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View Full Version : Copper Banded Butterfly...not visibly eating


JPotter
09-15-2009, 04:12 PM
I have a tank with a lot of Aptaisia:( I now also have a Copper Banded Butterfly. I saw it eat thawed frozen mysis with some enthusiasm at the LFS. It was in a tank with several other CBB and several other assorted fish. It didn't seem to be put off by others crowding about.
It is now in my main tank...has been for 3 days. At first one of the tangs insisted it only be in 1 part of the tank but now it can swim all over and the others don't seem to care...in fact it now dominates some of the others. It spends a lot of time down amongst the rock looking for who knows what..occasionally it picks at the rock surface. It also swims close to the surface looking at the water interface as if something nice might appear. I have never seen it look even vaguely interested in all that yummy aptaisia. In my tank it has no interest in mysis, krill bits, shrimp bits or fish pellets. It appears to be scouting for food, is active and interested in its surroundings..it just never seems enthusiastic about what I offer it.
I expected that if it ate at the LFS it would eat at home.
Is it possible it is picking on pods etc and simply isn't as desperately hungry as when in the LFS tank that had no rock etc.
Even if it turns out to be useless re aptaisia I would like it to thrive.

Borderjumper
09-15-2009, 04:30 PM
My copperband would only eat P and E mysis... nothing else. You might want to call the place you got it from and find out exactly what brand they were feeding.

Mine would delight in finding feather dusters.. maybe he's eating those?

Treebeard
09-15-2009, 04:31 PM
I have had two CBBs and both were eating in the store but perished within days in my tank. I give up on them. I am thinking of trying a long-nosed butterfly because I hear that sometimes they will eat aiptasia and are not as delicate.

I hope yours begins eating and munching on the pests!

naesco
09-15-2009, 05:20 PM
What you are experiencing is what most reefers who try to keep this difficult fish experience. I hope it won't but if it is not eating it will starve to death.
It is searching for food it is used to finding in the sea but is not available in your tank.
Try soaking a variety of food in garlic extreme as it acts as an appetite enhancer.

You are far better off buying peppermint shrimp to deal with aiptasia Just make sure that acclimate the shrimp for at least one hour using the drip method and turn the lights off before you add it to your tank.

subman
09-15-2009, 08:46 PM
Mine would also only eat PE mysis as well.

kooky
09-15-2009, 09:25 PM
I've had luck with all my copperbands. I start feeding them live black worms and they love because of the sworming motion of the worms when they hit the water. After a few weeks of this, i slowly switch to fozen which seem to work. Try it and see what happens.

good luck

JPotter
09-16-2009, 01:01 AM
I have tried the PE mysis which apparently they ate at the store. I will try anything I can get. Where do I get live black worms?

JPotter
09-16-2009, 01:02 AM
PS..I did buy 10 peppermint shrimp...slowly drip acclimated. I saw them around for a few weeks..aptaisia stayed and shrimp seem to have disappeared although I have seen no bodies or parts thereof.

JPotter
09-16-2009, 01:20 AM
Are live black worms marketed under any other name? I have called several LFS in the area and they seem to have no idea what I am asking for. Years ago I had fresh water tanks and would feed live blood worms..are they one in the same?

fkshiu
09-16-2009, 01:20 AM
Get a small clam from the supermarket, crack it open a bit and wedge it in the live rock.

globaldesigns
09-16-2009, 01:28 AM
I to had 2 Copperbands, they ate, but couldn't get them to live longer than a month or so... I also gave up on them.

If you have aptasia, I hear that it is also hit or miss if they even eat them... I would recommend trying Tailored Aquatics Aptasia Destroyer. This is what I use and kills them in one shot, without an impact on the tank. Red Coral (Calgary) has it, and I think it is only $18

kooky
09-16-2009, 01:49 AM
Hi,

Yes, they are the same live black worms that fresh water feeds.

PoonTang
09-16-2009, 03:07 AM
Get some live clams from superstore. Feed them 1 or 2 a day but cut the little muscle that closes the shell first. Store the rest in the fridge. After a couple of weeks fill up 1 of the clam shells with mysis and feed. Then try the free floating mysis. I also had a small piece of Live Rock that i drilled a few holes into and stuffed them with mysis etc. The CB loved it and it kept the other fish away from the food too.

JPotter
09-16-2009, 05:53 AM
Thank you for everyone's great advice. I had easy access to clams/mussels and found Graham at Noah's Ark (fresh water LFS) keeps black blood worms. He remained open so I could get them tonight..which I did. When I got home I was horrified to see the poor wee fish floundering next a power head. One of its pectoral fins was shredded:( It was terribly disoriented and even though I isolated it, turned off the lights and power heads it still passed away. Interestingly it did not feel emaciated..not fat like my other fish..but a reasonable body score.
Do LFS ever allow you to purchase a fish and then "board" it there until you are certain it is eating well in the long term and it is over the initial stress of capture, shipping and adjusting to the LFS? Can you ever purchase well adjusted aptaisia eating CBB from other reefers in your area?
I really need to have the aptaisia gone as it is all over and most of the live rock has corals attached directly to the rock. I did take out 2 small pieces of rock and cooked them in RO water...only to find that within 3 weeks more aptaisia was on them:(

There are also baby ones in one of my 30 gal tanks even though I don't share equipment between tanks.

Doug
09-16-2009, 12:45 PM
They are called Manila clams at Superstore. I split them in half and put the half piece on a veggie clip, attached to a thin but long pvc pipe I once used for nori. This made for easy retrieval.

All the other fish use to line up for clams bits falling off from the copperband eating. Pics of them eating from the clip are on here somewhere.

Myka
09-16-2009, 01:23 PM
Sorry to hear about your CBB. Unfortunately, this happens to a very large number of CBBs as they are very sensitive to begin with, but also because they are widely known to be one of the most common species caught with cyanide which will eventually kill the fish.

For aiptasia, I have always found that persistent manual treatment with Joe's Juice or Kalk paste will eliminate them. The trick is to turn off all pumps, and be sure to give each aiptasia a shot right in the centre of it's head. If you get it right it will turn black.

rayjay
09-16-2009, 02:33 PM
As all of my fish are treated with hypo in a quarantine tank, I brought my copperband home and placed it in quarantine, feeding live brine shrimp (wasn't eating at the LFS) until I was sure he was doing well. At this point I introduced frozen brine as well as live and kept doing this but once he started eating frozen I gradually weened him off the live.
After the 7 weeks in hypo treatment, I added him to one of my reef tanks at night after lights out, and moved a couple of rocks around to confuse the powder blue a bit.
Haven't had any problem since, and no aptaisia in that tank either.
My other tanks had no room for an extra fish like a CB, so I nuked the aptaisia with hydrochloric acid in a hypodermic needle.
I've been a lot of years now with no sign of any of them.
I tried pep. shrimp but they wouldn't touch anything but the very small ones.

JPotter
09-16-2009, 03:45 PM
I did ask the LFS about putting the CBB into a smaller quiet tank with lower light and flow to start with and they said no need..go figure. What is a hypo Tx?
Does HCl significantly decrease the water pH?
I have been picking away at the aptaisia..they go black with grey filaments and when I twirl the syringe with 20g x1" needle around the aptaisia remains adhere to it for removal. I have also used aptaisia paste..I have no kalk to make a paste with..it goes on as a thick film and the rock beneath also bleaches out. The problem is my tank is deep and I have lots of live rock that I can't reach and many surfaces I can't even see.
I will continue to pick away at it. Also will consider another go with CBB trying a smaller, quieter tank to start and the tips others have so kindly shared..I will wait a bit as am upset over the loss. If they are catching with cyanide a large number will be doomed whatever I do...they will be able to tick along for a while but cellular comproise will continue to progress for some time. I guess they have it down to an art...capture live, ship live, get to LFS live and stay alive long enough to make the sale:(
I will likely order some kalk (plus Ca and Mg) from littlesilvermax. Is there any recipe for the kalk paste or do you just mix it with H2O to make a slurry?
Thx again

rayjay
09-16-2009, 07:04 PM
Hypo = hyposalinity= lowering the s.g.
HCl can reduce the alkalinity and then the pH so I only zapped four or five at a time.
I tried kalk paste and vinegar before that and they kept coming back.
Quarantine tank allows it to get comfortable after the stress of shipping to the LFS from where it was caught, and, allows for no competition for food so it will eat well over the quarantine period and build up it's strength for the next challenge, to place it in the show tank.
LFS saying not needed but if it dies then you need to make more profit for them by purchasing another one.

fkshiu
09-16-2009, 08:08 PM
Is there any recipe for the kalk paste or do you just mix it with H2O to make a slurry?
Thx again

The more kalk you mix with water, the more potent the slurry will be. But at the same time the you will be affecting pH more so use judiciously and carefully. I like using the precision tips and syringes from old Salifert test kits to apply the slurry. You need a needle point to make sure the aiptasia injests the kalk. I've been using this method along with peppermints for years quite successfully (knock on wood!).

dan4cbw
09-18-2009, 01:17 AM
In the last few years the Blackworm Farms have dwindled down to two. All Blackworms are farmed by either Aquatic Foods or another California supplier.
Contrary to what is being told out there, there are only two Blackworm farms and both are in California

Here are some pics of the Blackworm Farm.


The first pic is of our three production ponds


http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/images/cbw.jpg


The 2nd is our main harvesting pond. Worms
from the production ponds are moved to the
harvesting pond for 30 days.

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/images/cbw2.jpg

This photo is of our guys harvesting the Blackworms.

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/images/cbw3.jpg


This photo is of our cement purging pond.
Here we leave them for 5-7 days in a bare bottom
cement pond. ( no food allowed)

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/images/cbw4.jpg

This photo is of our indoor falicity. Here we clean a 2nd and 3rd
time. What you see in this pic are 30 100-120 lb holding
tanks. We hold the cleaned worms here for 7-10 days.
Then transport them to our Airport wharehouse where they
are held and chilled down to 40-45 degrees and then shipped
via Fed Ex or out of Los Angeles airport.

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/images/cbw5.jpg


Anyone with any questions about our Blackworms
feel free to email to blkworm@aol.com

Dan
http://aquaticfoods.com/Blackworms.html

naesco
09-18-2009, 01:33 AM
Dan, thanks for posting this interesting information.