Eb0la11's 165G Reef Tank Build [Archive] - Canreef Aquatics Bulletin Board

Eb0la11

07-19-2009, 08:15 PM

Hey guys,

ok so I have been around asking tons of questions over the last 3 months and finally have collected almost all of the hardware to begin setting up my tank. I've got a 165G six foot tank built from Bow Valley Aquatics and am very pleased.

I have used a 30G tank I had laying around to build a sump and I am now beginning the setup. Here are some pictures:

Full Tank Shot
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/TankShot2.jpg

Top of Tank Shot
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/TankShot3.jpg

Overflow
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/Overflow.jpg

Overflow Box
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/OverflowBox.jpg

Sump
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/Sump.jpg

Cracked Sump!!! :cry:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/CrackedSump.jpg

So I was cutting the board for the bottom of my tank so I had a nice level space to put the sump, QT tank etc and the above shot shows what happened as I slid the sump from one side under the tank to the other and hit one of the braces idiotically...

Sooooo, I'm thinking of just leaving it in there cracked and buying a new glass pane that is cut to size of the inside dimensions and I'll silicone it inside of the sump. I'll lose 1/8" or so but it should be ok. Is this a plausible solution?

Eb0la11

07-19-2009, 08:28 PM

Another quick question I had is whether the rubber o-ring for a bulk head goes inside the tank against the glass or on the outside of the tank against the glass? Does it matter?

xtreme

07-19-2009, 08:35 PM

Another quick question I had is whether the rubber o-ring for a bulk head goes inside the tank against the glass or on the outside of the tank against the glass? Does it matter?

Good question. Have a look at this thread (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=54320) for your answer.:biggrin:

Eb0la11

07-20-2009, 07:29 PM

Where is a good place to get plumbing parts in Calgary? I found Home Depot wasnt extensive enough.

baker_jeff

07-20-2009, 08:29 PM

Rona here in Edmonton has a good selection.

parkinsn

07-20-2009, 08:47 PM

Where is a good place to get plumbing parts in Calgary? I found Home Depot wasnt extensive enough.

Rona is generally better that HD. i usually go to Wosley, they will have anything you need (except gate valves)

fishytime

07-21-2009, 05:27 AM

they will have anything you need (except gate valves)

Which we stock at RC:mrgreen: also other specialty parts. *holds up product with cheesy infomercial guy smile*

Eb0la11

07-21-2009, 06:40 AM

Which we stock at RC:mrgreen: also other specialty parts. *holds up product with cheesy infomercial guy smile*

Ok I have 3 parts that I am having a hard time finding.

1. 1/2" Ball and Socket PVC (Lock line I think its called or something?) I keep finding 3/4" but not 1/2"

2. 2" PVC Gate Valves

3. A 1 1/2" Y Connector

Do you have all those parts? If you do, I'm literally going to come by tomorrow. And if thats the case I would also probably get a small sheet of 5mm glass cut, I think 13 and 1/2" x 11 and 15/16" but I can talk about that there I would think.

Anyways, let me know.

fishytime

07-21-2009, 12:41 PM

1/2" loc line is there, pretty sure we have 2" gates, not sure about the "y"... Give Kevin a call after 1pm to make sure 4033381880.

Eb0la11

07-21-2009, 09:47 PM

Ok, so I got the 1/2" loc line from Red Coral. I decided against the gate valve for now cause it was pricier than I was willing to pay. 59.99

I think I can find it for 20-$30 elsewhere. The fellow there, his name slips my mind, not Kevin, said that they might drop the price if I found it cheaper elsewhere. Ive already seen them online for 20 dollars so I think I just gotta look.

So I had three questions now.

1) Do you guys feel if I installed a herbie style drain if I could have only one of the pipes have the gate valve on it? The secondary pipe acts as an emergency anyways and I feel like it has no need to be restricted ever. Thoughts?

2) When I plumb, I use PVC cement for slip fittings and teflon tape for screw fittings, correct? Is there anything else that people use to help if there's a leak? Is Oatie PVC glue reef safe? Or is there a different brand I need to buy? Is teflon tape reef safe?

3) For my four 1/2" returns I am wondering if a 90 degree 1/2" pvc hose barb wouldnt be best. I know 90s restrict flow, but this would be the only one in the lines. How do you guys feel about that? Ive seen other enthusiasts do it, so I feel like it'd be ok. Am I wrong?

parkinsn

07-21-2009, 11:27 PM

Gate valves are pricey but i doubt you will find them cheaper in the city or at all (other than RC, which it where i got mine:biggrin:). you can get them online for cheaper but by the time you pay shipping/tax/pst/duty (depending) and your time it might be worth it just to grab one and bite the bullet.

1) You dont want to restrict your emergency drain. If something happens to your main drain you want it to be able to handle all the water your pump is pushing. Also leave it out of your sump water so you can hear it trickling so you know something is a miss.

2) Use the primer as well as the glue as it makes for a better seal and cleans the dirt off. Both teflon and the Oatly glue are reef safe. Make sure you give the glue time to dry before running water through it. and when you glue give a 1/4 turn to ensure a good fit. Remember when you dry fit to leave a little extra in your measurements for when you cement as it will go a little further in then when you dry fit.

3) I have used the 90 degree barbs before with no issues. yes they restrict the flow, but try this calc and see what it really does to your flow.
http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

Eb0la11

07-22-2009, 12:34 AM

banditpowdercoat

07-22-2009, 01:44 AM

yes ABS is fine

parkinsn

07-22-2009, 01:59 AM

Thanks Parkins. Some good tips in there. I appreciate that! I'll visit wosely's to see if they have gate valves any cheaper, and if not I'll bite the bullet and buy the one I need.

So Im now almost ready to start plumbing and have a new question. How tall should my emergency drain be in relation to my overflow water height? Also, how can I estimate where this line will be when my tank is not filled yet? I assume the emergency drain will be above the water line but below the top of the tank. Is that correct?

Also, is ABS piping reef safe/non toxic as well?

Wosley does not have gate valves, thats the first place i checked as their main branch is across the street from my work. Try western pump i think they have them but not the size that i wanted at the time.

Your water level, depending on your pump will rise about 1/2" above the level of where your overflow spills, if that makes sense. So you would want your emergency about a 5/8" above where the water will spill in on your overflow, and yes below the top of your tank or when your main line clogs you will have serious issues :lol:

As for the ABS, some people say its ok and some dont. ABS is for drain lines and PVC is for drinking lines. I personally would not plumb a whole system in it, but i have never tried so i cant say long term how it works/leaches. If its the black color you want you can get the dark grey PVC (i think Lastlight used the grey and it looks pretty sweet)

Red Coral Aquariums

07-22-2009, 05:13 AM

Ok, so I got the 1/2" loc line from Red Coral.

***Hey sorry I missed you today

I decided against the gate valve for now cause it was pricier than I was willing to pay. 59.99

I think I can find it for 20-$30 elsewhere.

***Yes if I could buy them for that price I could sell for cheaper

The fellow there, his name slips my mind, not Kevin, said that they might drop the price if I found it cheaper elsewhere. Ive already seen them online for 20 dollars so I think I just gotta look.

*** See what happens when I leave for a bit LOL

So I had three questions now.

1) Do you guys feel if I installed a herbie style drain if I could have only one of the pipes have the gate valve on it? The secondary pipe acts as an emergency anyways and I feel like it has no need to be restricted ever. Thoughts?

** you only need one (1) gate valve. we have some example tanks in the shop that show how a herbie system works

2) When I plumb, I use PVC cement for slip fittings and teflon tape for screw fittings, correct? Is there anything else that people use to help if there's a leak? Is Oatie PVC glue reef safe? Or is there a different brand I need to buy? Is teflon tape reef safe?

** I prefer pipe dope over teflon tape.

3) For my four 1/2" returns I am wondering if a 90 degree 1/2" pvc hose barb wouldnt be best. I know 90s restrict flow, but this would be the only one in the lines. How do you guys feel about that? Ive seen other enthusiasts do it, so I feel like it'd be ok. Am I wrong?

*** depends on pump you will get gph loss with 90's

*** Kevin

parkinsn

07-22-2009, 05:17 AM

** I prefer pipe dope over teflon tape.
Kevin

Thats why your always in a good mood when i come in there :lol:

Red Coral Aquariums

07-22-2009, 06:33 AM

thats why your always in a good mood when i come in there :lol:

lol

Eb0la11

07-22-2009, 06:59 AM

Thanks Kevin, too bad I missed you. Hopefully you guys can give my room mate the gears a bit when he comes to the bbq on Saturday. He hasnt signed up for can reef or any of that yet I dont think. I'll be MCing a friends wedding that night in BC so wont make it.

I'll see how my Gate Valve search goes. Worst case scenario its my one "specialty" fitting and might just bite the bullet.

kien

07-22-2009, 08:32 AM

Hey, is the wedding you are MC'ing at Panorama???

Eb0la11

07-22-2009, 04:54 PM

haha no its in Kelowna. Why, you going to a wedding as well? lol

kien

07-22-2009, 05:04 PM

Yes, Panorama :-)

Okay, back on topic... So, how's the plumbing search going? I did an inventory of all the parts that I have collected over the past two weeks and found that I'm short quite a few pieces and have a bunch of extra ones.. hehe. I finally drafted up my entire plumbing work last night though and made a laundry list of all the parts that I think I'm going to need. Will be hitting up Rona after work first, then if I need anything extra I'm heading to Western Pump in the Glenmore Industrial park. They have tonnes of tubes and fittings there.

You know, i would totally use that 135g as a sump. It would be killer! You would probably have enough room for a fresh water reservoir in that sump too! FreshWater-Fuge-return-Skimmer/overflow. Or, Frag-Fuge-return-Skimmer.. so many options :-)

mseepman

07-22-2009, 05:04 PM

If its in Kelowna, be prepared for the smoke haze. I live in Vernon and both us and Kelowna are so smokey that I can't see accross the valley that we live in. Lot's of exciting fires in Kelowna these days.

Eb0la11

07-23-2009, 06:49 AM

Haha I shoulda considered my 135 for my sump but dont think it'll happen this time around. My next tank it will. Whenever that is... like 5 years from now when I build a house or something and it'll be a massive 450G fish room complete unreal system lol.

Anyways, here's a small update. Got a fair bit done today. I've set up my laundry sink by running some new lines for it. Its all pretty rough since Im renting and have no desire to set up anything completely solid. I might even take my sink with me when I leave, but not sure cause its attached to the drain but as you can see by photos the lines for it arent even attached.

I will add the photo that shows it later, which might not be for 5 days since Im gone this weekend and I cant take a new pic cause I gotta figure out how to delete my old ones since my memory card is full and Im too busy to figure it out... I know... weak.

Shot of the wall before plumbing. (plumbing is now done, Ill get the shot later)
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/BeforeSink2.jpg

RODI, mounted on the wall but still gotta get the TDS on it and it hooked up onto my rubbermaid reservoir with the float valve etc...
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/RODI.jpg

Check it out! Got my gate valve and I must say, Bow Valley Aquatics is quickly growing on my list for destinations for extensive aquarium needs. I got a check valve to prevent back flow during a power outage as well, so my tank should be flood proof, but correct me if Im wrong. I think I have enough extra room in my sump for any excess drainage caused by gravity during a power outage and so it'd drain until my overflow was level with the water level in the tank.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/PlumbingParts.jpg

If you guys must know, I got the gate valve for $40 from BVA. I had to stop there anyways to get a pane of glass to repair the crack that I put in my sump and asked him about several parts and hes got it all man its nuts.

Anyways, next up Im gonna basically plumb this thing, try to run a seperate circuit for my lighting and then we're filling it. Im sure I'll run into a problem though lol.

BlueAbyss

07-23-2009, 07:07 AM

I would consider the tank (with check valve) 'flood resistant' personally... flood 'proof' sounds a little too secure :lol: How are you running your return?

Looks like you're well on your way... I wish I could find plastic fittings like that here.

banditpowdercoat

07-23-2009, 03:47 PM

You better make SURE you have enough room in the sumo to handle the flowback. A checkvalve will NOT seal 100% after time and don't rely on them to keep your floors dry. The salt water loves to make the rubber seals hard in the checkvalves then they won't seal.

xtreme

07-23-2009, 03:54 PM

It looks like your return lines are drilled high enough up in the tank that you won't need a check valve. I wouldn't want to rely on one I know that.

Eb0la11

07-23-2009, 06:03 PM

haha I guess flood proof was a little premature. I will simulate the tank draining down during a power outage to see how well my sump responds. I think I'd have enough if it stopped at the height of my overflow, but not if it goes to the bottom of my return line holes. Eventually I'll be getting something more like a 50G sump but hopefully worst case scenario doesnt occur before then. If it did it wouldnt be the end of the world since im on a concrete floor and I think I could handle 10-15 Gallons of water on the floor.

It'd suck, dont get me wrong, but theres nothing that would get completely wrecked really, and eventually the water would find the nearby floor drain.

lastlight

07-23-2009, 06:53 PM

Nice I see some sprinkler parts made it into your build as well? Are those Orbit from HD?

Eb0la11

07-23-2009, 07:41 PM

Yeah there are four sprinkler parts. They are the 90s that will come out the back of the bulkheads for my returns. Anyone have any insight if that will be a problem? They are from HD, yes haha.

banditpowdercoat

07-23-2009, 08:00 PM

They wont be a problem, Ive used some of them before

lastlight

07-23-2009, 09:44 PM

the barb ends of the 90s and straight adapters they make are the exact same size as the eheim outputs. I was happy to discover them and put back the $20 in pvc that I had collected to create an equivalent adapter at HD.

Eb0la11

07-30-2009, 09:46 PM

Ok Ive made a lot of progress on my plumbing. I got 99% of the parts and I know this because they are all roughed in right now and I believe I just need two more male 3/4" streets or whatever its called and then I think I have everything.

Plumbing this sucker is difficult only because I cant mount to the metal frame at all. So I've made a bit of a wood skeleton that will hang over my sump and support the piping further. I'll also build a shelf for my ballasts I think too.

I'll post some pics soon.

Only question Ive really come across is how the heck do you tighten your threaded streets into your bulkheads easily? I got them pretty tight. Tight enough that I feel like I could fill it and have a strong chance it wont leak, but I just know I could get it a bit tighter some how but it just keeps spinning mostly cause I dont have a wrench big enough to hold the 2" bulkhead flange.

Anyways, I think theres a reasonably strong chance I'll be filling this sucker this weekend.

Eb0la11

08-03-2009, 05:45 AM

Alright I have made more progress. I've hooked up and glued all the plumbing and everything and filled the tank today. Turns out I cracked one bulkhead and it was leaking but other than that its pretty good. I got a new part and will hook it up tomorrow and fire up the system again.

If its 100% leak proof I'll probably run it with regular water for at least half a day or full day and then fill it with RODI. Perhaps next weekend we can mix up the salt and get the live rock in that we have and order more that we need.

My camera is really making me frustrated. It says memory card full but then I go to delete pictures and it says no pictures or videos to display. Im so confused....

fishytime

08-03-2009, 03:14 PM

Isnt technology wonderful?:lol:

Eb0la11

08-03-2009, 06:16 PM

Ya, I wish I could post pictures. I think I've got a pretty good setup going for my first ever SW tank. Ive learned a fair bit from FW but this thing kicks the crap out of my FW 120G.

Ok so the next problem Im facing is getting enough power to run this sucker. I am pretty much positive that a 50 inch tv, 120G FW aquarium and 165G Reef tank cant all run on the same circuit and so I need to run a new circuit that I'm going to dedicate just to the SW aquarium.

So, im not electrician but am tempted to DIY. I'm not a retard though and I'd ask my electrician friends how to do it since one of them lives out of town and the other never seems to be around to help.

So... anyone know how to change a regular receptical to a GCFI (that would also be done for the 120G and then install a completely new circuit off my breaker? I think I'd need to run it maybe 15 feet all through an unfinished basement so it'd be super easy. Im thinking 20 amp instead of 15 though just so I never have issues? Whats step 1? What parts do I need etc lol

Eb0la11

08-04-2009, 11:41 PM

Ok guys here is my latest update with pictures! I finally got my camera to take a few shots but I need to get a new card. This one only holds 32Mb which is like 3 high quality pics...

So, here is the first shot. This one is a half tank shot of the frame I had to build under my metal stand to support pipes and act as a shelf for my ballasts. It also shows the returns and lock line that I have on the inside of the tank on all 4 return lines.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/Herbie.jpg

Next we have a view of the plumbing of the sump from the front view of the tank. I am relatively pleased with the design. Ive had to make minor alterations, such as with my check valve already and the way I designed it to come apart made the swap pretty easy. I would have maybe planned my sump a bit different the second time around but so far it seems to be working not bad. Sorry for all the cords laying around. I'll be tidying those up once my system is running to perfection.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/SumpPlumbed.jpg

Next we have a shot of the plumbing from the left side of the tank. Looks more cluttered on this side but its not bad. Ive managed to fit it all under half of my tank, so the right side of under the tank will house a QT tank, a reservoir for an ATO unit and most likely another bucket or something that will act as an emergency reserve.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/Plumbing.jpg

Lastly we have a look at the valves that are above the shelf away from the piping below the shelf for easy access. I had to have a couple 90s in my return lines because finding a y 3/4" to 1/2" reducer was impossible. Ive got great flow through them though, so I am happy.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Eb0la11/Valves.jpg

So, now I have run the tank and it works about 90% the exact way I wanted it to. The only two minor problems Im having are:

1.) My needle wheel pump for my skimmer for some reason is not starting. I cant figure it out. I plugged it in for a second before the skimmer was full of water, but it didnt even turn on during that moment and its had a history of not starting when I tested it outside so I dont think this event has anything to do with it, but it might. I'll try to get it going one way or another. I might have to take it apart again. Oh the joys of used equipment...

2.) This problem I'll probably need some suggestions from you all. As you can see in picture number 3 I have T'd off my refugium line from the 2" drains. This has been somewhat awkward to say the least and I might cut into this line and replumb this because whats happening is very little water is actually making it through the T. I didnt want much, but theres not much more than a trickle and thats not enough. Any tips to starting a fussy pump? It hasnt ever had problems stopping running once running, just seems like it needed a little bang to get going sometimes. Kind of annoying...

Whats the best way to plumb this in? Right now all its doing basically is acting as a spot for air to enter the system and cause a ton of gurgling even if I only just barely crack the valve. Im thinking about cutting that part out entirely and having my emergency drain run into the refugium instead. I think the chances of my emergency drain actually ever taking the whole load of water is slim to none since I have my filter covers on the intake lines for both drains and also egg crate in front of my overflow and so this amount of water would be almost perfect. What do you guys think?

Eb0la11

08-06-2009, 03:12 AM

For some reason just edited my last post instead of new one so wanted to bump the thread. New pics above.

Myka

08-06-2009, 03:22 AM

Looks good! Do you have enough room in your sump for backflow during a power outage?

kien

08-06-2009, 03:29 AM

Whats the best way to plumb this in?

personally, what I would do is cut it out and replumb it, except this time add a valve to the outtake of the main drain as well. This way you can close the valve to restrict the flow into the main chamber, thus forcing more water through the 'T' and into the other chamber. The valve has to go after the 'T' though.

Another thing you can do (that also requires replumbing), is right after the 90 degree at the top as fit falls down, put a 'T' there, and then at each end of the 'T' have a valve and then one side of the 'T' going into one chamber, and the other side of the 'T' going into the other chamber.

I think that whatever you do, you are going to want to put two valves in, one for each chamber, this way you can restrict the flow to one or the other chamber, thus forcing more water into one, or the other chamber.

kien

08-06-2009, 03:41 AM

Another option is to, again, cut out that section where the 90 degree drops into the sump. Replace the 90 degree with a 'T'. Have stem part of the 'T' drop down with a valve, and then the other part of the 'T' run a little further, then with a 90 degree, then valve into the second chamber. Or a valve right away out of the 'T' and a 90 into sump.

Eb0la11

08-06-2009, 03:54 AM

Yeah I was thinking about the valve idea, that might work. I want zero air in either of those tubes. I think Im most definitely going to have to cut into the pipe and put in a valve below like you mention. Wont be too hard, might take an hour or two max. Other than that this thing is running quite well. Water is nice and level, overflow works, drains work well etc...

As of right now there is not enough room in the sump for a power outage from back flow. So far my check valve works wonderfully to prevent any flow backwards as my system has been "off" for the last 6-7 hours and my water levels all are exactly the same height. I know I cant rely on this part but it'll help. If it did fail Id see likely 25G of water flow back, if it works well then Id see about 10-15G flow back. Right now my sump can hold maybe an extra 5-7G and then once I build my emergency reservoir and plumb it I'll have enough for about 17G which is good enough. If I had 8G of water spill on my unfinished basement itd take me 30 mins to clean up.

Im still going to plumb an emergency overflow reservoir that will remain empty at all times. I luckily have a hole drilled into my sump above the height of the water in one of my chambers and so I am going to just 90 it straight up but below the height of my sumps top edge and direct it towards my empty QT tank, and when that isnt empty I'll just shove it in a 5G bucket. This way I should have enough room for the water if a power outage should it occur.

I'll likely fix this plumbing problem tomorrow and then I gotta figure out this stupid skimmer needle pump and as far as I can see into the future right now my system should be working perfect, but Im sure I'll run into another problem seeing as how this is my first build.

fishytime

08-06-2009, 12:44 PM

I always recommend to pick up an extra check valve to swap in every 6 months to a year....most check valves fail due to a build up of crud on the seal....Just pop the old one out via the union and give it a soak in vinegar. Somewhat cheap peace of mind.

Eb0la11

08-08-2009, 06:02 AM

Replacing the check valve would be pretty easy. Its in a good spot.

Also, Ive picked up the parts to run an absolute emergency drain into an empty reservoir that I can hook up. After I get that draining into, say a 10G bucket or tub, I would be very very confident my tank would be almost flood proof 100%.

Anyways, I went to the store today and was looking at small frags in the sps tank and just got wondering - what special care exactly do SPS corals need?

Im going to have a 165G tank with three 250W HQI Metal Hallides and four 96W Blue Actinics. My water will be completely RODI. Using reef crystals for salt.

What else do they need? Im guessing some kind of dosing? What other care? Id love to have some.

Eb0la11

08-17-2009, 11:31 PM

Alright so I've managed to cut into my error in my plumbing and have replumbed my main drain from below my gate valve down. I originally T'd off into me refugium in a bad spot and also didnt have a valve after the t to force water into the refugium. Thats done!

Now Im basically fine tuning my used skimmer, which has been a headache so far, and think Im literally real close to mixing salt and putting some LR into the DT. Ive also plumbed in an emergency emergency drain that will prevent flooding completely should power go out or whatever.

Eb0la11

08-21-2009, 08:55 PM

kien

08-26-2009, 05:29 PM

Basically everything on my tank is now working except I cant get my stupid skimmer to stop leaking. I might be in the market for a new one. Anyone got a good skimmer than WONT LEAK, is out of sump and will be big enough for a 165G DT?

Where is it leaking out of, do you know? You could save yourself some money by locating the fault and trying to repair with silicon, epoxy or plumber's glue?

Eb0la11

08-26-2009, 07:45 PM

Yeah Im likely to that moreso than buy a new skimmer but as of right now Im draining my tank of all the tap water I was using to test out the system and Im making up a batch of RODI. So I'm going to start my cycle while I work with this skimmer problem. I think I'll make it work one way or another. Worst case scenario I rig up some kind of trough it can sit in that flows back into the sump if I have to. Im going to move where my skimmer is too cause right now its pretty hard to get to and thats partially causing the problems.

With it moved to the right side of my stand I'll be able to fine tune it easier. I should for sure be mixing salt this weekend one way or another which is super exciting. Been a slow process for my first ever build - made a few smallish errors, but thats part of the process and I think I have a pretty kick ass first ever SW tank so we'll see how I do.

Eb0la11

08-27-2009, 04:44 PM

Just wondering, once I mix the salt into my RODI water (I'll do this in the tank after its 100% full and I can get it circulating to mix nicely), should I acclimatize the 30 lbs or so of live rock I already have sitting in a tub heating/circulating?

BlueAbyss

08-27-2009, 05:38 PM

If the salinity is different (and there are any hitchhikers you may want to retain), it wouldn't hurt. May not be necessary if the rock is bare.

Eb0la11

08-28-2009, 06:51 PM

Ok, so when should I add my salt? Ive got the tank filled with RODI, its running. Sand has been added as it was sand from an old system that was running about a year ago and has absolutely no life in it (though probably some stuff thats gonna give a big ammonia spike which should help the cycle)

Right now I have some cloudy-ish water. Not super bad, but definitely cloudy. Im also raising the temp of the water now - aiming for 79 degrees. So should I wait until the temp is up and/or the cloudiness dissipates or should I get it in now?

TJSlayer

08-28-2009, 06:55 PM

I would get the salt in there right away unless you plan on draining.....

This way your can get it all ixed well so as you add rock, etc. it's good to go....

Eb0la11

08-28-2009, 08:12 PM

Ok, gonna add it soon here today. What do you guys think is the best way to add it? I have nothing in the tank but sand and its all churning with a couple powerheads and overflow/return pump. Should I add to sump or DT or what?

How quick should I pour it in? Should I mix it in a 5G bucket first or something and then add?

Eb0la11

08-31-2009, 06:22 PM

Hey guys, so now that my tank is full, I woke up to a slightly lower water line in my return pump chamber. This was expected but kind of forgotten about until this morning.

Basically I want to put together an ATO system and what I have on hand so far is a power fist Bilge Pump that does 200 GPH.

So Im wondering how I can rig this thing up to pump in water as the water line goes down? Im thinking I'd be needing to incorporate some kind of infrared thing or something? Or a ball valve? But that wouldnt really work cause the pump would keep going.

What kind of things are all you doing?

kien

08-31-2009, 06:34 PM

You have a lot of options for ATO. You can buy rigs like the Tunze ATO which a lot of stores sell. You can rig up a float valve (like the kent float valve) to refill your sump from an RO/DI unit. You can MacGiyver a float switch like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fci8P3uYs), or you can just buy a float switch ATO system like this (http://www.autotopoff.com/).

I use the last one from autotopoff.com. I tried very hard to find float switches in the city but was not able to.

K.

Eb0la11

08-31-2009, 07:44 PM

BlueAbyss

08-31-2009, 07:58 PM

If your evaporation rate is relatively stable, you could rig something with a digital timer. You would have to plumb it so it tees off the main line from your chosen pump, with a valve off each end. Run one to your sump, the other back to the freshwater reservoir, throttle the valve to the sump so it is just open a crack and throttle the other half way open. Don't run the hose to the sump yet. Set the timer for 1 minute, and measure how much water comes through the sump line in that 1 minute time. Figure out how much water you're losing and set the timer to come on for a minute at a time, however many times a day you need (my digital timer has 20 on/off cycles per day). If you need more or less water in a minute, you can adjust the valve accordingly.

Well, that's a cheap and easy way to do it. If your evaporation rate isn't constant, a system like this will need constant dialing in. But it's an idea if all else fails :wink:

Eb0la11

08-31-2009, 07:58 PM

Hey guys, I got another problem that is puzzling me. I have tiny micro bubbles being injected into my tank from my four returns every two minutes or so. I have no idea how any air is getting into my return line. My sump also has no bubbles whatsoever in it, so its not occuring here and the pump is not sucking in bits of air with water.

Any idea why its still going? I thought perhaps itd stop after a while of running, but its been like 48 hours. It cant be just loose air bubbles still in the lines. Anyone else have this and maybe know what I could look at?

BlueAbyss

08-31-2009, 08:00 PM

Are your pumps submersible or external? If they're external and there's no possible way your pump can access air, you may have a leak on the suction line.

Eb0la11

08-31-2009, 08:06 PM

Eb0la11

08-31-2009, 08:09 PM

Are your pumps submersible or external? If they're external and there's no possible way your pump can access air, you may have a leak on the suction line.

Pump is submersible. There could only be one place where a leak might be and thatd be my union and I just tightened it and dont think thats the spot but perhaps I'll check again or tighten more.

kien

08-31-2009, 08:09 PM

Wow, thanks Kien. I think that the autotopoff.com one looks like a winner to me. Not sure if you can answer a couple more q's?

Whats the difference between a single switch ATO and double switch?

Does this ATO system come with a pump or just a switch that will turn a pump on and off? Would I need to use this in conjunction with my bilge pump?

The double switch ATO has a secondary float switch that turns off your pump if it triggers. Here's how the whole contraption works..

1. First float switch detects the drop in water level -> switches on your pump
2. Pump pumps water from reservoir into your sump.
3. Float switch detects that water has return to a good level -> switches off your pump
4.... if your first float switch gets stuck, it won't register the rise in water so your pump will just keep pumping in water from your reservoir.. but switch #2 comes to the rescue.
5. If the water raises to the level of switch #2 (somewhere higher in the sump), then it activates and turns OFF your pump.

I don't see why you couldn't use your bilge pump. It doesn't have to be that powerful though. I use a wee little $10 no name brand pump that is submersed in my fresh water reservoir.

One note of caution when setting this up: Be sure to have the outlet from your top off nozzle higher than the top of the reservoir level, otherwise you will create a siphon and even when the pump is turned OFF water will continue siphon out of your reservoir!

K.

kien

08-31-2009, 08:15 PM

banditpowdercoat

08-31-2009, 08:56 PM

I have loc line out of water and no issues. I also use it on my Milling machine for coolant (its true purpose) no leak issues

Eb0la11

08-31-2009, 09:10 PM

Hmmm, I think I figured out the micro bubble problem. I'll have to work on it. Turns out there is a spot where water is falling from a baffle into my return chamber from a high-ish spot and is creating bubbles that are getting sucked into the return. I'll get it fixed soon enough.

So I got another question lol. Ok so keep in mind this is my first ever start from scratch tank, including my fresh water days. Ive always had some kind of seeded bacteria (such as in a filter or whatever) for FW, so Ive never gone through a brand new cycle really. Only small ones when I add stuff to the tank.

So yesterday I put in my live rock. You can see what kind of live rock I have here (http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=55503).

I only put in LR 'B' and 'C' from that list. LR 'A' is curing for several weeks Ive decided.

Soooo, I feel like I have good LR that has been well preserved and doesnt have much die off because today I took a reading for the first time (roughly 24 hrs after putting the LR in my tanK) and right now my ammonia level is zero and my nitrite level is zero as well. Nitrate is miniscule as well at between 5-10 ppm.

So obviously I have some denitrifying bacteria on my LR already. So my question is, do I have a bigger release of nutrients on the way that will cause a big cycle? I mean I thought I'd be experiencing it in my test levels by now. Am I foolish to be "dreaming" that I can add my CUC two days after adding my LR to a brand new system?

Eb0la11

09-04-2009, 07:43 PM

kien

09-04-2009, 08:19 PM

Ok so if my params read good again today I might be making a trip to the fish store for some of my cleanup crew. Probably start off small, get maybe 2 crabs, 4 snails and a couple star fish or something.

So Ive been running just my centre MH on my coralife pro for a couple reasons. The biggest being the stupid legs didnt work very well and so the stand is resting on top of the tank on some 2x4's and so I didnt want any lights heating up the wood cause itd make put burn marks on the light or I dunno. Just not a good idea...

So today I go to turn on the ballast that Im using to power the middle MH and the light comes on, is warming up and then flickers and turns off. Now I turn it on and it just glows real dim.

Is it burnt out? Was suppose to be a brand new bulb. Ive never had a light burn out on my aquarium, especially a MH so I dont know really if its another problem? Help? I used the same ballast to turn on a diff light and it worked, so problem seems to be the bulb or connection in there or something.

For the starfish it depends on what starfish you get. Some (or maybe most?) are very very sensitive and would not make a good starter/test creature at all.

Did you install the bulbs yourself or did they come pre installed in your fixture? Those HQIs are sensitive and you can not hold the middle part with your bare oily fingers or you will ruin them. You have to handle just the end tips or better yet wear gloves like those white ones.

If they did come pre installed then they are probably just defective or possibly loose? Try openning the fixture, taking the bulb out and re-seating it. They can potentially come loose during transport. Again don't forget to wear gloves!! My last light fixture (currents USA) had the T5s fail on me after a week and I had to replace them with higher quality T5s. I am assuming the ballasts you are using are the coralife ones that come with the fixture and not some other third party ballast? Some ballast and light combinations don't work too well together.

Eb0la11

09-05-2009, 04:16 AM

Hmmm, thanks Kien.

I ended up getting two brittle stars. They seem to be doing ok. My params look like my tank is pretty established. I'll keep a close eye on them and my params.

Quick question. What nitrate level do you usually do your water changes at? In the FW world it was good to keep it below 40 ppm but is it any different in SW?

Im going to do my first water change here pretty quick, prob do like 25G maybe more, but like I said my numbers are pretty good, so only nitrate to remove, no ammonia or nitrite or anything, there was literally no cycle cause of good cured rock.

This of course could change with the bit of livestock I added:

2x Nassarius Snales
2x Brittle Stars
4x Blue Legged Hermits
2x Peppermint Shrimp

Thoughts?

Also, I got an ID thread going in the reef section with what I think is a baby tiger tail cucumber, but not sure if some of you guys wanna take a look at the description.

kien

09-05-2009, 07:02 AM

Quick question. What nitrate level do you usually do your water changes at? In the FW world it was good to keep it below 40 ppm but is it any different in SW?

For me water changes are not triggered by nitrate levels. In fact, I rarely ever test for Nitrates anymore. I just do water changes every week (if I'm not busy) or 2 weeks at a minimum. Seems to be a good interval for me. Unless you have nitrate sensitive critters in your tank, you can usually get away with high (ish) nitrate levels. Some critters like clams actually feed off of nitrates.

Eb0la11

09-05-2009, 04:46 PM

So what percentage of your entire system water do you change? I have about 185G in my entire system (including the sump)

Is it the same as FW and change about 10-15% every week or 20-25% every two weeks?

Eb0la11

09-07-2009, 05:30 AM

Alright so I made more progress today. This thing is really coming along. I seriously think its like 3 weeks ahead of where I thought it'd be right now.

We hung the light from the roof and did a pretty good job if I must say so. Before they were just on some wood blocks raised up a bit off the tank.

I still need to get the electrical run so the whole system I'd say is only running at like 70% max power right now.

Still no skimmer, no full spectrum of lights and no refugium yet but everything else is flying. Levels are remaining solid after adding the cleanup crew and waiting three days. So we added two little clowns today. First fish in the tank and boy is it a treat to have them. So playful. Im gonna watch the levels and do a 25% water change sometime this week. We'll probably add a blue tang next weekend and some more snails and start aquascaping shortly after.

Right now priorities are on getting the skimmer water tight and also getting our electrical done so we can fire up the whole light. After that we'll work at getting chaeto and what not for the 'fuge.

So pumped!:mrgreen:

kien

09-07-2009, 08:15 AM

Eb0la11

09-13-2009, 02:15 AM

So it looks like my green algae problem is subsiding and things are starting to look good. I dont think my hair algae will last long. My lawnmower blenny seems to love it and clowns are even nipping at it.

When do you guys think I am safe-ish to add some more expensive fish? Im 2.5 weeks past my cycle and the livestock in my tank is doing very well.

2x Clowns
1x Lawnmower Blenny
2x brittle stars
2x nassarius snales
4x BL hermits
2x Pep shrimp

Eb0la11

09-24-2009, 06:26 AM

So we had the power cut for about 3+ hours yesterday and my tank drained to its lowest point in the DT all into the sump and...... good news - it didnt overflow!

That was good to see.

I havent had many updates lately because things are moreless going quite well. We are getting some nice coraline algae growth on the rocks that didnt have any and our algae is slowly going down. Theres still a pretty thick patch of it that we could get rid of manually, but we feel its slowly getting eaten - especially now with our sea hare that we'll keep until its all gone.

I think we're going to be getting a dwarf golden moray eel on the 4th to add to the tank! Im pretty excited. Also gonna add some more live rock to up the rock work this weekend. Ive been curing some stuff for about a month now and I think it should be good to go, anyone object to this timeline Ive given it? It was 6 month dried out LR from an old system that I was curing and Ive done three 100% water changes on it during this time as well.

Myka

09-24-2009, 12:31 PM

When do you guys think I am safe-ish to add some more expensive fish? Im 2.5 weeks past my cycle and the livestock in my tank is doing very well.

Imo, tanks mature much nicer and trouble free if you add fish very slowly. This gives time for the nitrifying bacteria to balance out with the fish load. You will find that if you leave your tank alone and don't add anything for 4-8 weeks (at any point in your tank's life) that often you will notice the tank kind of relaxes into a nice balance. Really helps with algae issues.

However, if you're the type that's in a hurry and you want to push it, you can add a couple fish per month. Once your cycle is over it isn't any more risky to add the first fish as it is to add the last fish. You should decide your stocking order based on aggressiveness, not price.

Eb0la11

09-24-2009, 09:51 PM

Thanks Myka, dont worry, Im not a pushy type. I know this hobby is about taking your time to let things grow, develop and balance.

I have only been adding 1-2 things to my tank once a week. Its a pretty big tank at 165G so I think that I'll be safe. Also been doing 20% water changes weekly to start.

Eb0la11

09-28-2009, 11:08 PM

Ok so Im going to try to get some pictures in the next little while, since Ive made some solid progress with my tank and Id love to show you guys.

Ive still got some algae growth but it seems like its slowly going away, but we'll see. Ive bought a sea hare to help with it in the meantime.

Ok so on to the updates!

1.) Lately Ive been hearing a clicking noise coming from the tank. I know, I know, thats a tell-tale sound a mantis shrimp makes. So Im wondering, wondering a couple things about it. First off, what kind of "click" does it make? To me it sounds like smacking two marbles together. Second, I dont understand why I havent heard it the first month I have had my tank running with the live rock in it that I bought? Is it possible it was dormant-ish (assuming it is a mantis) for a whole month? I havent added anything since my initial setup where it could have hitch hiked.

2.) We bought a golden dwarf morray eel this weekend. He is fricken awesome. I assume hes close to full grown because Id say he's right near 1 foot long and he is actually the coolest thing ever. Havent seen him eat just yet but he is definitely interested in eating as he pokes out when food is around.

3.) We also added a tang but Im not really sure what kind. Colby at Elite said it was a "Tamimi Tang" but I cant find any information on it. Anyone know what it might be that sounds similar to that? Its greyish with orange dorsal and anal fin. Its tail fin is white with a blueish tinge.

xtreme

09-28-2009, 11:12 PM

It could also be a pistol shrimp you are hearing. They make a clicking noise.

Here (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+43+334&pcatid=334) is some info on your new tang.

Eb0la11

09-29-2009, 01:58 AM

Could it be my peppermint? I am not sure, but I was sold a shrimp labelled peppermint. Are they the same thing? I was going to ask if it was potentially that. I think it most likely is, cause other than the clicking I see no evidence of a mantis.

BlueAbyss

09-29-2009, 02:21 AM

Could your tang be a Tomini tang (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+43+334&pcatid=334)?

kien

09-29-2009, 03:05 AM

Peppermint shrimp don't click or snap or bang anything. I doubt it is the peppermint. You could have a mantis in your tank for years and never see it. They can hide deep in rocks and only come out at night. The hitchhiking variety of mantis are usually army green and are quite camouflaged. The last time I had a mantis he was in there for months, like 9 months or so. I did see him (ever) until I worked on my 150g aquascaping this past august and left one rock out for too long. It just happened to be the rock
he was hiding in and he jumped out of the rock and onto my shoe. Scared the bajeesus out of me :-)

Eb0la11

09-30-2009, 06:22 AM

Hmmmm, Im hearing more and more clicking as the days go on. Probably 50 clicks tonight in groups of 6-8 at a time usually.

I am shocked at this turn of events cause it was no where to be heard for the first month the tank was up. Do mantis shrimp have the ability to make that clicking noise at an infant stage?

Can someone enlighten me on what kind of Mantis Shrimp I may be up against?

fishytime

09-30-2009, 03:41 PM

Just a thought.....I had a hermit that loved trying to climb up the silicone in the corners of the tank. He would try for hours, sometime making a series of clicks as his shell kept hitting the glass.

Eb0la11

09-30-2009, 07:01 PM

Hmmmm, I was looking at the tank last night for a good thirty minutes and cant see anything making a movement to go along with the clicks :/

I might isolate the rocks I anticipate it inhabiting one at a time into the refug until I can hear the clicks from in there, then I'll get him out. I think theres only 5-6 rocks it could be coming from.

Eb0la11

10-01-2009, 10:55 PM

Well, I got my eel to eat today which is awesome. So it looks like things are still going very well in my tank. Havent heard as much clicking lately but we'll see if it persists.

On a sad note, my Frontosa in my FW tank died and I have no understanding why. He was only maybe 2 years old and looked very healthy and everything else in the tank is healthy as well. I removed several fish over the weekend to sell at the auction but that should only make his life better but I can only really think that this might have had an effect on him. They werent even the same species of fish... :(

fishytime

10-01-2009, 11:02 PM

aw...sorry to hear....always loved fronts.....stress is stress....whether you were trying to catch the front or not perhaps the stress was too much?

Eb0la11

10-02-2009, 06:51 AM

Yeah its possible. I was shocked to be honest. I didnt see anything wrong with him really at all leading up to this. He was an unbelievable one too. So much nicer than the ones in the store. I think he was a Zaire one. My FW tank looks so much less crowded now. I might have to add a fish after I know things are back in order with it.

Eb0la11

10-10-2009, 07:47 PM

Ok, time for another update.

We've had some really cool things develop in our tank and one really horrible thing that happened.

I'll start with the bad. Our eel decided to commit suicide a week ago. I havent posted much in the last week because I was so ashamed that I even let this happen. We got the little guy and he was doing awesome. Swimming well, found a nice home in one of our rocks, was coming out quite regularly, we got him to eat nice and early and then we found him on the floor dried up.

We had a decent lid covering the tank, but he managed to evade it and escape through the overflow chamber which has an eggcrate screen in front and was make-shift covered until we could get a proper lid.

Because of that we've decided to slow down just a bit and sort everything else out before we keep buying livestock.

Since then we've been setting up the rest of the tank. We finally got a new circuit run from the breaker, a 20A one, and now we're getting the fuge going and our full light spectrum is now in effect instead of just half of them.

We have a deep sand bed of about 5" in our fuge that I seeded today from the sand in our DT. I'll also put in a couple choice pieces of live rock to help seed and then maybe in 4-5 more months we can get a mandarin once the fuge becomes a copepod factory.

Next we're going to get our auto top off working and figure out this skimmer that only wants to leak.

Once we have all systems going 100% we'll likely make a lid that is custom made for the tank that no eel will ever be able to escape from and we'll be looking for another.

Outside of that we have added three more fish. A blue tang and two blue/green chromis. We also bought two more pieces of live rock and a pulsing xenia coral that seems to be a 3 for 1 as we also have a new patch of about 6-7 quite small zoas on it and another coral I have yet to identify.

Next up, Im looking for some Chaeto for the fuge. Anyone willing to donate some of their weekly/bi weekly harvest?