PDA

View Full Version : Lost my tang and a clown? no idea why


Daniel475
02-09-2010, 03:21 PM
salinity was at 31 .. nitrite was .1 barley reading.. ph was fine.. no idea why.. they seem to get this little bit of film on them, then the next day there dropping like flies?? not to sure whats going on but everything was doing really well up untill this? any ideas?

naesco
02-09-2010, 04:09 PM
What led up to the deaths?
Was the fish scratching or going to the surface for air?
What is the size of your tank?
When did you set it up? When did you add the fish?

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 04:14 PM
no there werent doing anything like that they were being completley normal... its a 30 gallon.. the tank has been up and running for a 2 months the clowns have been in it for a month and a half they were fine.. the tang was added 2 weeks ago and seemed fine aswell.. other stuff in the tank is a clean up crew 6 hermits and 4 snails.. a cleaner shrimp.. not to sure what went wrong

freddy
02-09-2010, 04:25 PM
Saltinity seems high,don't know if that would have caused their demise though,I keep my saltinity at 1.025.

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 04:26 PM
31 is about 1.024 with what im using to measure, just would be nice to know what happened because that was an expensive accident

blueyota
02-09-2010, 05:03 PM
what about water movement to produce oxygen in water overnight ... with lights off in a tank and not much surface movement with water.. oxygen leaves tank alot quicker ....

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 05:07 PM
i was told to leave my light off to let the shrimp clean whatever was on them off? should i turn my tank light on?? and it has a marineland filter it pushes alot of water in there for sure.. and there is alot of surface movment on the water

Dyspnea
02-09-2010, 05:26 PM
I Think this was an oxygen issue, like the others have touched on. Tangs love oxygenated water, which sounds like there wasn't alot to begin with, since the aquarium is only 30 gallons and only water movement is from a marineland filter. Tangs need alot of space 30 gallons wouldn't have cut it and most tangs need at least a four foot long tank to swim in.

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 05:29 PM
the marineland is for a 50 gallon is pushes quite a bit of water.. should i turn the light on the save my last clown??? the reason i got the tang was because i was going to upgrade to a 125 .. but so far this takes some time to get used to.. the all the fish last night almost looked like they were shedding.. not to sure what went wrong exactly but sure dont like losing fish

naesco
02-09-2010, 05:33 PM
1. Your tank likely did not finish cycling because your ammonia and nitrite readings should be zero at all times. As tjere was no scratching or gasping for air, this was the likely cause of the death of all you fish.
2. Once you have measured to ensure you have zero readings you should wait one month before you add fish and than only add one fish each month. Success in this hobby relies on patience.
3. Did you tell your LFS you only have a 30 gallon tank?
Tangs require a 6' tank that provides them with the swimming room they need. Please wait until you have a suitable tank to accommodate a tang.

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 05:36 PM
yes i told him that but i was planning on upgrading pretty soon, well thanks for all the advice.. anything i can do to help this clown out.. salinity is at 29 .. which is like 1.023 i use a hydrometer i think i should get a refractometer.. and so should i turn the light on? and what was this shedding that was coming off the fish

Jason McK
02-09-2010, 05:38 PM
1. Your tank likely did not finish cycling because your ammonia and nitrite readings should be zero at all times. As tjere was no scratching or gasping for air, this was the likely cause of the death of all you fish.
2. Once you have measured to ensure you have zero readings you should wait one month before you add fish and than only add one fish each month. Success in this hobby relies on patience.
3. Did you tell your LFS you only have a 30 gallon tank?
Tangs require a 6' tank that provides them with the swimming room they need. Please wait until you have a suitable tank to accommodate a tang.

I agree O2 sounds like the cause

I don't understand "i was told to leave my light off to let the shrimp clean whatever was on them off" Is your light under water?

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 05:41 PM
no my light is built into my canopy.. i was told the cleaner shrimp likes to clean when its dark

Jason McK
02-09-2010, 05:45 PM
I'm not sure how the shrimp would leave the water to clean them. I'm confused

Dyspnea
02-09-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm not sure how the shrimp would leave the water to clean them. I'm confused


lol, i think he means, turn off the light, so the shrimp will come out of hiding.

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 05:52 PM
i got a cleaner shrimp which is in the fish tank , to clean the tang and clowns.. there all in the tank?? nothing is out of the tank?? not sure why you thought that?

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 05:53 PM
so it will only clean when its dark?

naesco
02-09-2010, 06:35 PM
yes i told him that but i was planning on upgrading pretty soon, well thanks for all the advice.. anything i can do to help this clown out.. salinity is at 29 .. which is like 1.023 i use a hydrometer i think i should get a refractometer.. and so should i turn the light on? and what was this shedding that was coming off the fish
There are three things you can do.
1. Immediately return it to the lfs.
2. See if another reefer will put it in his tank for you
3. Set up a small qt and put the fish in it until such time as your tank cycles.

A cleaner shrimp cleans night and day.

RobynR
02-09-2010, 06:59 PM
Hey Dan,

Sorry to hear about your fish :(. I just googled 'clown fish shedding' and came up with the below note from another forum.

"usually slime-coat shedding is a water quality issue. many times it is high ammonia or nitrite that stresses the fish's skin and the fish alliviates the pain by producing more protective slime."

Can you take a picture of the clown? It might help people identify what is specifically wrong with the fish. As suggested by others, you may want to set up a hospital tank and monitor the clown, that way if the sickness does become identifiable; ick, bacterial, etc.. you can treat.

Robyn

Daniel475
02-09-2010, 07:11 PM
ya i will get some pictures after work i think paul is coming over at 4 30 after work.. i tested for nitrate and it came back as 20.. says in the instructions if its at 50 its bad??? so ph read 8.0 nitrite was .1 really light and nitrate was 20

RobynR
02-09-2010, 07:15 PM
I'll come by too, if it's okay. I wouldn't mind seeing what you guys have done with the place since moving in. Also want to see your 125 FW set up.

kien
02-09-2010, 07:19 PM
ya i will get some pictures after work i think paul is coming over at 4 30 after work.. i tested for nitrate and it came back as 20.. says in the instructions if its at 50 its bad??? so ph read 8.0 nitrite was .1 really light and nitrate was 20

What is your ammonia reading? If you have a reading then those numbers suggest to me that your tank is in fact in a cycle and still in fluctuation which can be quite taxing on fish. That compounded with what I also agree is a lack of oxygen is a very bad mix of scenarios for any inhabitants. I would follow Naesco's recommendations.

Funky_Fish14
02-09-2010, 07:24 PM
Not that im dissagreeing that it could be a problem... but a test kid reading .1 ppm for nitrite (which is 1/10th of 1ppm, that is a bad amount) is nothing surprising. Test kits suck... in general, its true. It cannot be denied. The average test kit can certainly measure some ammonia or nitrite(by that I mean a hint of colour which some might interpret as 0.1ppm) even when it is zero in the tank. Again, im not saying the nitrite is not the problem, just suggesting we not jump to the conclusion of it being the precise cause of this issue.

Cheers,

Chris

Daniel475
02-10-2010, 04:05 AM
ok did a water change got salinity good.. it does seem like an oxygen issue got the tank all topped up again then he was straight to the top poking his head out.. so i added the power head to the top of the tank to disrupt the surface.. for more oxygen .. good idea?

Jason McK
02-10-2010, 04:17 AM
What Kind of Tang is it. I truely believe you will have issues with this fish because 30G is just too small for a Tang

J

Funky_Fish14
02-10-2010, 05:51 AM
Jason I think his tang is dead, so he cant exactly have an issue with it anymore?

Any fish poking their head out of the water often means either not enough oxygen, or too much ammonia in the water. But given that you had just done a 25% water change (good idea btw), then I think maybe he was just stressed out? I would leave the powerhead there for now. I really dont think your fish died as a result of an oxygen problem. How big was the tang though? I mean unless it was huge and the clownfish are very big, its quite unlikely. It really doesn't take much to oxygenate the water, and HOB filters do a great job of it.

Also, a salinity level of 1.023 is not bad at all, just a bit low of the normal range. This probably would not cause your problem either. A refractometer is definitely a good investment (as you had mentioned you were considering).

Can you better describe the 'shedding' that your fish seemed to be doing? Was it slimy? Coloured? Rough? Clear? Thick? Did it peel off easily? How quickly did it form/come off? The more the better.

Good luck with the clown!

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. - I would take up the other reefers on their offers to come by and check out the tank. Sometimes an in-person view helps, and also they could bring their own testing kits and double check the measurements. The more confirmation and the more eyes, the better.

Daniel475
02-10-2010, 07:48 PM
i lost them all now, the tang was only about 3 inches id say.. it was a slimy clear coat that was on them it developed on monday .. did the 25 percent made water made everything perfect and nitrate still came back at 10... it was 20 before hand.. salinity is 1.024 ph is perfect .. so i think im just going to let the shrimp hermits and snails age up the tank.. maybe it wasnt done cycling? and i think they were just to stressed to survive. Any ideas on what to do? best thing leave it for a month and let it age up?

Funky_Fish14
02-10-2010, 08:12 PM
Sorry to hear.

Yeah I definitely dont think it was lack of oxygen with a tang that 'small'.

I would certainly leave the tank for a little while to mature... at least a month.

blueyota
02-10-2010, 11:07 PM
if it was ammonia and nitrate the shrimp would have died also if not first ??

RIPTANK
02-11-2010, 05:57 AM
Check your pH again. I'm bettin' it's your pH! Pick up a good pH test kit. Preferrably the Instant Ocean for about $15. Very accurate and easy to use! I had the exact same problem. My fish all dropped dead within 12 hours and were covered with a slime or mucus coating from complete stress and my LFS finally pinned it down to the pH.

Or better yet, take your water to your LFS and ask them to test the pH for you. If it is your pH then pick up some ReefPure pH buffer. Very good stuff and only about $12-$15. Be sure to mix it with some of your aquarium water first before putting it into the tank! Don't just throw a teaspoon of it directly into the tank or you'll burn your corals.

I was scratching my head 'cause my salinity/sg, temperature, ammonia, nitrate and nitrite were all reading good. Then finding my fish dropping like flies and covered in a white film of mucus. The cause of the mucus is from the fish over producing their slime coating to protect themselves from the acidity of your water. This quickly exhausts their little systems completely stressing them out and kills them. So chances are your pH is reading 7.9 or lower where it should be at 8.2-8.5.

I lost 2 blue spot jawfish, 1 percula clown, 1 yellow eye kole tang and a 6 line wrasse to dangerously low pH. All died from the same symptoms: Gasping for air, covered in a white mucus membrane and completely pale.

Daniel475
02-11-2010, 09:40 PM
thanks for all the info.. im just going to let the tank mature for a month then try again.. shrimp is still alive so ill just feed him every now and then.. give it a month read some more and get the skimmer going as well.. because i hate losing fish

Marlin65
02-11-2010, 09:45 PM
Just to trow this out there. Did your other clown live. It could be you ended up with Brookanella (clown fish decease) It kills fast and has that film like slime as well. You might want to wait 45+ days just in case. Your shrimp would not be affected.

Daniel475
02-11-2010, 09:46 PM
Brookanella? what exactly causes it?? it could have been but it was also on my tang? and my other clown didn't make it which sucks..

Marlin65
02-11-2010, 10:25 PM
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/brooklynella.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklynella_hostilis

Check here it can kill other fish as well but is most comen on clowns.

Daniel475
02-11-2010, 10:54 PM
looks very similar to what they had.. they just didn't have the white specs. but looked like they had mucus on them..