not realy a gamer I like to play certian ones once and a while.. my current game is "The Witcher" .

personaly I don't use wireless as I used to have one and I noticed a delay in it and that drove me nuts, now new ones are probably better so who knows.. I just find the touch pad a lot better for potability with the laptop.

Have you looked at tablet PC, they are real cook with touch screens and the ability to flip the screen around. if they would have been more available I would probably have one of thoes.

Steve

[Slick Fork]

So really, the only cords you'd save when comparing to a desktop would be the computer speakers right? Hardly seems worth the premium especially if you don't care about portability.

[mr.wilson]

To be fair, the hard disk crashes I touted as being frequent are from ten years ago when I had Windows machines. I agree hardware improvements have probably minimized this. Most of the people I know have Macs and none of them have had a hard disk crash, while a minority of my friends have PCs and I have heard of a few crashes. Yes, of course Vista is the source of many of the problems and viruses will make up for some as well.

Over the past ten years I have had to work on my wife's PCs and pay for repairs. Maybe it's just my good luck with Macs and my wife's bad luck with PCs, but I haven't had to replace anything on any of my Macs with exception to a burnt out wifi card on my current MacBook Pro (I used to leave it on 24/7 and failed to vent it when I use it on my leather laptop cover).

Viruses are a constant issue with PCs, regardless of the motives. The processor speed is better with Snow Leopard and the upgrade from Leopard is only $28.00. I bet there are a few Vista users who wish they could pay that for Windows 7. I get free updates for all Apple software. I was under the impression that this wasn't the case with Microsoft programs.

This review shows the speed comparison.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31012_7-10319612-10355804.html

Mac computers are more intuitive and therefore easier to use and run more reliably. If you like working on your computer, then the PC is the right choice. If you like working with your computer, Mac is the sensible choice.

If you are a gamer, then Windows is a better OS, no questions asked. I don't play video games, so that wasn't a factor for me.

[StirCrazy]

Yes, of course Vista is the source of many of the problems and viruses will make up for some as well.



This review shows the speed comparison.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31012_7-10319612-10355804.html

.

hmm I have three computers running vista, a desktop that is never shut off, my new laptop which is never shut off, and my old laptop is running it now. never had a problem with anyof them so I don't know how you can say vista is a problem. it is slower than people would like but the most friendlyest software there has been untill win7.

also your test you linked to is garbage, everthing he does in win 7 has to go through a subset of instructions and drivers to make it work with the mac hardware.. thing that might slow it down a bit? the author even says multiple times that it is a unfair test for win 7. you need to start reading things befor you link to them, as all the stuff you have posted so far just show how apple users will fuge numbers to make the apples look way better. wanna see something impressive.. try find a copy of BEOS 5 and install it on your mac, or a PC as it will run properly on any platfor from a clean state. it will make both win 7 and snow lepard look like slugs. problem was BEOS fell victom to Linux Warp OS2 and Win95 advertizing campains but it is still one of the best OSs I have ever played with. only problem is that after spending over 23mill fighting MS in court they went bankrupt.

as for more intuitive.. I guess if you have never had a computer mac might seem more simple.. if you have been using a PC for 20 years it wouldn't.. I found it weird and not very intuitive so that argument is a to each his own and what one person finds simple another doesn't. personaly I don't see how you can get any more simple than clicking on a icon, or if there is a program you don't use very often, you hit start then click on the name of the program.. hmm guess that isn't obvious to some people.


Steve

[Ron99]

I think the whole argument is getting silly. Basically, if you can afford the Mac buy it. You won't regret it as it will just work out of the box. If the budget is really a major constraint you should get one of the cheaper Windows machines as it will likely still do the job for you and you will have a few bucks in your pocket.

But to argue that Macs are unreasonably overpriced or the Windows machines are significantly slower is just silly. Neither point is right. You pay a bit more for a Mac to get a better UI and a better integrated and more hassle free system with a bit more useful included software. Windows will work for you too but you will always have more worries with viruses and potential hardware incompatibilities because of the wide variability in hardware in the Windows world. IMO Windows is also far less intuitive and elegant to work with then the Mac OS and you can be more productive on the Mac because of it but I'm sure others will feel differently. It's a matter of opinion.

[mr.wilson]

Both of the links I have given show that the Mac OS is faster than PC. If you challenge their criteria, that is fine with me. I'm not here to convert anyone. It sounds like you enjoy a challenge. Apple will let you down every time if you are looking for a challenge.

[Doug]

And the result is;


http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/apple-apple-imac-21-5-intel-core-2-duo-3-06ghz-computer-mb950ll-a-english-mb950ll-a/10131332.aspx?path=3f866583cf919925d56fbcbaa8b63f9 6en02

Many thanks to all who contributed to the thread. Hope its helpful to others also.

Steve, you and SF were pretty convincing and I was pretty close to the purchase of the HP I listed before. I stopped in today and the $1300 iMac was on for $1149 plus free $100 set up.

Was just to hard to to say no. :lol: No particular reason. Just appealed to me and what I need.

Now to figure it out and get things transfered. Grabbed a 4g Flashdrive.

[mr.wilson]

You would have been happy with either choice. Enjoy your new computer.

[StirCrazy]

And the result is;


http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/apple-apple-imac-21-5-intel-core-2-duo-3-06ghz-computer-mb950ll-a-english-mb950ll-a/10131332.aspx?path=3f866583cf919925d56fbcbaa8b63f9 6en02



thats not a laptop, I thought you were looking for a laptop?

Steve

[Ron99]

Congrats. You will love the iMac. It's a great machine!

[Doug]

Steve. If you remember back a page or two, the iMac was in the equasion as the only alternative to the larger laptops. Thats why SF, linked the Dell desktop in one post.

Although not take anywhere portable like a laptop, you can pick it up and sit it any place in the house with only a power cord to plug in and very light.

FWIW, I am NOT, one of those who will say a product is great just because I bought or own one. And speaking in general here, not just computers, which are not my best subject. :lol: So if it does not live up to the hype, I will say so. And I have owned 5 previous pc desktops to have some comparison with.

So I have 14 days to purchase extended warrenty. 4yrs. @ $300. You guys still figure most problems are in the 1st. yr. anyways.

[StirCrazy]

So I have 14 days to purchase extended warrenty. 4yrs. @ $300. You guys still figure most problems are in the 1st. yr. anyways.

I would find out what the cost to replace a screen is on it.. if it is way more than the insurance the get the insurance.. after all the screen isn't the magical apple product that will never break down :mrgreen: just kidding..seriously though being a all in one like a lap top is , I would very seriously concider the extended warenty. there are some other benifits to FS watenties also like a preformance guarentee ect.. you never know if you are going to get a power surge or what ever.

Steve

[Ron99]

Extended warranties are pretty much established as a rip off and nothing but profit for the seller like Future Shop. Usually if something is going to go wrong it will happen in the first year in which case FS just has it fixed under the manufacturers warranty. Costs them nothing. I would pass or buy Applecare from Apple itself if you really want an extended warranty.

[StirCrazy]

Extended warranties are pretty much established as a rip off and nothing but profit for the seller like Future Shop. Usually if something is going to go wrong it will happen in the first year in which case FS just has it fixed under the manufacturers warranty. Costs them nothing. I would pass or buy Applecare from Apple itself if you really want an extended warranty.

doesn't FS offer apple care? I thought any seller of apple produces would sell apple care. any any rate, my condern isn't with the electronics and guts of the computer.. I won't buy an extended warenty for a computer. but for displays yes.. very common to start getting dead pixels after a year.. so you need to make sure that is covered. but like everything else they are getting better also so it is a judjment call.

Usaly the only extended warenties I buy are on cars, and things I know I am going to abuse or are prone to breakage by there nature which LCD IMHO still are. I also look at a price point.. if I can afford to replace it after a year then I don't buy the warentys, but for example I bought myself a 60" plasma TV for which I did get the warenty but I also got them to give me a deal on it and only paid 60 bucks instead of the 220.00, but it is unlikly you will get a deal on the warenty now as you already bought the computer.. never pay full price for the warenties as like Ron said are a mony making thing for the sales man.. the extra mony over the store cost of the warenty goes directly to the sales man, which is why they push it so hard.

Steve

[Ron99]

You may be right about Applecare at FS. Just make sure that's what you're getting as the salesman will likely get minimal commision on Applecare. They will push the FS warranty instead.

Also make sure you check the policy on dead pixels if that's your concern. Most companies, Apple included, will consider a certain number of dead or stuck pixels as acceptable and not replace the screen.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I don't think I've ever had a bad pixel on a computer screen or our LCD TV.

[lastlight]

+1 to Applecare.

[Doug]

I will check out Apple Care. FS does send the Macs out for repair but not sure to whom. I always add for my cars to Steve. My Focas has a 5yr. platinum warranty. Peace of mind for that time and then I get another anyways. Actually I have only made 4yrs. before. :lol:

[Doug]

On another note. One day in. Trying to re learn everything. Have some transfer done. Impressed so far. Transferred pics to the iPhoto. Wow, ever look nice on the HD screen.
Couple little things kind of irritating compared with Windows.

Have to figure out what can transfer or not. Like is messenger compatible with iChat? Not listed as such but someone told me it was.
Lots of other stuff I have to do by hand almost. :lol:.

[Skimmerking]

Hurry up and get your MSN sorted out I'm sitting here with no one to talk to.
I CANT SPEAK DOUG

[Doug]

Hurry up and get your MSN sorted out I'm sitting here with no one to talk to.
I CANT SPEAK DOUG

Its moved, where are you. :lol:

[Doug]

Keyboard is nice, better than my old one. Magic mouse is great to use. However the laser tracking is not even close to my wireless Logitech. Not even close to the same sensitivity.
Unless I need to adjust something of course. Cant do the same right click thingy as a PC though. :lol:

Many of the other features are a nice addition. Well the ones I have looked at so far.




Oh and the best thing, of course not Mac related but just new computer related. Super fast. :D

[fkshiu]

Cant do the same right click thingy as a PC though. :lol:



Sure you can, just go on into "Mouse" under System Preferences and set the right side of the mouse as the Secondary Button. It's another example of Steve-O stubbornly wanting to be different but then realizing that it's actually very useful.

[mr.wilson]

Sure you can, just go on into "Mouse" under System Preferences and set the right side of the mouse as the Secondary Button. It's another example of Steve-O stubbornly wanting to be different but then realizing that it's actually very useful.

Or press ctrl + click to get a "right click", as I do with my laptop when I'm not using my Apple Magic Mouse.

[Ron99]

Under your System Settings there is a mouse and keyboard settings section. You can set the right click to act as it does under Windows as fkshiu suggests. It just comes turned off out of the box. You can also adjust your mouse tracking speed etc there which may help you dial in the feel of the tracking to where you like it. I find they are set for slow tracking out of the factory compared to what I like.

[Doug]

Right on guys. Nice settings. Tracks better now and the right click works. Excellent. Thanks. More questions later. :D

[Ron99]

No problem, happy to help. Shoot us any more questions you have.

[Doug]

No problem, happy to help. Shoot us any more questions you have.

Guess I better go read the online How to do everything Mac. :lol:

I thought with all the stuff Apple does, they would have software on here that plays my Sirius. Oh no. Need to download Microsoft Media Player. What the heck. :lol: Of course try doing that on here. Ack, gonna pee myself. :lol:

Figured I could listen to music while figuring the rest out :lol:


Thats ok though. Still love it. :mrgreen:

[StirCrazy]

Guess I better go read the online How to do everything Mac. :lol:

I thought with all the stuff Apple does, they would have software on here that plays my Sirius. Oh no. Need to download Microsoft Media Player. What the heck. :lol: Of course try doing that on here. Ack, gonna pee myself. :lol:

Figured I could listen to music while figuring the rest out :lol:


Thats ok though. Still love it. :mrgreen:

um sirius plays off there web page.

Is there a seperat program for it?


Oh and your on a apple now.. learn to live with one mouse button :mrgreen:

Steve

[mr.wilson]

I don't know anything about Sirius, but there's lots of free internet streamed music on "radio" in itunes. I use Acquisition and Vuze for downloading http://www.acquisitionx.com/
http://www.vuze.com/
http://www.last.fm/
VLC is a much better video player for MAC than "DVD Player".
http://vlc-media-player.en.softonic.com/mac

[Doug]

What one mouse button Steve. This magic mouse, now adjusted, is the best I have ever used. :D

Yea, just played on my PC Steve. I dont think it was using my media player but perhaps it was. For sure it says I need to use it to play now. So I download the version for my operating system. Sure, now I need some Stuff It thingy to load it. Ok, download that and then finally the media player. Still wont play my Sirius and it says I need to download the same freakin thing I already did.

:lol: I,m going to watch the stupid award show. :lol:

[Ron99]

Oh and your on a apple now.. learn to live with one mouse button :mrgreen:

Steve

Macs have supported two button mice for ages now. And the magic mouse has two "buttons" too. All you have to do is turn on the right click in your settings.

[StirCrazy]

Macs have supported two button mice for ages now. And the magic mouse has two "buttons" too. All you have to do is turn on the right click in your settings.

so if they come with a mouse with two buttones and have for years.. why do they ship it with one disabled??

Doug, I am still a bit confused how were you listining to Sirius with your PC?

Steve

[Ron99]

so if they come with a mouse with two buttones and have for years.. why do they ship it with one disabled??

Doug, I am still a bit confused how were you listining to Sirius with your PC?

Steve

Shipping it disabled is one the weird Steve Jobs things. He seems to feel that for computer newbies two buttons might be confusing. Steve Jobs has always had weird ideas about mice and Apple has shipped some of the worst computer mice ever (anyone remember the hockey puck mouse?).

[Doug]

so if they come with a mouse with two buttones and have for years.. why do they ship it with one disabled??

Doug, I am still a bit confused how were you listining to Sirius with your PC?

Steve

Cant say Steve. It just worked. There was no player pop up or anything. So on the Sirius site it says I need Flip4 Mac to play it, as MS no longer supports playback of the streaming content on a Mac. Okie dokie so I download the Flip it. Still dont work or at least cant hear anything but it does not say I need anything else now. So perhaps its playing and I dont have something turned on. Be darned if I know. I,m going to join the Mac forum. :lol:

[Slick Fork]

Hey Doug,

Glad you got something you're happy with. By the way, my wife is Mad at you because this thread got me looking at new stuff and the gadget itch flared up.

Couldn't pass up the deals on the new Core i-5's from Dell!
http://configure.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=ni143_r_8e&c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&kc=inspiron-1464

I told her it was because I was helping you and saw how good the deal was!!!

[Doug]

He,he. Thats ok. I,m always in trouble anyways. That one looks good. I almost bought an identical on the Shopping Channel one night.

So far very happy with my purchase but then never owned a high end PC to compare with either. Lots of great features but a couple I miss or just not use to yet.

Best things so far and not just Mac related is the super speed. Plus cant believe how good my photo,s ,{and everyones coral pics}, look on the HD screen.

Several really neat features on Safari that I love also. Of course only a few days in, so have not explored many features. Reads Canreef good. :lol: