Durso Question

[Eb0la11]

Is it important for a durso standpipe to have a cap on the top of it to prime it at all? I see that in this person's tank and wasnt sure if it was necessary? Or is it just there so you can shove a pipe cleaner down it to clean it?

http://www.notlehs.com/reef/salt2/durso.JPG
http://www.notlehs.com/reef/salt2/dursotop.JPG

[fragNplug]

Not to prime it no, it should have a small hole to ajust the air it will need to breath.
If you want to have it easy to clean, put a small joiner pvc near the bottom and put your durso standpipe on top of it and not glue it onto your bulkhead.

Then you can just pull out the full stem and clean it as needed.

[parkinsn]

You need the cap on top with just a small hole to adjust where your water level will be in the overflow box and to dampen the noise.

[banditpowdercoat]

you need the cap on top with just a small hole to adjust where your water level will be in the overflow box and to dampen the noise.

+1

[Eb0la11]

How does that adjust the water level? And the hole is right in the cap?

[fkshiu]

The water level will be at whatever level the T-fitting is at.

A Durso works by allowing a controlled amount of air into the draining process. The right amount will depend on a number of factors, but having the hole on top is what allows the air to enter. Ideally, you would have some way of controlling the air that gets into the hole with a small ball valve, for instance.

[parkinsn]

The bigger the hole the lower the water level will be in your overflow (we are only talking with in 1/2" or so). And yes where you put the "T" will be where your water lever will be depending on the hole size.

[JDigital]

Have you thought about going with a Herbie system instead?

[mark]

Have you thought about going with a Herbie system instead?

two bulkheads in the same overflow, definitely consider a Herbie. Personally been in front of 2 high flow (1900 and 2000ggph) systems and have to say truly silent. Here's a drawing from rban on RC that shows the idea. About the only changes to it would be suggest a gate valve (easier to adjust) and just leave the secondary dry.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h316/das75/rbarn_herbie.jpg

[Eb0la11]

That picture isnt in my tank but I do have two drains. I have 2" drains. Not sure if Im going to cut them down to 1.5 with limiting plumbing but that is the size of my bulkheads, so if I do ever want 30x turnover I can do it.

Does anyone have an article describing the build of each? Im only partially educated on the two designs but it sounds like a Herbie is better and I'd like to just do it right the first time if I can. Is a Herbie simple to install?

[fishytime]

If you look at the first couple pages of my tank journal thread, there are fairly detailed pics of all the parts and the plumbing. It is really a stupidly simply design,but silent and virtually foolproof. If you have any questions feel free to pm me.

[lucyw]

"Bow Valley Aquatics.
Mine will be done on Monday and I can let you know how it goes.

He has all the plumbing parts you need at the shop as well - not to mention a 3 foot grand cayman alligator in a massive tank just to show off how good he is."

It sounds like you could have got your questions answered from these guys.

L

[Eb0la11]

"Bow Valley Aquatics.
Mine will be done on Monday and I can let you know how it goes.

He has all the plumbing parts you need at the shop as well - not to mention a 3 foot grand cayman alligator in a massive tank just to show off how good he is."

It sounds like you could have got your questions answered from these guys.

L

Yeah, Im just gathering multiple opinions so I can form my own for what works best with my situation.

[Eb0la11]

If you look at the first couple pages of my tank journal thread, there are fairly detailed pics of all the parts and the plumbing. It is really a stupidly simply design,but silent and virtually foolproof. If you have any questions feel free to pm me.

How can I navigate to your build thread? I checked out the links in your sig and saw your tank of the month, which is gorgeous I might add, but not a build thread?

[fishytime]

How can I navigate to your build thread? I checked out the links in your sig and saw your tank of the month, which is gorgeous I might add, but not a build thread?

Here you go http://www.canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=40669

[Eb0la11]

Ok, so I got word from the shop I can pick up the tank tomorrow so I need to figure out my plumbing sorta soon. Not really super soon because I am actually gone all of next week and potentially wont begin filling/plumbing this beast until around the 19th but we'll see how this week goes if I have time to get live rock curing in the tank or something. It'd be nice.

Anyways, so for a herbie theres just two pipes, one is a standpipe, one is submerged straight pipe right? The submerged takes 95% of water by fine tuning its drain amount with a gate valve and then the other 5% is through the standpipe right? This will make no sound? I guess that 5% just runs down the side of the pipe and makes no sound, correct? I have 2" drains which should easily handle the drainage if one gets even completely blocked

I read this article about it: http://dinardiengineering.com/blog/?p=34 and looked at Fishytime's pics.

[banditpowdercoat]

A Herbie uses 2 pipes, One low down in the overflow, and one just above the "running" water level. ALL the flow goes through the lower pipe by way of throttling the Gate Valve. If the main drain gets clogged and can not somehow handle the flow, the level will rise to above the 2nd pipes level, thus letting the 2nd pipe drain. This will now cause a large gurgle, because it's a open pipe, which should alert you to "somethings not right with my tank"

I run this style of Herbie on my 150g Coast to Coast overflow and love it. Won't do a Durso again. Some do set theirs up so that the 2nd pipe takes a little trickle of flow. I see nothing wrong with this, other than maybe taking away from total possible 'emergency" flow.

I also have my 2nd drain, the emergency one, to drain with alot of height above my sump. SO even a trickle down my emerg. drain, makes a splashing noise in the sump, which alerts me before the level gets to gurgle height.

[Eb0la11]

Hmm, that sound alarm type of system is a great idea Bandit. I might do that as well. My 2 inch drains can easily handle all the drainage of the system so I can do 100% through the lower drain, I think.

Do you have a screen on the lower drain pipe? Also, is the emergency one still a durso style or is it straight up and down?

Also, if the lower drain takes 100% how do you "manage" the water level in the overflow box? I figured if you let 5% go down the higher drain then you could have the water line in the overflow controlled by the height of that second drain.

A Herbie uses 2 pipes, One low down in the overflow, and one just above the "running" water level. ALL the flow goes through the lower pipe by way of throttling the Gate Valve. If the main drain gets clogged and can not somehow handle the flow, the level will rise to above the 2nd pipes level, thus letting the 2nd pipe drain. This will now cause a large gurgle, because it's a open pipe, which should alert you to "somethings not right with my tank"

I run this style of Herbie on my 150g Coast to Coast overflow and love it. Won't do a Durso again. Some do set theirs up so that the 2nd pipe takes a little trickle of flow. I see nothing wrong with this, other than maybe taking away from total possible 'emergency" flow.

I also have my 2nd drain, the emergency one, to drain with alot of height above my sump. SO even a trickle down my emerg. drain, makes a splashing noise in the sump, which alerts me before the level gets to gurgle height.

[BlueAbyss]

There is a gate valve between the lower 'main' drain that allows you to slow the flow... it will take some fiddling to get it to work right, but the basic principle is that head pressure built up in the overflow box by the water sitting above the main drain pipe will equalize the draining of the overflow, maintaining a certain water level above the main drain. The secondary or emergency drain is to alert you that there is an impedance in the flow through the main drain.

What makes a Herbie quiet is the lack of falling water, rather the lack of water mixing with air in a turbulent fashion. No air gets into the main drain pipe, so there is no noise. This system can reduce overflow noise also.

[banditpowdercoat]

I'm draining a Little Giant 4 through a 1" line, approx 800-900GPH, handles the flow just fine. I do not have a screen on the intakes. Them being straight pipes, if a critter gets in there, just open the gate valve and plop, into the sump he goes.

[mark]

The height in the overflow chamber is also set by how high the the primary stub is. Can go from none (just the bulkhead) upwards. Advantage of running the water level in the chamber on the higher side is less waterfall noise into to chamber. The water will back up over the top of the primary a few inches but takes a little playing around, just dry fit the stub into the bulkhead (don't need to glue) so it's easy to remove to cut back if needed.

All standpipe can be straight. Don't know what you're planning on flowing but know my 2" drains with Dursos can easily handle 1000gph each and from the different calculators expect them to do 2000gph+ each.

[JDigital]

Do you have a screen on the lower drain pipe?


You should............ otherwise you will be in my situation this morning with a snail stuck in your main overflow drain! :bad-word::2gunfire: Guess I got some work to do when I get home..

[fishytime]

Your primary drain can be anything from a strainer fitting screwed directly into the bulk head, to a section of pipe, up to half way up the over flow. The bottom side of the primary drain, under the tank, should be plumbed down below your expected water level in the sump (with a gate valve). The emergency drain inside the over flow should be slightly higher than the operating water level of the tank. The bottom side of the emergency is left short of the expected sump water level (acts as the warning sound). The gate valve is used to restrict the flow in the primary drain, causing the water level inside the over flow to rise to just below the point where the water drains down the emergency. This means, in most cases, less than an inch drop into the over flow. I opted to plumb my primary drain half way up the over flow to make it easy to remove when cleaning. Don't glue or teflon tape anything inside the over flow as you want to be able to get that stuff out to clean, rescue fish, crabs, etc. Have fun!!!:biggrin:

[Toxik]

Has anyone tried the Hofer Gurgle Buster? How has it compared to the durso or herbie? I was thinking of trying this.

[fkshiu]

Here's how my Herbie looks:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/fkshiu/IMG_5561.jpg


http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c197/fkshiu/IMG_5560.jpg

I like to have a trickle down the emergency drain. I find that there's a wider "sweet spot" like this. There's no additional sound since the surface tension of the salt water makes the bit of water going down the emergency drain stick to the walls of the PVC eliminating any dripping, gurgling or splashing.

I've completely shut down the main drain with the ball valve and the emergency drain handles it without issue. Once the amount of water exceeds a certain level in the emergency drain then I start hearing the telltale gurgling and splashing.

[mark]

Has anyone tried the Hofer Gurgle Buster? How has it compared to the durso or herbie? I was thinking of trying this.

The Hofer is the sort of the same idea as a Stockman or Durso in that they draw in along air with the water. What makes the Herbie silent is no air is mixed in.

[Eb0la11]

Ok, so I pretty much got the idea of the Herbie down pat now. Thanks guys.

Now that Im a vicarious expert on Herbies I got another query; where exactly is water getting oxygenated if the Herbie doesnt mix air in the drain pipe with the water in a turbulent fashion?

I thought maybe this would occur in abundance in the skimmer with millions of micro bubbles, is this an accurate guess? Or do I need to worry about oxygenating my water somewhere in my system if Im running a Herbie?

Also, I think I'm 99% sure Im running a Herbie now, whereas last week I was 80% sure I was running a durso haha.

[mark]

skimmer, surface agitation, water dropping into overflow