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View Full Version : ??? sump design!!!! NEW DESIGN ADDED!!


The Grizz
01-21-2010, 09:32 PM
I have just bought a new tank and have to build a stand for it but I also want to build my own sump. So my question is this:

Where should the skimmers ( as in two t1000 ) be placed? Before or after the refugium?

I am planning a 44 1/2" x 21 1/2" x 16" sump with 4 compartments, this allows me to remove the sump from under the stand at any point. 1st compartment is the intake with LR rubble, 2nd compartment would be the refugium (from what I have read so far) with a DSB ( not sure if this is needed) and what ever else goes in there, 3rd compartment would be my skimmers with a bubble trap leading into the return compartment. There will also be 2 TLF Phosban 150's in the 1st compartment.

Would like to have some idea if I am going about it the right way and if there are any more thing's i should consider before I order my glass.

Also what kind of light do I need for the refugium? Where should heater be placed?

BTW the tank is 96" L x 22" W x 18" D

Here is what am thinking about building:

Coleus
01-21-2010, 09:42 PM
Greg,

Check out all Sump design here
http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

I don't think you want to have water flow out of refugium and into the skimmer at all because that reduces the efficiency of having the refugium. If the last compartment must be the return compartment then i think you should put skimmer in first and refugium in second

I think with 3 compartments, the middle one should be the one contains water that returns water to your tank. The skimmers will be one side and refugium will be on other side

But i am no expert so let's see what others have to say

The Grizz
01-21-2010, 09:49 PM
I had looked at this site before but not to closely. I think I might have found a design I like on the first page links. It is the 35 gal sump it would fit great.

globaldesigns
01-22-2010, 12:34 AM
I have just bought a new tank and have to build a stand for it but I also want to build my own sump. So my question is this:

Where should the skimmers ( as in two t1000 ) be placed? Before or after the refugium?

I am planning a 44 1/2" x 21 1/2" x 16" sump with 4 compartments, this allows me to remove the sump from under the stand at any point. 1st compartment is the intake with LR rubble, 2nd compartment would be the refugium (from what I have read so far) with a DSB ( not sure if this is needed) and what ever else goes in there, 3rd compartment would be my skimmers with a bubble trap leading into the return compartment. There will also be 2 TLF Phosban 150's in the 1st compartment.

Would like to have some idea if I am going about it the right way and if there are any more thing's i should consider before I order my glass.

Also what kind of light do I need for the refugium? Where should heater be placed?

BTW the tank is 96" L x 22" W x 18" D

Hey Greg,

The skimmers should go after the refuge.

My Refuge consists of the first compartment where the water starts and flows through LR and DSB (use to have Cheato, but don't anymore), it then drops into the second compartment where one skimmer is, then goes through a bubble trap into the 3rd compartment where another skimmer sits and the Zeovit RX. The Reactor drops water into a bubble trap, and the 3rd compartment also flows through this 2nd bubble trap. The last compartment is where I have my return pump.

I hope this helps,

Rick

Binare
01-22-2010, 12:45 AM
Your skimmer really should have first crack at the waste water. It removes detritus and other solids (food, fish crap, etc.) before they can enter the refugium, these cannot be processed by cheato or liverock and just end up as waste rotting away and contributing to nitrate problems. Then of course you have the problem of pods and any other lifeforms being destroyed by the skimmer before they can even get to your tank. So I say, let skimmer do its job, removing waste. Then let your refugium do its job, providing a safe (no predators), calm (low flow) place for pods, filter feeders etc to grow.

globaldesigns
01-22-2010, 12:48 AM
Your skimmer really should have first crack at the waste water. It removes detritus and other solids (food, fish crap, etc.) before they can enter the refugium, these cannot be processed by cheato or liverock and just end up as waste rotting away and contributing to nitrate problems. Then of course you have the problem of pods and any other lifeforms being destroyed by the skimmer before they can even get to your tank. So I say, let skimmer do its job, removing waste. Then let your refugium do its job, providing a safe (no predators), calm (low flow) place for pods, filter feeders etc to grow.

I take a different approach. Skimmers cannot process large particals of waste, Pods/critters/whatever in my LR and DSB can process/eat the larger pieces of garbage, producing a much smaller form for the skimmer to remove.

Just another point of view.

e46er
01-22-2010, 02:43 AM
I have my sump divided into 3 sections the left section houses the skimmer and carbon and gfo reactors middle section is the return with heaters and the right section is the fuge the fuge gets about 25% of the draining water while the skimmer gets 75%

fishytime
01-22-2010, 04:39 AM
If the tank has dual overflows you could run a three compartment sump like mine.....one drain to the skimmer side.....one drain to the fuge side....and return in the middle....you want both the fuge and the skimmer getting "dirty" water...you could probaly "T" the drain if it isnt dual overflow....just throwing it out there:biggrin:

The Grizz
01-22-2010, 04:45 AM
It does have dual overflow's but for some reason I can't wrap my brain around how yours is set up. Do you have any pic's posted or one's you can send me to get a better idea.

The Grizz
01-22-2010, 04:46 AM
Should also mention I got a monster 30w UV with the tank.

The Grizz
01-22-2010, 03:33 PM
more opinions??? these are great but I want it right the first time.

kien
01-22-2010, 06:51 PM
I'm a fan of the 3 chamber ('fuge - return - skimmer) model as well.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_2812.jpg?t=1264189653

Just like others have described, I have three 1" drains, one of them goes straight to the refugium, while the other two are merged into a 1 1/2" pipe that goes to the skimmer section. So that's 1/3 water goes to 'fuge, 2/3 goes to skimmer. Return is in the middle with a bubble trap between both sides, 'fuge and skimmer.

Again, 'fuge on the left, skimmer on the right, return in the middle.

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af144/muzanji/IMG_1384.jpg?t=1264189813

You can achieve the same with 'T's if you don't have 3 dedicated lines like I do :-)

globaldesigns
01-22-2010, 06:51 PM
Here is a diagram I did up for you on how my refuge/sump is setup.

It is a 105G setup running my 180G Display.

http://www.tanktopia.com/personalimages/sump.jpg

The Codfather
01-22-2010, 08:02 PM
+1 on globaldesigns diagram, here are two shots of mine, somewhat similar, a early shot and what it looks like now.
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/codfather_2009/DSC00002_2.jpg
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/codfather_2009/IMG_0335.jpg

Atomikk
01-22-2010, 09:25 PM
You can consider my Canyon style design:

http://blog.fragd.it/2008/12/10/reefroom-a-continued-the-sump/

http://blog.fragd.it/wp-content/uploads/sump_build3.jpg
http://blog.fragd.it/wp-content/uploads/finished_sump2.jpg

Binare
01-22-2010, 09:49 PM
Great designs. Just for discussions sake, I'm curious as to why so many people allow water to bypass their skimmers in designs like this. The water being passed through a "skimmer section" where input and output are both within allows water to bypass, and some water already processed to be processed again. I personally like direct fed or recircs for this reason. I can plumb my drain directly into a recirc and have 100% of the water processed, then flow through a refugium split into two horizontal layers. Bottom being a benthic low light zone shaded by an upper zone of macro. Macro layer limited to 2" or 3" deep so no need to turn or swirl. Then onto return/chemical filtration section. The only bypass happening is the chemical portion, which is unavoidable. I'm curious too as to how many people match their flow to the sump and NOT the display. Matching flow to the sump, taking into account what the skimmer processes and the needs of the refugium makes more efficient use of the sump IMO.

The Grizz
01-23-2010, 04:01 AM
Holy Crap Codfather & Atomikk you 2 must have some huge a** display's. Those are MONSTER sump.

The Grizz
01-23-2010, 04:09 AM
Here is a diagram I did up for you on how my refuge/sump is setup.

It is a 105G setup running my 180G Display.

http://www.tanktopia.com/personalimages/sump.jpg
Rick this kind of design would solve my problem of my return pump not being in the middle of my stand like I want. As well I could make my overflow line's the same lenght. I would like to keep my sump under 47" long so if I need to pull it out from under the tank I can as my stand is going to be a steel frame with removable 1/2" oak panel's & doors on all 4 sides.

globaldesigns
01-23-2010, 10:35 PM
Rick this kind of design would solve my problem of my return pump not being in the middle of my stand like I want. As well I could make my overflow line's the same lenght. I would like to keep my sump under 47" long so if I need to pull it out from under the tank I can as my stand is going to be a steel frame with removable 1/2" oak panel's & doors on all 4 sides.

I can't pull mine out, remember mine is metal also. if this is a new tank setup, I wouldn't worry about pulling it in or out. Just build or buy a good one. Place the refuge/sump in place ontop of plywood and foam, lift stand overtop and place, then put DT in place. Always remember to put plywood and foam on display also. Make it as big as possible in order to give yourself ample room. Also the benefit of extra water is always a good thing.

Let me know how it goes.

How was the bike show? I missed it last weekend here in Calgary, wanted to go. I am getting the itch to ride. Hey, if you have a bike, we should get together during the season for a jont or 2.

The Grizz
01-24-2010, 05:19 AM
I can't pull mine out, remember mine is metal also. if this is a new tank setup, I wouldn't worry about pulling it in or out. Just build or buy a good one. Place the refuge/sump in place ontop of plywood and foam, lift stand overtop and place, then put DT in place. Always remember to put plywood and foam on display also. Make it as big as possible in order to give yourself ample room. Also the benefit of extra water is always a good thing.

Let me know how it goes.

How was the bike show? I missed it last weekend here in Calgary, wanted to go. I am getting the itch to ride. Hey, if you have a bike, we should get together during the season for a jont or 2.
What is the styro for under the DT for? I have never done that on any of my tanks. The stand I am building is going to be made so the sump sit's on a lower shelf not on the floor. And the top of the stand is going to be 3/4" oak.

Didn't make it to the Calgary or Edmonton show but I am involved in the Red Deer show all weekend. Friday & today where good, one more day to go. I actually have 2 bike's, 2000 Honda Magna 750 & 2008 Harley Sportster Roadster that I won in 2007. I am the Red Deer coordinator for the Alberta Ride For Sight, this is my 10th yr. This years ride is going to the Stony Nakota Resort & Casino 30 min West of Calgary you should come. I will be posting more about that soon.

I am getting that same itch as my riding season was cut short last year with arm surgury. The snow can't leave fast enough for me.

The Grizz
01-24-2010, 06:13 AM
Here is another design, don't have any fancy drafting program only this stupid paint program.

Water enters in the top left compartment with LR, flows clockwise into Refugium, then 1st skimmer & bubble trap, into 2nd skimmer & bubble trap, into PhosBan Reactor compartment and finally return compartment full with LR. Pump in return compartment supplies 30w UV and returns into first compartment.

BLUE DOT'S = Supply Pump
RED DOT'S = Skimmer's
BLACK DOT"S = Reactor's
GRAY OVAL = UV

Second drawing show's baffles from the back of sump, Third drawing show's baffels from the front.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx291/GRIZZtheWELDER/SumpDesign-1.jpg

banditpowdercoat
01-24-2010, 12:32 PM
better to have your baffles Over/under/Over than Under/Over/Under The more the water has to move up, the more chances for bubbles to rise to the surface and escape

fishytime
01-24-2010, 03:13 PM
It does have dual overflow's but for some reason I can't wrap my brain around how yours is set up. Do you have any pic's posted or one's you can send me to get a better idea.

It a simple sump.....and the design has worked well for me.....lots of pics in the first couple pages of my tank journal thread....http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40669 ....

globaldesigns
01-24-2010, 08:29 PM
What is the styro for under the DT for? I have never done that on any of my tanks. The stand I am building is going to be made so the sump sit's on a lower shelf not on the floor. And the top of the stand is going to be 3/4" oak.

Didn't make it to the Calgary or Edmonton show but I am involved in the Red Deer show all weekend. Friday & today where good, one more day to go. I actually have 2 bike's, 2000 Honda Magna 750 & 2008 Harley Sportster Roadster that I won in 2007. I am the Red Deer coordinator for the Alberta Ride For Sight, this is my 10th yr. This years ride is going to the Stony Nakota Resort & Casino 30 min West of Calgary you should come. I will be posting more about that soon.

I am getting that same itch as my riding season was cut short last year with arm surgury. The snow can't leave fast enough for me.

Styro helps to relieve any stress points that may happen. You will see in most setups that styro is put between the tank and the plywood.

I am always into a ride, keep me posted on that one.

The Grizz
01-25-2010, 01:56 AM
better to have your baffles Over/under/Over than Under/Over/Under The more the water has to move up, the more chances for bubbles to rise to the surface and escape
Opps ya that is the way I way I meant to draw it,lol. It was 2 am after a 12 hr day at the bike show. Thanks for pointing that out.

The Grizz
01-25-2010, 11:46 PM
Ok I fixed my crappy little drawing that I did on paint to show the baffle's going the right way. So some feedback now would be great because I am getting some quote's for acrylic. 1st quote from GE Ploy is cheaper then the glass shop here in Red Deer.