HELP ME! No one seems to know what is killing my fish!

[Salty_Hobby]

I bought a new anemone with clown fish a week and a half ago... and I know better than to put it straight in my tank but I did...

Now I have a white film growing all over my glass and on most of everything in my tank. My ammonia levels spiked and I've got it down to about 1ppm but my fish are still suffering. Nothing I try is relieving the ammonia and I don't know what the white film is or how to get rid of it.

The white film is like a cloudy layer with spots of concentrated white. Almost like a bacterial culture is growing?

I've attached some pictures, please help with any advice you have. I have been using ammolock over the past 5-7 days, but have moved to Stability to try and get the ammonia under control.

I bought a spare tank if I need to move my fish to a clean tank if I can't get the water quality under conotrol. Any advice?! My fish are dieing, my anemone is wilting and my sea urchin has dropped all his spines :(

[JDigital]

How old is your tank?

[Salty_Hobby]

About 1 yr, maybe 11 months.

[JDigital]

Could be possible that your anemone is nuking the tank, especially if you didn't do any type of drip acclimation for it??

Can you post some of your parameters?

[Salty_Hobby]

I don't even know what a drip acclimation is :(

Sorry I am new to this what kind of paramters are you looking for?

[JDigital]

Ca:
Alk:
Mg:
PH:
Temp:
Salinity:
Ammonia:
Nitrate/trites:

[lucyw]

Now I have a white film growing all over my glass and on most of everything in my tank. My ammonia levels spiked and I've got it down to about 1ppm but my fish are still suffering. Nothing I try is relieving the ammonia and I don't know what the white film is or how to get rid of it.

When did this start happening (a time frame after you put these in your tank).

Also which calgary store did you purchase from?

Did you contact them and what did they say?

I agree with jdital about complete parameters.

My only guess is a white flatworm or something related to it and it is spreading and dieing off causing an amonia spike.

Lucy

[Salty_Hobby]

I don't have anything to test Ca, Alk, Mg or NO2/NO3
My pH is about 8.2
Temp 76 F
Salinity 1.0215
Ammonia 1ppm

I'm taking in a water sample tomorrow to have it tested for more parameters.
Do these help?

[Salty_Hobby]

It started happening about 10 days after they went in the tank (it was visibily noticeable at 10 days but my fish were groggy about 5 days after the new arrivals)

I bought them from Pisces who don't guarantee anything so I didn't call (plus I don't think they really know what's what there - I may be wrong)

Red Coral (Kevin) also thought it might be a flat worm, will I need to treat it or will it die off entirely (if that is what it is?)

[Marlin65]

Your SG is too low for Nems 1.023 min keep it at 1.025 is better.

[Salty_Hobby]

It's usually up around 1.023, I just did a water change and was a little off, after adjustment its now sitting at 1.0215-1.022, I'll be adjusting that over the next 24 hours now that I know 1.025 is better, Thank you!

[Marlin65]

76F is a bit low as well 79F is better and will stabilize your tank more.

[lucyw]

Your salinity seems low (should be 1.025)
What fish and corals do you have left so to figure out if they possibly can be treated.?
Maybe take a water sample to red coral and ask if they test water.
Hopefully someone more experienced chimes in.
Lucy

[bvlester]

If it is flat worm you can try and get as much of the white stuff out of the tank. Do a 20% water change to alleviate the water conditions. If it does not improve the out break at least it will give you more time to figure it out. Best thing you can do is move your fish to another tank all together. If the nem dying then there is little you can do to help it out, but you can help save your fish. Does the water smell? Nems smell really bad when they die really bad.

Take a sample of the white stuff to Red Coral they may know of a couple of tests that they can do 1 would be to put some on a slide and under a microscope. One can get a good idea for a slide as to what it is if you have contacts in a lab. They can match it up to pics of slides they have on file or one could try and contact a university and ask some there if they would like try and figure it out as a lab assignment. Marine bio Lab.

salinity should be between 1.023 -1.025
Temp should be no lower than 75 but should be at 78 or 79.
I keep mine at 78 but has droped the 76 for a few days when it gets realy cold in my basement, It all depends on the Nem that you have.
here is and artical on Nems.
http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/inverts/softcorals/anemones/anemones.htm
Bill

[Salty_Hobby]

It doesn't smell at all, and they are round "colonies" they don't look like worms... I have already done a 10% water change 7 days ago and a 20-25% water change 2 days ago, still have high ammonia!

I will definintely take in a water sample though and if ammonia levels aren't down in the am I bought a spare tank to switch everything over if needed. I think now I just have to wait for the "Stability" chemicals to kick in and reduce the ammonia... if not, I'm lost for a solution other than emptying and cleaning the problem tank

[Salty_Hobby]

Would over feeding Kent Marine Coral Accel cause all these problems? I thought I was on the cautious side only using it 2-3 times a week but I'm starting to question it now...

I have polyps and it was recommended to put this in my tank to help keep them healthy?

[Salty_Hobby]

I have 3 clown fish (2 spp), the green tip polyps, a cleaner shrimp, anemone, lawnmower blenney, 2 fire tail gobies I think they're called, hermit crabs (with the blue tip claws), a long spined urchin (he's not looking so good) and a yellow tang. I have about 10lbs of live rock in a 47US Gallon tank.

[xtreme]

Do you run a skimmer? Sounds like a fair size bio-load and not enough live rock for filtration.

[bvlester]

First if your water changes have not had any afect on the ammonia levels you test kit maybe bad. you should see a deffinit drop in the ammonia level exspecialy if you have done a 25% water change. you could do anouther 10% water change today and every 2-3 days till you find out what is happening. What snails do you have in your tank?
I am asking you this because I have white disk like snail eggs on my glass and rocks and they apear almost over night. I'll try and get a good pic of some and post in this thread. you also said that you have afilm on the water top this could be from the snails sponing and you have extra ditris that is being suspended in the water colume try and redirect your power head so it disterbs the water surfaces see if this helps to clear it up. I get this on my kids tank once in a while you can scoop as much of the floating stuff off the top.
If you have too many snails or there spon is dead it will rase your ammonia level.
don't panic go slow.

I'll check back in a while as I have to go get some shrimp and maybe my fish came in also.
Bill

[Salty_Hobby]

I have a skimmer fit for the size of tank and a filter on it, it was ok before with some die offs if I didn't do frequent enough water changes but I've been good about them lately.

The ammonia kit should be ok, I've done tests in the recent past that were zero for ammonia. I don't have any film on the water surface, just the glass and stuff inside the tank under the water. I don't have any snails, other than 2 tiny ones that came with the live rock way back in Feb.

I will keep up with the water changes every few days, the ammonia levels have come down but not by much :( I'm only panicked because I feel terrible I am killing my fish! :(

Thanks everyone, I will update in the morning with how the increase salinity, temp and Stability additive for ammonia works out.

[Funky_Fish14]

25% of 1ppm is still .75ppm = still rounds up to 1ppm. Test kits are not very accurate (when you really think about it), and I dont think the small water changes will be making much of a difference. I would try doing a 40-60% water change. 10% water changes wont really get you too far. As long as you let the fresh saltwater mix long enough(at least 12hrs) a 50% waterchange should be no problem. I know a guy who does a 50% waterchange on all of his salt tanks every 2 weeks and does not use a skimmer.

Good luck.

Chris

[Funky_Fish14]

To accentuate - Do much bigger water changes, and suck out as much of the 'white stuff' as possible.

Chris

[Funky_Fish14]

Also try not to swing your salinity too much during the waterchanges - this will stress out your fish/inverts alot, especially if it is an upward swing. Bring your temp up a tiny bit as mentioned.

Sorry for the triple post.

[Ian]

You need to invest in a good test kit, it is hard to diagnose problems without knowing all your parameters. Take a water sample in to one of the better SW stores and they will check parameters for you for now.
Until you know whats happening keep doing large water changes as often as possible to try and keep toxins from building up and if you are not doing it already get some carbon in running in your tank as well.
Thats all I can offer for now but I am sure some of the gurus on here can be of more assistance
Good Luck
Ian

[Red Coral Aquariums]

I have 3 clown fish (2 spp), the green tip polyps, a cleaner shrimp, anemone, lawnmower blenney, 2 fire tail gobies I think they're called, hermit crabs (with the blue tip claws), a long spined urchin (he's not looking so good) and a yellow tang. I have about 10lbs of live rock in a 47US Gallon tank.

So just to confirm from what I have been reading you have

7 fish
4 or 5 inverts not including snails
10 lbs live rock in a 47 gal.

I do have to agree with xtreme with his comment.

xtreme Do you run a skimmer? Sounds like a fair size bio-load and not enough live rock for filtration.

I initially suspected flatworms when you called me earlier today but from your pictures that is not the case or they are not anything I have encountered. Try and explain a little more about the white spots. Are they soft?. Do they come off the glass easy or are they stuck on firm? Do they squish and denigrate when you touch them? Do they move around? etc. Any info would help identify them.

Small frequent water changes are superior to larger water changes (you do not want to stress out everything more)
Run carbon
Set your skimmer up to run wet
Until you are certain what the problem is do not move your fish.
Bring in a water sample to the store and I will run some tests. ( a sample before a water change)
Call the store if you need some advice.

Kevin

[Marlin65]

Your yellow tang needs to go!!! Your tank is too small. I usually don't say that but a 48 is way too small for a yellow tang. Please find a better home for this fish unless you plan to upgrade??

[Funky_Fish14]

Small frequent water changes are superior to larger water changes (you do not want to stress out everything more)

Kevin;

I dont mean to directly dissagree, but in this case, with such high ammonia, a large water change is needed to bring it down. If you do the math it will take 7 water changes at 10% in size to achieve less than .5ppm ammonia (which is still high), while 1 50% waterchange will achieve .5ppm ammonia. (if someone wants to see the math I'll post it)

I only suggest a large water change to get the 'white crud' out, and eliminate the ammonia which I think in this case is a more severe matter than water change stress. Otherwise i would agree.

However, to the OP: Please do not read 'smaller frequent water changes' as 10% once a week, it means 10-25% every day to 3 days. 10% once a week will not make enough of a difference.

Cheers,

Chris

[bvlester]

I have a skimmer fit for the size of tank and a filter on it, it was ok before with some die offs if I didn't do frequent enough water changes but I've been good about them lately.

The ammonia kit should be ok, I've done tests in the recent past that were zero for ammonia. I don't have any film on the water surface, just the glass and stuff inside the tank under the water. I don't have any snails, other than 2 tiny ones that came with the live rock way back in Feb.

I will keep up with the water changes every few days, the ammonia levels have come down but not by much :( I'm only panicked because I feel terrible I am killing my fish! :(

Thanks everyone, I will update in the morning with how the increase salinity, temp and Stability additive for ammonia works out.

I took another look at the pics you posted and they look very similar to the white spots I have and the ones I have are snail eggs. Can you see from the out side of the glass is there a bit of yellow in the center of the disks on the glass if so they are eggs. If your white spots are eggs some maybe dieing off and that could give you a higher ammonia level. Hay everyone lets solve one problem at a time Bio load maybe on the demanding side of things but you have to take in to consideration the depth of the sand bed and how often he does water changes in the first place. And yes you can do a larger water change but not this often.

You have stated the ammoinia is droping with the water changes you have done alreadyand you have not done many water changes. With your bio load you should be doing water changes every 7 -10 days. I would get about 30 - 40 pounds more rock and sell 2-3 fish this will balance your tanks bio load out.
I still think the white spots maybe snail eggs, are they all about the same size and shape?
I have snail eggs every where, they hatch out and in a mounth or so there is a new batch on the glass and rocks and it only takes about 2 days for then to appier every where. As I said if they are not fertile they maybe decaying where they were layed, that will rase your ammionia


take your sample in and get the resualts and post them here.

Bill

[fishytime]

[QUOTE=bvlester;471374 Hay everyone lets solve one problem at a time Bio load maybe on the demanding side of things but you have to take in to consideration the depth of the sand bed and how often he does water changes in the first place.[/QUOTE]

10 pounds of LR simply does not have enough surface area to biologically filter out that many fish, no matter how deep the sand bed is....I would suspect this is your issue....the way I see it you have a couple options, 1) you could do 10-20% water changes every couple days to keep ammonia down, 2) you could (and probably should) pick up some more LR( if you do add it slowly...a couple pounds at a time), 3) reduce your bioload( I would start with the tang...shouldnt be in a tank that small)....in the meantime pick up a bottle of Prime, it can be used to reduce ammonia in an emergency and run carbon if you have the means....hope things turn around for you...

[Myka]

10 pounds of LR simply does not have enough surface area to biologically filter out that many fish, no matter how deep the sand bed is....I would suspect this is your issue....the way I see it you have a couple options, 1) you could do 10-20% water changes every couple days to keep ammonia down, 2) you could (and probably should) pick up some more LR( if you do add it slowly...a couple pounds at a time), 3) reduce your bioload( I would start with the tang...shouldnt be in a tank that small)....in the meantime pick up a bottle of Prime, it can be used to reduce ammonia in an emergency and run carbon if you have the means....hope things turn around for you...

I'm in agreement with Doug.

Personally, I have seen white slime/film appear when ammonia present in a tank. I think that is a direct result from the ammonia, and is a bacterial film. I wouldn't change the temperature or salinity at this point...neither are at a point of causing damage. If I was in your position I would follow these steps:

Find a new home for the tang asap.
1. Do a 50% waterchange today, with water that has been mixing for at least 6 hours (in emergency), and matches the temperature and salinity of your tank.

2. Use Prime to neutralize the remaining ammonia. Add the tank's full dose to the water change water.

3. Do a 25% water change tomorrow.

4. Buy 30 lbs of live rock, and put it into a Rubbermaid container with a powerhead and a heater and allow it to cycle in the tub for several weeks. After the cycle is over you can add it all to the tank without worry.

See where you're at after that.

[Salty_Hobby]

I will try and answer everyone's Q's here...

They are not snail eggs, I've seen those before and this doesn't look like them.

The white spots are small flat circles, adhering to the surfaces like my glass, thermometer and shelf. Unless I scrub the sides of the tank there is no white junk to siphon off (I don't know if I was clear but it is not free floating in or on the water surface)

Anyone have space to take my Tang? Obviously it would require isolation until we're all sure it's healthy.

I do run a skimmer and a filter (including carbon), my hermit crabs and snails are smaller than nickles so I don't want to give the wrong impression that I have lots of bioMASS, all my fish are relatively small except the tang.

I have been doing water changes twice a week of no more than 25% (as I didn't want to remove beneficial bacteria)

This is where I'm at now: this morning the ammonia levels were still causing my fish stress. I have relocated them for the time being, they should be ok in my reserve tank for now. I will buy more live rock, get a better testing kit and take in a water sample.

As for my Bio load, I think with more live rock the ammonia levels won't be an issue, however, I still don't know what this white junk is or how to get rid of it! So my last option unless anyone has any ideas about irradicating the white stuff... is to entirely clean out my big tank and establish it again (I'm not a big fan of this idea, putting my old live rock back in might reintroduce this white stuff and we're back to square one)

Please let me know if I missed anyones questions!

[bvlester]

Could it be a caliume buildup as in to much ca as your pic kind of looks like a ca buildup or even anouther scailing type of substance. get the test results they will tell you more than we can guess at. You should not have to tare your tank down and re do it, if it is something realy bad and needs a host it will die off it may take some time Ie velevet take 3 months I believe. I don't know if there is anything else that take that long. You see you have to kill any eggs that are in there also.

I don't think at this point that it is any thing that bad, it realy looks like scailing of some type even ammonia will cause scailing if it is from the ammonia then scrape and sphifon at the same time. Ammonia scail will keep your tank levels high, I was up late last night thinking about your problem.
I did take anouther look at the eggs in my tank and your pic, no not eggs looks more like how coriline algea dose when it starts but with no color to it.

See when your over tired and you are thinking about something you can be pulled back to your original thought and be wrong. Not eggs...

Bill

[Salty_Hobby]

Thank you for spending so much time thinking about this, I agree I think if I leave my tank for a while and add some live rock after that, things should settle out and help prevent this again!

[Funky_Fish14]

Just to let you know:

Doing a waterchange removes very little of the bacteria from the tank. 99% of the benefical bacteria lives on the surfaces within the aquarium, and not within the water column, so taking lots of water out wont remove much.

I agree with Myka's post.

Cheers,

Chris

[bvlester]

he is talking about taring down his tank and scrubbing it and then refilling it. I think it is not nessasary to do this. If the white stuff is ammonia scaling then all he needs to do is siphon the scale as he scrapes it off the wall. ammonia scape will draw in ammonia as it is prodused and release it slowly you can do all the water changes you want and it will not do much to corect the problem phisical removel of the scale is best option. But lets see what the tests come back as. A CA scale will also absorb ammonia and release it in to the tank.

by the way a massive water change can shock the fish faster than finding the cure of the problem and resulving it. He is running carbon and a protien skimmer. treat 1 thing at a time and you can help to do that by doing smaller water changes, and he has moved his fish from the problem tank which also gives him more time and yes he can now do a larger water change.after he does a good cleaning of the tank glass and sand bed vacume the sand bed realy well. Now is the time to do it while the fish are out of the tank.
Bill

[Salty_Hobby]

Sounds like we're mostly all on the same page, I think I have a game plan for now

Thanks everyone!
Erika

[Funky_Fish14]

by the way a massive water change can shock the fish faster than finding the cure of the problem and resulving it.

Nobody said do one right now... and 50% is not massive. I know many people that do this on their tanks without issue, one who STILL does it regularly on two tanks after 5 years.

And you are missing the fact that the ammonia was terribly high. I dont care how much stress the fish gets from a 50% water change... constantly high ammonia WILL kill fish.



---------------

Keep working at it Salty Hobby!

Cheers,

Chris

[Salty_Hobby]

New update!

My fish are in my 10gallon reserve tank for now and doing well, they all look much healthier and energetic, evern the anemone is coming back!! The only thing that hasn't shown improvement are the polyps.

I think I am going to down size and keep the ten gallon instead. At least then I will have enough live rock for the volume and a skimmer that's is way more than enough to keep it clean!

Two things: I will definitely need a home for the Tang if I'm keeping the 10 Gallon instead. Second, I may have a 47 Gallon for sale soon, I will post both accordingly unless someone here mentions they're interested! I will make sure the large tank is clean prior to selling of course. Whoever wants the Tang will have to isolate it to be sure this doesn't happen to them!

Thanks all!

Erika

[bvlester]

YOu may want to use the 47g and still sell the tank as they should be in a min 100g tank but one can get away with a 90g tank, Nems put out alot of waist so you may want the 47g any way. did you get the 47g from a store or used? Just wondering because if it was used the problem could be with the tank its self and you may want to resilicone the tank and use it. I only say this because you say every thing is starting to bounce back quickly. So there maybe something leaching out of the silicone in the 47g, I would only suspect this if the tank was a used tank. I find that some fish are way more suseptible to water changes than others. Your polups should come back but may take a bit longer. they could be the problem did you give everi thing dips before putting them into the temp tank?
Bill

[Myka]

I do run a skimmer and a filter (including carbon), my hermit crabs and snails are smaller than nickles so I don't want to give the wrong impression that I have lots of bioMASS, all my fish are relatively small except the tang.

I have been doing water changes twice a week of no more than 25% (as I didn't want to remove beneficial bacteria)

What type of skimmer are you using? What type of filter? How often do you change the media and carbon?

Considering you only have 10 lbs of live rock, and good quality live rock is a better filter than most protein skimmers can claim your bioload IS fairly significant. Don't fool yourself.

FYI, you won't remove any significant amount of bacteria doing water changes. The beneficial bacteria mostly colonize the live rock and sand. You could (in theory) do a 100% water change, and not remove any significant amount of nitrifying bacteria.