Need Electrical Ideas

[PoonTang]

After suffering a tank crash this past summer due to a corroded power bar and GFI trip I dont want to have this happen again with my new setup. What are some of the things that other people do to protect thier power bars from the corrosive enviornments we put them in?

[untamed]

You aren't going to like this answer....

1) I avoid using powerbars
2) Key pumps are on different circuits. It should take multiple failures to cause serious concern.

[fkshiu]

I agree with Brad: multiple circuits - the more, the merrier.

If you have to use powerbars, use those DJ power centers with individual switches and cover unused receptacles with those child safety things.

Also, keep all electrical bits as far away from the tank as possible and well off the floor.

[bvlester]

get a battery backup system I recamend a upc 1500 or larger and run return pump, one heater and your skimmer onit and that is all you want it to last as long as posible. I get about 2-3 hours out of mine with a new set of bateries. You could get away with out having your skimmer on this unit and everything will work for longer and if you wanted to float hot water bottles all you would need to have on this unit is the return pump which would increase the amount of time you can run the upc for. Also good for winters and power failures they kick in right away on interuption in operation of equipment. The upc also acts like a isolation transformer.
Bill

[lastlight]

Drip loops are a must.

And use black tie-wraps to keep things SEXY.

[Snaz]

get a battery backup system I recamend a upc 1500
Bill

BE VERY CAREFUL with APC/UPS as they can often cause the very problem they are supposed to prevent. Our company does network support for a well known national restaurant chain; this chain installed hundreds of APC/UPS on the networking gear(modems, switches etc.) in hopes of preventing downtime in case of power failure. Now one by one around five years after the UPS were installed they are starting to fail and when they fail the circuits they are supposed to protect are DOA resulting in prolonged downtime until the batteries are bypassed or another APC is installed. Some of these restaurants are down for 2 -3 days until another UPS/APC is shipped and installed even though the power to the restaurant is fine!

Google "failed apc ups" and you will see these things often cause power loss, exactly what they are designed to prevent.

[wickedfrags]

Not sure the size or layout of your system, or your electrical capabilities, but I would never use or recommend power bars. I don't have one in my system. Always use receptacles specific to the amperage of the circuit (15 or 20 amp being most common) and ideally locate all receptacles above the level of your water (sump) and away from splashes your main display.

Ideally use PVC receptables and conduit to run your wire through, metal can result in salt creep........unsightly and will have to be addressed eventually....my next system will incorporate all PVC receptacles and conduit becuase of the salt creep I am starting to see years after installation.


After suffering a tank crash this past summer due to a corroded power bar and GFI trip I dont want to have this happen again with my new setup. What are some of the things that other people do to protect thier power bars from the corrosive enviornments we put them in?

[sphelps]

Locate all electrical away from moisture. Either in a separate cabinet or room. Do not use power bars, GFIs or other similar safety devices on critical equipment like the return pump. Anything your tank can survive without for 24 hours is not critical.

I'm not really sure about power bars these days, they are suppose to protect equipment from surges but a couple weeks back the neutral feed to my house came loose causing all electrical to ground through the house. I have two power bars in the house, one on the computer which did nothing, the power supply burned out and had to be replaced and the other on my home theater electronics which started on fire, if I wasn't home at the time it could have been a real disaster but luckily I could it almost right away so no damage was done, well except the burnt power bar. Loose neutrals are a very common problem with overhead power lines.

[midgetwaiter]

BE VERY CAREFUL with APC/UPS as they can often cause the very problem they are supposed to prevent. Our company does network support for a well known national restaurant chain; this chain installed hundreds of APC/UPS on the networking gear(modems, switches etc.) in hopes of preventing downtime in case of power failure. Now one by one around five years after the UPS were installed they are starting to fail and when they fail the circuits they are supposed to protect are DOA resulting in prolonged downtime until the batteries are bypassed or another APC is installed. Some of these restaurants are down for 2 -3 days until another UPS/APC is shipped and installed even though the power to the restaurant is fine!


A good UPS is a continuous power UPS, this means that whatever you have plugged into runs off the batteries all the time and they are constantly recharged. This way there is no interruption, however brief, when the power goes out. Unfortunately it also means that the batteries wear out eventually, every continuous power UPS has this problem just like a laptop, cellphone or camera does. 5 years is about average.

Every UPS I can think of also has a USB or Ethernet jack so you can use the included software tools to monitor the health of the unit and test the status of the batteries. You could even get a piece of software called a SNMP server (free) that will alert you when there is an issue. If you have a problem you could maybe plug your stuff into the wall or something rather than wait 2 or 3 days.

How a national restaurant chain employs a consultant that doesn't a) know this and b) plan for it amazes me.

[mike31154]

I have a small inexpensive battery powered air pump that automatically switches on if the outlet it is plugged into loses power. This is a barebones solution that will provide some aeration in the event of power loss and should run for quite some time on the two D cell batteries. It is plugged in to my GFCI protected circuit so if there's even a nuisance trip, the pump will kick in immediately. The other bonus is you don't have to be there for it to work, which buys some time. I'm thinking of adding another one of these for added security.

I've also used my car battery with a small inverter to run critical items during a 5 hour power outage. Haven't had many of those here, but I'm thinking of getting something a little more robust just in case. I'm thinking a larger deep cycle marine battery and a slightly larger inverter. Don't have a sump, so no return pump, but when I do in the future, I don't think I'd try to run the return pump for any length of time during an outage, they tend to be power hogs and would run down any UPs or battery backup rather quickly. Besides, most of the more affordable inverters do not produce a pure sine wave which is hard on anything with a motor. All you should need is a powerhead or two for water movement (and the battery powered air pump mentioned earlier), possibly a small heater and that should keep the tank alive for 12 to 24 hours. After that, you may want to get a generator to run more equipment, such as your return pump if so equipped, a larger heater and some lighting. If your skimmer doesn't use a lot of power, that may be a good thing to run as well during a power outage.

As far as power bars, provided you buy reasonable quality ones and keep them a good distance from your tank with drip loops, they should be as safe as any other electrical equipment. Most of the good ones are rated for the same wattage as any standard electrical outlet on a 15 amp circuit. Don't overload any single bar with too much gear and you should be fine. If you do need to mount them closer to the tank, mount them upside down if possible to prevent water ingress. I see plenty of photos with people mounting a maze of electrical gear under their stands and directly above their sumps. This is a recipe for trouble unless the stuff is specifically rated for a humid environment. It doesn't matter whether a receptacle is PVC or not, power bar or otherwise without proper protection and isolation from water, the metal connections in any electrical device are prone to corrosion/salt creep over time if not sealed from humidity or located a safe distance from water to prevent ingress.

[Gizmo]

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/electrical.shtml
These work well with those powerbars that have all single cords
http://lifehacker.com/160921/powersquid-roomy-power-strip

[mike31154]

Awesome link re the greenhouse stuff, that's the kind of gear we all should be using around our tanks. A little unsightly maybe, if your tank is a focal point in a favourite room. Could be a challenge hiding those boxes.

[Snaz]

How a national restaurant chain employs a consultant that doesn't a) know this and b) plan for it amazes me.
The UPS/APC were installed long before we touched the account. We just have to deal with the angry owner when they call to say they can't do any transactions and we hear the UPS beeping like crazy in the background. All we can say is contact your IT helpdesk and replace the UPS.

[bvlester]

Hi again I have a APC/UPS the batteries in these units are suposto be changed everey 3-4 years. As they dry out from being contantly charged they are a sealed unit so you can not top them up or anything like that. A set of new batteries costs me about $120.00 every 4 years, I think that is a good deal as I get mine from the battery man. my unit will power my return pump for about 2 days. or if I have my heater on it also I can get about 6.5 hours out of it.

Bill

[midgetwaiter]

The UPS/APC were installed long before we touched the account. We just have to deal with the angry owner when they call to say they can't do any transactions and we hear the UPS beeping like crazy in the background. All we can say is contact your IT helpdesk and replace the UPS.

Oh so you're maintaining stuff you didn't deploy then? Been there, sucks doesn't it.

[PoonTang]

I have 2 generators for power outages are not a concern. I had my tank location rewired while I was waiting to get my new tank. I now have 2 dedicated 15A circuits for the tank and 4 separate GFI plugs. My plan is to run a powerbar from each GFI. Each 15A circuit will have its own powerheads and heater. Other things like ATO, Carbon reacter, Skimmer etc will all be distributed among the circuits so that if 1 circuit trips the tank will still survive. The misteak I made with my old tank was that all my electrical plugs were in my sump cabinet (warm humid enviornment) and all my life support stuff was all on the same GFI. After 2 years in the stand 1 of the power bars corroded enough to trip the GFI and the rest is...shall we say history. I was wondering about either building a moisture proof "box" for all of my plugs that went inside the stand with the sump, OR building some sort of small attractive cabinet that could go beside by stand and house all of my electronics. Anyone done anything similar for either method?

[bvlester]

I have not finished my cabinet off yet but I think I would put a fan in the top of the cabinet and a vent a on the opisit side. You can run a humidastate or just run the fan all the time one can buy small fans at princess auto for next to nothing. Very quiet and removes humidity. This way there will not be any moistur build up or corrosion. Some times its the simplest things that are the answer to the problem. resposible manufatures with high end cabinets do this for you or they use to.

Bill

[Gizmo]

Just on UPS's I use both MGE and Belkin UPS's. Good quality, fair price.
I have 1 Belkin UPS 1000 running one Dart return pump, its gone 3 hours without issue.
and a MGE Ellipse 1500 running a small heater and powerhead, again kept running for 3 hours. Check Kijiji for used ones. If the battery goes, its a relatively cheap item say from Battery World than buying a brand new one.

BTW MGE was bought by EATON, in case you google it.

[mike31154]

A little heads up on using UPS devices for running motors, i.e. return pumps. Typically the inverters in these produce a modified sine wave which is hard on anything with a motor. It is also an inefficient power source for a motor. Sure, it will work, but longer term effects may be detrimental to your AC motor run devices, depends a lot on the quality of the motor I reckon. Pure sine wave inverters are 2 to 3 times the price of a modified sine wave inverter, that's why you won't find them in most UPS units. They're primarily designed for computer equipment backup and the computer power supply ends up rectifying the AC signal anyhow, so no effect on the internals.

[lastlight]

We've all seen the displays at the science centre. Pedals hooked up to a generator. Who has an old 10-speed and some DIY? I could use the exercise too.

I think lighting the little bulb and turning on a radio tho might be easier than powering a reef!