Bullet 2 skimmer operation?

[Beza]

Hey everybody,

So today I ****ed around with my Bullet 2 skimmer, figuring out whether or not it actually ran with the pumps I have. The thing seemed to work fine, and I checked out several placements, heights, etc. to see which one would be best.

I of course ran everything with FW, because I was just checking flows and looking for leaks.

By the end of the afternoon, I decided that the skimmer seemed to run best when it was in about 8" of water... but later I was reading up on it again and I found that the PM website says NOT to have the outlet below running water level in the sump! Yet with the outlet on the bottom of the skimmer, this means that I am going to have to provide about 25" clearance ABOVE water level just for my damn skimmer!

Now I know that the difference in density for FW was likely the reason that the thing seemed to only run well when it was nice and quietly submerged, and that when I fire the SW in it will be a whole new ball game, but does anyone have any solutions or suggestions for sump creation? I'm using a 65ish 48"x24"x18" tank for the sump on a 90gal.

As far as I can tell, my options are to build a stand for in the sump, or to try running it submerged. Pumps I have to run the thing are a PCX 40, danner 1800, and danner 1200gph. Plan right now is to use the 1800 to run the skimmer so I can have it in the sump right beside it in order to cut down on piping or having to drill.

[whatcaneyedo]

Heres a pic of when I had a bullet two in a 55gal sump under my tank. You can see the water level is just above the output gate valve. Micro-bubbles where a bit of a problem for me and having the sump underneath the tank gave me no room to work.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/pic127.jpg

So now I have a bullet 3 in a stock trough sump on a stand with a filtersock around the output.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/Picture651-1.jpg

Heres a random picture of a friends bullet 3... I dont know if it helps you or not but I had it in my photobucket account so here you go.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/aquarium002.jpg

Heres another bullet 3 in another guys sump. (its in the bottom left corner)

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/whatcaneyedo/eqip.jpg

[Beza]

Ok, so if I understand correctly, I can actually pipe the outlet upwards with a 90`? This seems counter-intuitive, given that the 90 would cause the outlet to not have open flow... so why the hell can't I just bury the skimmer underwater in my sump and pipe it straight through into my first section of baffles?

Sigh. Lol. I think I'm even more confused now...

But thanks for the help. Obviously if your friend has the skimmer piped into the vertical with a 90 just after the outlet I could likely do the same thing. It looks like all I may need to do is put a tee so that it is open into regular atmosphere after the outlet, and I imagine as long as that tee opens below skimmer water level it would be fine...

...right? ha ha ha.

[whatcaneyedo]

How much clearance do you have above the water level in your sump?

I think the big issue that the instructions want you to avoid is having too much back pressure after the gate valve because that would make it impossible to set the internal water level where it needs to be... Try setting it up the way you want and see if it works. If you find that even with the gate valve wide open you cant get the water level in the skimmer low enough you will know that there is too much back pressure because its submersed.

[Skimmerking]

the water level isn't going to matter with a beckett.

[Lance]

Like Mike said: water level doesn't matter. The best scenario is to have a gate valve between the skimmer pump and the skimmer and a gate valve on the skimmer outlet. This way you can fine tune it to how you want it. The skimmer can go anywhere. My Beckett skimmer is two feet above the sump.

[Beza]

How much clearance do you have above the water level in your sump?

I think the big issue that the instructions want you to avoid is having too much back pressure after the gate valve because that would make it impossible to set the internal water level where it needs to be... Try setting it up the way you want and see if it works. If you find that even with the gate valve wide open you cant get the water level in the skimmer low enough you will know that there is too much back pressure because its submersed.

Yeah Whatcanyedo, that is the conclusion I came up with too. I figure I'll set up my sump so that I can have a minimum water height of 12", build the skimmer booster seat, and then adjust the water height from there based on skimmer operation. I was screwing around with it a bit and I still think that as long as the outlet water level is below that of the skimmer chamber I should probably be ok.



the water level isn't going to matter with a beckett.

Asmodeus, ha haa ha, please elaborate.

[Beza]

Thanks for all the input guys!

I think my question comes down to the idea of putting a skimmer BELOW the water line, which as far as I can tell is not going to work, given that the bullet 2 is open to the atmosphere. If anyone has tried this, please let me know! I am pretty sure that as long as you had a pump that was powerful enough, you could put a beckett style skimmer as high as you wanted... but the point is that I would like lots of volume in my sump, in addition to keeping the space it occupies to a minimum. Here's what I have on my drawing board so far:

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs131.snc3/17853_432283840522_628420522_10896940_133106_n.jpg


So as you can see, clearance is going to be an issue. I think that I can raise the skimmer a bit and still be ok all around. I'll post the new sump plan when it's finished.

[Skimmerking]

Yeah Whatcanyedo, that is the conclusion I came up with too. I figure I'll set up my sump so that I can have a minimum water height of 12", build the skimmer booster seat, and then adjust the water height from there based on skimmer operation. I was screwing around with it a bit and I still think that as long as the outlet water level is below that of the skimmer chamber I should probably be ok.





Asmodeus, ha haa ha, please elaborate.

oh ok I will little grass hopper. When you have a venturi skimmer there isnt any way of controlling the water the water leve land its pressure will control the water in the skimmer hence the water level.

Now with the Beckett's you have a gate valve that is controlling the water level and hence keeping wht water level at what eve you turn the gate valve too. hows that. that should make sence for ya.

[Skimmerking]

with your clearance then running the skimmer out side then you have alot of room in the sump for other things. that is the great thing about Becketts power. and EXternal

[Skimmerking]

Thanks for all the input guys!

I think my question comes down to the idea of putting a skimmer BELOW the water line, which as far as I can tell is not going to work, given that the bullet 2 is open to the atmosphere. If anyone has tried this, please let me know! I am pretty sure that as long as you had a pump that was powerful enough, you could put a beckett style skimmer as high as you wanted... but the point is that I would like lots of volume in my sump, in addition to keeping the space it occupies to a minimum. Here's what I have on my drawing board so far:

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs131.snc3/17853_432283840522_628420522_10896940_133106_n.jpg


So as you can see, clearance is going to be an issue. I think that I can raise the skimmer a bit and still be ok all around. I'll post the new sump plan when it's finished.

Well ok i will jump in again since Im on a role here i had a skimmer on the ground floor and the sump was the same leve ldidnt mater i just had the water level to run at a certain level due to the sump height really easy actually

[Beza]

Thanks for the input guys! It's been a big help!

So here's what I'm planning with the sump. It's my rough outline, so be gentle! Lol. You'll notice that I have the skimmer a few inches into the water level.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17853_432895385522_628420522_10902205_6743296_n.jp g

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17853_432895390522_628420522_10902206_809122_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17853_432895400522_628420522_10902207_2678464_n.jp g

Please let me know if there is anything I am obviously missing, or anything you might think of to make the design better before I go out and start bugging glass and plastic companies all over town for scraps!

[Skimmerking]

it looks good man well done the baffles are the correct way