For those not using a dosing pump, but otherwise automated dosing thingamajig...

[Myka]

...what are you using? I'm trying to figure out the best option for a low-cost dosing automation. This will be a temporary fix until I can fork out the cash for dosing pumps. My calcium and alkalinity are fluctuating too much.

I've seen everything from Aqualifters to air pumps...whatcha got? :razz:

Maybe "low-cost" automation is too risky. I might just start mixing up my own 2-part (using reef products, not "raw" chemicals) if I can't figure out a decent wannabe dosing thingamajig.

Just trying to get some ideas to go on.

[simplycoral]

I went for the Aqua-lifter option on my 90g connected to a digital timer from Canadian Tire. I have been lifting the liquid from the container and dosing it through a gate valve over the tank :smile:

Not sure if it's the most reliable method :neutral: but it saved me the chore each day! until the timer failed...

I have ordered the twin doser for the new tank :Banane06:

S.

[Delphinus]

I run 4 aqualifter pumps so I can dose Ca & Alk into two separate tanks. Two timers set to run for 1 minute intervals on 1.5 hour intervals. Each dripline ends with an irrigation needle valve for drip control. Think I spent $15 each for the aqualifters. Everything else I already had.

The driprate is way more steady than I ever thought it would be. It's working out well, in fact, I pretty much have the needlewheel valves open all the way. I haven't tested yet this week to see where my Ca is at but I was debating switching the 1 minute durations to 2 minutes.

[globaldesigns]

I run 4 aqualifter pumps so I can dose Ca & Alk into two separate tanks. Two timers set to run for 1 minute intervals on 1.5 hour intervals. Each dripline ends with an irrigation needle valve for drip control. Think I spent $15 each for the aqualifters. Everything else I already had.

The driprate is way more steady than I ever thought it would be. It's working out well, in fact, I pretty much have the needlewheel valves open all the way. I haven't tested yet this week to see where my Ca is at but I was debating switching the 1 minute durations to 2 minutes.

Hey, would you ever allow someone like myself to come see the setup. I too have been thinking about this, but am too scared to screw things up. Would love someone to show me the ropes.

[Delphinus]

Sure, there's not much to it, but you're totally welcome to check it out. Please promise not to laugh at the state of my basement. :redface: Shoot me a PM sometime, I'm down in Evergreen. I'll try to take a picture of it maybe but I have to find my camera's battery charger first.

[Oceanic]

I have tried all kinds of dosers including the Aqualifter pump, the best thing I have found is one of these recommissioned hospital IV peristaltic devices.

I found mine on Ebay but they are worth the money new. I use the device to feed my calcium reactor partnered with my reef controller controlling the PH inside the reactor. I do not have to fiddle with bubble rates, drip rates or anything.

If my ALK levels are off I just increase the ML per Hour or decrease depending on my test results. Easy as PIE!! Next to my controller this is the best purchase I made for my system in regards to water quality.

http://www.reefdosingpumps.com/product_images/Sentry.jpg

[lastlight]

Any idea what brand and roughly how much ? You need to buy one for each solution of course too.

[Oceanic]

Any idea what brand and roughly how much ? You need to buy one for each solution of course too.

These are available from www.innovativeaquatics.com (http://www.innovativeaquatics.com/index.html). You do not have to buy two, you just simply run the two channel tubing that is available, it does equal doses of two separate fluid simultaneously. They are well worth the money.

Ian

Two channel tubing.
http://www.innovativeaquatics.com/images/2-channel.jpg

[lastlight]

I thought ca and alk are used in different amounts. Do you compensate for this by altering the concentrations of each solution?

[Delphinus]

For the most part in a prebalanced tank, you will add both at fairly close the same rate. You could always do a manual adjustment say once a week if there was drift in one of the parameters.

Having said that, I would prefer being able to add both independent of one another.

I know with the Masterflex peristaltic pumps (lab grade, very expensive, although the occasional good deal comes up on ebay .. also LittleSilverMax had at one point, one for sale, if anyone wanted one of these they should send him a PM) can have interchangeable heads to allow for different flowrates which basically involve different sized tubes or different diameters of the rollers). But the speed at which the rollers turn would be the same for each head so it's still not AS independently adjustable from each other that two seperate feed pumps would be.

[Oceanic]

I thought ca and alk are used in different amounts. Do you compensate for this by altering the concentrations of each solution?

Yes, as stated above, once the levels are adjusted manually they are supposed be dosed at equal amounts. The Randy Holmes two part mixture for calcium and Alk is calculated to replace the elements at the same levels they are depleted. I would not run two dosing pumps; however, you would want to make sure each tube that drips the elements are in a separate part of the system or sump.

Ian

[lastlight]

If you look at the price of this pump (and I'm sure it's good) it's very evident how good a deal that 3 channel Profilux is. Not a low-cost solution. Just sayin'. I also want independent control.

I think my system will be jugs by the sump with the pump nozzles hanging over into the tank lol. Open the door, pump each however many times and DONE. For now anyways.

There's also Doug's system. I think he's patented the 'cup on a platform' technique. You could combine that with my jugs by sump idea. Pump whatever you need into your dosing cups (connected to each jug with tubing from pump nozzles) and it doses slowly in.

[Delphinus]

:lol: I don't know how serious you are with that but to be honest I quite like that idea!!! We can call it the BrettNDoug (pronounced "brettendug") method. Then, down the road when the calcium demands rise to to the point where more automation is preferred, you hire a student to pump the jugs on an hourly basis.

[JDigital]

This must be one of the longest thread titles in Canreef history... :lol:

[lastlight]

LMAO! I think the cup looks a touch ghetto but I actually might do something like that haha.

[Skimmerking]

Hi Mindy I use the good old Kalk Reactor to supplment my Demand for CAL and ALK. I have it running with the Topp off too its tee'd from the RO/DI . the dripper runs 24/7 on a drip rate of 1 drip every 2 -3 sec's and it is keeping my levels perfect.

[Myka]

Thanks guys!

I'm trying to stay away from a doser for now - the whole purpose of this thread. :D I want to put a doser on the tank, but there are other upgrades that are required before that. Like an ATO. I need one of those badly.

I have considered a Kalk reactor, but it is not much cheaper than a doser anyway. I think I will probably just stick to manual dosing, but I should get my butt in gear and figure out daily dosing. Sigh...

[Delphinus]

Well there ya go. 3 head peri-style doser pump, Ca, Alk and topup. First two on timers or the pump controller if you have one like that, and the last one on a float switch. Done and done. Hey, I'm just looking out for you here.

PS. Or a 4 head, Ca, Alk, Mg, and topup.

[fishytime]

The drip method is actually not my idea.....lets give credit where credit is due....I borrowed that idea from the sps master hiseff....Greg. He was dosing the 180 like that and the big tank for a while before he got his profilux....

We made a ghetto setup at the store...we used a couple small powerheads timed to come on for 1 minute and the flow rate is dialed in with a small inline ball valve.....we used a 10g tank for a holding tank divided in two by a baffle, Ca on one side DKH on the other....we still manually dose Mg.

[Jason McK]

I use the Profilux 3 pump doser. I'm only using 2 pumps for CA and Alk. Works really well. Havn;t had an issue at all with it.

J

[banditpowdercoat]

So, Dosing with a doser is pretty much set and forget? Once you figure out how much your tank needs, set doser at that and periodically check levels???
I've only been adding Ca/Mg with water changes so far, but am starting to get some SPS so I guess I should be monitoring it more closely? I HATE doing them damn tests tho, so does the wife. :( Looking for less labour intesive way??

[Tom R]

I use the ProfiLux 3 pump doser. I'm only using 2 pumps for CA and Alk. Works really well. Havn't had an issue at all with it.

J

Ditto

This system is the cheapest, easiest and most stable system I have used in all my years of Reef Keeping.

My Cal is steady at 420 and my Alk is steady 8.00.

I also dose Mag however it only requires a single dosing once a week to keep my tanks at 1350.

Tom R

[Delphinus]

Alas you can't get away from doing tests. They suck, but prudence dictates you stay on top of your levels because you don't want to find out on the cusp of a tank crash (or just after) that a param has been drifting off for weeks.

So, testing sucks, but I suggest you do it anyhow at least once a week.

Other than that, yes, dosers and reactors are generally set-and-forget once you've dialed them in to your tanks consumption rates.

[Tom R]

I suggest you do it anyhow at least once a week.

Other than that, yes, dosers and reactors are generally set-and-forget once you've dialed them in to your tanks consumption rates.

I still test every 7 to 14 days.

Tom R

[kien]

Ditto

This system is the cheapest, easiest and most stable system I have used in all my years of Reef Keeping.

My Cal is steady at 420 and my Alk is steady 8.00.

I also dose Mag however it only requires a single dosing once a week to keep my tanks at 1350.

Tom R

ditto ditto.. exact same setup here. 3 pump profilux but only using 2 for alk and calc. Mag done manually once in a blue moon. I think the doser is probably one of my best tank investments I've made. Since dialing it in (Alk 8, Calc 420, Mag 1400), I have not had to touch the doser other than to refill the solution bottles. The stability comes in its ability to dose very little at a time and its precision.

[Delphinus]

I have no doubt that it's the one of the more stable and easy to use products but isn't it still .. um... several hundred dollars ?! :neutral: I don't see how that qualifies as "cheapest" sorry. MY method is just as stable, maybe not as easy to use, and cost me well under $100. I'm not saying you wasted your money, I just find it hard to accept that this is the "cheapest" solution.

TeeHeeHee

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I have no doubt that it's the one of the more stable and easy to use products but isn't it still .. um... several hundred dollars ?! :neutral: I don't see how that qualifies as "cheapest" sorry. MY method is just as stable, maybe not as easy to use, and cost me well under $100. I'm not saying you wasted your money, I just find it hard to accept that this is the "cheapest" solution.

I just picked up a few aqualifters the other day to do something similar to what your doing. I had planned on using a few 1/4" john guest valves to control the drip rate but maybe I will look into the needle valve. Do you think its much different?

So far its cost a fraction of what I paid for a dosing pump earlier this year...which I sold before ever using.

[Jason McK]

I not sure if Tom meant the Profilux was the cheapest. But the dosing method is the cheapest in comparison to the equipment required when using a CA reactor

J

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I not sure if Tom meant the Profilux was the cheapest. But the dosing method is the cheapest in comparison to the equipment required when using a CA reactor

J

Yes he said it was the cheapest HE has used.

[Delphinus]

Ohhh. Ok, that makes sense then. Yes, far less investment heavy than a calcium reactor. And a calcium reactor is a whole new definition of fussy (at least when first dialing in and making steady-state).

PS. When I reread my post now it comes across a bit harsh .. wasn't meant to be and if anyone else feels it's harsh besides me then please accept my apologies. Posted in haste without adequate smileys to convey the appropriate silliness in my voice that would have been there had I been speaking the words not typing them.

[muck]

Its ok Tony. I edited your post to make it sound not so harsh. :razz:

[Delphinus]

:lol: Thanks buddy. Er, I mean, giggle giggle thanks!

[banditpowdercoat]

So, If I were to get a couple Aqualifters, what do I do with them?? LOL Kalc? or? So far Ive just used ChemMaster's crystals for my CA/Mg

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

So, If I were to get a couple Aqualifters, what do I do with them?? LOL Kalc? or? So far Ive just used ChemMaster's crystals for my CA/Mg

You can use them to dose 2 part. Use 1/4" tubing and a 1/4" valve to control the drip rate. Then figure out how much you want to have dosed in a minute (unless you can find a timer that will do seconds). If you find one that does seconds, you probably don't need the valve. Once your dosing enough two part, you wouldn't need the valve anymore either.

Basically what I did today was run it with just water for 1 minute into a small measuring container, adjusting the valve until it puts out the amount I want in that minute. Got it to xx ml per minute and will have it turn on every 2 hours to dose this small amount throughout the day. Alternating alk and ca. So one hour is alk and then the next is ca.

I would be really careful with these pumps though and check them every once in a while. I use one for my ATO and it sometimes doesn't turn on when its suppose to.

They are not designed to do this really but we'll see how it goes.

They are great for a cheap ATO. Just need to get a float, splice the wires into one side of the aqualifter power cord. When the float drops to the bottom, it restores the circuit and turns the pump on, once the float rises, the pump shuts off. Im sure most people here know this but for those who don't (I heard ATO being mentioned before). It cost about $25 to do.

I wouldn't use the aqualifter for Kalk...I think it would clog up pretty fast. Even with two part, I would imagine the pump needs to be cleaned out with vinegar a few times a year to keep it running properly.

[lastlight]

Yeah I'm worried about the clogging myself.

Pumping a few jugs is pretty easy. At least you know it gets done each day. You could devise rings to go under the plunger that corresponds to how much fluid you need? They stop the pump from being full stroke if need be.

[Delphinus]

I thought you'd probably want a couple pump strokes per addition? In which case it's more just counting the times rather than stopping it from full stroke?

With the Aqualifters for me about 6 months in, I find I haven't had any issues with the pump clogging, but my alk drippers in particular are gummed up. So the pump itself seems fine but I need to clean the valves up. The calcium ones seem totally fine.

I imagine that over time though that the pump would lose its ... um .. I don't know what word I'm looking for here. Vitality? They look just like air pumps to me. And air pumps just seem to weaken over time so I'm thinking the same thing will happen sooner or later.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Yeah I'm worried about the clogging myself.

Pumping a few jugs is pretty easy. At least you know it gets done each day. You could devise rings to go under the plunger that corresponds to how much fluid you need? They stop the pump from being full stroke if need be.

What is this "pumping of jugs" you speak of?

[lastlight]

Maybe you're not old enough to understand 2-part dosing Justin =)

[banditpowdercoat]

You can use them to dose 2 part. Use 1/4" tubing and a 1/4" valve to control the drip rate. Then figure out how much you want to have dosed in a minute (unless you can find a timer that will do seconds). If you find one that does seconds, you probably don't need the valve. Once your dosing enough two part, you wouldn't need the valve anymore either.

Basically what I did today was run it with just water for 1 minute into a small measuring container, adjusting the valve until it puts out the amount I want in that minute. Got it to xx ml per minute and will have it turn on every 2 hours to dose this small amount throughout the day. Alternating alk and ca. So one hour is alk and then the next is ca.

I would be really careful with these pumps though and check them every once in a while. I use one for my ATO and it sometimes doesn't turn on when its suppose to.

They are not designed to do this really but we'll see how it goes.

They are great for a cheap ATO. Just need to get a float, splice the wires into one side of the aqualifter power cord. When the float drops to the bottom, it restores the circuit and turns the pump on, once the float rises, the pump shuts off. Im sure most people here know this but for those who don't (I heard ATO being mentioned before). It cost about $25 to do.

I wouldn't use the aqualifter for Kalk...I think it would clog up pretty fast. Even with two part, I would imagine the pump needs to be cleaned out with vinegar a few times a year to keep it running properly.


OK, Thx, I got timers that can run Miliseconds :D

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

OK, Thx, I got timers that can run Miliseconds :D

That's great then. Makes everything even easier and less chance for things to clog or go wrong.

Can I ask where you got them?

[Delphinus]

MMMM Pumping of jugs. :lol:



What? All I said was "Pumping of jugs." We are still talking about dosing right?!

[Delphinus]

Ok ok ok before the lynch mob gets me..

Psst! Justin! http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/calcium-alkalinity-magnesium/two-part-accessories/one-ounce-dispensing-pump.html

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

MMMM Pumping of jugs. :lol:



What? All I said was "Pumping of jugs." We are still talking about dosing right?!

:lol:

I knew that would come up. I'm serious though! What is all this talk of jugs and the pumping of those jugs?

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Ok ok ok before the lynch mob gets me..

Psst! Justin! http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/calcium-alkalinity-magnesium/two-part-accessories/one-ounce-dispensing-pump.html

Oh...

[Delphinus]

In a futile attempt to reclaim my honour now (I realize that ship has sailed long ago, I may as well ask for my hair to grow back, but I digress), I'll add to this that I held off doing the Aqualifter pump dosing for the longest time because I was *certain* I would need timers that could do sub-minute intervals. In the end though that was a moot concern: in fact I'll probably switch the durations to two minutes per cycle because I'm having trouble keeping my Ca steady for some reason (just keeps dropping and dropping).

[PoonTang]

that's great then. Makes everything even easier and less chance for things to clog or go wrong.

Can i ask where you got them?

+1

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

In a futile attempt to reclaim my honour now (I realize that ship has sailed long ago, I may as well ask for my hair to grow back, but I digress), I'll add to this that I held off doing the Aqualifter pump dosing for the longest time because I was *certain* I would need timers that could do sub-minute intervals. In the end though that was a moot concern: in fact I'll probably switch the durations to two minutes per cycle because I'm having trouble keeping my Ca steady for some reason (just keeps dropping and dropping).

Plus, if the fluid is being pushed up a foot or two, it almost is only a drip. My ATO is a few feet and its a steady drip without a valve.

[banditpowdercoat]

That's great then. Makes everything even easier and less chance for things to clog or go wrong.

Can I ask where you got them?

Siemens LOGO's bacically, a little PLC. Has inputs, controllable output relays, and a host of functions, timers, counters, even analog possibilities for temp controll too. I get them off Ebay. If your looking, look at the last 4 numbers of the model eg OBA0-OBA6 OBA6 is most current, and OBA0 is the originals. the amount of functions and possibilities increase with each model. Like the OBA0 cant have any Analog, I dont think that came into effect untill the 4 series. Have to watch the letters after too, some dont have internal clocks in them. You want a RC in the name, like Logo 230 RC along with the model number

search ebay, some can be found cheap. They even have a little LCD display that works with the OBA6. called the Logo! TD

All part of my master controller plan. presently I have a few OBA0's one doing lights on the 150g, another handeling ATO duties fro both tanks and the 3rd as spare. Programing is easy too, all Block Function logic. mostly Boolean with some premade functions. The PC programming software, LogoSoftComfort is real easy to use, even has a simulate function so you can test without plugging into the unit itself.

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=siemens+logo&_sacat=See-All-Categories

[JPotter]

Peristaltic i/v pumps are nice to have...I don't know the cost of the aquarium ones .. but I think one could achieve the same very inexpensively by using a bag such as i/v fluids are packaged in to hold whatever it is you want above the height of drip entry and adjusting the rate by the drip set..most are either 10 or 60 drops/ml. Easy and very inexpensive.I/v fluid bags (you may still be able to get bottles somewhere) come in many sizes..500ml to 20 liters or more. I have used the manual i/v flow controllers to adjust air line flow and it worked well.

[Marlin65]

I have a two part dozer but have not needed it so far so it is not hooked up right now. I am having a problem keeping my alk up and have been adding that to my top off water. It raises my PH too much though running at 8.5 and my alk is at 7.6 Can I go higher on my PH than that or am I doing something wrong?
My Ca and Mag are not a problem I just add a bit per week. I have a Ca reactor as well but not hooked up. I use baked arm and hammer.
Don't want to high jack this thread just wondering?

[fishytime]

What are you dosing for your alk?....If its Randy's recipe then, dont bake the baking soda...add it directly to the water and then heat(so the BS disovles completely)....this way wont increase your ph.

[littlesilvermax]

I know with the Masterflex peristaltic pumps (lab grade, very expensive, although the occasional good deal comes up on ebay .. also LittleSilverMax had at one point, one for sale, if anyone wanted one of these they should send him a PM) can have interchangeable heads to allow for different flowrates which basically involve different sized tubes or different diameters of the rollers). But the speed at which the rollers turn would be the same for each head so it's still not AS independently adjustable from each other that two seperate feed pumps would be.

I still have that pump. I think it is about $800 new. I paid $300 for it, and I will let it go for $150. I kinda forgot about it. It is infinitely variable.

At any rate, you can have more then one head on it.

It doesn't matter if your rates of calcium and alk are different (consumption) because you can just dilute one of the mixtures more.

FWIW, I was (and am still not) a big fan of pumps on timers. I have gone through a good 15-20 timers in my reefing career :wink: and they all fail at one time or another. If they fail on, that can be very bad!

[Delphinus]

You don't bake yours? I agree that the baked baking soda is a huge PITA to dissolve. I end up adding the stuff very slowly and sometimes use a blender. I'm using boiled RO/DI at this point too to make sure it dissolves "easier".

So looking at your tank and then looking at mine .. if you're not baking yours then I might just happily skip that step from now on. How much are you heating your baking soda water solution after you've mixed it?

What are you dosing for your alk?....If its Randy's recipe then, dont bake the baking soda...add it directly to the water and then heat(so the BS disovles completely)....this way wont increase your ph.

[Marlin65]

I thought you had to bake it for an hour at 400 so it does not raise the PH?
I have done this but find it still raises my PH
Maybe I should use a different brand other than Arm and hammer.
What do you guys use?

[Delphinus]

Snapped some pictures last night of my setup. As you can see, it's pretty ghetto.

So: Two timers. I have them set to turn on 8 times per day for 2 minutes.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/Dosing/P1010006.jpg

Schedule - Alkalinity
00:00-00:02
03:00-03:02
06:00-06:02
09:00-09:02
12:00-12:02
15:00-15:02
18:00-18:02
21:00-21:02

Schedule - Calcium
01:30-01:32
04:30-04:32
07:30-07:32
10:30-10:32
13:30-13:32
16:30-16:32
19:30-19:32
22:30-22:32

The reason for the plug splitters is that each timer controls two pumps, since I dose into two tanks, it's easier to control the driprate individually if they're on their own pump. For the cost of an Aqualifter (around $10-20 depending on where you shop) this is an easy way to scale upwards. If I really wanted, ie., if the Aqualifter pumps fail, I could just as easily switch these out for say the "Drew's Dosers" at BRS and just adjust the on/off times to longer or shorter if need be. Or I could just get a Profilux doser (I do admit I like them, I just can't afford one right now).

The pumps and jugs:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/Dosing/P1010007.jpg

I never throw anything out so I had lots of these ARM and carbon containers lying around. They are nicely about 1 gallon each and easy to open up and clean and refill. I drilled two holes in each, have rigid airline tubing through those holes so the pumps pick up from the bottom of the container, and then just standard 1/4" tubing the pump intakes and 1/4" tubing that go to their respective tanks.

The irrigation dripvalves:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn239/delphinus_photos/Dosing/P1010008.jpg

Pretty ghetto, I just have the tubes dangling over the sump right over the return pumps intake. I test Ca and Alk weekly and adjust the driprates as needed if there is drift in any of the parameters. You can get away with using a single timer if need be, and thus add the Ca and Alk at the same time, but then don't do what you see here (ie., being added to the same location) - put the drippers in different spots so that the additives don't react to each other.

[Skimmerking]

looks good to me Tony clean your Salt Creep lazy bones

[findingnemo1]

Where in calgary sells the aqualiftyer?

[Delphinus]

Big Als for sure. Maybe some other stores too, but I'm not 10)% certain which ones.

[Delphinus]

looks good to me Tony clean your Salt Creep lazy bones

I love it when you talk dirty to me, you big non-salt-creepy kind of guy, you... :mrgreen:

[muck]

:eek:

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

I love it when you talk dirty to me, you big non-salt-creepy kind of guy, you... :mrgreen:

And now your just being a creepy kinda guy...

[Delphinus]

"Now" ?

Hey, you subsist on 4 hours of sleep and then get called lazy and come up with a better comeback. And a bigger logo. :p

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

"Now" ?

Hey, you subsist on 4 hours of sleep and then get called lazy and come up with a better comeback. And a bigger logo. :p

Well...I actually went to sleep last night at 4am and was up at 8:30 this morning working on a big logo :lol:

[Delphinus]

Ok the setup is pretty close then. Man you are lazy bones.

Whatcha got for me?

[JPotter]

What type of timer is needed to give such short time intervals..frequent repeats of 2 min and where does one get them? I think the ones I have are from IKEA and have 15 min increments! Also if you use a Ca reactor with CO2 is dosing needed or redundant?
Thx

[om6acw]

What type of timer is needed to give such short time intervals..frequent repeats of 2 min and where does one get them? I think the ones I have are from IKEA and have 15 min increments! Also if you use a Ca reactor with CO2 is dosing needed or redundant?
Thx


this one works great

http://shop.rona.ca/shop/~timer-digital-timer-woods-60560_!digital-timer_shop

[Delphinus]

Pretty much any regular digital timer will do as long as it has enough on/off programs available. With it being digital you'll have at least one minute resolution. It's if you need an "on" period of less than one minute, where the timers get harder to find.

[JPotter]

Thank you..now is 2 part dosing something one does when using a Ca reactor? I only have mine on for 12 hours at a time as I worry it will lower pH and I seem to find it hard to keep my pH at or above 8.

[Delphinus]

Sorry I missed that question before.

No, if you're already running a Ca reactor there's no need for 2-part dosing. (Well, with a small exception, I'll get to that later.) Similarly if you're already doing 2-part dosing, there's no need for a Ca reactor.

2-part dosing is showing a resurgence in popularity over the Ca reactor because it's simpler. A Ca reactor can be fussy to dial in, it requires pressurized CO2 which pulls down your pH, and it can only add Ca and Alk in balance with one another. It does a better job of *maintaining* levels than it does *raising* levels. So here's that exception I promised earlier: you still have to use 2-part dosing at first to bring your levels to target and then you use the reactor to maintain those levels. In actual fact you are better off leaving it on 24/7 rather than on for 12 hours only, because you want a steady-state situation. If you're finding a reactor is pulling your pH down too much, it is either not dialed in right or it's sized perhaps too big for your system. There's quite an art and a science to dialing it in. More on that later though. About the pH, for the most part it shouldn't be a concern. Whereas a typical reef should run about 8.4 daytime, 8.0 nighttime; a reactor fed tank will be more like 7.8-8.2, 7.7-8.1 or in some cases even 7.6-8.0. These are not numbers to worry about however. If it gets lower than 7.6 though, I would say something is off.

You want your reactor to be set at 6.7. You need whatever bubble rate to acheive this. You want a nominal flowrate of your effluent. A fast drip is usually where you want to start, or up to about 60ml/min. You dose manually to get your Ca and Alk to proper levels, then you leave the reactor run for a week, and test again. If the levels are down, you redose Ca/Alk back to target, and you increase the effluent rate, and adjust the bubble rate to achieve pH 6.7 (a pH controller is nice for this, you overset your bubble rate and let the pH controller turn on and off the solenoid to acheive 6.7. Nice, but certainly not necessary.) If your levels are up then you back off the effluent drip rate and the bubble rate to 6.7. No matter what your effluent rate, you want your reactor pH at 6.7. Anyhow and you test again in a few days to a week, and so on, and so on, and so on, until the levels remain constant.

....

Now conversely, 2 part dosing can achieve easily both level maintenance, and level raising. And it's not too hard to automate, although automation isn't necessary unless you happen to leave your tank for long periods of time and you don't want your tanksitter to worry about dosing. But due to the simplicity, a lot of people are no longer running Ca reactors (I used to, and don't anymore, and likely won't go back to it: I can use the CO2 equipment on my planted FW; and I can dose into multiple tanks whereas a Ca reactor can only be run on one tank).

[JPotter]

Thank you. My tank came with a Ca reactor so I have continued to use it. Ca and dKh seem OK but the pH runs 7.8-8 which I had thought was detrimentally low. Thus I ran it only 12 hours hoping to stop the drop to 7.8 (that didn't happen). I run my effluent into a "cup" which overflows into the sump. The cup has a pH probe that is always on and runs 6.5-6.7. I had the effulent rate constant at about 60 drops /min (double the CO2 bubble count). If the tank pH is not an issue then I should be comfortable with how things are working and just use Ca and baking soda to adjust Ca and dKh as required.
Thank you for the explaination and numbers:)

[Delphinus]

7.8 is perfectly fine, IME/IMO. Were it me in your shoes I would leave your reactor on fulltime and call it done. Sounds like it's working well for you.

FWIW, I've found that tracking pH in the tank itself to be of minimal value. (Tracking the pH in the reactor OTOH is of utmost importance. :) But the tank itself, not so much.) It doesn't really tell you anything specific, but instead is a sort of "resultant" based on other parameters which come together in concert and then forms a pH value - it's better to track those individual parameters because they tell you more - your nitrate is up, your nitrate is down, your calcium is this, your alkalinity is that .. your magnesium is such and such. And so on. I haven't bothered testing pH myself in years, except for when I've had to answer the inevitable question on forums: "What is your pH?" when asking questions on other things. :) HTH!

[Skimmerking]

Just remember the most important thing here that its a Alkalinity Reactor, and if anything that you should make sure that your alk is stable then out of any of it. your tank can get stressed out pretty quick with the ALk being unstable.