local temperate species surving in heated tanks

[reeferious]

did a major sump cleanup today. aside from usual equipments i found these having time of their lives within sump's 75 gal confine. 7 mantis shrimps, 1 purple lobster, 1 pink lobster, 1 white antennaed spiny lobster, anemone crabs ,tangled mass of different algae, kelp, sealettuce, liverocks, and to my pleasant surprise 14 very lively locally collected shorecrabs that somehow had evaded their destiny of being live meals for my crustacean hord. it's quite obvious that some of these had survived for fair length of time for these are much bigger than ones i collected and periodically dumped into sump. no acclimatation allowance for temperature, salinity difference etc yet they have survived nicely. this gets me to thinking, if i collect a few local red, green, purple anemones and gradually acclimate them to my reef setting would they have any chance (hundreds and hundreds dollars saved)? has anyoneone tried this successfully?

[o.c.d.]

If fresh water puffers can be converted to salt I don't see why a hardy species couldn't adapt to higher temp, after all we all keep animals in synthetic salt mixes and trade coral from different conditions. Some survive some don't, you'll probably get the same results. Slow acclimation is what I would try and when I say slow I mean days, weeks,even months. Very interesting would like to hear what happens.

[hillegom]

That would be a worthwile experiment

[marie]

A lot of our local sea life has the ability to survive high temps for a short period of time. If you've ever put your hand in a tidepool you know how warm the water can get, in just the space of a few hours.
In the long term, it shortens their life spans considerably because the warmth speeds up there metabolism...they eat more and die quicker

[trilinearmipmap]

A lot of our local sea life has the ability to survive high temps for a short period of time. If you've ever put your hand in a tidepool you know how warm the water can get, in just the space of a few hours.
In the long term, it shortens their life spans considerably because the warmth speeds up there metabolism...they eat more and die quicker

Agreed but I thought anemones didn't have a lifespan, they just live indefinitely and keep splitting.

[fkshiu]

Agreed but I thought anemones didn't have a lifespan, they just live indefinitely and keep splitting.

I don't think anemones are immortal. At some point the "mother's" cellular structure will degrade to the point of being unable to repair itself. I stand to be corrected, but it is akin to plant propagation by cutting off a scion from a mature tree and then planting the scion to create a separate tree. The "mother" tree will eventually die as it goes through its life cycle and the scion tree will outlive its "mother" but it too will eventually die.

[Keri]

Wouldn't the 'nem nuke your tank when it died? I don't think they are as hardy as shore crabs. You could try it but maybe not in your main tank? (plus keep in mind those local 'nems may be fish eaters, they are pretty sticky) They are SO beautiful tho...

[RuGlu6]

did a major sump cleanup today. aside from usual equipments i found these having time of their lives within sump's 75 gal confine. 7 mantis shrimps, 1 purple lobster, 1 pink lobster, 1 white antennaed spiny lobster, anemone crabs ,tangled mass of different algae, kelp, sealettuce, liverocks, and to my pleasant surprise 14 very lively locally collected shorecrabs that somehow had evaded their destiny of being live meals for my crustacean hord. it's quite obvious that some of these had survived for fair length of time for these are much bigger than ones i collected and periodically dumped into sump. no acclimatation allowance for temperature, salinity difference etc yet they have survived nicely. this gets me to thinking, if i collect a few local red, green, purple anemones and gradually acclimate them to my reef setting would they have any chance (hundreds and hundreds dollars saved)? has anyoneone tried this successfully?

Tried local anemones twice never survived for long, wrong food or luck of there of?

[Myka]

Be aware that collecting wildlife from the ocean or tidepools is illegal.

A lot of our local sea life has the ability to survive high temps for a short period of time. If you've ever put your hand in a tidepool you know how warm the water can get, in just the space of a few hours.
In the long term, it shortens their life spans considerably because the warmth speeds up there metabolism...they eat more and die quicker

Agreed.

[PoonTang]

Clams will survive for about 3 days. Sea lettuce does well tho, and my tangs love it.

[golf nut]

Be aware that collecting wildlife from the ocean or tidepools is illegal.



Interesting.. but why?

[Funky_Fish14]

Interesting.. but why?

Your not really supposed to 'collect' (read steal) anything from the wild anywhere... Its kind of like poaching... (but just cause you dont kill it, doesnt mean its ok)...

[justinl]

bad idea. even tidepool species should be kept in a cooled tank. If you can't afford to set up a coldwater tank or just don't have the time, then you can't keep them. You wouldn't keep a tang in a fishbowl would you?

[hillegom]

Your not really supposed to 'collect' (read steal) anything from the wild anywhere... Its kind of like poaching... (but just cause you dont kill it, doesnt mean its ok)...

I am not going into the "wild" to collect cold water species and put them into my tank.

But I don't get it. People hunt, fish, collect flowers, etc.
I go sea kayaking and we always collect and eat from the sea. At work, we sometimes throw a crab trap out. I take the crabs home alive, in a bucket.
Its only one more step, into a cold water tank.

I can understand if the animal or fish is endangered, but if I wanted to establish a cold water tank, then I would just go get what was available.
I would have a salt water fishing license first mind you.
I do not understand why this would be illegal.

[Jason McK]

I do not believe it is Illegal to collect inverts and small amounts of fish from BC waters. It should be but it isn't

J

[midgetwaiter]

If fresh water puffers can be converted to salt I don't see why a hardy species couldn't adapt to higher temp, after all we all keep animals in synthetic salt mixes and trade coral from different conditions.

FW puffers can't be adapted to live in SW. CAN NOT BE DONE.

There are some species of puffer and many other fish families that are native to estuary areas and can adapt to different conditions. What you are thinking of as a FW puffer (Figure 8, Green Spot) is native to these estuaries. These fish have a specially adapted kidney that allows them to handle the transition and thrive.

There may be some temperate species that has the ability to adapt to tropical temperature, through some facility or another. However the vast majority of ocean species are cold blooded and as such the temperature of the environment determines their metabolic rate so it seems unlikely. You can see the issues this causes if you consider the case of the livestock that is collected off of California and provided to the trade. Things like Catalina Gobies, doesn't work well.

[Snaz]

I do not believe it is Illegal to collect inverts and small amounts of fish from BC waters. It should be but it isn't
J
With all due respect Jason and I mean that sincerely, I'm not sure I understand this response. I know where your coming from, protect the local environment and all.

But your response is hypocritical. While it is ok for you to put corals in your tank that come from other countries, some of which are endangered and certainly harvested dubiously it is not ok to pick up local creatures that are not endangered.

I understand that if too many people pick through the local tide pools we might create a problem for some species, that is the time to regulate it in my opinion.

[Keri]

You wouldn't keep a tang in a fishbowl would you?



:shocked: But my LFS said it was ok!! ;)

[o.c.d.]

So let me see if I have this correct a Figure 8 or greenspot puffer can adapt to a salt water environment. But FW puffers CAN NOT BE DONE! Is a greenspot or a figure 8 a puffer? If they are a puffer than Cannot be done is a contradiction and my generalization of all puffers should be corrected. I really didn't mean all puffers I meant the one the LFS employee showed me and said " these little guys can be converted to SW"... Thank you for showing me the way midgetwaiter

[Jason McK]

With all due respect Jason and I mean that sincerely, I'm not sure I understand this response. I know where your coming from, protect the local environment and all.

But your response is hypocritical. While it is ok for you to put corals in your tank that come from other countries, some of which are endangered and certainly harvested dubiously it is not ok to pick up local creatures that are not endangered.

I understand that if too many people pick through the local tide pools we might create a problem for some species, that is the time to regulate it in my opinion.

Hey Snaz, what I meant to explain was. I believe there are very little restrictions in our local waters for collection. I do know there are several protected areas for rock fish and other over fished species in and around Vancouver, but there are very little demand for local inverts and coral so maybe there is little need.
I have to assume(in order to sleep at night) that the items I find at my LFS have been regulated by local and international bodies like CITES to protect the species so that the aquarium trade can not cause the collapse of a species or environment

J

[midgetwaiter]

So let me see if I have this correct a Figure 8 or greenspot puffer can adapt to a salt water environment. But FW puffers CAN NOT BE DONE! Is a greenspot or a figure 8 a puffer? If they are a puffer than Cannot be done is a contradiction and my generalization of all puffers should be corrected. I really didn't mean all puffers I meant the one the LFS employee showed me and said " these little guys can be converted to SW"... Thank you for showing me the way midgetwaiter

You've got it, green spot and figure 8 puffers are not FW fish, they are native to brackish estuaries. Adult green spots spend a lot of time in mangrove swamps at full SW salinity as before they head upstream to spawn, like salmon or steelhead. I keep my GSP in a LPS reef tank.

There is a whole bunch of other puffers that are native to FW areas, arrowhead, target, fahaka, etc. Those will not adapt.