Warning- bad carbon will kill

[Snappy]

I just wanted to give a warning out to any of you that bought "HBH" brand "AQUA-PURE" carbon on a Boxing day sale to not use it. It is contaminated with metals and has been very detrimental to my reef. Unfortunately I ran it for a month with it leaching into my system before I figured it out. Any of you that were at the frag meet would have witnessed some of the damage it was causing to my corals. I thought it was a potassium over dose but I now believe this stuff is my real problem. Here is what I found when I checked my media bags. $30 for a case seems like a good deal until it kills a thousand bucks worth of corals. As usual - you get what you pay for-

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/jan2810002mediabags.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/jan2810carbon007rust1.jpg

Here's a few pieces I took out for inspection. RUST = METAL! YIKES!
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/Trainer02/jan2810carbon001rust2.jpg

[christyf5]

OMG Greg!!! :eek: I've been watching your thread on RC with great anticipation, here I thought it was going to be water chemistry (I was guessing alkalinity) but for it to be in your carbon?! That just isn't right. I hope you send them a nasty email!!!

[Snappy]

OMG Greg!!! :eek: I've been watching your thread on RC with great anticipation, here I thought it was going to be water chemistry (I was guessing alkalinity) but for it to be in your carbon?! That just isn't right. I hope you send them a nasty email!!!
All my parameters are bang on:
ca- 435
alk -8
Mag -1380
Sg -1.026
PH - 8.1 - 8.45
etc.
That is why it was so hard to figure out.
It's been a real head ache and very costly and has set my reef back big time. At least I now know the problem. I should have known better than to by cheap carbon. I'm hoping things recover quickly.

[christyf5]

Well I don't think that brand of carbon is usually all that cheap pricewise but I certainly don't think its one of the better carbons to begin with. I am a stickler about stuff in my tank after more than a few issues, but that is a pretty steep learning curve as you've already experienced. But I think you said it was $30 for a case? Thats enough to tempt anyone :wink:

[Zoaelite]

WHHHATTT!!! Greg If I were you I would be having one nasty phone call with the customer service department. Thank you for the heads up though, I will never use product from that company again. (I really hope everything perks back up for you, do you have any plans to pull the metals out of your water?)
Levi

[christyf5]

Greg, I don't know if you've ever tried polyfilters/polypads? I've had success with them before, you might want to look into getting some to remove the metals in your water.

Heres a link to them, maybe you can find them locally:

http://oceanaquatics.com/store/product/2127/Poly-Filter/

[Delphinus]

Before you throw it all out, run a magnet through it. If any sticks take a picture and email it to the company.

[Chowder]

This stuff might work as well...

http://www.jlaquatics.com/product/sc-cur0500/SeaChem+CupriSorb+Copper+Remover+-+500ml.html

Chris

[sphelps]

That's pretty nasty. Hopefully you found the source and not the cure, I know carbon isn't very effective at removing iron and other heavy metals but it does does remove small amounts. Is it possible you have an iron overdose somehow? Did you test for iron?

If you have some unused carbon remaining from the batch you could soak it in RO water and test for iron.

[cygmark]

can you send me a pm letting me know where you got it just in case , i don't want you to say it openly unless your ok with it.

Thanks
Josh

[Snappy]

I did the magnet test and it's metal. The store is located on the south side of 16 Ave NW. Thanks for the links. I'll try that.

[kien]

I just confirmed with Greg over PM that I bought the exact same stuff from the same LFS on boxing day. Lucky for me I had not yet cracked any of those boxes open to use.. I will be throwing them out pronto! I guess the price was too good to be true.

If any other Calgarians purchased cheap carbon over the Christmas Holidays from a LFS check to see if it is this brand of crabon.

[Chowder]

I'd take it back and try to get a refund.

[Ross]

Yikes!!!

Thanks for the heads up!!

[Snappy]

I'd take it back and try to get a refund.
I plan to

[kien]

The other sad part is, I was there last weekend and they still had a mountain of this stuff that they were selling for cheap. There's going to be a lot of unhappy reefers in the city if they've been using this stuff.. When you go, tell them to stop selling the stuff!

[Ross]

Here is a pic of mine from my discus tank.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossmct/4311914729/

I bought at OC, and Golds. Big Als was listing it online, but I didnt look in the store.

Looks like $30 worth of litter to me...or plant filler or something like that. :frusty:


This could be why I now have slime algae all over my plants since adding it. Thankfully my SW tanks are not using it.

[Fishward]

Small Claims Court... works wonders. 100 bucks to file.. for $1000 claim its not really worth hiring a lawyer to contest it.. you'll win automatically.. and even if they do file a defence, you've got a pretty good case.

[blueyota]

Wow thanks Greg I am running that crap right now .. my sps have been acting weird so im sure its this thanks again you saved my ass as i never would have thought of that!!!

[naesco]

Does it say hwere the product is made?

Suing them is excellent advice.

Also ensure that the LFS agrees to return the stuff to the wholesaler so that no other critters are harmed.

[Ross]

Does it say hwere the product is made?


Where would one think...

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

Where would one think...

Made in China?

[blueyota]

On the top corner it says High quality !!!!!
yea High quality crap

[Phanman]

Crap i bought some of this too...ill remove it asap. :Cry:
Thanks for the heads up
class action

[my2rotties]

OMG!!! I have been using it since Boxing day but have no ill effects. Mind you, I don't have any hard corals anymore (flat worm infestation from the same place I did not catch in time).

Will it harm my fish? Everybody seems fine and happy... will check it out after dinner darned it.

[RuGlu6]

http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/searchpage.php?product_name=HBH&all_keywords=product_name&manufacturer=&Submit.x=11&Submit.y=14


I wonder..
There are more HBH products out there, can we trust all that, or rusty carbon would say it all?

[Seamazter]

I used to use thier food.
"HBH Super Soft Spirulina Fish Food"
It was okay.

[Lance]

Holy Crap Greg! So sorry to hear this.

[lastlight]

Seems rare with mysterious problems to ever find such evidence or explanation. Sorry to have read about all your problems Greg but I'm super glad you have answers.

[simplycoral]

Wow can't believe it :surprise:; I nearly brought a box of that stuff too!

I suspect the metal is Zinc; which is sometimes a by product of carbon when it is chemically activated. I wonder if your batch had an unusually high amount of residue?

After reading this; i ran a magnet over my Marineland (Black Diamond) carbon and sure enough their are traces of metal. Worth considering if this is why i have been battling tip burn?

I think this could raise a few eyebrows!

Simon.

[Ryan]

Greg I was there when you bought it. How fast did you see negative results? Have you let the store know what you have found with the carbon?

[Snappy]

Greg I was there when you bought it. How fast did you see negative results? Have you let the store know what you have found with the carbon?
I called the store but I think there was some impact lost in translation

[o.c.d.]

I just tried the magnet test on unused Korallen or zeo carbon and elite aquatic premium carbon and they both were picked up by the magnet. Not sure why but my question now is, How accurate is this procedure. Can everyone with a strong magnet test their carbon please. So far Black diamond,HBH,Korallen,Elite Aquatic premium. all are magnetic

[mws]

I tested my Kent marine reef carbon and magnet picked up a few pellets too.

[my2rotties]

I don't have corals but have been using the stuff for a month with no ill effect on anything. I honestly thought it works fantastic. The only thing I have noticed since using it is diatoms, which prob have nothing to do with the carbon. I never had an issue with them before.

I do see little rust spots in my reactor though, but maybe two or three little tiny pieces.

[blueyota]

I also have a small diatom breakout in my sand since using it so maybe it is linked together??

[Seamazter]

I had bought some quitencence carbon from wai;s a few years back.
It was the wai;s branded brand.
But i had huge diatom problems, 2 days after i removed the carbon it cleared up.
I have been told a few times, that the carbon absorbed all that it could and was starting to leech it back into the tank.
If u remove your carbon for 2 days then id say its your carbon too.

[globaldesigns]

Is this the same stuff that Ocean City had at their front door in small containers? They tried to sell me that, but I didn't!!!

If so, Whew!!!

Greg, sorry to hear about the problems. I hope everything recovers and to everyone else, take care.

[my2rotties]

Funny you mention this. I have had my carbon shut off for two days while treating for red slime. The diatoms are now gone. Crap this really sucks.

I had bought some quitencence carbon from wai;s a few years back.
It was the wai;s branded brand.
But i had huge diatom problems, 2 days after i removed the carbon it cleared up.
I have been told a few times, that the carbon absorbed all that it could and was starting to leech it back into the tank.
If u remove your carbon for 2 days then id say its your carbon too.

[my2rotties]

Yup that is the stuff. I was really happy with how it was working but the diatoms concern me now that there might be a connection.

Is this the same stuff that Ocean City had at their front door in small containers? They tried to sell me that, but I didn't!!!

If so, Whew!!!

Greg, sorry to hear about the problems. I hope everything recovers and to everyone else, take care.

[Snappy]

I am very confused after reading this link.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TFS-4WV15MT-1&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F01%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1186054479&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8624ce7b96f66756be18e88315e12b13

It appears they add iron into some charcoal as a benefit. If it isn't the carbon that is the problem I'll need to go back to the drawing board.

[Zoaelite]

I am very confused after reading this link.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TFS-4WV15MT-1&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F01%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1186054479&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=8624ce7b96f66756be18e88315e12b13

It appears they add iron into some charcoal as a benefit. If it isn't the carbon that is the problem I'll need to go back to the drawing board.

Anyway you can have the actual metal tested in the carbon? If you can verify its Iron then I would say its back to the drawing board but if its something else that could be your culprit. (That being said I do see what seems to be rust marks on the photos you provided which would lead me to think it is iron rusting...). Excess iron in the fish tank could attribute to some algae problems (Which would explain everyone with dinoflaggelets and slime) but should not be toxic at those levels (When I tore down my 54g I found 5 completely rusted razor blades in the sand :neutral:). Greg are you finding that everything in the tank is angry at you or just the coral? What ever the solution I hope you are able to find it fast!
Levi

[o.c.d.]

So I found this at Physicsworld.com."It is also difficult to separate these small moments from the underlying "diamagnetism" of carbon. This is a very weak form of magnetism exhibited by almost all forms of carbon (and, indeed, by many other elements) in the presence of an external magnetic field. The external field alters the orbital motion of electrons and induces a small magnetic moment in a direction opposite to that of the field itself." AND the reason for what is most likely iron in carbon."The main cause for suspicion was that many of the reports claimed to have detected only small magnetic moments, which can simply be due to traces of natural magnetic contaminants. Iron, for example, is the fifth most common element in the Earth's crust, and its black oxide magnetite is everywhere in the air.

[michika]

I am also experiencing issues. I have had RTN in long established colonies, and most of my smaller frags that I would peg as advance-expert, or expert types. I removed my carbon which look just as bad as Greg's photo, if not worse, and the RTNs have stopped. I did however loose an awful lot of colour from my tank. I also lost three clams, all medium sized; 4-6" inches.

I put my carbon in on the 26th, removed it late evening of the 28th, did a water change, ran new higher grade carbon, along with some other items, and as of today the RTN has definitely stopped. My remaining clams are out, and things are once again opening up.

I'm sorry this hasn't solved your issue Greg, but it definitely was the cause of mine. Thank you for posting this, it saved me even if there was some damage done.

[o.c.d.]

michika were you using the HBH brand as well or a different type?

[Jan]

And does this problem involve the pellets or just the granular version of this particular carbon?

[Snappy]

Things are definately improving with my system since I removed the carbon.

[fencer]

There are different pHs for various prepared carbons. I don't think it is the iron as iron salts are an additive in the Ultra products. I suggest it may be something else in the carbon another contaminant? Was there a large spike in algae growth, did any of your yellow sps start turning greenish/yellow? These are signs of overdosing of iron

[rayjay]

A lot of hobbyists dose iron for their tanks to help growth of macro that they have in their tanks.
One japanese hobbyists uses a jar of nails in his sump from what I read on a post on RC.

[kien]

ya I was kinda wondering that too because GFO is more or less just that, rust? Things that make you go hmmm....

[michika]

michika were you using the HBH brand as well or a different type?

Yes. I also have seen great improvement since I've removed it from my system. My tank is still recovering, my SPS hasn't yet returned to the same colours I had before.

There are different pHs for various prepared carbons. I don't think it is the iron as iron salts are an additive in the Ultra products. I suggest it may be something else in the carbon another contaminant? Was there a large spike in algae growth, did any of your yellow sps start turning greenish/yellow? These are signs of overdosing of iron

If its not iron, it is something and it is linked to the carbon in my mind. It happened right after I put it online, and stopped after I took it out of my system. Either way I'm still thankful for this thread because I probably would have been struggling for weeks or months trying to figure out the cause.

[Chowder]

Good to hear that your tank is rebounding Greg.

Chris

Things are definately improving with my system since I removed the carbon.

[christyf5]

Good to hear that your tank is rebounding Greg.

Chris

+1 And great that you figured it out for everyone, this had (potential) disaster written all over it.

[Delphinus]

This is not the first time I've heard of weird problems in a tank attributable to carbon. I remember about 6-7 years ago, AJ_77 had a reef tank that the water was continually green, huge huge phytoplankton bloom, nothing he did would cause it to stop getting greener, until he took off his carbon (which was some obscure, presumably cheap brand, which did say on the box "for FW only"). It went away a week after he switched brands.

Did some reading on carbons based on Greg's experiences, in one of the threads discussing it, there was a link to a discussion about carbon available from BRS labelled "ROX 0.8" .. long story short, it sounds really good. I went and ordered two packages for myself already..

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

This is not the first time I've heard of weird problems in a tank attributable to carbon. I remember about 6-7 years ago, AJ_77 had a reef tank that the water was continually green, huge huge phytoplankton bloom, nothing he did would cause it to stop getting greener, until he took off his carbon (which was some obscure, presumably cheap brand, which did say on the box "for FW only"). It went away a week after he switched brands.

Did some reading on carbons based on Greg's experiences, in one of the threads discussing it, there was a link to a discussion about carbon available from BRS labelled "ROX 0.8" .. long story short, it sounds really good. I went and ordered two packages for myself already..


ROX 0.8 is great Carbon, I have used it myself. We have access to this carbon as well as lignite which is also almost as good.

[Seamazter]

I have used the ROX and now only use the Lignite, its what i consider the best carbon available, its a bit pricey but well worth it as you can see in the above posts in this thread.
Cheeper is not always better.

[Pescador]

I have used the ROX and now only use the Lignite, its what i consider the best carbon available, its a bit pricey but well worth it as you can see in the above posts in this thread.
Cheeper is not always better.

I have a gallon of ROX as well, nice stuff but a lot finer than I expected. Its tough to keep it from clumping. I might try the lignite next time.