Reef Crystal IO salt

[Coleus]

Yesterday, I mixed my Ro/di fresh water with Instant Ocean Reef Crystal. Got the salanity to 35ppt (1.026) and temp is 79F and did some water testing. I found the parameter is not what it claims on the bucket

The claim:
Cal : 455ppm
Mg: 1345ppm

Well the result i am getting from my Salifer Test kit is

Cal: 400 ppm
Mg: 1230 ppm

Anyone knows why?

Thanks

[globaldesigns]

Personally I am thinking it can be that buckets of salt can have some variance, but also the test kit may not be accurate.

Try another test kit if you have one, or have someone you can borrow another brand of testing.

[Stones]

Did you give the salt in the bucket a good mixing before you mixed up your batch of salt water? This can greatly help to get the parameters closer to normal as some settling of individual minerals always occurs during transport.

[67Stang]

I mixed an entire bucket of Instant Ocean Reef Crystals with fresh RO/DI for my new tank and my Calcium was only 370ppm. (API test kit)

I found a thread on Reef Central about some suspect or bad batches:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1298050

Yesterday, I mixed my Ro/di fresh water with Instant Ocean Reef Crystal. Got the salanity to 35ppt (1.026) and temp is 79F and did some water testing. I found the parameter is not what it claims on the bucket

The claim:
Cal : 455ppm
Mg: 1345ppm

Well the result i am getting from my Salifer Test kit is

Cal: 400 ppm
Mg: 1230 ppm

Anyone knows why?

Thanks

[The Grizz]

I think it is time for me to switch salt as my Mg is almost no existant & it will cost me a fortune in additive to get it back up and stay there. Not to mention everything else that is required to maintain a reef tank.

What is a good salt to buy and who has the best price.

[Marlin65]

I switched to H2o as their numbers are a bit better but it is a lot more. It will still be cheaper to run IO even with supplements if cost is you prime reason.

[The Grizz]

I switched to H2o as their numbers are a bit better but it is a lot more. It will still be cheaper to run IO even with supplements if cost is you prime reason.
Well the cost of supp's is high just to get levels up. But a better salt brand would reduce the amount of supp's needed. I have only been into SW for about 8 month & was told IO was the right choice of salt. It is not the Reef Crystals IO just IO. The only parameter I am having an issue with is Mg.

[Marlin65]

little silver max is the best place to get some supplements. He is closer to you than to me.:wink:

[The Grizz]

That is for sure. I was doing a little research and Red Sea Coral Salt sounds like a good brand to.

[whatcaneyedo]

Yesterday, I mixed my Ro/di fresh water with Instant Ocean Reef Crystal. Got the salanity to 35ppt (1.026) and temp is 79F and did some water testing. I found the parameter is not what it claims on the bucket

The claim:
Cal : 455ppm
Mg: 1345ppm

Well the result i am getting from my Salifer Test kit is

Cal: 400 ppm
Mg: 1230 ppm

Anyone knows why?

Thanks

There have been many articles and posts pointing out that different test kits provide different values for the same chemicals. Even within the same brand I have received different readings between test kits. For instance I had a 'new' Salifert Alkalinity kit that claimed my alkalinity was 2 dkh higher than what my 'old' Salifert Alkalinity kit stated (neither had expired yet btw). It doesnt necessarily mean that the manufacturers lied on their bucket of salt or that it was a bad batch. Hobby grade test kits are all crap. Some crappier than others. But as long as they're close to your target range it really doesnt matter.

I've also found Magnesium to be one of the least expensive trace elements to supplement. I just buy my own non-pharmaceutical grade 100% Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate de-icing salt and mix it with Magnesium Sulfate epson salts (7:1 ratio by weight). It costs less than $1/lbs and I've been using it for over a year now with no adverse side effects on three tanks.

[ponokareefer]

Finding a salt that is high in magnesium seems to be the most difficult task. I was using a high end salt, but the magnesium levels were still only in the 1100's, so I'm switching to Instant Ocean, which is half the cost, and just dosing magnesium. Don't be fooled by "independant" salt studies of the high end salt either, like I was. I'd contact littlesilvermax, as someone else has suggested, and get the magnesium in bulk to supplement for cheap.

[rayjay]

Two more threads of interest from RC on the new I.O salt.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1714505

The second thread, while starting out about cost of I.O., gets into what people are finding for levels of the new production of the salt, and comments by Randy Holmes-Farley about I.O. and it's makeup.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1727469&highlight=Instant+Ocean+calcium+magnesium

[banditpowdercoat]

I tried reef Crystal's. Went back to regular IO. Myka did a cost breakdown, even if you supplimented IO with top shelf suppliment's. It still would be cheaper than the salts that have more MG/CA. And those salts, you still have to dose. Just not enough. Most salts, I think, are more made for a FOWLR tank, and if you need more MG/CA, you just gotta dose it for what your tank requires.

[mark]

Since reading such a variance in levels in salt (all brands) I'm just sticking to plain old IO. I know the levels for Ca and Mg are low as do a couple of tests on each new pail, but then can easily supplement with bulk additives for probably about $5 a bucket (definitely less than $10).

[globaldesigns]

I used Reef Crystals, I don't do many water changes and find dosing not a big deal or a big cost. I use Seachem dry products, very inexpensive and good quality. Red Cora is selling LittleSilverMax products, but at $5 per cup, that is way too expensive compared to Seachem.

LittleSilverMax, I would be interested in knowing what you charge for MG, St, and Calcium and how it compares to Seachem. I am always interested if it is a higher grade product or cheaper for the same stuff. Thanks...

[banditpowdercoat]

I used Reef Crystals, I don't do many water changes and find dosing not a big deal or a big cost. I use Seachem dry products, very inexpensive and good quality. Red Cora is selling LittleSilverMax products, but at $5 per cup, that is way too expensive compared to Seachem.

LittleSilverMax, I would be interested in knowing what you charge for MG, St, and Calcium and how it compares to Seachem. I am always interested if it is a higher grade product or cheaper for the same stuff. Thanks...

$5/cup?? WOW.
You can search ChemMasters threads here, he's got prices, Mg is like $2.95/Lb. shipping is extra but works to about $1-$1.5/Lb depending on volume

[globaldesigns]

$5/cup?? WOW.
You can search ChemMasters threads here, he's got prices, Mg is like $2.95/Lb. shipping is extra but works to about $1-$1.5/Lb depending on volume

Yeah, Kevin at Red Coral is selling by the cup, he says one cup is equal to one pound. At $5 a pound that isn't cheap. However $1-1.50 a pound is really good.

Can you tell me what is better about his products, I am very interested to hear it. And at that price I think it is even cheaper than Seachem.

[banditpowdercoat]

Yeah, Kevin at Red Coral is selling by the cup, he says one cup is equal to one pound. At $5 a pound that isn't cheap. However $1-1.50 a pound is really good.

Can you tell me what is better about his products, I am very interested to hear it. And at that price I think it is even cheaper than Seachem.

Iv'e been using CM additives for a year now and love them. cheap and easy, Mix with RO, and add to high flow area, slowly in overflow works great for me. I will have to weigh it when I get home, 1 cup probibally is a LB, I wouldnt thnk Kevin would lie. I never thought about how much weight per volume before. But after paying the price for liquid CA/Mg and now the bulk crystals, I won't go back to liquid. Theres some pretty good threads on CM's products, check them out.

http://canreef.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=67

[whatcaneyedo]

Yeah, Kevin at Red Coral is selling by the cup, he says one cup is equal to one pound. At $5 a pound that isn't cheap. However $1-1.50 a pound is really good.

Can you tell me what is better about his products, I am very interested to hear it. And at that price I think it is even cheaper than Seachem.

$1-1.50 a pound is the shipping cost that banditpowdercoat was quoting. You have to add that to the product cost for the total. So you're looking at $4 - 4.50/lbs to buy direct. A savings of $.50 - 1.00/lbs instead of buying it from Red Coral, which isnt a whole lot but it does add up. You may want to contact Littlesilvermax yourself to verify.

[mark]

really don't want to do the math again but while ago I figured $5-10 to supplement a pail from chemicals fr littlesilvermax.

From another source, recent post here (http://canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=59495)had bulk Ca at $113 for 50kg ($2.26/kg). I change about 20g a time, supplement Ca using about 1oz by volume of the Dowflake, or 33grams. For a pail (160g / 8 changes), about 0.26kg total.

Use lots more Mg about 180gram per change, 1.4kg per pail with LSM selling MG around $5/kg

[globaldesigns]

$1-1.50 a pound is the shipping cost that banditpowdercoat was quoting. You have to add that to the product cost for the total. So you're looking at $4 - 4.50/lbs to buy direct. A savings of $.50 - 1.00/lbs instead of buying it from Red Coral, which isnt a whole lot but it does add up. You may want to contact Littlesilvermax yourself to verify.

If that is the case then Red Coral isn't overcharging. I however, will eventually talk to LittleSilverMax. Thanks.

[Coleus]

Ok

I am about to give up with this reef crystal. I bought another reef crystal IO bucket and mix the salt with RO/DI water and leave it for a day. I also dosed 8 tsp of Seachem Advance Magnesium (which should increase 55 ppm) to the water before adding the salt.

Well. I test the MG with two different test kits and they all come to be around 1200

What am i missing?

If you buy IO salt and bulk Mg from chemmaster, how many tsp do you add to 15 gallon new water?

Thanks.

[whatcaneyedo]

A cup full should get you to where you want to be.

I make about 27gal at a time to do a 10% water change on my system. I use half IO salt and half Seachem Reef salt then add a little more than 2 cups of a similar Mg mix. By doing so my tanks Ca is 450, Alk is 9dkh and Mg is 1450.

Or use this calculator http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

To raise 15gal of water from Mg 1000 to 1500 use 8.3oz (56.3 tsp aka 1 cup). If you dont want to go as high as 1500 try 3/4 cup.

[rayjay]

Ok
I am about to give up with this reef crystal. I bought another reef crystal IO bucket and mix the salt with RO/DI water and leave it for a day. I also dosed 8 tsp of Seachem Advance Magnesium (which should increase 55 ppm) to the water before adding the salt.
Well. I test the MG with two different test kits and they all come to be around 1200. What am i missing?
The results you get are not typical of the new I.O. salt mix.
If mixed to a s.g. of 1.0264 (35ppt) then you should be finding that the new IO should be about 400 ppm and 1350 ppm magnesium or so.
If your s.g. is lower then your mag level will also be lower, but with the new salt, your s.g. would probably have to be around 1.023 to get mag levels of 1200.
To boost magnesium takes a lot more of whatever product you are using to boost it, than most people would expect, because the flake is mostly water. (hexahydrate)

[banditpowdercoat]

I use 3 tsp of Ca and 1 cup of Mg for 15g of IO salt at 1.024 Sg isn't 1.026 a little high ?

[rayjay]

I use 3 tsp of Ca and 1 cup of Mg for 15g of IO salt at 1.024 Sg isn't 1.026 a little high ?
High is only in the eyes of the beholder I guess.
When I started seventeen years ago, it was normal to keep 1.026 for a reef tank as that is what the majority of the ocean water is at, where our fish and corals come from.
Many hobbyists keeping fish only used water with less salt content for one reason or another, but the same hobbyists kept the s.g. at 1.026 for their reef tank because it was better for the inverts and corals.
Based on my years of reading the forums on RC, I believe that the majority of hobbyists are using at least 1.025 - 1.026.

[banditpowdercoat]

High is only in the eyes of the beholder I guess.
When I started seventeen years ago, it was normal to keep 1.026 for a reef tank as that is what the majority of the ocean water is at, where our fish and corals come from.
Many hobbyists keeping fish only used water with less salt content for one reason or another, but the same hobbyists kept the s.g. at 1.026 for their reef tank because it was better for the inverts and corals.
Based on my years of reading the forums on RC, I believe that the majority of hobbyists are using at least 1.025 - 1.026.

Ahh, maybe I should raise my Sg a little then, since I started FOWLR and now trying to keep corals. hence Trying!!! LOL

[rayjay]

Just be sure to make the change gradual.
Perhaps just add water mixed at 1.028 instead of your normal top up water (to replace evaporation) until the level comes up to where you choose to keep it.
That being said, there are many who keep their reef tanks at 1.024. Obviously you do need to boost the calcium and magnesium if you want NSW levels for those elements, but not wanting the NSW s.g. level.
With FOWLR, changes to salinity still need to make made gradually in an upwards direction, but can be made rapidly in the downward direction because of the way osmoregulation works with fish.

[The Grizz]

I keep my reef tank @1.026 now using IO reef crystals and have notice that my coral's & livstock seem to like it better. My FOWLR is @1.024 using just the IO salt.

[The Grizz]

Ok

I am about to give up with this reef crystal. I bought another reef crystal IO bucket and mix the salt with RO/DI water and leave it for a day. I also dosed 8 tsp of Seachem Advance Magnesium (which should increase 55 ppm) to the water before adding the salt.

Well. I test the MG with two different test kits and they all come to be around 1200

What am i missing?

If you buy IO salt and bulk Mg from chemmaster, how many tsp do you add to 15 gallon new water?

Thanks.
Tai, I bought some of the Seachem Mg as well and for the price of it I am not happy with the results as you have to add so much to make an impact. With the Mg mix from ChemMasters you do use a lot more but the cost of it is SO much less in comparison to the SeaChem stuff.

[Coleus]

The results you get are not typical of the new I.O. salt mix.
If mixed to a s.g. of 1.0264 (35ppt) then you should be finding that the new IO should be about 400 ppm and 1350 ppm magnesium or so.
If your s.g. is lower then your mag level will also be lower, but with the new salt, your s.g. would probably have to be around 1.023 to get mag levels of 1200.
To boost magnesium takes a lot more of whatever product you are using to boost it, than most people would expect, because the flake is mostly water. (hexahydrate)

My s.g is at 1.0264. How do you know if i have a old or new I.O salt? Is there difference on the label? Mine saying at 1.0264, I should get Calc 440 ppm and Mg 1350 ppm but I don't get those number is why I am so frustrated.

Thanks for all response btw, they are very helpful.

Cheers

[Coleus]

Tai, I bought some of the Seachem Mg as well and for the price of it I am not happy with the results as you have to add so much to make an impact. With the Mg mix from ChemMasters you do use a lot more but the cost of it is SO much less in comparison to the SeaChem stuff.


Greg, you better put in your order fast because a 2.2 kg ($27.99) only last me for a week :-)

[The Grizz]

Greg, you better put in your order fast because a 2.2 kg ($27.99) only last me for a week :-)
Ya I noticed that, I am almost out myself. i have heard lot's of good thing's about ChemMaster's mix and I think it is the answer to all my problems with Mg, going to get some Ca as well.