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View Full Version : T.A. Nitrate Destroyer experiences?/Vodka dosing questions


fishoholic
08-28-2009, 02:31 AM
Does anyone have any experiences with T.A. (Tailored Aquatics) Nitrate Destroyer? I started using it 12 days ago and so far it doesn't seem to be doing much.

Lance I read that you were using it, and I think Tony has used it? How did it work for you? When did you start to notice it was helping? Did it help?

It's only been 12 days for me but I have almost used up the whole bottle (dosing 500g it goes quick) just wondering if it's worth it to continue or not.

We try to do a 10% water change every week but there are weeks we fall a bit behind by a few days, and with our nitrates being high I was hoping that the T.A. Nitrate Destroyer would help.

i have crabs
08-28-2009, 02:37 AM
i found it did work but was too costly on a large tank to be worth it, i went back to large waterchanges, another one i tried i think was called no-no3 and it seemed to work better

fishoholic
08-28-2009, 03:47 AM
i found it did work but was too costly on a large tank to be worth it, i went back to large waterchanges, another one i tried i think was called no-no3 and it seemed to work better

Ya, I'm finding on a large tank it's going to be fairly costly, although probably not much more then what I'll have to spend on salt. I'm thinking a few fairly large water changes should help. Unfortunately I don't have a mixing tank larger then 100g and to fill that I'll have to use tap water and prime. Even then a 100g water change is still only 20% :neutral: I love having 2 large tanks all plumbed together except for when it comes to dosing and water changes :twised:

chandigz
08-29-2009, 03:49 AM
I was asked to test this product before market but I never really had any detectable nitrate to test it on. If I remember right, I believe it takes about 3 weeks(once full daily dose strength is reached) to really start seeing results. I know a lot of people personally that have had great results Send Brad "Tailored Aquatics" a PM. He is a great guy and I'm sure he would be happy to answer any of your questions.

Myka
08-29-2009, 01:15 PM
Take a sniff of that stuff...smells like....a garlic shot?? That`s because that`s pretty much what it is. Vodka with garlic to cover up the smell of the watered down vodka. For cheaper benefits, try vodka dosing instead. :D

fishoholic
08-29-2009, 01:57 PM
Take a sniff of that stuff...smells like....a garlic shot?? That`s because that`s pretty much what it is. Vodka with garlic to cover up the smell of the watered down vodka. For cheaper benefits, try vodka dosing instead. :D

That's kinda what I figured it was. I want to try vodka dosing, but my boyfriend is a bit leery of it. Maybe if I research vodka dosing a bit more I can find some info that will put his mind at ease. Anyone know any good vodka dosing links? or what type of vodka is better to use then others?

chandigz thanks for the info. I believe you're right T.A. Nitrate Destroyer would take a few weeks before seeing results, and I have heard from others that it works. Unfortunately with such a large system it isn't very cost effective.

lorenz0
08-29-2009, 02:40 PM
ya its basically vodca dosing. if you read the instructions its the same method used. has worked for me and alge has gone down.

personally i am happy with all the products and the only other stuff i pour in is from KZ

Lance
08-29-2009, 05:11 PM
[QUOTE=fishoholic;444255]That's kinda what I figured it was. I want to try vodka dosing, but my boyfriend is a bit leery of it. Maybe if I research vodka dosing a bit more I can find some info that will put his mind at ease. Anyone know any good vodka dosing links? or what type of vodka is better to use then others?



Here you are: www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

fishoholic
08-29-2009, 06:01 PM
Here you are: www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Thanks Lance

steveg
08-29-2009, 09:28 PM
Hi there, I have an inkling that a question I asked in a different manner is related to this, I recently started a thread called "life of live rock", I received some interesting replies and one in particular that is worth considering as it is directly related to Nitrates.

As I understand it the purpose of feeding the tank with Vodka or ethanol is to provide a "food source" to stimluate the growth of nitrate reducing bacteria, is it therefore also worth considering the possibility of adding more bacteria? I believe that there are solutions of bacteria available for this purpose.

i have crabs
08-29-2009, 11:38 PM
for your size system if your having nitrate issues id spend the $400-700 or whatever to buy a sulfer reactor/bio denitrator and im shure that would keep them low enough that regular waterchanges would have you under control.
i tried a bunch of different things to keep my nitrates down and i probably spent just as much as if i bought the dam biodenitrator so i would just do it, in 6 months of 200g waterchanges that money will be gone down the drain anyway

Myka
08-30-2009, 12:21 AM
^^^ That's a thought. How bad are the nitrates anyway?

fishoholic
08-30-2009, 02:21 PM
for your size system if your having nitrate issues id spend the $400-700 or whatever to buy a sulfer reactor/bio denitrator and im shure that would keep them low enough that regular waterchanges would have you under control.
i tried a bunch of different things to keep my nitrates down and i probably spent just as much as if i bought the dam biodenitrator so i would just do it, in 6 months of 200g waterchanges that money will be gone down the drain anyway

Excellent point, I have never heard of a sulfer reactor/bio denitrator. I will have to read up on them and look into where I can find one and how much they cost. Thank-you for the info. do you know of a certain brand of one that is better then another?

^^^ That's a thought. How bad are the nitrates anyway?

Fairly bad :redface:

i have crabs
08-30-2009, 02:49 PM
http://www.marinedepot.com/Korallin_BioDenitrator_w_Eheim_1048_Pump_Bio_Denit rators_Nitrate_Reactors-Korallin-KL9111K-FIFRISDN-vi.html

there basicy a converted calcium reactor, i did a bunch of reading and i was ganna buy this one, detlec also makes one that apparently works well aso but has the deltec price attached

fishoholic
08-30-2009, 04:51 PM
http://www.marinedepot.com/Korallin_BioDenitrator_w_Eheim_1048_Pump_Bio_Denit rators_Nitrate_Reactors-Korallin-KL9111K-FIFRISDN-vi.html

there basicy a converted calcium reactor, i did a bunch of reading and i was ganna buy this one, detlec also makes one that apparently works well aso but has the deltec price attached

Cool, thanks for the link

Treebeard
08-30-2009, 05:37 PM
I have been using Nitrate Destroyer for two weeks. Kind of pi$$ed to find out I paid $30 for 946ml of garlic flavored vodka. :frown: I guess I will keep up with it for though.

So far I have not seen a noticeable drop in nitrates which are still hanging around 25 ppm. I have reduced my feedings of frozen food to twice per week and I am doing weekly water changes. I am constantly scrubbing hair algae off the rocks and powerheads and blasting the rocks with a turkey baster.

I am thinking of upgrading to a larger skimmer now. I currently have a Euroreef RS80 and thinking of getting a Vertex IN-180. I have about 120 gallons total water volume.

JDigital
08-30-2009, 09:06 PM
I have been using Nitrate Destroyer for two weeks. Kind of pi$$ed to find out I paid $30 for 946ml of garlic flavored vodka. :frown: I guess I will keep up with it for though..

That's a tough one to swallow... would be better off just starting the Vodka Dosing regiment. :wink:

o.c.d.
08-31-2009, 01:17 AM
Take a sniff of that stuff...smells like....a garlic shot?? That`s because that`s pretty much what it is. Vodka with garlic to cover up the smell of the watered down vodka. For cheaper benefits, try vodka dosing instead. :D
I asked the Taliored Aquatic guy a while ago what the difference between Vodka and his product was and he replied buy reading what was on the bottle Bla bla, polyp extension, bla bla. Dancing around the question and never saying it is or has vodka in it. Last time a LFS tried to sell me it I asked to see their liquor license.

Tailored Aquatics
08-31-2009, 04:16 AM
Hey Guys,
I just read the thread and thought I’d pipe in…
Thanks to all of you how have tried or are trying the product currently, im sure you will have great results, as many many others have. Nitrate Destroyer does take a few weeks or more of solid dosing to see its full results. By about week three your skimmer will start to work harder pulling a fairly light colored skim; this is when nitrate reduction really starts so make sure skimmers are clean and working at their best.
As for what is in the bottle… well that is a trade secret, just as some water conditioners don’t state their ingredients either. What I can tell you, as I have stated before there is no brand (good one or bad one) of Vodka in this product. There are multiple carbon sources in Nitrate Destroyer, none meant for human consumption, one of which is Ethanol based. Nitrate Destroyer contains no sugars, glucose or yeast but it does contain garlic. Why garlic? No not to cover the smell of Vodka that isn’t in there in the first place :razz:… It’s because garlic is known in the industry as an appetite stimulant for fish; through studies I’ve found the same thing is true for corals, so what better way to have the corals in you system feed on the bacteria we are creating with this product?...garlic .
Feel free to ask any more questions, I’ll give you this link which may answer a few more as well http://www.tailoredaquatics.com/index.html?a=0&d=63
-Brad/Tailored Aquatics

fishoholic
08-31-2009, 04:24 AM
Hey Guys,
I just read the thread and thought I’d pipe in…
Thanks to all of you how have tried or are trying the product currently, im sure you will have great results, as many many others have. Nitrate Destroyer does take a few weeks or more of solid dosing to see its full results. By about week three your skimmer will start to work harder pulling a fairly light colored skim; this is when nitrate reduction really starts so make sure skimmers are clean and working at their best.
As for what is in the bottle… well that is a trade secret, just as some water conditioners don’t state their ingredients either. What I can tell you, as I have stated before there is no brand (good one or bad one) of Vodka in this product. There are multiple carbon sources in Nitrate Destroyer, none meant for human consumption, one of which is Ethanol based. Nitrate Destroyer contains no sugars, glucose or yeast but it does contain garlic. Why garlic? No not to cover the smell of Vodka that isn’t in there in the first place :razz:… It’s because garlic is known in the industry as an appetite stimulant for fish; through studies I’ve found the same thing is true for corals, so what better way to have the corals in you system feed on the bacteria we are creating with this product?...garlic .
Feel free to ask any more questions, I’ll give you this link which may answer a few more as well http://www.tailoredaquatics.com/index.html?a=0&d=63
-Brad/Tailored Aquatics

Thanks for chiming in. I do believe it's a good product that will work given the proper time, unfortunately it's not very cost effective for my system which is 500g in total.

Tailored Aquatics
08-31-2009, 04:44 AM
That Is a huge system ...I agree. Once Nitrates are zero, a maintenance dose(the "week one" dose on bottle) would mean approx 30mls or less in 500gallons per day to maintain zero nitrates. It is available in very large sizes which make it quite cost efficient. The one gallon size would treat 500 gallons of water for nearly 6 months reducing the cost significantly per month or per 500ml bottle depending on how you look at it.
-Brad

fishoholic
08-31-2009, 05:00 AM
That Is a huge system ...I agree. Once Nitrates are zero, a maintenance dose(the week one dose on bottle) would mean approx 30mls or less in 500gallons per day to maintain zero nitrates. It is available in very larger sizes which make it quite cost efficient. The one gallon size would treat 500 gallons of water for nearly 6 months reducing the cost significantly per month or per 500ml bottle depending on how you look at it.
-Brad

Didn't know it came in that large a size. Hummmm......

Treebeard
08-31-2009, 05:16 AM
No wodka? Crap! I'm on my sixth harvey wallbanger! :drinking:

Hey Guys,
No not to cover the smell of Vodka that isn’t in there in the first place :razz:… http://www.tailoredaquatics.com/index.html?a=0&d=63
-Brad/Tailored Aquatics

Tailored Aquatics
08-31-2009, 05:35 AM
Didn't know it came in that large a size. Hummmm......
Yes, most of the products like Calcium Plus, dKH Plus, Magnesium MG and Nitrate Destroyer come in one gallon sizes.
I even have dealers that order 5 gallon size buckets of products!

Tailored Aquatics
08-31-2009, 05:35 AM
No wodka? Crap! I'm on my sixth harvey wallbanger! :drinking:

lol...to funny :mrgreen:

o.c.d.
08-31-2009, 02:30 PM
A Mr. Tailored Aquatics, So it being a trade secret I understand you can't give it up. But your Carbon source is just that a carbon source.Now yours is better, proof would help. Surely you have tested your product against other carbon sources. Would that data be a trade secret or a good selling feature? I think anyone who understands the chemistry involved to do what Vodka,Nitrate destroyer, and other carbon sources can achieve, would understand that Vodka is cheaper, more concentrated, and will essentially do the same thing. IMO all you have done is provided instructions on how to use your diluted carbon source.

sphelps
08-31-2009, 02:56 PM
Just wanted to note that DIY methods are always cheaper, baking soda for example is way cheaper than any buffer but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy buffers off the shelf. Some off us aren't chemists and dosing vodka may not be in there comfort zone. If I was going to go this route I would either dose a store bought product or lab grade ethenol.

naesco
08-31-2009, 04:38 PM
Just wanted to note that DIY methods are always cheaper, baking soda for example is way cheaper than any buffer but that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy buffers off the shelf. Some off us aren't chemists and dosing vodka may not be in there comfort zone. If I was going to go this route I would either dose a store bought product or lab grade ethenol.

Or simply do water changes and live with a little nitrate which does no harm.

Wayne Ryan

fencer
08-31-2009, 07:54 PM
Don't forget that Zeo and Ultra systems are based on nitrate reduction by bacteria also. Their programs are a little more systematic. I have used vodka to reduce nitrates (10 ml/100g/day) and it has worked. It was more to feed my SPS than for the latter. In case of Fishoholic's tanks...a massive cheato scrubber would be better. In the long run it is way cheaper. I like ozone(...yeah I know you don't steve)

Oceanic
08-31-2009, 11:39 PM
or simply do water changes and live with a little nitrate which does no harm.

Wayne ryan

+1

Treebeard
09-01-2009, 02:08 PM
Please define a "little nitrate".

Or simply do water changes and live with a little nitrate which does no harm.

Wayne Ryan

Myka
09-02-2009, 02:13 AM
I think Christie has more than "a little nitrate" otherwise she wouldn't be so worried about it. IMO, a little nitrate is 5 ppm. Some people would say up to 20 ppm, but that just would not do in my tank. I can't stand being able to get any detectable nitrate reading for my reef.

In all honesty, I don't think there is much difference from one vendor's carbon source to another's. However, there are those of us who DO want that little bit of difference. Depends which bandwagon you're on. I am actually considering vodka/ethanol dosing, not for nitrate and phosphate control though, but for SPS carbon food source, and mainly just interest. :D On that note, I think there is often a difference between raw ingredient products and reef formulated products. I have always found that reef buffer formulas work better than baking soda for alkalinity dosing. I can't explain why. I don't understand why. :lol:

Brad (Tailored Aquatics), really there is not a lot of difference between vodka and ethanol. They are cousins...maybe brothers even. Either way, both are forms of alcohol and are carbon sources. Both are effective, with ethanol probably being a "safer" choice because of its purity. I was hoping you would reply on here. Seriously though, your product smells like alcohol. "If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, then it probably is a duck." :p

Ian
09-02-2009, 02:41 AM
i have read and re-read Tailored Aquatics 1st post in this thread and it would seem that while he stated no vodka is in the product Ethanol may stil be a primary ingredient as he never stated that this is not in it. If this is the case then it is likely a pure ETOH source being used along with some additional carbon sources.
What would stop a person from sourcing a 90% or better ETOH adding in a significant amount of garlic and having a very comparible product that is much cheaper.... everclear is 95% and readily available.....

Tailored Aquatics
09-02-2009, 04:21 AM
Hey guys, sorry for the delay in posting. I have been crazy busy lately! Lots of good things going on with TA these days. Myka, yes you are correct vodka does contain a form of ethanol. It has very similar chains of molecules compared to some of the lab grades of carbon (not only ethanol) used for Nitrate Destroyer. What is different about Nitrate Destroyer (and Ian just touched on this) is has multiple carbons sources. Some research articles suggest these multiple food sources may help to grow multiple different strains of bacteria instead of a mono culture of bacteria from just one carbon source. Are multiple sources better?? Well there are people on both sides of that fence I'm sure, I believe the multiple sources that I've chosen work very well together. I also believe zero nitrates are zero nitrates how ever you get there!
PS. over 5ppm NO3 is to high IMO for an SPS tank but I can think of a few corals that do better in higher nitrates...so I guess it depends what sort of system your going for.
Brad

cchomistek
09-02-2009, 04:28 AM
This is coming from a guy who makes Vodka for a living, smirnoff vodka to be exact. I work in Lethbridge at a distillery and to say that vodka is not ethanol is completely not correct. All vodka is, is Ethanol that comes straight off the stills at 96% and diluted with RO Water to 40%(the RO Water happens to be the same RO water I use for my salt water tank). The only difference in using 40% vodka and say Everclear which is basically Ethanol straight off the still and bottled is the addition of RO Water to dilute it. So I would say for vodka dosing to have more control I would use the dilute kind, you would need a little more but if you dump in a bit too much then it wouldn't have as drastic an effect.

fencer
09-02-2009, 04:47 AM
Hey
Can we get a discount on a case of Smirnoff...you know just for dosing purposes;)
It is sort of true that monocultures do develop, But that is because eventually one species of bacteria can use the source more efficently and out grow/compete with the other bugs. Multiple carbon source may work for a while but eventually you will get one species dominant and the same effect.