Help with digital SLR choices

[Skimmin]

I'm trying to decide on a good middle of the road digital SLR camera. Does anyone have some knowledge to lend? I've been looking at the Canon 50D with a 18-200 lens for the time being a good versatile lens. I've also been looking at the Canon D5 with the same lens. On the Nikon side of things I've been looking at the 90D, D300, and D3(all with the Nikon 18-200 lens). Eventually I will add more lenses no madder which camera I buy, but I believe a 18-200 is sort of a good mix for close up and the entrance to telephoto. They are all in, or below the price range I was expecting but I'm not a professional photographer so I'm not sure if some of the models are overkill for me. I have taken a photoghaphy course so I have a good understanding on how to use them but I also want something I can set to automatic, hand to my girlfriend and know she'll be able to take a good picture too. Does a full frame camera tend to help with quality of enlarging pics? I think these cameras are some decent ones to be looking at, but if you have any other suggestions please feel free to let me know.

Thanks

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

If you can, pick up the Nikon D700. It is a full frame sensor, meaning that there is no conversion factor on 35mm format lenses. Larger sensors equals better light gathering and higher resolutions photos to allow bigger enlargements or crops.

For great macro shots, go with either the Nikon 60mm or 105mm. The 105 is image stabilized which will help greatly in macro photography especially when shooting at smaller apertures to get DOF.

HTH.

Cheers,

OC.

[subman]

if you do get a Canon pick up a 50 f/1.8 they are only about $150 and are perfect for tank shots as they are great for low light and are super cheap!

[Ron99]

I think either the Canon or the Nikon will give you great results. I am Canon guy (currently have a 30D but very tempted by the 50D) and have stuck with them as I had several excellent SLR lenses from my film days. Canon used to have the edge with their quiet ultrasonic lenses and with image stabilization but patents have run out and everybody is offering those features now. If you have no lenses yet it's really just a matter of looking at the individual features and seeing if one or the other has something you really want. IMO, Nikon metering seems to be a bit better than Canon but the Canon sensors perform a bit better at higher ISO settings (i.e. less noise in lower light). Either will give you great images.

Full frame may give you a slight edge in image quality if you want to make really large enlargements. I have made great 17" x 22" enlargements from 8 MP APS sized sensor on the 30D. It's really the lens quality that will determine how much you can enlarge rather then the sensor. However, if you want to do more telephoto work than wide angle work the APS sized sensor gives your lens an effectively longer reach for less money. Compare the costs of a 600mm lens to use on a full frame camera to a 400mm for the smaller sensor. If you want to do primarily wide angle scenics etc. then a full frame camera is better. If you want to do more telephoto work (sports, racing, wildlife) then the smaller sensor is better. If it's a bit of everything then there probably isn't a great advantage to spending alot more on the full frame camera.

[fkshiu]

You'll be happy with either a Canon or Nikon - remember, it's less about the body than the lenses when it comes to SLRs.

What I would recommend is to try out the cameras before you buy as they can feel quite different in your hands. Make sure the particular model you buy is comfortable.

[jus68]

I went thru all the same q's myself. I ended up with the d90 w 18-200 lense and I love it... If I was to get Canon I would've waited to get the 60d which won't be until dec or early 2010. I really enjoy the video capabilities too since I have kids, its a great all arounder.

[blacknife]

I have a d-200 with that 18-200 lens, It is a good all around lens but i wish i had a few others to go with it. when taking pictures of my tank and other things i wish i had an actual macro lens. I find sometimes when taking downward shots the weight of lens trys to pull the zoom out, i am not sure if it is just my lens in paticular or all of the 18-200's that do this, i have been forgetting to call nikkon or a camera shop to ask about it. There are not to many times where this bothers me but it is just that little bit of annoyance. If i knew the new gen of slr's was going to have video capabilities i would have waited a year, oh well i will have to upgrade or buy a camcorder instead :)

[sphelps]

I went with Nikon over Canon because the body just felt better, I think this is probably most important, the feel. Canon's are supposed to have a little faster focusing ability while Nikon is better at color rendering, this is why you see mostly Canons at sporting events and Nikons with the nature guys. Also most professional photographers will use Canon and most normal hobbyists use Nikon.

You're looking at some pretty nice bodies, so if it's in your budget definitely check out the D700 as it's basically the D3 but smaller. Next I would say the D300 and then D90. The D90 is really nice if you want the video feature otherwise go with the D300 which has the aluminum body and extra shortcut keys.

Since you're looking at good bodies I would skip the 18-200, this is a good lens for those who do not want to switch out lenses but you sacrifice quite a bit by using it, things like sharpness and speed. The focusing is also kind of sluggish. You'd be better off spending the same money on a couple lenses instead like a 18-70mm and the 70-300mm VR. If you've got extra money you could go with an even better combo like the 16-85mm and 80-200mm. Next you can get yourself a couple prime lenses like the 50mm for portraits and aquarium, and the 105mm for macro.

[blacknife]

^^ I agree on the lenses, I should trade my 18-200 in for a couple more suited to my needs. or just wait till I am working again and buy others.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

From my experience shooting with both Canon and Nikon, I find that Nikon is alot more accurate for skin tones and warmer colors. Not only are hobbyists using Nikon, but if you look at fashion photogs and landscape photogs most are shooting Nikon. Sports photographers use Canon because of the extremely fast focus tracking system but some of their L series lenses are priced outrageously.

The barrel on the 18-200 lens should be quite stiff and not too loose. If your barrel is loose, contact Nikon because their lenses have a 5yr warranty and they should cover that issue for you. Having said that, most zoom lenses are designed to be shot in a horizontal fashion and not so much vertical so maybe the barrel will slip a bit. I am a huge fan of the 18-200 because of it's versatility. The 18-70 is nice but is limited and at 70 mm I think the minimum aperature is 5.6. Where as the 18-200 at 200 you can step down to 5.6, great for blurring background noise.

I have the 80-200 f2.8 and that is a very big lens to take around. The 70-200 f2.8 VR was not around when I bought the 80-200 or else that would be the best choice for long range telephotos.

Here are my choices for lenses that I would have in my photographic arsenal:

General Lens for Vacation and family/Kids/Pets
Nikon 18-200

Macro photography
105 VR if you have a full frame DSLR

*60m if you don't

* this is because of the 1.5x conversion factor when purchasing an APS size sensor DSLR. If you are using 105mm on anything lower then a D700, the lens is magnified due to the small sensor size and you will be around 155mm macro and that is way too much magnification is you are working in a small room with walls.

Large Zoom Teles:

70-200 f2.8 VR

Prime Teles

400mm f4

Fisheye:

10mm f2.8

Portrait lens:

105mm VR macro.

There are also a lot of really nice old school lenses available as well that the D700 would take.

Can't forget the 50mm f1.4, sharp sharp lens and incredible for low light.

OC.

[sphelps]

The 18-70mm will do f3.5 at 18mm and f4.5 at 70mm.

I don't agree with what was said about the 105mm and the requirement for a full frame camera. The D300 has a 1.5x CROP FACTOR not magnification. The image is in no way magnified, but rather simply cropped. Therefore you don't actually loose image quality, you're just not using the far edges of the lens. In addition DX lenses take this into consideration and when used with a DX body you will use the entire frame from the lens, the FX bodies can still use these lenses but don't gain anything from them.

http://www.photo-skills.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/full_frame_crop_frame.jpg
Full Frame
1.3x Crop Factor
1.5x Crop Factor
1.6x Crop Factor

The D3 and D700 are fantastic bodies and have large advantages but don't think you need to spend that kind of money just to use a macro lens. The 105 will work very well with the D300 and other DX bodies. Also keep in mind if you buy an FX body, don't waste your money on DX lenses, you have to buy all the expensive FX lenses if you want to take advantage of the full frame.

[lastlight]

I own the d80 and borrow the 105VR from time to time. It's takes the most amazing portraits and is very sharp. Yeah it crops on my body but I've taken some really nice macros with it as well.

[Skimmin]

Cool. Well thanks for all the response thus far. An SLR is a big decision for me and I want to make the right choice. I think I'm beginning to lean away from the 18-200 and I think I may consider the 18-70 and 70-200 even though it means hauling around 2 lenses. I think the body is still the biggest decision. I want something that feels good and not too 'plasticey' which I don't think I'm gonna run into with these choices. I think the D700 is probably what I may go with but I guess I'll see if I can give a few of them a try before I buy them. Another question is... UV filters? I know its always good to use one if nothing else to protect your lens. What should I take into consideration when buying one for a telephoto (for scenery) and one for more close up stuff?

[sphelps]

You should go something else instead of the 18-70 if you get the D700 like the 24-85, the 18-70 is a DX lens. Don't spend that kind of money on n dslr if youre worried about carrying lenses around ;)

[Ian]

I am releative newb to DSLR and was given a D80 as a gift a year ago. It is still smarter than I am :redface: IMO it is a very good camera and more than enough if you are not very advanced.

[vessey]

I think those bodies might be more then you need and you would probably be better off buying a cheaper body and some good lenses. Buying a full frame camera is only really needed if you want to take scenery shots and can't have the cropping that a APS would cause. APS are also better for cropping because they have more MP by area. D90 has 12.3 MP on a 23.6mm x 15.8mm ASP, D700 has 12.1MP on a 36mm x 23.9mm full frame sensor. Also don't get hung up on the fx and dx lenses unless you plan on going full frame later on because they make some good dx too. If you did get the D700 get the fx though.

You could always buy a cheaper body now and learn with it then decide what you think you need that it doesn't have and buy a better body a few years from now. They are constantly coming out with newer and better, I cringe when I think about home much I paid for my cameras 2 and 3 years ago and how obsoliet they are.

[fkshiu]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1646436&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

You'll be happy with either Canon or Nikon. Both companies make very good products. I went with Canon simply because I could mooch lenses off of a good friend who shoots Canon.

[Skimmin]

So I finally decided and... I cheaped out and went with the Canon 50D. That being said I bought a couple 'L' series lenses and I am very happy with my purchase. I ended up with the EF 17-40mm f/4L IS and the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS. I think they'll work quite nicely for now, and I'll obviously have to add a lens or two (or 10 lol) to my arsenal to get full range capabilities. Anyways. Thanks to everyone with all your input and advice. It was very helpful and also the reason I made(what I think is) the right choice, going with the lower model camera and the good quality lenses.

Thanks again

[fkshiu]

So I finally decided and... I cheaped out and went with the Canon 50D. That being said I bought a couple 'L' series lenses and I am very happy with my purchase. I ended up with the EF 17-40mm f/4L IS and the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS. I think they'll work quite nicely for now, and I'll obviously have to add a lens or two (or 10 lol) to my arsenal to get full range capabilities. Anyways. Thanks to everyone with all your input and advice. It was very helpful and also the reason I made(what I think is) the right choice, going with the lower model camera and the good quality lenses.

Thanks again

I think you'll be very happy. The 100mm f2.8 macro is THE Canon lens for awesome coral shots. It's a real steal at around $500.

[Ron99]

I don't think the 50D is cheaping out :) You made the right choice as spending more money on lenses is better than buying a high end body and using cheaper lenses. I used to take publishable photos with a Canon Rebel. It's all in the glass. you will be more than happy with it.

[kien]

I ended up with the EF 17-40mm f/4L IS

Thanks again

WOW! That's a neat trick, how the heck did you find a 17-40L with IS !?!? hehe :wink:

[lastlight]

I think you'll be very happy. The 100mm f2.8 macro is THE Canon lens for awesome coral shots. It's a real steal at around $500.

Yeah silly me going nikon. the darn 105mm f2.8 VR is like $900.

[sphelps]

Yeah silly me going nikon. the darn 105mm f2.8 VR is like $900.
Yeah but it's got the VR, well worth the extra $$. Plus I think the canon is a little more than $500 :wink:

[lastlight]

should VR be used on a tripod? I find it harder to use the auto focus when i'm using a tripod and it's on...

sorry to hijack!

[sphelps]

should VR be used on a tripod? I find it harder to use the auto focus when i'm using a tripod and it's on...

sorry to hijack!
VR is for handheld only, must be turned off when using a tripod

[kien]

Actually, I know that that's not entirely true for all Image Stabilized/VR lenses.. I couldn't remember which so here's what the Nikon Knowledge Database says about this subject:

Question

When using my VR lens on a tripod, do I keep the "VR" On or Off?

Answer

The Vibration Reduction technology built into some Nikon lenses or the COOLPIX 8800 can reduce or eliminate vibration during shooting. When the camera is on a tripod there will be very little (if any) movement so the question arises if VR should be used or not.

There are two techniques when using a camera/lens mounted on a tripod; keeping the pan/tilt head loose or fluid (when panning or moving with a subject) and keeping the pan/tilt head locked down and rigid while using a cable release (time exposures or for the new HDR techniques).

With the following lenses/cameras VR should be "Off" when the camera is mounted on a tripod and the pan/tilt head is locked down and using a cable release:

105mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Micro Nikkor
18-200mm f3.5-5.6 ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor
24-120mm f3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
70-200mm f2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
80-400mm f4.5-5.6D ED VR AF Zoom-Nikkor
70-300mm f4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
Coolpix 8800

With the following lenses/cameras VR should be "On" when the camera is mounted on a tripod and the pan/tilt head is loose (fluid) while using the cameras shutter release button:

105mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Micro Nikkor
18-200mm f3.5-5.6 ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor
24-120mm f3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
70-200mm f2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
80-400mm f4.5-5.6D ED VR AF Zoom-Nikkor
70-300mm f4.5-5.6G IF-ED AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
Coolpix 8800

Nikon VR technology in the following lenses can detect minute vibrations that emanate from tripod legs. With the following lenses VR can be "On" when the camera is mounted on a tripod for either technique:

200-400mm f4G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
200mm f2G ED-IF AF-S VR Nikkor
300mm f2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Nikkor

For all lenses VR should be "On" when the camera/lens is used on a monopod

[Skimmin]

My bad the 14-40 isn't IS but it is L.

[sphelps]

Actually, I know that that's not entirely true for all Image Stabilized/VR lenses.. I couldn't remember which so here's what the Nikon Knowledge Database says about this subject:

Using a tripod loose is still considered hand held because your hand movements are transferred through the tripod to the camera. When you use a tripod in the stationary way you turn your VR off, but yeah if you spend 5G on a lens it will shut it off for you :lol:

[fkshiu]

Yeah but it's got the VR, well worth the extra $$. Plus I think the canon is a little more than $500 :wink:

My receipt from December says $529.99.