Live Rock/Base Rock Question

[Eb0la11]

Hey guys,

ok so I have a mixture of rock here that Im wanting to get into my system.

I have about 20 lbs of dry rock that was in a fellow reefers system about 5 months ago. This rock had aiptasia on it and has been drying out for those 5 months. Yesterday I sprayed it down pretty good and scrubbed it a bit to get off loose particles and some old dried out aiptasia.

Next I have some live rock I bought from a reefer about a month ago. Its been in a rubbermaid tub with a lid on it to prevent any evaporation as well as a heater and powerhead circulating the water. I have about 30 lbs of this.

Lastly I have some rock I bought from Gold's aquarium and also a piece from Pisces. In total here I have about 22 lbs. These are fully cured I suppose.


So my question is mostly pertaining to the dry base rock that had aiptasia on it, do you guys think, now that Ive cleaned it off, that I should just add to my system right now with all the other rock? This is a brand new system, this is the first rock going in and its basically going to start my cycle. So should I put in that dry stuff now or should I put it into the rubbermaid for a bit first (maybe a couple weeks?) to leach out any other nutrients it still may have on it and then into the display?

Thanks!

[Myka]

If I were you I would put the dry rock into a separate Rubbermaid and cook it for several weeks to get all the nutrients out of it. It will leach a lot of nutrients having been dried out, and it will take quite a while to flush it all out of the rock.

[Eb0la11]

Ok, and so when I add it to my display after cooking it, will it cause the tank to endure another mini cycle or what do you think? I am hoping my cycle of the DT will be done by that time, but I cant say for sure I guess?

Say I have my CUC in there once this dried rock is done cooking, it wont hurt them will it?

[Eb0la11]

Also, whats the difference in cooking old LR in regular old tap water compared to salt water? Nutrients would still leach out wouldnt they? Does anyone do this? Its not like it has anything valuable on there Im trying to preserve, Im just stripping it down to its bare rock essentials... no?

[Myka]

You could cook dried out rock in tap water. Are you using tap water for the tank? If you are using RO water for the tank you should cook in RO water at least though since you will probably contaminate the rock with heavy metals and organics from the tap water. However, it would be wise to finish the cooking with saltwater for the last couple weeks to get the saltwater well flushed into the rock, once you do that add a few pieces of cured "real" live rock to seed the previously dead stuff with bacteria and oter life forms. If you cook the rock properly, and don't have the rock out of the tank long when transfering into the display you will not create a cycle.

[Eb0la11]

Ok sweet, I can handle all of that. I'll cook it in RO since thats whats in my display. Right now its in the same water the live rock from one of the fellow reefers was in. So I'll leave it in that for like a week then go back to RO so I dont have to waste salt. Then for at least a week or two at the end it'll be back in salt with a seeded rock from the DT like you said. Thanks Myka!

[Myka]

You're welcome. Have fun with your Rubbermaid tubs...I have three going right now - driving me nuts! :p

[Eb0la11]

So I got another question lol. Ok so keep in mind this is my first ever start from scratch tank, including my fresh water days. Ive always had some kind of seeded bacteria (such as in a filter or whatever) for FW, so Ive never gone through a brand new cycle really. Only small ones when I add stuff to the tank.

So yesterday I put in my live rock. You can see what kind of live rock I have up above.

I only put in LR 'B' and 'C' from that list. LR 'A' is curing for several weeks Ive decided.

Soooo, I feel like I have good LR that has been well preserved and doesnt have much die off because today I took a reading for the first time (roughly 24 hrs after putting the LR in my tanK) and right now my ammonia level is zero and my nitrite level is zero as well. Nitrate is miniscule as well at between 5-10 ppm.

So obviously I have some denitrifying bacteria on my LR already. So my question is, do I have a bigger release of nutrients on the way that will cause a big cycle? I mean I thought I'd be experiencing it in my test levels by now. Am I foolish to be "dreaming" that I can add my CUC two days after adding my LR to a brand new system?

[Myka]

IMO, wait until you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite for a full week. You may not actually get much or any cycle using cured rock. Don't ever add a CUC unless there is something for them to eat. Also, do not fall for the 1 snail/hermit per gallon trick. I have 7 Astrea snails, 2 Emerald crabs, 2 small fighting conches, and Stomatellas snails breed on their own in my 90 gallon tank to give you an idea of what you're looking for. If you can find someone who has stomatella snails that you can get 2 or 3 from they will breed. My tank started with only 2, and now has many. They are great because their numbers will decline or increase with the amount of available food.

[PoonTang]

You can also introduce ammonia to your system and cause it to cycle to increase your bacteria population. Throw 1 uncooked table shrimp into your tank and let it rot. Now take your readings and it is ready when everything reaches 0 again. You can wait to do this until you add your last pieces of rock that you are cooking. Then sit back and wait for a week or so at least. Some people wait 2-4 months.

[SmallFry]

Also, do not fall for the 1 snail/hermit per gallon trick. .

+1

Myka warned me about this one when I started my tank off. Good thing - if I'd gone with the recommendations of 1 per gallon I'm sure they'd have been starving to death in no time.

If you're thinking of turbo snails I'd be very conservative in the numbers - I can tell you from experience (I used to have a big algae problem) that given a chance a zebra turbo snail can eat a truly mindboggling amount of algae.

Was kinda cool though - every time I left for work I'd look in the tank and there'd be another big bright white patch on the rocks.

Rob.

[Eb0la11]

IMO, wait until you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite for a full week. You may not actually get much or any cycle using cured rock. Don't ever add a CUC unless there is something for them to eat. Also, do not fall for the 1 snail/hermit per gallon trick...

Too bad you dont live in Calgary I was going to suggest I come grab a couple off you! :p

You can also introduce ammonia to your system and cause it to cycle to increase your bacteria population. Throw 1 uncooked table shrimp into your tank and let it rot. Now take your readings and it is ready when everything reaches 0 again. You can wait to do this until you add your last pieces of rock that you are cooking. Then sit back and wait for a week or so at least. Some people wait 2-4 months.

Ahhh, the old fishless cycle trick. Good idea actually. Wouldnt there be some ammonia on my cured rock, even if only a small amount? Maybe I'll try something like this just to see how strong my denitrifying bacteria is.

Thanks for the help guys. I'll keep checking levels and be sure to introduce some extra ammonia just in case my live rock isnt really producing any. Though there are also two crabs in my tank that hitch hiked. One's body is half the size of a dime the other the size of a quarter so they are definitely producing some.

I'll have to research my CUC a bit more. I was thinking snails, hermits (even though some people dont like them), probably 2-3 emerald crabs, some brittle stars and perhaps one tiger tail cucumber.

Only thing is Im not sure what kind of snail. Ive researched in the past and "thought" turbo snails were destructive, often knocking over corals (which seems like a sort of small problem to me) What snails should I stay away from?

[SmallFry]

Apparently bumblebee snails are carnivorous and will go for other snails (found out after I bought two). Having said that I must have the laziest pair in the world - if they even move I mark it on the calendar...

I'm only FOWLR at the moment (will change when the bigger tank/better light/better skimmer come on line) so haven't had any real problems with the turbos. They do charge around the tank rather so I can see the potential for destruction though. Seriously, one minute you can't find one, the next there's one slap bang in the middle of the front glass - kinda freaks me out :biggrin:

I have a couple of small blue legged hermits too, which haven't been a problem, and are great entertainment - they're crazy and always up to something. I made sure they had plenty of spare shells so they can move house whenever they want. From what I hear, I get the impression that it's when they get hungry or can't find the right shell they start to cause problems..

[Eb0la11]

Ya I hear the same thing about hermits. I think I might just have to try a bit of a mix of snails and find out for myself. I mean, they are cheap, so worst case scenario, I buy one, dont like it and return it or give it to another reefer or something.

I'll prob go buy my CUC this weekend if my params are still 0-0-10 or so which should signify my cycle is done.

[PoonTang]

Ya I hear the same thing about hermits. I think I might just have to try a bit of a mix of snails and find out for myself. I mean, they are cheap, so worst case scenario, I buy one, dont like it and return it or give it to another reefer or something.

I'll prob go buy my CUC this weekend if my params are still 0-0-10 or so which should signify my cycle is done.

Actually a tank is never truly finished cycling. It is forever trying to balance itself according to the daily bioload placed upon it. Your cured rock may or may not give off ammonia at the start, it depends on how much dieoff there was during the transfer. The reason I suggested that you use a dead shrimp is that it will give off ammonia as it rots and thus will supply your tank with a SOURCE of ammonia. Your tank will respond by increasing the population of denitrifying bacteria. Once you have a large enough population of bacteria then you are ready to add your permanent source of ammonia....Fish. If you dont have enough ammonia at the start of your cycle then you wont have enough bacteria to keep the levels in check when you add your fish.