can someone give me advice on setting up a herbie overflow

[megs_clark]

I recently bought a 72g bowfront and want to have it drilled. I can bring it to aquatic addictions for drilling @ $25 a hole and they will do the overflow for $45, But Dan is not that familier he said with herbie overflows. So i was hoping for some advice, I want to put in two drains to the sump, the main drain and the emergency drain. And 2 return drains? I tried googling this for hours but not many diagrams with single overflows. My question is where is the best place to have the holes to the sump drilled, in the corner or center, and should i have all 4 holes drilled the same size? I read to either get 1 1/2 inch bulkheads or do 1 inch bulkheads and use 1 1/2 piping. Is it hard to silacone your own overflow in, should i just get them to do it. I also read silicone doesnt work well with acrylic, so was wondering what one uses to attach a overflow box to the glass tank. And last does anyone have any pictures of their herbie style overflow with a single overflow i could see, or any good sites with pictures. I see alot of talking about it but not to many pictures? Any help would help :O) Hoping to drill it this weekend
Also do i need 2 returns or can i get one and just use a couple korelias for more flow in the tank

[mark]

here's diagram fr rban on RC but the concept is rather simple, two holes. The Overflow chamber can be internal or external.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/rbarn_herbie.jpg

The diagram shows the main drain coming into the side of the sump but it doesn't have to be. Use a gate valve rather than a ball.

As for drilling the sump, assume your planning an external pump. Think how you're planning on placing the return pump and laying out the sump, that will give on idea where to drill. For the overflow chamber, if internal could just have a diaginal in the corner.

For the overflow, make it from glass and so you don't have to worry about the silicone not holding, can line with a thin sheet of dark acrylic.

If going 1" primary drain, can flow about 600gph, 1.5" close to 1200gph and that's a fair bit for a return on a 72g. Often for additional flow within the display, people do power heads or CL.

[xtreme]

Only thing with that drawing is I would switch the ball valve out for a gate valve. Otherwise that should give you the idea.

[megs_clark]

perfect, will do that and make sure i use a gate valve, thanks

[Myka]

If you want a gate valve and other plumbing for unbeatable prices order from www.bulkreefsupply.com (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com) they have a great shipping policy too so you don't get surprise bills afterwards.

If I were you I would drill both drains for 1" bulkheads. They are good for 600 gph, which you wouldn't even want that much in a 72 anyway. I wouldn't drill a return, just run it up and over the edge. Since doing it this way on my 90 I doubt there will be a future that I will drill another return.

Also, your return is not considered to be any sort of considerable flow. In fact, your return isn't even counted towards your turnover when discussing flow in your tank. You should have about 5-6x turnover through the sump for maximum efficiency, and low risk for microbubbles making their way to your display. You use powerheads for flow.

[megs_clark]

Thanks Myka, I took your advice and am on that site right now and looks great, they even have overflows lol. I was thinking if i put in a glass overflow i still need to cut the glass for the water to flow through, hmmm, not sure how to do that. Thanks for the tip on not drilling for the returns. Save me a little money that i could put toward a couple powerheads. Im torn now on just buying a bit to drill the glass ourselfs, my husband has never done it before. I thought the bits were expencive but their sure cheap on that site. Got me thinking now, lol, Myka have you ever drilled a whole, is it hard or basic, hes usualy handy like that, lol. Whats your opinion. Crazy how things add up so fast. I just want to make sure i do it right. OH one more thing their were gate valves on the site that come apart for cleaning for $30 or that are one piece ( cant take apart to clean) for $20. Will i need to take it apart to clean.

[Myka]

Oh, I forgot about your overflow question...for DIY overflows you can get glass cut for it, and then silicone some black acrylic to the tank side of the overflow so you can't see in. You can't just silicone an acrylic overflow in because as you've heard it doesn't work perfectly, and you need that overflow to be 100% water tight or you will have a big flood when the power goes out. If your overflow has a straight top (no teeth) you can use eggcrate siliconed to the top for the water to flow through. If you need some pics of all this my tank is done like this and I could take some pics tomorrow when the lights are on...same with the Herbie.

Holes are easy to drill...you could always practise on a spcrap piece of glass before you try the tank. The biggest challenge is holding the bit in the right spot while you start it. You always have to start on a bit of an angle too, get it going a bit and slowly get it all th way around. I always drill outside and use the hose turned on the bit, you have to drill wet, not dry. Oh, and go slow! A 1" hole will easily take 15 minutes of drilling or more. I have bits from BRS, and they work well, but they are cheap because they are only good for maybe 10 holes or so.

I personally put out the extra few bucks for the Spears gate valve because being able to clean it really helps once the tank has been up and running for a year or more. It's worth the extra bucks.

[patpare]

And when your drilling your hole make sure to put a piece of masking tape on the inside,so that when you go trough the glass the cut out doesn't fall and smash your front glass(that sucks trust me:sad:).
If you cant run a steady flow of water when cutting,you could build a water dam with playdoo fill half way with water

[megs_clark]

Awsome. Woohooo, Im excited about getting this done. Sounds like shipping is pritty decent time wise. Totaly excited about us doing the holes. I imagine their will be more tanks to come in the future that ill want drilled, :O) I will definilty go for the valve that comes apart like you said. Probably get alot of salt build up over time. And i had not even thought to add egg crate, great idea. I liked the idea of siliconing the glass in like Mark had said but couldnt think of a easy way of making the teeth so the egg crate will solve that perfect. I also like the idea of doing it all at home and not lugging the tank to the store for drilling. Thanks so much for your all you guys input. will put it to good use!

[megs_clark]

Ohhh that would suck getting through cutting ok to have it break on the other side of the glass. Will deffinitly do the tape thing, and we always have playdoh kicking around so will do that to! Thanks Swear i speant so long googling all this, should have just asked for advice right way, Hands on advice is always better !

[xtreme]

The biggest challenge is holding the bit in the right spot while you start it. You always have to start on a bit of an angle too, get it going a bit and slowly get it all th way around..

Grab a little chunk of styrofoam and use your hole saw to cut through it. Then clamp it onto your tank as a template, it'll keep your bit from skipping around. I've done the angle method as well and the template makes it a lot easier.

[fishytime]

Grab a little chunk of styrofoam and use your hole saw to cut through it. Then clamp it onto your tank as a template, it'll keep your bit from skipping around. I've done the angle method as well and the template makes it a lot easier.

Thats a great tip Sean....

If you want, have a look at the first couple pages of my tank journal http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40669 ....theres some fairly detailed pics of my herbie set-up.

[mark]

also take a look at Dez's build, some good pictures there of working with glass.

[megs_clark]

Hi sean thanks for the tip. Im thinking im going to get my other half to do the cutting so am making a list of tips for him. I think he will do a few practic runs and will deffinitly get him to try that. It sounds like thats a tricky part. Getting the bit to stay at first. And Fishytime, great tank. Im only half way through your thread and it looks amazing!

[xtreme]

Another tip is to set the clutch on your drill to a very low setting so if the bit binds up at all the clutch will kick in and hopefully prevent it from cracking. Drilling holes is easy, just take your time and keep the bit wet. Also don't drill to close to the edge, whatever size you are drilling leave at least that much space between the hole and the edge of the glass.

[mark]

drilled a 20g and 33g with a Dremel for 1" bulkheads, took about 15-20min per hole for going slow, packet of diamond bits was ~$10, some to consider also

[untamed]

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/rbarn_herbie.jpg



Just a couple of additional thoughts regarding this diagram...

1) The primary drain line (the one with the ball/gate valve) is shown in this diagram to have a tall standpipe up inside the overflow box. That pipe isn't necessary. In fact, I don't think it is a good idea. Optimally, the water level in the overflow box operates at some point which is ABOVE the primary drain, yet BELOW the emergency drain. In this diagram these two drains are very close in height, providing little room to operate.

Further, if there isn't enough water depth directly above the primary drain, then it tends to form a vortex and suck air down...which defeats the entire purpose of the design.

2) As I just mentioned, the diagram shows the water level at the level of the emergency overflow. That's OK, but the system works more quietly at a water level slightly below that.

If you ever want to come by and look at a variety of Herbie overflows in operation, just let me know. In my refugium, I have a standpipe on the primary overflow. It is there for a very specific reason which I can demonstrate to you.

[mark]

There is a advantage to having a short standpipe on the primary in that though the Herbie method is silent, you can still get some noise from the water dropping into the overflow chamber.

This noise can be limited by lessening the drop (by raising the water level in the overflow chamber).

[mike31154]

Another small tip regarding drilling the tank. Masking tape is a good idea, but for extra insurance place something soft below the area you're drilling just in case the tape doesn't hold. Even a piece of cardboard will do, but something a little thicker will be better to catch the 'donut' hole.

[megs_clark]

Hi, Thanks for all the great advice, im just trying to track down a local drill bit (trying to get around waiting for the shipping) Seems easy to find 1 1/2 inch bits and 2" bits but can not find a 1 3/4 inch that i need for a one inch bulkhead. When i track one down i will be sure to use all your advice. Thanks for all the replys! Do you think i could drill with a 1 1/2 inch bit and use a diamond coated dremel to make it fit a 1" bulkhead? Or is that to risky

[hillegom]

I would drill the proper size hole. Did you try tomas skinner?

[mark]

just a heads up, when I replaced my return pump I had to replace the bulkhead.

I ended up buying 3 different sized 1.5" bulkheads until I found one that would fit the hole.

[Myka]

BRS has drill bits for 1 3/4".

[mike31154]

Hi, Thanks for all the great advice, im just trying to track down a local drill bit (trying to get around waiting for the shipping) Seems easy to find 1 1/2 inch bits and 2" bits but can not find a 1 3/4 inch that i need for a one inch bulkhead. When i track one down i will be sure to use all your advice. Thanks for all the replys! Do you think i could drill with a 1 1/2 inch bit and use a diamond coated dremel to make it fit a 1" bulkhead? Or is that to risky

I've used a variable speed drill with a round grinding stone to smooth out and open the hole a little after drilling. It will work but I had a couple of small slips and put several minor scratches on the glass around the hole. No biggy since it's a sump I was drilling, but you're better off being patient and getting the proper size bit.

[fishytime]

And Fishytime, great tank. Im only half way through your thread and it looks amazing!


Thanks for comp Megs....you can drill the hole small and then use the edge of the bit to "ream" hole bigger(I had to do that once....not fun but it works)...
Just a couple of additional thoughts regarding this diagram...

1) The primary drain line (the one with the ball/gate valve) is shown in this diagram to have a tall standpipe up inside the overflow box. That pipe isn't necessary. In fact, I don't think it is a good idea. Optimally, the water level in the overflow box operates at some point which is ABOVE the primary drain, yet BELOW the emergency drain. In this diagram these two drains are very close in height, providing little room to operate.

Further, if there isn't enough water depth directly above the primary drain, then it tends to form a vortex and suck air down...which defeats the entire purpose of the design.



There is a happy medium there....some people just screw a strainer fitting into the bulkhead.....I wouldnt recommend that either....you need to be able to reach it,to unscrew it, to clean it every once in a while....I have mine a little over half way up the overflow box.

[megs_clark]

Ill wait, lol, was eagger to get a go on it this weekend, but ill hold off and order from that bulk reef suply.

[megs_clark]

Well yesterday the hole saws came, and this morning we drilled two holes on the back corner for the drain. We were going to drill two more holes for the return but it took a long time to drill the first two so we decided to stick with going over the top for the returns. Were pritty much going to go exactly as Marks diagram showes but will probably put in two returns? Havnt really decided. Right now im off to get some glass cut for the overflow, Getting more excited, thanks again for all the advice