Anybody Keeping a Temperate Tank?

[Beverly]

Am considering setting up a 90 gal temperate tank to house captive bred pot bellied seahorses (H. abdominalis). One thing for sure is that we will need a chiller if we actually decide to set up this tank :eek:

Would like to know if anyone keeps a temperate tank and what kinds of snails, shrimp, macroalgae can withstand temps of 67-69 F? Will Fiji or other tropical LR be suitable for such a tank?

TIA.

[Van down by the river]

Hello Beverly,
I think asking someone from Vancouver Island to go collecting at low tide for you might give you some interesting critters. They can box it up, and send it. most of the tidal zone species are very tolerant of high temperatures.
This would be a suitable set-up for Catalina Gobies (Lythrypnus dallias) as well. The live rock will be fine, as many marine algae. You will probably have reduced growth rate due to the lower temp. Most inverts with the exception of corals and anemones should tolerate this temp, but a little experimenting will be necessary.

[Fishster]

You might think about live rock from the Florida area as the ocean temps are a little cooler especially in winter. I have found good information on cooler water setups to be pretty sparse at best so if you come across any good information sources please let me know.

I have been considering a cold water reef with pacific coast animals but the cost of the chiller has put this project off.

[Van down by the river]

The chiller may be expensive but the animals are almost free if you travel to the coast.
One note to remember when designing a temperate tank is to use thicker glass or preferable acrylic to insulate the tank and reduce "sweating" condensation on the outside of the tank which can ruin the appearance of your display.

[Aquattro]

Hello Beverly,
I think asking someone from Vancouver Island to go collecting at low tide for you might give you some interesting critters.

Van, my understanding is there are regulations regarding what you can take from local waters....I could be wrong, but I'd need to know before harvesting any critters.

[Van down by the river]

That is correct Brad,
but I think a blind eye is turned to personal use collecting of small amounts. A fisheries officer may ask you to have a regular fishing license.

You don't see them arresting kids for bringing home shore crabs.
I believe that those regulations are more in place to prevent wholesale/commercial collection.
A local dive shop might have a better answer, and easier than trying to contact fisheries as they may just say no rather than actually look into it.

[ldzielak]

I have wanted to get into a tank like this too, but the wife has set the limit for one tank in this house. I agree right now. I would suspect you would want to insulate 3 sides of the tank and maybe get a double front to keep the heat out and the cool in and control the condensation on the glass. Let me know how you make out.

Lee

[Beverly]

I think asking someone from Vancouver Island to go collecting at low tide for you might give you some interesting critters. They can box it up, and send it. most of the tidal zone species are very tolerant of high temperatures.

I'd be somewhat leery about putting "interesting critters" in with captive bred seahorses. Am currently trying to trap a few hitchhiker crabs out of my tropical 42 gal reef. Thanks for the thought, though :smile:

Most inverts with the exception of corals and anemones should tolerate this temp, but a little experimenting will be necessary.

I've got a sub-tropical captive bred H. whitei tank going where temps stay about 73-74 F. When tank temps rise, I turn on the AC and pop several saltwater ice cubes into their tank to lower temps. Astrea, cerith and nassarius snails, as well as three peppermint shrimp, are doing very well at these temps.

But temperate temps are quite a bit lower, so I'm a little concerned to be without a good clean up crew. Wouldn't like to go to all that expense only to find that I couldn't have a clean up crew :eek:

[Beverly]

One note to remember when designing a temperate tank is to use thicker glass or preferable acrylic to insulate the tank and reduce "sweating" condensation on the outside of the tank which can ruin the appearance of your display.

Good point, Van. However, we have AC to keep ambient room temps low enough for our H. whitei tank which stays at about 73-74 F, occasionally up to 76 F. In this instance, where ambient room temps will stay relatively low compared to a non-AC ambient environment, do you think condensation would be much of a problem?

[Beverly]

You might think about live rock from the Florida

Where in Canada will I get Florida rock?


I have found good information on cooler water setups to be pretty sparse at best so if you come across any good information sources please let me know.

Here's info Google found for me (in order of usefulnes):

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cold.htm

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/reference/as11.asp
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/reference/as12.asp

http://aolsvc.petplace.aol.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=2411

http://www.vincentps.sa.edu.au/salt_water_aquariums.htm

[Van down by the river]

My experience was with a full temperate system with a temp of 50-55C
and we have more humid weather here. The range would be less drastic for you. I don't think you will have a problem.

If you want to be sure, call a local company that provides live seafood tanks. If you can't find one. I suggest you take a thermometer and a tape measure to a local seafood restaurant, check room temp,tank temp, and glass/acrylic thickness. This should give you a better idea.

As to the critters, I would believe that there are comparable species filling the same ecological niche as their tropical cousins. You seem the type to do your homework so I think you'll be able to uncover what you require.

I will not likely be going into the ocean in the near future. otherwise I'd offer. I was thinking of suitable tankmates:
Bay Pipefish Syngnathus griseolineatus
Gunnels Pholis sp.
Sculpins Cottidae sp. Always check the sizes, some get big!
Sailfin Sculpin Nautichthys oculofasciatus
Grunt Sculpin Rhamphocottus richardsoni
Snailfish Liparis sp.

I've found many small flounders (size of quarter) and shrimp(5-10mm) in sandbar tide pools that I couldn't identify ( I have to admit I didn't try hard). the shrimp could serve as a food source for larger seahorses.

[zulu_principle]

There has been one for sale in the Buy & Sell with a chiller for $600 if anyone is really interested.

[Beverly]

There has been one for sale in the Buy & Sell with a chiller for $600 if anyone is really interested.

Looked through Buy/Sell/Trade and didn't see any chillers in the subject lines. Could you point me in the right direction?

TIA.

[zulu_principle]

50 GALLON dbl pane aquar, w chiller, for cold water aquar enthusiasts $699 obo. Richmond

Sorry, wrong on the price, you need to sign up to get his number. Check Buysell.com.


Wendell

[StirCrazy]

Asking some one here to colect will be useless as water temp right now is 52 degrees farenhite. I was wondering about it to and acording to the good Dr they cannot be climatized to the higher temps.

Steve

[Fishster]

Thanks for the links Beverly, very interesting. About the Florida rock - if you can't find a retailer who sells it you would have to order it yourself which would mean obtaining a CITES permit. This may be a lot of trouble so it may not be worth it.

[Beverly]

Fishster,

No, not worth it to me to go to all that trouble.

[jgoldsney]

Hey Beverly...

You may want to try visiting Jack at the fish pond. It is an edmonton home business but he is in the yellow pages.

I was there one time while he was making a special cold water tank that had insulation on 3 sides and he had gutted an old fridge and was using the cooling system from this to cool it. It looked realy "cool" :lol:

If you can pull this off I think it would be amazing, I have done some diving off of Port Hardy and the life is incredible. There is waaaaay more life in cold water than in warm water.


best of luck

Joel

[Beverly]

You may want to try visiting Jack at the fish pond. It is an edmonton home business but he is in the yellow pages.

I was there one time while he was making a special cold water tank that had insulation on 3 sides and he had gutted an old fridge and was using the cooling system from this to cool it. It looked realy "cool"

Joel,

Been to Jack's many moons ago. Thought the place was kinda creepy, but maybe that's just me :rolleyes:

Don't like the idea of using old fridges because the cooling liquids are outdated and not so environmentally friendly as new. Would like to buy a chiller that has a warranty, as well.

Also, want to see the tank from three sides.

If you can pull this off I think it would be amazing, I have done some diving off of Port Hardy and the life is incredible. There is waaaaay more life in cold water than in warm water.

Really, all I want is a temperate tank to house a particular species of captive bred Australian/New Zealand seahorse and pretty much do a species tank except for adding a clean up crew. Water temps in the tank would be about 67-69 F, more or less. Not looking to do duplicate a Queen Charlotte Island or similar Canadian marine environment :eek:

You guys sure have great suggestions on how to do marvelous temperate tanks :smile: I'll be looking for photos of what you all put together :mrgreen:

[kris]

Hey Beverly. Just a thought why not get a hold of some one from the Vancouver Aqurium. They have a whole section on tempretet tanks. A well i belive they where breading the same seahorses. They can be quite usefull at times. Oh also there is a company that builds there tank, i stumbled acrosse it a while a go. i was searching for info on breading jellyfish. ( and they did give me some information on that )

just a few thoughts.

[Beverly]

Just a thought why not get a hold of some one from the Vancouver Aqurium.

Thanks for the tip, Kris. I just sent an email loaded with questions. Hope they have time to answer :smile: