Difference between 1.5" and 2" drain in overflow

[christyf5]

So my 180 gallon was drilled for a 2" bulkhead. I figured since I was working with 1.5" (and I'd have to buy a full 12' of 2" pipe) I'd reduce it and do all the same plumbing. However my durso is pretty much under water above the elbow and makes a lovely sucking noise. I'm trying to make this tank as quiet as possible so for now I've throttled back my Dart pump to about half. In hindsight I probably didn't need the Dart.

Anyhoo, will going back to 2" pipe make much of a difference? I'd really like to run the dart full open or as close to it as possible for extra flow.

[fishytime]

Have you fiddled with the vent hole?....I wouldnt restrict the drain.....unless you had an emergency drain....

[christyf5]

Yeah, if I don't have a cap on it its disgustingly loud. With the cap on, it surges. So I drilled a bunch of holes in the cap so its not so loud and doesn't surge. Its still pretty loud though.

I was thinking of maybe putting a jog in the pipe going from the bottom of the tank to the sump like so: _|
.................................................. .................................................. ....................................| (ignore the dots, stupid thing wouldn't accept spaces to get it there)


but then that just slows down the water in the overflow even more.

I'm currently running a stockman in my 90gal, it's nice and silent but theres a lot of algae growing in my overflow and it constantly clogs the holes of the stockman.

[shrimpchips]

According to here (http://www.flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml), the difference in gravity flow between a 1.5" drain (2100gph) and 2" (3300gph) is 1200gph - fairly substantial. Now, I don't know if those numbers are 100% accurate or not, but even if they're off by 25%, I'd say there's still a significant increase in drainage using the full 2".

[fishytime]

Herbie......:razz:

[mark]

I'm running 2-2" Dursos and drilled one vent hole in each cap matched for when first running ~2000gph. Strangely they are different sizes (5/32 and 7/32 just checked with an index) but generally overall they are small. Only about 1000gph now but holes still working, not Herbie silent but the Dursos are really really quiet.

Do remember would get the up/down and sucking in the overflow with cap and no hole, small hole would get the variation in the overflow level but no sucking and still a little noisy but once hit the right hole size, the sound just dropped off level stabilized.

Now if I see the level in the overflow moving a bit, know I have a little salt creep to clear.

[Delphinus]

It would probably make some difference. Think it's called the "double/quadruple principle", if you double the pipe diameter you get quadruple the potential flow at the same pressures. I'm not sure I'd do the jog. Sorta sucks but it might be worth getting that length of 2" pipe and see how it goes. :neutral:

[findingnemo1]

Christy i'll talk to Craig tonite and see what we had on there. Cause that tank was in my living room in Sherwood park and i never heard it. And i know we did have a reducer on it as we'll.:)

[PoonTang]

Initally my tank was surging too and I have dual 1.5" and a dart. I wound up having to use 2 drain valves for a while to get increased flow to my sump and that would quiet it down so I would say its definately a flow issue. Go with the 2" it will be quieter and safer.

[sphelps]

Durso standpipes should be one size bigger than the drain to work properly, so if you're using 1.5" pipe for the drain, your durso standpipe should be 2". This should fix your problem.

FYI many plumbing stores will sell PVC pipe by the foot.

[Chin_Lee]

Herbie......:razz:
Once you've had Herbie...... you'll never go back. :lol:

[christyf5]

Christy i'll talk to Craig tonite and see what we had on there. Cause that tank was in my living room in Sherwood park and i never heard it. And i know we did have a reducer on it as we'll.:)

You guys had 1.25" pipe on there. Its hell finding that stuff around here but oddly enough the 1.5" is pretty popular so I went with that. 2" just seemed like overkill to me but my original plans for the dart included a few elbows and PVC. I ended up switching to spaflex and reduced the elbows to just what is in the wavy sea so much more flow than I'd planned on I guess.

[christyf5]

Durso standpipes should be one size bigger than the drain to work properly, so if you're using 1.5" pipe for the drain, your durso standpipe should be 2". This should fix your problem.

FYI many plumbing stores will sell PVC pipe by the foot.

Unfortunately we don't have many plumbing stores. We have Home Hardware. Home Depot doesn't sell it (they only sell the type for irrigation, tons of holes in it) and I'm not sure about Rona, they seem more like a "I need to hang a picture, do you have nails and an apartment sized hammer?" type of store, either that or we have a mini-Rona :razz:

[christyf5]

Once you've had Herbie...... you'll never go back. :lol:

I'm of the understanding that in order to do a Herbie overflow you need two holes drilled. The overflow box doesn't have the space and the tank is already running so that ship has sailed.

[sphelps]

Unfortunately we don't have many plumbing stores. We have Home Hardware. Home Depot doesn't sell it (they only sell the type for irrigation, tons of holes in it) and I'm not sure about Rona, they seem more like a "I need to hang a picture, do you have nails and an apartment sized hammer?" type of store, either that or we have a mini-Rona :razz:

Well either way you should be using a 2" standpipe to match your 1.5" drain. You could always use 2" ABS which may be easier to find in your area, it also typically comes in 4 foot lengths.

[sphelps]

I'm of the understanding that in order to do a Herbie overflow you need two holes drilled. The overflow box doesn't have the space and the tank is already running so that ship has sailed.

You can do a herbie with a single large hole (2") but if you're having issues finding parts for a 2" standpipe then building a single drain herbie will be a much greater challenge. Here's a drawing for reference, if it's really something you want I could probably build it for you and ship it to you.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/misc/Herbiinone.jpg

[christyf5]

Well either way you should be using a 2" standpipe to match your 1.5" drain. You could always use 2" ABS which may be easier to find in your area, it also typically comes in 4 foot lengths.

Oh I always thought ABS was bad?

[sphelps]

Oh I always thought ABS was bad?
No, that's a common myth. ABS is completely potable and safe for aquariums. ABS is used in drains because it has a higher resistance to chemicals. Also most of the plastic parts already in your aquarium like pumps and magnet cleaners are made from ABS.

[christyf5]

Oh! Well thats great info! :biggrin:

So I'm at a bit of a loss with the photo you posted of the single herbie. Why does it have 1.25" pipe in it? Does the 1.25" pipe go all the way through, how is it affixed in the 2" pipe? And whats going on with the gate valve?

Sorry for all the questions, apparently I need more caffeine :razz:

[sphelps]

So I'm at a bit of a loss with the photo you posted of the single herbie. Why does it have 1.25" pipe in it? Does the 1.25" pipe go all the way through, how is it affixed in the 2" pipe? And whats going on with the gate valve?


The 1.25" pipe goes all the way through (it's one piece) and acts as the secondary or back up drain. It's supported inside the 2" pipe by the bushing.

The primary drain is created by the 2" pipe. Water flows in between the 2" and 1.25" pipe and then through the gate valve. The gate valve is used to match the flow rate to the return pump and adjust the water level in the overflow box to just below the top of the 1.25" pipe. It's just like a standard herbie but the back up drain is inside the primary.

Make sense?

[christyf5]

The 1.25" pipe goes all the way through (it's one piece) and acts as the secondary or back up drain. It's supported inside the 2" pipe by the bushing.

The primary drain is created by the 2" pipe. Water flows in between the 2" and 1.25" pipe and then through the gate valve. The gate valve is used to match the flow rate to the return pump and adjust the water level in the overflow box to just below the top of the 1.25" pipe. It's just like a standard herbie but the back up drain is inside the primary.

Make sense?

Yep we use something like that in our tanks at work (DFO), only the "inner pipe doesn't go all the way through, it sits in the bushing and has a hole in it at the level we want the tank at, reducing the flow. To flush the tank we pull up on the inner pipe and the flow is increased dramatically and sucks out all the detritus.

Cool, thats definitely something to investigate further. Thanks for the info!! :biggrin:

[Reefer Rob]

What an ingenious little bit of plumbing! I have 2 holes in each overflow, so I don't need it personally, but I think a link to that should almost be a sticky somewhere.

One thing I was thinking. What about eliminating the 2" standpipe inside the overflow. This should increase the flow potential and reduce detritus buildup in the overflow... just a thought.

[mark]

sphelps,

any idea of the max gph?

[untamed]

You can do a herbie with a single large hole (2") but if you're having issues finding parts for a 2" standpipe then building a single drain herbie will be a much greater challenge. Here's a drawing for reference, if it's really something you want I could probably build it for you and ship it to you.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/misc/Herbiinone.jpg

I think that is brilliant! I certainly understand how that might work assuming you get adequate flow through the gap between the 1.25" and 2" pipes.

[sphelps]

What about eliminating the 2" standpipe inside the overflow. This should increase the flow potential and reduce detritus buildup in the overflow... just a thought.
If you did this then the full overflow box would drain when the flow is shut off, not always a good thing unless you have the sump volume, but an option for sure.

[sphelps]

sphelps,

any idea of the max gph?
The cross sectional area between the 2" and the 1.25" pipe is very close to the area of a 1.25" pipe. So both the primary and secondary should each be capable of flowing what is typical for a 1.25" drain.

[PoonTang]

Christy I have some 2" here but not much, your welcome to it. How much do you need? Home Hardware etc. all sell it by the foot.

[christyf5]

Christy I have some 2" here but not much, your welcome to it. How much do you need? Home Hardware etc. all sell it by the foot.

Hmm the last time I was in there they sold it by a full piece or a half piece ("cuz once its cut its hard to sell"). Maybe I need to be male :confused: :razz:

I need about 4 feet I think.

[Canadian]

Christy,

You guys have an Andrew Sheret in Nanaimo. They should have anything you'd need. But they won't sell you pipe by the foot.

Here's the address:

2545 McCULLOUGH ROAD

[superduperwesman]

Can we sticky this... took me forever to find it today ahah

[banditpowdercoat]

Durso's will allways make some noise but ya if pipe is to small, it will make more noise.

I will never do another tank unless it's Herbie style. In fact, Combine them for 3 drains. 1 Herbie gate valved, another Durso, full open to take the excess the gate valved one doesn't and a Emergency line.

I want to change my tank now, but I can't get behind it to re-plumb my drains :(

[Seth81]

Durso's will allways make some noise but ya if pipe is to small, it will make more noise.

I will never do another tank unless it's Herbie style. In fact, Combine them for 3 drains. 1 Herbie gate valved, another Durso, full open to take the excess the gate valved one doesn't and a Emergency line.

I want to change my tank now, but I can't get behind it to re-plumb my drains :(


If you do go Herbie, just don't do what I did... see my post in DIY "Herbie design fail"

[StirCrazy]

Oh I always thought ABS was bad?


Christy, we went throught this 10 years ago......

Steve

[input80]

Delete, redo.

[input80]

You can do a herbie with a single large hole (2") but if you're having issues finding parts for a 2" standpipe then building a single drain herbie will be a much greater challenge. Here's a drawing for reference, if it's really something you want I could probably build it for you and ship it to you.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a174/sphelps/misc/Herbiinone.jpg
Has anyone built/tried this with any success & if so would anyone with the skill/know how care to help me to build one, or even build it for me ? Will pay accordingly.

[Simons]

My durso is completely silent. I do have two 90 deg bends in the lines before it hits my sump however.