Boiling carbon?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I once heard from someone to boil carbon in RO water to get the phosphates out. Mostly for the not so pure brands. I know the ZEO carbon is suppose to have little to no PO4.

Anyone confirm this for me?

[regent2009]

yeah, or microwave it ?

[Oceanic]

yeah, or microwave it ?

Every time I do a carbon change I put it in a container of RO water and microwave for 2 minutes on high. All the dust and impurities float to the surface, the carbon can go directly into the tank.

Works great....

You would be surprised what oily looking residue you find floating on the surface of the water.....

[lastlight]

wow good tip then. I'll have to try this.

[regent2009]

thx Justin brot this up. i'm just about to replace it.

[Snaz]

You can reactivate carbon a couple of times by placing in an old frying pan and cooking on the BBQ as hot as you can get it.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I don't have a microwave but I will try boiling it and see what happens.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You can reactivate carbon a couple of times by placing in an old frying pan and cooking on the BBQ as hot as you can get it.

Good to know!

[fkshiu]

You can reactivate carbon a couple of times by placing in an old frying pan and cooking on the BBQ as hot as you can get it.

I seem to remember that you would need to get the carbon up to temperatures only an industrial kiln can achieve to properly "recharge" the carbon. Not sure of the exact numbers, though.

[Snaz]

I seem to remember that you would need to get the carbon up to temperatures only an industrial kiln can achieve to properly "recharge" the carbon. Not sure of the exact numbers, though.

Certainly the hotter the better but in my experience you can get quite a bit out of the carbon with a BBQ. My only measure is after being cooked the carbon will again "snap, crackle and pop" when wet albeit to a lesser extent than if new.

[shrimpchips]

Certainly the hotter the better but in my experience you can get quite a bit out of the carbon with a BBQ. My only measure is after being cooked the carbon will again "snap, crackle and pop" when wet albeit to a lesser extent than if new.

Does it really retain the ability to absorb and adsorb things as well? The crackling is just the carbon rehydrating - the same crackle as your rice crispies. I'm guessing you can "burn off" some of the crap, but does it all come out?

[fkshiu]

Did some searching around and this patent application for a carbon recharging kiln heats it up to 800-1000 degrees F.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5198398/description.html

That's hotter than on top of a BBQ.

Then there's this exchange involving melev and Boomer suggesting a microwave method:
http://www.petkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/reefs/1301/Carbon-Recharge

Boomer knows his crap so perhaps its worth a try, although the missus probably wouldn't take kindly to such unauthorized use of "her" microwave ;)

[Myka]

I would never microwave anything that's going into the tank. I rarely use it for food for myself. Microwaves are horrible.

I do soak my carbon in RO overnight just room temperature.

[Ian]

Myka, what is your issue with the microwave? It leaves no residual energy other than heat that I am aware of. Fill me in please.
Good thread...any 4 saving means more new corals:biggrin:

[Myka]

Myka, what is your issue with the microwave? It leaves no residual energy other than heat that I am aware of. Fill me in please.

Microwaves damage pretty much anything that goes into them on a molecular level. It's like trying to finish a puzzle with a few pieces missing or misshapen.

Plain old water when microwaved (and cooled) and used to water plants has been damaged to the point that the plants don't recognise it as water anymore, and the plants will wither away. If you don't believe that try it yourself on two "identical" plants. Feed one tap water, and the other microwaved tap water. You can find experiments like these documented on the internet. I didn't believe them, so I tried it myself. It's true.

[Interior_Reef]

Have you tried 3?

one with tap water
one with tap water Microwaved
one with tap water Boiled on the stove

perhaps boiling the the water in general will change the molecular level, regardless of the method used?

[shrimpchips]

Microwaving water does nothing to the molecular structure or composition of water - it will add heat (energy) to the bonds within the molecule, but it won't make it into anything else besides H2O.

Saying it damages it on the molecular level is a load of crap. While it is true that microwaves can damage things like proteins and DNA (due to conformational changes, breakdown of COMPLEX molecular structures, etc), it will NOT cause a molecular change in H2O. Last time I microwaved water it didn't turn into anything else, if I recall correctly.

Documented on the internet? Lots of stuff is documented on the internet - unless it's peer reviewed by experts in the field, it's only as good as the next site about ninjas swallowing frisbees when they get really ****ed.


Maybe the water needs to be cooled first? :lol:

[Oceanic]

I think this thread is going much deeper into the whole idea of heating the carbon in water than it needs too! I urge anyone the next time they are changing carbon to try this before making assumptions. I am not sure about the whole idea that it supercharges the carbon; however, 2 minutes in boiling water makes rinsing it useless, all impurities float to the surface and it is ready for use in the tank immediately.

I understand that boiling or very hot water drives all of the air out of the Carbon making it more effective vs carbon that typically will have lots of air trapped in the microscopic channels when only rinsed with cold water.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I think if you pour hot water on a plant, heated in any way, its going to start to wither away.

I boiled my carbon yesterday before using it and a lot of crap came out of it. I didn't test to see if phosphates had leached out but I assume they may have. In any case, I will always boil carbon first. After boiling, I rinsed it in RO and I was impressed with how little the RO water washed out of the carbon, it was relatively clean.

[Oceanic]

I think if you pour hot water on a plant, heated in any way, its going to start to wither away.

I boiled my carbon yesterday before using it and a lot of crap came out of it. I didn't test to see if phosphates had leached out but I assume they may have. In any case, I will always boil carbon first. After boiling, I rinsed it in RO and I was impressed with how little the RO water washed out of the carbon, it was relatively clean.

BINGO! Exactly why I recommend it.....

[shrimpchips]

I think if you pour hot water on a plant, heated in any way, its going to start to wither away.

I boiled my carbon yesterday before using it and a lot of crap came out of it. I didn't test to see if phosphates had leached out but I assume they may have. In any case, I will always boil carbon first. After boiling, I rinsed it in RO and I was impressed with how little the RO water washed out of the carbon, it was relatively clean.

Hmm, I just soak it overnight now, but may go to boiling. Did you boil it in the microwave?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Hmm, I just soak it overnight now, but may go to boiling. Did you boil it in the microwave?

No I don't have a microwave. So just boiled it on the stovetop for a few minutes. Right away, a lot of crap started coming to the top.

What I like is how "clean" it seemed when I put it in the tank.

Im sure microwaving would do the exact same thing as boiling. I would just use the microwave if I had one.

[shrimpchips]

out of curiosity - how much carbon and how much water did you use?

I'll have to try this next week when I swap my carbon out.

[Oceanic]

No I don't have a microwave. So just boiled it on the stovetop for a few minutes. Right away, a lot of crap started coming to the top.

What I like is how "clean" it seemed when I put it in the tank.

Im sure microwaving would do the exact same thing as boiling. I would just use the microwave if I had one.

It really is a simple observation and I am happy you like the results!

Cold rinsed carbon has a tendency to float = trapped air/dust

Very hot water soaked carbon sinks like a rock and all dust and impurities float to the surface = better prepared carbon!

[lastlight]

Lots of stuff is documented on the internet - unless it's peer reviewed by experts in the field, it's only as good as the next site about ninjas swallowing frisbees when they get really ****ed.

I have a long day of work ahead of me and that just made me snort thank-you! I'm going to be boiling my carbon as well when I get around to getting a reactor.

[shrimpchips]

I'm glad someone thought it was funny :)

My carbon doesn't float after a cold soak overnight (BRS ROX carbon), but I do find it's still silty.

Do you guys let it cool naturally or do you quench it in cold/RT RO/DI water?

[Oceanic]

I'm glad someone thought it was funny :)

My carbon doesn't float after a cold soak overnight (BRS ROX carbon), but I do find it's still silty.

Do you guys let it cool naturally or do you quench it in cold/RT RO/DI water?


Soaking it overnight gives the air time to escape I suppose. I quench the carbon with some cool R/O before it goes in my filter bag.

[mr.wilson]

Carbon is activated at a temperature of 900 C in the presence of an oxidizing gas. It can also be activated with strong acid, often leaving phosphates behind.

Anything you do in your microwave or BBQ with used carbon will only release the absorbed carbon back into your tank at a greater rate then it was originally absorbed.

There was one study done in Russia in the 50's that claimed microwaves change the molecular structure of food, but it has been discredited.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

It really is a simple observation and I am happy you like the results!

Cold rinsed carbon has a tendency to float = trapped air/dust

Very hot water soaked carbon sinks like a rock and all dust and impurities float to the surface = better prepared carbon!

Exactly what he said :wink:

[Myka]

Microwaving water does nothing to the molecular structure or composition of water - it will add heat (energy) to the bonds within the molecule, but it won't make it into anything else besides H2O.

Saying it damages it on the molecular level is a load of crap. While it is true that microwaves can damage things like proteins and DNA (due to conformational changes, breakdown of COMPLEX molecular structures, etc), it will NOT cause a molecular change in H2O. Last time I microwaved water it didn't turn into anything else, if I recall correctly.

Documented on the internet? Lots of stuff is documented on the internet - unless it's peer reviewed by experts in the field, it's only as good as the next site about ninjas swallowing frisbees when they get really ****ed.


Maybe the water needs to be cooled first? :lol:

What a doltish comment.

[shrimpchips]

Plain old water when microwaved (and cooled) and used to water plants has been damaged to the point that the plants don't recognise it as water anymore, and the plants will wither away. If you don't believe that try it yourself on two "identical" plants. Feed one tap water, and the other microwaved tap water. You can find experiments like these documented on the internet. I didn't believe them, so I tried it myself. It's true.

Right back at you.

[Canadian]

deleted

[lastlight]

Regardless of this whole microwave debate I think boiling the carbon in water can please everyone.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Regardless of this whole microwave debate I think boiling the carbon in water can please everyone.

It sure did bring me some pleasure.

[mr.wilson]

Regardless of this whole microwave debate I think boiling the carbon in water can please everyone.

I'm not pleased with microwaving carbon, unless it heats the carbon up to 900 degrees and you are adding an activation gas. A microwave or oven will open a few of the larger pores that are clogged, but 90% of the pores will remain spent. You could put the carbon back in the tank for a couple of days to remove some larger pigmented organics, but it will expel everything it has absorbed over the next couple of weeks.

[Canadian]

Why does science always have to get in the way of a good argument? Life is way more fun when you believe in conspiracy theories, internet legends, etc.

Here, watch this. It's fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIaV8swc-fo

[lastlight]

Yeah I'm not going to boil my carbon thinking it's recharged. I'm tossing mine. Like Oceanic stated it seems to clean it before it's used at all a little.

[mr.wilson]

A good compromise would be to clean your carbon just before you throw it out. You'll have the nicest smelling garbage on the block :)

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah I'm not going to boil my carbon thinking it's recharged. I'm tossing mine. Like Oceanic stated it seems to clean it before it's used at all a little.

Yeah what he said...

[shrimpchips]

Yeah I'm not going to boil my carbon thinking it's recharged. I'm tossing mine. Like Oceanic stated it seems to clean it before it's used at all a little.

+2. I'll boil just as a pre-rinse if in fact it does do a better job of cleaning the powdered carbon out than a simple pre-soak.

[mr.wilson]

+2. I'll boil just as a pre-rinse if in fact it does do a better job of cleaning the powdered carbon out than a simple pre-soak.

Yeah, by all means I agree it's the right way to wash new carbon. You are supposed to use RO/DI water but I don't think there are enough impurities in the small amount of water it takes to initially wash it to worry about it. The impurities taken up in tap water are much smaller in size than what we pull out of our tanks.

[shrimpchips]

yeah, I that's true. I always use RO to soak/wash since I have it on hand anyways. Force of habit from the lab too.

[Oceanic]

Yeah I'm not going to boil my carbon thinking it's recharged. I'm tossing mine. Like Oceanic stated it seems to clean it before it's used at all a little.

You are correct my friend, I have no interest in recharging carbon at all. I just simply urge everyone to try this once and then comment back to this thread with your observations.

All I do is put my 2 cups of KZ carbon in a tuperware container into the microwave. I nuke it on high for 2-3 minutes then remove the carbon and pour off all the dust and crap that floats to the surface. I let it stand for a few minutes then spoon it into my passive filter bag!

Just do it!!

[lastlight]

Force of habit from the lab too.

I hear those 'labs' are always blowing up dude. Please be careful.

[shrimpchips]

They only blow up if you're stupid. Or careless.

Both of which I can accuse myself of being, unfortunately more often than not.

[lastlight]

Hmm. I think my methlab joke went under the radar. What sort of lab do you really work in?

[Myka]

Right back at you.

You were been doltish to me. You could have chosen to use some tact in your reply no matter how stupid you think my post was.

Seeing as you're obviously much more brilliant than I, please do explain why (cooled) microwaved water has a different effect on plants than non-microwaved.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

You were been doltish to me. You could have chosen to use some tact in your reply no matter how stupid you think my post was.

Seeing as you're obviously much more brilliant than I, please do explain why (cooled) microwaved water has a different effect on plants than non-microwaved.

Can you start a new thread please?

This whole microwave thing is getting really silly.

I was just curious about the darn carbon!

Maybe start "Myka's guide to microwaving"?

[Canadian]

You were been doltish to me. You could have chosen to use some tact in your reply no matter how stupid you think my post was.

Seeing as you're obviously much more brilliant than I, please do explain why (cooled) microwaved water has a different effect on plants than non-microwaved.



It doesn't. Plain and simple. The whole concept is totally baseless and so completely stupid no scientist would waste their time even attempting to refute it. Stupid people say so many stupid things that the scientific community has to ignore them until they start to threaten people's health, well-being, etc. This urban legend is tantamount to the cell phone signal causing popcorn to pop internet urban legend/myth. Lots of stupid people passed that on like it was fact also. When the baseless claims start to be adopted en masse and they cause health concerns then the scientific community has to step in and perform the necessary research to save people from themselves (think the dangers of vaccines nonsense and the link to autism). And yet, you can't stop stupidity because they keep grasping at new straws.

Unfortunately (or perhaps I should say fortunately) I can't provide you with an RCT to disprove this damaged water stupidity because, as noted above, no self respecting scientist would even bother to test the hypothesis unless maybe their misinformed child believed this nonsense and they were so worried that their child would reiterate this nonsense in public that they'd be a total embarrassment. Then, maybe they'd perform a quasi experimental test in the home just to appease the poor child and lay the issue to rest.

Here's some information on this urban legend and an additional "experiment" that refutes the claim: http://www.snopes.com/science/microwave/plants.asp

Why is it that people can make scientifically baseless claims and statements (and then support them with pseudoscience) and expect people to pat them on the head and be nice and "tactful" while dealing with the barrage of stupidity?

[mr.wilson]

It doesn't. Plain and simple. The whole concept is totally baseless and so completely stupid no scientist would waste their time even attempting to refute it. Stupid people say so many stupid things that the scientific community has to ignore them until they start to threaten people's health, well-being, etc. This urban legend is tantamount to the cell phone signal causing popcorn to pop internet urban legend/myth. Lots of stupid people passed that on like it was fact also. When the baseless claims start to be adopted en masse and they cause health concerns then the scientific community has to step in and perform the necessary research to save people from themselves (think the dangers of vaccines nonsense and the link to autism). And yet, you can't stop stupidity because they keep grasping at new straws.

Unfortunately (or perhaps I should say fortunately) I can't provide you with an RCT to disprove this damaged water stupidity because, as noted above, no self respecting scientist would even bother to test the hypothesis unless maybe their misinformed child believed this nonsense and they were so worried that their child would reiterate this nonsense in public that they'd be a total embarrassment. Then, maybe they'd perform a quasi experimental test in the home just to appease the poor child and lay the issue to rest.

Here's some information on this urban legend and an additional experiment that refutes the claim: http://www.snopes.com/science/microwave/plants.asp

Why is it that people can make scientifically baseless claims and statements (and then support them with pseudoscience) and expect people to pat them on the head and be nice and "tactful" while dealing with the barrage of stupidity?



Well I have to commend you on editing last nights comment, but I have to admit it was even funnier than the video you posted :) I see you got sucked into the vortex again here. The edit function has saved me more than a few times.

There really is no such thing as a stupid question or idea, only the way one purports it. One of my pet peeves in the aquarium forum world is when someone throws out a one line comment with absolutely no support then asks others to spend an hour double checking facts, and providing references and links to refute it or support their own claim. These hit and run, one-liners, usually follow up with an "I've never heard of that", or some other comment to show their continued disbelief and redoubled conviction.

A scientific mind is always willing to admit that we are wrong because we know we are. As he said in the video you posted "if science knew all the answers it would stop".... well some of the people on these forums have stopped. We just need to work around them and their counterproductive "contributions".

BTW, boiling water will cause calcium to fall out of solution (take a look at the bottom of your kettle), so it would actually be better for your plants. Nothing to do with microwaves though. This is why we never dissolve calcium hydroxide or other calcium supplements or salt mixes in hot water.

[Myka]

Oh sorry, Snopes is definitely the be all end all. I retract my argument.

If Shrimpchips would have stated his opinion in a more diplomatic way I wouldn't have responded. It was quite clear he was trying to be offensive.

[Canadian]

Well I have to commend you on editing last nights comment, but I have to admit it was even funnier than the video you posted :) I see you got sucked into the vortex again here. The edit function has saved me more than a few times.

There really is no such thing as a stupid question or idea, only the way one purports it. One of my pet peeves in the aquarium forum world is when someone throws out a one line comment with absolutely no support then asks others to spend an hour double checking facts, and providing references and links to refute it or support their own claim. These hit and run, one-liners, usually follow up with an "I've never heard of that", or some other comment to show their continued disbelief and redoubled conviction.

A scientific mind is always willing to admit that we are wrong because we know we are. As he said in the video you posted "if science knew all the answers it would stop".... well some of the people on these forums have stopped. We just need to work around them and their counterproductive "contributions".

BTW, boiling water will cause calcium to fall out of solution (take a look at the bottom of your kettle), so it would actually be better for your plants. Nothing to do with microwaves though. This is why we never dissolve calcium hydroxide or other calcium supplements or salt mixes in hot water.

I agree. I should know better. And I stopped myself last night only to be sucked in today - too much time on my hands with a day off I suppose.

Thanks Mr. Wilson for your pragmatic response. I've enjoyed your additional presence here on Canreef as a well-informed contributor and voice of reason. Do you think we can encourage the moderators to propose a new "get in the ****** sack" policy?

[mr.wilson]

I agree. I should know better. And I stopped myself last night only to be sucked in today - too much time on my hands with a day off I suppose.

Thanks Mr. Wilson for your pragmatic response. I've enjoyed your additional presence here on Canreef as a well-informed contributor and voice of reason. Do you think we can encourage the moderators to propose a new "get in the ****** sack" policy?

maybe a yellow card, orange card then you get sacked.

[shrimpchips]

Myka, I stand by my statement - the load of crap statement might not have been tactful, but as Canadian said, I won't sit by when someone is making a more than outrageously idiotic claim as if it's the lastest article in Nature and dignify it with a less than comedic response.

Lastlight, I work in a lab that studies proteins/molecular signalling involved in allowing for capillary growth in skeletal muscle. Meth lab's only going up if science doesn't work out for me :D

So I'd have something more than non-sequitur to the thread, I microwaved my carbon. Beautiful!! Particulate matter floating on top, carbon the bottom. Skim off the surface layer, rinse once and clean!

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

So I'd have something more than non-sequitur to the thread, I microwaved my carbon. Beautiful!! Particulate matter floating on top, carbon the bottom. Skim off the surface layer, rinse once and clean!

:mrgreen: