Too aggressive with Zeolites - the result

[Myka]

So this is what happens when you slam your tank with Zeolites (a very aggressive phosphate and nitrate reducer) and shock your corals. The 0.8 liters of Zeolites have been in my sump running passively in a bag in a low flow area since Nov 14 (my dog's bday aw), so exactly 2 weeks. I'm going to go ahead and pull the Zeolites. I am getting really close to losing a few of my brain corals. When the corals have recovered I will see into reintroducing a decreased amount of Zeolites in a reactor with controlled low flow, and slowly work up from there.

Here are some comparative photos of the corals in their prime, and then today.

Favia in its prime:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/July1220093.jpg



Favia today:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Nov2820098.jpg



Symphyllia in its prime:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/IMG_1025.jpg



Symphyllia today:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Nov2820099.jpg



Lobophyllia in its prime:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/June2220092.jpg



Lobophyllia today:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Nov282009.jpg



Trachyphyllia in its prime:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/July52009.jpg



Trachyphyllia today:http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/Nov2820097.jpg

[Dez]

Mindy,

My Trachyphyllia looks exactly the same - all shriveled (like a man's anatomy in cold water). However, it is a new addition and the first couple of days it was all puffy and nice like your before picture. I have the same coloured one as you. I have been on the zeovit system for one month now with 2 liters of zeolites in a reactor. Every single other coral is doing phenomenal though. I have hammers and frogspawns and candy corals and a flower pot in terms of lps and a bunch of sps. You think it's the zeolites that did it? Maybe it's the brain/acan family that doesn't like it. How are your other lps corals? Thanks in advance.

Desmond

[Myka]

Hi Desmond, yes I believe this is the result of using too many Zeolites in too high of flow which has caused the nutrients to get sucked out way too fast, and shocked the LPS. My issues have been discussed quite thoroughly for the last two weeks on the Zeovit forums. The SPS look better than ever. Other affected corals are Duncan and Acans. Ime, LPS enjoy some nutrients in the water. I have heard of other people with these troubles when first introducing Zeolites to the tank. There are lots of people that do keep LPS in Zeovit tanks though, but I do worry that any newly introduced LPS may suffer from the pristine conditions sicne most suppliers don't have pristine tanks.

[megs_clark]

Aw thats to bad. I love love love your pink Lobophyllia. The color is amazing, or was amazing. Will it regain all its color and heal up? It sounds like its pritty easy to overdose when using the zeolite stuff. I hope it all recovers :O)

[Delphinus]

That's interesting, and I'm very sorry to hear of this. It's a mixed blessings sort of bag though because I was worried it could also have been your filefish, so I'm sort of relieved to hear it's likely not him, but yet, it doesn't change the fact that the corals are distressed. So I wonder what the trick is with LPS especially now at this given point. To suspend zeo at this point likely solves nothing, perhaps the answer lies in a severe reduction of the zeolites and additives, ie., perhaps down to 20-25% of the recommended amounts/volumes for your given volume ?? :neutral:

Hope you figure it out. And sorry for your LPS too there Des. :( FWIW when I ran zeovit, my LPS never really reacted like this, although at the time, I had a CBB who enjoyed nibbling on things like Acan's .. I was never able to keep too many things because of that anyhow. If memory servers, I had candycane (both green and pink) and Euphyllia.

[naesco]

Myka just looking at the coral before your zeolite problem.
Why did you bother going the zeolite program.
Your corals looked great!

[Zoaelite]

Ya wow that first favia is amazing Myka! I have never run a zeo reactor and my LPS seem to do fairly well, you might stress the coral out by stopping all together though. Hope everything comes back for you.

[shrimpchips]

Myka, have you tried larger water changes/more frequent?

I went through a phase where I did very few/no WCs for about 8 weeks - nutrients were near zero, and SPS colour/growth were great, but the LPS didn't open as much. Kicked up the WCs to 20% a week, and now everything is nice and puffy.

[d-crazy]

This is my first time on here!!! not quite shure how it works yet.Moving to Kamloops from Vernon, going to be taking down and re-setting up my 40 gallon cube.

In regards to the thread, would the high levels of phosphates/nitrates that you wer originally trying to remove not be the cause of your corals demise? and you are just seeing the result later on, and then eventually they will heal up wen the levels of phos/nitr are removed? Its not like the levels suddenly dropped over night right? how long had you had the corals for, last water change??
Darin.

[Myka]

Thanks for all the condolences guys! I think the corals are still savable, which is why I'm calling it quits at this point because I think a few more days and it will be at the point of no return.

In regards to Darin's question (welcome to the board btw!!), my phosphate and nitrate were both undetectable using Salifert and Elos kits before the introduction of the Zeolites. I didn't check phosphate with a D-D kit beforehand though, so I'm not sure what the actual level was. The Zeovit system is designed with SPS in mind mainly, and is to produce an ultra low nutrient system for incredible SPS coloration. The system is actually quite remarkable.

Thanks for your comment Naesco (and everyone else who remarked about the nice corals). My LPS were all doing very well before going to the full Zeo system. I used Coral Vitalizer and Sponge Power for about 6 months before starting to get further into the Zeovit system. The LPS responded very well to these additives. I wanted to start using the full Zeovit system as my SPS had decent color, but not SHEZAM!! So I am attempting to get better coloration via Zeovit by lowering nitrate and phosphate to "near zero", which is much lower than Salifert or Elos kits can detect.

For those asking about the corals' future...I believe they are still savable at this point provided I can figure out how to reduce their stress without creating more in the process! I have put up some new questions regarding this to the Zeovit forums, so hopefully I will have an answer. I think either removing or reducing the amount of the Zeolites should do the trick.

As far as the rest of the Zeovit additives go in regards to Delphinus' question about adjusting dosing... I have increased dosing of Coral Vitalizer, Xtra, and Sponge Power in hopes to provide the LPS with enough food to recover. I have suspended dosing of Bak, and have stopped kneading the Zeolites and carbon twice daily in hopes of slowing down the nutrient export. Although I continue to dose Start to feed the existing bacteria.

I have been doing 12% weekly water changes, and have started to watch my calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium closer with daily dosings. SPS growth is exploding since the addition of the Zeolites even though some colonies have browned a bit, and some colonies have really increased color.

I really didn't realise the scope of the effects of the Zeolites. I under estimated them. I figured I would post this to warn others to be careful. :)

[bowkry]

I started zeo 8 weeks ago and I removed some of my things (sun coral and some other) but my other lps (frogspawn favia trupet and a bunch other) are doing great. But I also ran my reactor 3h on 3h off for the first 3 weeks at low flow so not to shock my corals. And WOW I now have some corals that look like the ones I used to drool over online. You prob. hit it way way to hard.

[Myka]

I have a bunch of Euphyllia, they are all doing well. Even a Palau Nepthea is doing really well as with a photosynthetic gorgonian. Ricordea, Cyphastrea, clams, Galaxea, GSP, Trumpet, they are all doing well too. The only ones affected are 5 out of 7 brain corals, the Duncan, and the Acans (only one frag).

I think it was a mistake to add the Zeolites without a reactor to monitor the actual flow (instead of guessing with the passive flow). When I try to reintroduce the Zeolites I will start with a smaller amount, do the 3 hours on 3 off cycle, and I will wait until my reactor is built. I don't foresee any issues with a more conservative approach. I really under estimated the power of the Zeolites. :eek:

[mr.wilson]

I don't see any signs of tissue necrosis or infection of any sort in the photos. Your corals are healthy. They just aren't opening to feed due to the lack of nutrients in the water. SPS and LPS aren't usually found together in nature due to their varying requirements. In other words, you can't please all of the corals all of the time. If you feed the tank phytoplankton it will promote the growth of microfauna that will in turn feed your corals. Bioavailable nutrients will get your corals to open again. Target feeding will speed things along.

The favia lost some of its zooxanthellae by the looks of it. This doesn't fit with a low nutrient problem. It is however something that is caused by other Zeovit products that bleach corals for better colours. I'm not too familiar with their product line, so I'm not sure which ones nave this effect, but zeovit media is not one of them. What else are you putting in the tank?

[Myka]

There is some tissue necrosis starting now Wilson. The Zeovit "pros" on the Zeovit forums have come to the conclusion that the corals have been shocked by nutrients being taken out too quick, as well as several other people commenting that their LPS have reacted the same way when Zeolites were introduced. So I am definitely believing this right now.

I know a mixed reef is a difficult thing to obtain. I never meant for SPS to get in this tank...don't know how they got there. :lol:

I have never been much of a fan of phytoplankton, always found it raised phosphate. Although it do notice it increases pods. My Assessor would like that...she eats ALL the pods.

I know there is food in the tank, I have diatoms and a small amount of cyano due to increasing the food type Zeo additives.

The tank is dosed with calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, Zeovit food additives (Coral Vitalizer, Sponge Power, Xtra), Zeovit Coral Snow (so-called biological facilitator), ZeoStart (bacteria food). The tank has Kent carbon, and the Zeolites in the sump, both are passively run.

The Zeoheads recommended I quit dosing Zeobac (bacteria), but to continue with the Start to feed the current bacteria. At one point they told me to stop dosing Coral Snow as it can be aggressive too, but now they told me I could start again. Maybe I should stop...I dunno.

The Zeo product that bleaches the corals is Spur2. I have used this a few times with great results. It affected most SPS (within 48 hours of dosing), but didn't seem to affect any LPS at all. My LPS issues didn't happen anywhere near the dosing of the Spur2. I haven't dosed Spur2 since Oct 18. The Favia started showing signs of trouble on Nov 17, the Symphyllia didn't show signs of distress until Nov 24.

I feel like ripping the Zeolites out and tossing them across the room.

[StirCrazy]

I feel like ripping the Zeolites out and tossing them across the room.

I think I would have already. :neutral:

that realy sucks, but LPS are pretty resiliant so they should bounce back.

Steve

[mr.wilson]

There is some tissue necrosis starting now Wilson. The Zeovit "pros" on the Zeovit forums have come to the conclusion that the corals have been shocked by nutrients being taken out too quick, as well as several other people commenting that their LPS have reacted the same way when Zeolites were introduced. So I am definitely believing this right now.

I know a mixed reef is a difficult thing to obtain. I never meant for SPS to get in this tank...don't know how they got there. :lol:

I have never been much of a fan of phytoplankton, always found it raised phosphate. Although it do notice it increases pods. My Assessor would like that...she eats ALL the pods.

I know there is food in the tank, I have diatoms and a small amount of cyano due to increasing the food type Zeo additives.

The tank is dosed with calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, Zeovit food additives (Coral Vitalizer, Sponge Power, Xtra), Zeovit Coral Snow (so-called biological facilitator), ZeoStart (bacteria food). The tank has Kent carbon, and the Zeolites in the sump, both are passively run.

The Zeoheads recommended I quit dosing Zeobac (bacteria), but to continue with the Start to feed the current bacteria. At one point they told me to stop dosing Coral Snow as it can be aggressive too, but now they told me I could start again. Maybe I should stop...I dunno.

The Zeo product that bleaches the corals is Spur2. I have used this a few times with great results. It affected most SPS (within 48 hours of dosing), but didn't seem to affect any LPS at all. My LPS issues didn't happen anywhere near the dosing of the Spur2. I haven't dosed Spur2 since Oct 18. The Favia started showing signs of trouble on Nov 17, the Symphyllia didn't show signs of distress until Nov 24.

I feel like ripping the Zeolites out and tossing them across the room.

Change isn't always a good thing for a reef, especially sudden ones. I would take out the zeovit media. The absence of bioavailable phosphate and nitrate should slowly starve the corals, not shock them, but I'm certainly no zeovit expert. Zeovit absorbs more than just nutrients so it might be these missing elements that are causing their demise.

[lobsterboy]

i might have missed this, but have you tried the amino acid for LPS. they sugguest you use this when starting your zeo system as it allows for some xtra foods to be the water coloum.

[naesco]

Still missing something, Myka.
If the beautify coral pictures were taken before you started the zeo thing, why did you decide to try the zeo route. Was it just a matter of trying something new?
It appears there have been some successes but a lot of failures too and I understand the zeo are very expensive. Is that true?

[Myka]

And the plot thickens...

~ End of July buy new Salifert calcium test kit, and notice new kit is reading just about 100 ppm higher than the old kit. Old kit was expired, so I assume the new one is closer to accurate. At this point, calcium is reading 520 ppm on the new kit.

~ Mid-August have calcium lowered to 420 ppm with new kit.

~ Yesterday I get my water tested at the LFS with an Elos kit. This is an older Elos kit with only 50 ppm increments. The color change is slight at 300 ppm, and very clear at 350 ppm, so it is likely around 325 ppm with the Elos kit. My Salifert calcium kit reads 420 ppm using the same water.

~ Today I remember that my old Salifert kit read 100 ppm lower than my new one. So...I'm starting to think my new Salifert kit really is reading 100 ppm higher than my actual calcium reading which means my calcium may be as low as 320 ppm since mid-August.

I am going to email the batch number into Salifert and find out if there are any complaints.

----------------------------------------

Naesco, I started using a few of the Zeo additives last March (CV and SP). I saw really amazing results. I recently started collecting many SPS and the colors are good, but not great, so I figured why not try out the complete Zeo system? Zeo is expensive to startup, cheap to maintain. So far, the only "additive" I have had any trouble with is the Zeolites. The rest as really quite impressive. The Zeolites are impressive too...but in a different way right now!! :lol:

Lobsterboy, I haven't tried the AALPS. Mostly because I'm feeling a budget cramp with Christmas coming on and having to pay someone to look after my dog and tank for 2 weeks. I will go today, and pick up a bottle. *sigh*

Mr Wilson, I was waiting for a definite response from the Zeoheads to confirm that removing the Zeolites won't further increase stress on the corals, but I'm going to go ahead and remove the Zeolites right now.

[lobsterboy]

thats cool, the bottle will go along way with helping those corals out.

they are just hungry, :razz:

and what about removing half of the zeolites now and then half later...? its just a thought if you havent done it already.

[lobsterboy]

i guess i am out of the loop abit, i just checked the date on your post.

anyways, so what happened? hows things doing?

[Jason McK]

Myka,
The Zeoheads will tell you to slowly remove the zeolith over time. When I quite Zeovit after 3 years I just yanked the Zeolites out and never looked back. Can't say I saw any adverse effects to my corals

Good luck, Sorry to here of your troubles

J

[fencer]

So you are not using any part of zeo?

[Jason McK]

I currently am Zeo-Free. I am using Brightwell Koralcolour and Potassion and that's it

J