75 gal Holy crap what have I done? Errr, make that 90gal.

[Beza]

So apparently in a moment of weakness it seems I have created a new monster...

I thought I would be a great guy and buy my girlfriend a giant aquarium for christmas, so last week I surfed kijiji and came up with a 75 gal 4’x18"x20” freshwater tank for 350 bucks. I had never had a tank this big before, although I grew a couple of giant freshwater lionhead orandas that lived for over 13 years and earned several degrees and diplomas with me. Yet a tank that size seemed like a great start for what I hoped would be a nice little salt water setup eventually, and the price seemed right.

So I arrived at the guy's house, and there sitting before me was a nice looking tank with 11 various cichlids, including what was apparently a mating pair of T. brichardi, and of course a token pleco. All I wanted was the tank, so I asked if getting rid of the fish was possible, which ultimately wasn't. I asked the guy if he would take 325, and when he accepted I promised to pick it up the next day...

Obviously it turned out the guy was waaaaay too nice, and by the end of that second day he had helped me load the bastard of a heavy tank into my truck, along with a brand new filstar filter, and various accoutrements associated with the freshwater fish hobby.

So I got the thing home, along with all the water from the tank packed neatly into pre-washed rubbermaids that promptly spilled all over myself, the truck, and the house, before being dumped back into the tank itself. I traditionally have this thing where whenever I go flyfishing I will fall into whatever body of water I am attending and develop a rapport with the fish I seek... obviously this curse extends to hobby aquaculture as well. Once the water was in, I set up a bunch of caves and interesting structure (I know trout like structure, so why wouldn't cichlids?) with the plethora of tank litter I had been given, and then introduced the picean travellers to the dawning of the age of a new aquarium... location. I can only assume this is a common joke in the fish community.

After fiddling with the filter for a bit and finding a powerbar to hook everything up to, the system was set up, minus things like food and pH thingies, or fungus and bacteria treatments. I could buy that the next day. The fish seemed happy, especially what appeared to be a nice big C. moorei. Only the brichardi were really shy - they had already found a nice hole in some driftwood that I hadn't even noticed until I spied one poking its head out and then ducking back in when it somehow became alerted to my voyeurism.

The next day I made an enlightening trip to Big Al's (not the big gay boatride from southpark), where I was made to look like a foolish child with a patient fish nerd/ninja as my teacher. I found out a few things, dropped some more cash on a powerhead and some food, narrowly avoided buying yet more fish-cave thingies for around 40 bucks, and headed home again.

After gleefully tearing apart the powerhead box and setting it up, I noticed a box in the corner, along with a plastic bag. Inside the bag was yet another slightly used power filter, and in the box sat more food and chemical treatment than I would need for several months. It's funny how dragging craploads of water up and down stairs can make you forget that you have the stuff you need already, or that the guy handed you several extra boxes of fish food.

...So that is where I now sit, with enough FW crap to tide me over until I can figure out how to afford what will apparently be thousands of dollars for a sweet FOWLR setup. The cichlids appear to be easy to maintain, and immediate plans include building a 3' high stand so I can begin preparation for setting up some sort of sump thingy. In the distant past I apprenticed as a plumber, so I am confident I can pull this off magnificently, although educating myself as to what the hell I am getting into is still ongoing. For the time being, my sweetie will be getting a FW setup after talking to the Big Al's staff, and having them do up a quote for switching the system to FOWLR. The price, along with subsequent defecation in my pants and uncontrollable obscenities flying from my lips were enough to crush my hopes and dreams for the time being.

SO in closing, I would appreciate any help, especially in the form of a list of things to purchase to build up proper equipment for a 75 gal FOWLR tank that 2 animal nerds could live happily ever after maintaining. I can post some pics of the project as it unfolds, particularly whatever crazy stand I decide to build in the meantime.

till then, cheers!

[Dez]

Welcome to Canreef.

It really doesn't have to be as complicated as you think. Big Al's is quite pricey for everything. Look out for used stuff on here. You can pick some quite cheap live rock for $4 - 5/lb on here. Check out Marine Aquaria in Edmonton (you can look them up on here - one of the sponsors). Often times they'll have cheap live rock even $3/lb from their client tear downs.

Ask lots of questions. Start simple. Simple live rock and lots of flow will do for a FOWLR tank.

Hope this helps for now.

[Bloodasp]

Yeah, I was about to say. I regret buying stuff from big al's cause when I started checking local fish stores a lot of them sell things cheaper. I use big al's as a sort of a library now, browse through their catalogue and look for those stuff somewhere else.

[Keri]

Congrats!!

I predict you're going to like your cichlids a lot - end up keeping them and then starting ANOTHER tank for FOWLR! lol
Cichlids are pretty personable fish, interesting to watch and brightly coloured.

Pics???

[Myka]

LOL great story!!

[fishytime]

Welcome to Canreef.

It really doesn't have to be as complicated as you think. Big Al's is quite pricey for everything. Look out for used stuff on here. You can pick some quite cheap live rock for $4 - 5/lb on here. Check out Marine Aquaria in Edmonton (you can look them up on here - one of the sponsors). Often times they'll have cheap live rock even $3/lb from their client tear downs.

Ask lots of questions. Start simple. Simple live rock and lots of flow will do for a FOWLR tank.

Hope this helps for now.

Welcome to the dark side of fishkeeping:lol:.....

I agree with Dez, except for one thing .....ask your questions here:biggrin:

[Beza]

Thanks for the comments guys!

I will be posting pics as soon as I can grab my camera back from work (it's waterproof too, so there may be some interesting experiments!). I would love to have someone ID the fauna for me, or at least point me in the right direction for cichlid species keys on the net, so that I could make up little lame plaques with spp. names on them! Yeah, that's right - I just finished up a degree in environmental science, so I am a latin nerd still... hope I don't embarrass myself too much!

Oh, and yes... I am starting to remember how much I friggin love fish! Four days back in and I'm already thinking of another tank! Sigh. The reason is that I am starting to doubt I could take care of an empty tank for 6 months just to start growing rock, ha ha. I suppose I'll just focus on building the stand for the time being.

Other things on day 4 that are beginning to occur to me include a short list of what I want to find:

- more power heads! I need more of these, right? The more current in the upper strata of the tank, the better? Does a 75 gal even have enough volume to have upper strata? I am pretty sure I just made this whole strata thing up.

-I must begin to find another smaller tank to use for something that sounds like it might be called a berlin reservoir filter system, right?

- Obviously I need to set up a cool pump system... oooooh I can't wait! Why the hell did I throw out that wicked 1 1/2" pool jetpump I refurbished years ago?

- Definitely some sort of digital water testing system that can show me interesting things like salinity, tds, and whether or not I am pregnant.

- Lights. Damn you, expensive lights!

- a skimmer... I see these things used everywhere... should I be throwing one on my tank before it is salt water?


Anything else I am obviously unaware of, aside from my blatant status as yet another excited newb?

[Beza]

Uh oh, I also just thought of something else that might be cool... what about some sort of timed electrical system, so I could run things like lights on the sump or regular tank in opposite cycles (yes, it is quite obvious I am reading Myka's newb guide). What about midnight laser shows with giant inflatable pigs or devils that activate to the music of the artist formerly known as Peter Frampton?

Hmm... my excited dreaming usually offsets my laziness, and I end up somewhere in the middle, between doing nothing at all and creating some sort of magnificent golden calf for people to worship. So excuse my deliriousness.

[no_bs]

Well you sound like your on the right track, getting your first tank. Keep up on Myka's guide. Research the threads, you should be used to that. Think of this as another degree. Good luck, and keep us posted.

[Beza]

I am going to try to post some pics I took with this weird camera I have, of the tank, just to show you guys that it is a plain old boring 4' jobbie. Hopefully I can post some rough drawings of the stand plans this week for random internet approval.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_331826485522_628420522_9993316_2148237_n.jpg
Here it is! Hidden in the storage room away from the prying eyes of my female life control system! Perhaps this christmas gift will somehow diminish her random female anger...

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_331826450522_628420522_9993314_3230282_n.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_331826455522_628420522_9993315_6254059_n.jpg

I felt like a jerk using the flash like that... I'm sure they're ****ed with me now.

Also I have no clue whether or not that worked... I suck at this.

[Beza]

SO things have taken a turn for the worse with this project...

By "turn for the worse", I of course mean "turn towards the expensive".

I am now undertaking a deal to obtain a 90 gal reef tank from some really friendly people! The bad side of this is that I paid for a 75gal freshwater tank, complete with cichlids, which I probably won't use! The tank just sits there, mocking me. The cichlids seem concerned, but not overly. I'm pretty sure that they realize that whatever happens, they'll be fine.

But back to the SW dreams...

In recent news, I obtained what apparently is a fairly decent, albeit overdone, skimmer. This thing came complete with some loc-line, and a PCX-40 pump. The random guy down at Big Al's tells me that it is a Beckett-style skimmer. To this, my reply was "Ok. Huh? Duh. Seems scientific enough."

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_363029630522_628420522_10275746_367611_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs071.snc3/13867_363029705522_628420522_10275748_3393697_n.jp g

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs071.snc3/13867_363029735522_628420522_10275749_5833340_n.jp g

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_363029675522_628420522_10275747_3139137_n.jp g

Any info on this stuff, or even tips on rigging it up, would be appreciated. I used to be a plumber, so at least I know that fish-**** rolls downhill, and payday for everyone else is anytime I walk into a reef store.

Oh, and here is what I am getting (sorry, I took these with my cellphone):

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs071.snc3/13867_362230000522_628420522_10269872_4327501_n.jp g

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_362230025522_628420522_10269875_7362656_n.jp g

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs051.snc3/13867_362229350522_628420522_10269860_7440848_n.jp g

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs071.snc3/13867_362230005522_628420522_10269873_5992481_n.jp g

Hopefully I can do it justice. Plans right now include getting rid of everything in the 75 gal, including the stand, then using it as a sump with perhaps a partition for a refugium or isolation tank. The 90 gal looks amazing and I can't wait to get my hands on it, but I need to have everything else set up, and the owners are nice enough to wait for me... how awesome is that?

Any thoughts? I'd love some suggestions. Especially as far as looping everything through that pump, if it was possible (except the isolation tank, of course).

[rjengen]

Just went through your first post...I'm entertained now...lol. I have several fresh tanks and love them all, and I've just started into the dark world of salt. Little tip from the noob...stalk this place like it was your super hot x-girlfriend (minus the going phyco hijinx of course) If you look in this section (The journal) you will see lot's of post from noob sauces like ourselves that are just staring out...with lot's of questions and answers. Your off to a good start though. Check the thread I have going...there's some info and a closed loop that I'm doing...still waiting for santa to bring me the final pieces though :razz:

[Beza]

So thought I'd mention a great tip for all you others out there who may have what you *think* is more general knowledge about the world than the average bear...

Calm down before you do ANYTHING and READ more about it! Ha ha ha.

Case in point:

I figured I'd start with the design of the 90gal I'm getting. Already traded the cichlids for 2 pumps, danners, 1200 and 1800. 75gal which I will use as a sump is all cleaned and ready for bastardization...

Moving the 90 is going to be a beyatch, so I thought I would begin my experimenting early by running a temp system in the 75, just to see how all the plumbing and everything performs. Plan is to move all the stuff from the 90 into a functioning environment in the 75, then transfer it back after everything is at my place.

As of right now, I have 3 pumps total, one will be used for CL, and the other will be used to run that massive beast of a skimmer I picked up (bullet 2). I am aiming at around 800-900gph on the CL, and I haven't decided if I will run the bullet with the danner 1800 or the pcx-40.

So of course I decide that I should waste like 50 bucks and build a temporary CL system for the 75, complete with 4 weird loc-line head thingies. This way I can run the skimmer and everything to see how well things perform. I can practice my chemistry on a plain old boring piece of water, too.

After getting my nose into a bit of reading that seems to preach on the benefits of variable flows and things like that, I look into getting a wave-maker or something expensive sounding. Research leads me to find that wavemakers actually ARE expensive... great. So the inventive wheels in my head start grinding. Slowly. What I come up with is that I should use a sprinkler controller, and maybe sprinkler valve systems with all those neat little solenoids.

What I find is that solenoids will NOT work. They all open directly to the water supply, as far as I can tell, and they all appear to be made of a plain old bi-metal disk that will of course explode into rust if I even mention saltwater in the general area.

So Shawn holds up a sprinkler itself, and peers at it in the light... slowly remembering his time as a valve technician, in addition to the job when he was younger as a golf course sprinkler mechanic. Then it hits: the idea. Of course those damn sprinklers run on water pressure, leeching a bit of the flow to turn that crap little mechanism that turns the head slowly... why not make something that uses all that pump flow that I so obviously will be wasting?

So I visit my dad that weekend, and tell him about my plan with subtle hints that he should lend me a copy of masterCAM so I can make a file that his machines can mill me the perfect sprinkler drive. I am rewarded for my efforts with a polite "no", and 2 old sprinkler heads that don't work.

After days of intensive research & development, I happen to be trolling the internet for any pvc valves I can find, when suddenly I come upon something called an SCWD... for 30 bucks. Oddly enough, it does exactly what the thing that I had designed does, albeit at a greater loss of flow, and with a lot less style - but it works.

So I throw away the sprinkler heads, and grab the SCWD from A.I.

...a bit of reading could have saved me this trouble. Why the hell didn't I look for some newb tank-building site?

I'll put some more pics up soon.

[mark]

Just a comment if still planning FOWLR, skip the expensive light and don't bother with the CL.

Planning on keeping with the softies in the picture again lights and flow not all that critical (compared to SPS).

and take your own advice "Calm down before you do ANYTHING and READ more about it!"

[Beza]

Here's what I came up with using google sketchup for design ideas:

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs131.snc3/17853_432283840522_628420522_10896940_133106_n.jpg

Basically it just shows the 75gal which will be used as a sump shoved into the bottom part of the stand to make sure it will fit. I am still in the dev stage, figuring out materials needed, sizing, etc.

I may be increasing bracing as well, I'm not sure if this setup with 2x4s will be sturdy enough. I may also switch to 2x6s or 8s for the vertical pieces. Other considerations will be disassembly because I don't plan on living where I am now for very much longer (anyone selling a house? lol). It has to be pretty high because of my damn giant skimmer, ha ha.

I would appreciate any ideas or input. The main tank will be a 90gal FOWLR.

[Beza]

Here's what I've come up with. I think I want a nice big fuge to grow pods and whatever else may strike my fancy...

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17853_432895385522_628420522_10902205_6743296_n.jp g

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17853_432895390522_628420522_10902206_809122_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17853_432895400522_628420522_10902207_2678464_n.jp g

Ok so I spent like 6 hours working on plans today! Time to go actually do something a little less time consuming, and maybe a little less fun...

Also considering getting rid of my GenX PCX40 and buying a bigger submersible for the return... I don't want to drill 3/4" glass just to put an external which will take up more room. I wonder if the 1200 could run the skimmer, and maybe use the 1800 for the return? Hmmmmm.

[Beza]

Went out today and bought a bunch of scraps of plexiglass and acrylic off a local shop. I tried doing the old score and snap thing, but unfortunately my workspace is a computer room right now, so I totally sucked at it. I need to go out and grab a bunch of woodworking clamps.

I'm also beginning to wonder if having flow go BELOW the refugium might be a bad idea.

Has anyone else built a sump like this? I was hoping to have a high flow rate as well as reducing microbubbles, so I made the fuge elevated and had DT return flow whipping underneath.

Lol. It's back to work tomorrow, so I get to second guess myself for another week or so... I think I'll put this on hold again. Sigh. I want to be really sure of what I'm creating before I actually start slapping baffles in.

[Chase31]

this is the first time i'v ever seen a sump like that :P mind you i went baffleless in my sump

[new but handy]

That's almost exactly how I built my sump. I t'ed off my drain into my fuge so I could adjust the flow. Then The excess and the other drain go into my sump. Makes the fuge nice and gentle with good flow through my sump. Make sure the bottem of the fuge slopes up in the direction of water flow or else a lot off air will get caught under it

[new but handy]

I lied
I put my baffles on the other side of my fuge, just before my return.
how are you feeding your fuge?

[Beza]

Ok, so I built my stand. It is a BEAST! I am starting to wonder if my weight for everything once it's done might be too much for a second floor... anyone have any thoughts on this? lol.

I'll put some pics up, but all you're going to see is once massive stand that could probably hold a tank with a footprint of 25"x48" that could weigh as much as a dumptruck. What the hell was I thinking? Ha ha. Anyways I put the 75gal underneath and it fits fine, so I have nothing left to do but commit to ruining it with a bunch of weird baffles and crap, then actually trial run it.

So I just put in the first 2 pieces of acrylic which will hold up the skimmer. Apparently I will wait for them to dry and complete the sump from left to right, so I can adjust sizing as I go if needed.

I'm still not sure what to do with the open spot I'll have under the skimmer. I suppose I could put some LR down there to break up the bubbles too. Why am I so obsessed with bubbles before even having to deal with them?

Pics soon once I find my camera cord.

[Miso]

Looking good so far.

If you're living in an apartment, I would check before you slap the 90gallon on the 75 gallon sump with the "beast" stand.

I would guess the total weight would be at least 1500 pounds when you have everything in; and that might be too much over 4 feet.

[Beza]

Hmmm... I came up with yet more interesting things just now...

If anyone is interested in learning about floor strength and concepts, check this out: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/aquarium_weight.php

Here's a good link for starting on aquarium weights (just water, rock is more obviously): http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/aquariumsandstands/a/tanksizesweights.htm

Then I went down and checked the floor joists in this place and holy crap was I shocked. Where I assumed would be 2x8's or 12's were these CRAP weird 2x3" truss things... not even the plywood stuff I had seen in some newer places. To top it off, they were at like 18" spacers. WTF. I am sick of all the ways builders screw people over now! No wonder the bookshelves in one room are making another room have a creaky floor!

Looks like I have to rethink the tank location until I can be sure of what those crap looking trusses have for load bearing. Sheesh. Or I could speed up the whole mortgage thing and just get a new house already. Yet another kink in the whole plan.

[bvlester]

you just have to reinforce the joists measure the truss things from floor to the bottom then buy some 2x what ever the hight is and laminate on both sides of truss things. But remember truss structures are stronger than a single 2x8 would be they are designed to bear weight out word to the supporting ends. you may want to look into things a bit more you can probably do it with no troubles but check first, you may want to go to a 30g sump which is enough for a 90g.

Bill