Flow plan for my new tank.. enough???

[nlreefguy]

Just starting to make plans for a new tank and am planning on a custom 36X24X24 in a peninsula style config on a custom stand as well. Just going through the flow possibilities in my mind and first thing I came up with was 2 nanostream 6055's on one end and the outputs of my closed loop on the other (possibly Sequence pump). Then I started thinking about simplifying things and thought maybe vortech's would be best.

Do you think that 2 MP20's would be OK? (both on the same end) or would one MP40 do? Or should I have even more? I've been rrading an awful lot of good things about the vortech route and it seems I could greatly simplify things without sacrificing flow.... is that actually the case? Thanks a lot for your input in advance.

Oh, BTW, it's going to be (hopefully) an sps-dominated tank.

[i have crabs]

I think your options will depend on your plans for the tank.
I assume you mean that the tank will be viewable from both sides and 1 end pannels?
If so having powerheads on the viewable end will kinda suck so i think vortechs on the nonviewable end would be nicer.
Also if both side pannels are viewable then the rocks will probably be stacked dpwn the center of the tank so 1 vortec wont be that great, 1 vortech blowing down each side of the rockwork would be much better, mp20's shpuld be plenty in a 36" tank but if the money isnt a factor i would get mp40's and dial them back a bit if needed rather than find out you dont have enough power.

[Aquattro]

I sent Steve a link to this for his input, he built the same size/design and had things flowing pretty good.

[JDigital]

Since you mentioned a SPS Dominated tank, I'm curious which softies/lps you are looking to keep...

2 MP20's would be 44x turnover + your return from the sump.
2 MP40's would be 71x turnover + your return from the sump.

That's only of course if you are running them at 100%.. I think closed loops are great, I got one myself, but I just got my hands on a MP20, and I gotta admit, it is a sweet piece of kit!

For you tank I would probably go with 2 MP20's plus your sump return. Only because you might have softies/lps... if it was 100% SPS, I'd recommend the 2x MP40 route.

[nlreefguy]

Since you mentioned a SPS Dominated tank, I'm curious which softies/lps you are looking to keep...

2 MP20's would be 44x turnover + your return from the sump.
2 MP40's would be 71x turnover + your return from the sump.

That's only of course if you are running them at 100%.. I think closed loops are great, I got one myself, but I just got my hands on a MP20, and I gotta admit, it is a sweet piece of kit!

For you tank I would probably go with 2 MP20's plus your sump return. Only because you might have softies/lps... if it was 100% SPS, I'd recommend the 2x MP40 route.

wow, really? 2 mp40's??? As far as LPS go, I have a Fungia, Favites, turbinaria reniformis (hard to figure out where to put that one, it's not quite an SPS and not quite an LPS, probably more like an SPS though) , I just discovered I have an encrusting Goniopora (didn't know what it was before), and my only softies are a Cladiella (my wife likes it) and zoas. The rest are montis, acros, porites, styos, seriatopora, a couple of echinos, and the like. Oh, and I have a couple of photosynthetic gorgonians as well, and some gsp and a tubipora. And 2 clams.... gee I have more stuff than I thought, all piles into a 33 gallon right now!

[nlreefguy]

I sent Steve a link to this for his input, he built the same size/design and had things flowing pretty good.

Thanks a lot, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say. I only want to do this once i.e. the right way the first time! I have wasted so much money on equipment upgrades since I started the hobby, it would boggle the mind!

[nlreefguy]

I think your options will depend on your plans for the tank.
I assume you mean that the tank will be viewable from both sides and 1 end pannels?
If so having powerheads on the viewable end will kinda suck so i think vortechs on the nonviewable end would be nicer.
Also if both side pannels are viewable then the rocks will probably be stacked dpwn the center of the tank so 1 vortec wont be that great, 1 vortech blowing down each side of the rockwork would be much better, mp20's shpuld be plenty in a 36" tank but if the money isnt a factor i would get mp40's and dial them back a bit if needed rather than find out you dont have enough power.

Yes, I want it to be viewable from both sides and one end as you say. I was kind of concerned about having the vortechs only because it seems like all my flow would be originating from only one side, but after reading what I have about the vortech pumps, it seems like it will produce excellent flow through the whole tank anyway, correct?

[i have crabs]

they definatly provide the widest flow pattern but the only way its gonna cove both the viewable sides is if its placed in the center, but having the tank viewable from both sides implies that the rock will be stacked down the center of the tank. is that your plans? if so having 1 vortec in the center is just gonna blow strait into the rocks and not really provide flow to the whole tank,
in my opinion even a mp40 isnt gonna provide overly strong flow after 36" of tank
i really think your decision is gonna depend on your layout of the tank and the budget you have to spend.

[nlreefguy]

yep, rock in the middle, maybe in a couple of "towers" with swimming space between. I want a lean layout this time instead of the "wall of rock" i have usually had.

[fkshiu]

yep, rock in the middle, maybe in a couple of "towers" with swimming space between. I want a lean layout this time instead of the "wall of rock" i have usually had.

Then put your flow generator (vortech, tunze, closed loop w/eductor - doesn't really matter which one) in the hidden end off to one side and you'll have a Gyre. It works the same way as a whirlpool that builds up centrifugal force as it spins round and round. It works best with an up/down pulse. If you want really fancy then simply put a flow source alternating on each side for reversing Gyres.

[golf nut]

If you have the source at the overflow end at the bottom,moving down the tank and the sump returns at the surface at the opposite end you will get a barrel effect that will guarantee surface water gets to the overflow and detritus is picked up and into the water column.

[StirCrazy]

Thanks a lot, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say. I only want to do this once i.e. the right way the first time! I have wasted so much money on equipment upgrades since I started the hobby, it would boggle the mind!

ok, so few questions first, are you drilling for a sump? and are you planning on having a sand bed?

the reason I ask, is in this size of tank is it almost impossable to get a good ballanced flow rate with sand with out resitricting most of the flow to the top 1/3 of the tank. I ended up with 4 tunze 6060's two seio's and and two Mak4 for return in my tank giveing me a water movement equivalant of 104X in the display. it was gental flow anywhere in the tank but I would have never been able to achieve this with sand.

if you are thinking closed loop, forget it with a 3 sidded viewing tank. if you were only viewing 2 sides, the best way to do a closed loop on this size would be to drill 6 holes on each end about 1 to 1.5" and put a big bad pump on that pushing about 5 to 7000 gph to create a current accros the tank then a few powerfull power heads to randomly mix it up a bit. but.

as for pumps, vertex look good, but if you want seriouse flow I would go with 4 20's in that tank. the problem will be hiding the wires as you want one down low and one higher.. you can get away with 2 but I can tell you that you will have lots of dead spots with low flow depending on how your rock is set up and how much you use. as for the 2 20's or 1 40. forget about trying to do it with one pump the dynamics in this size of tank will not give you good flow at all.

now there is another way to obtain lots of flow with with fewer pumps but it requires a specific set up for your rock for it to work.

Steve

[nlreefguy]

ok, so few questions first, are you drilling for a sump? and are you planning on having a sand bed?

the reason I ask, is in this size of tank is it almost impossable to get a good ballanced flow rate with sand with out resitricting most of the flow to the top 1/3 of the tank. I ended up with 4 tunze 6060's two seio's and and two Mak4 for return in my tank giveing me a water movement equivalant of 104X in the display. it was gental flow anywhere in the tank but I would have never been able to achieve this with sand.

if you are thinking closed loop, forget it with a 3 sidded viewing tank. if you were only viewing 2 sides, the best way to do a closed loop on this size would be to drill 6 holes on each end about 1 to 1.5" and put a big bad pump on that pushing about 5 to 7000 gph to create a current accros the tank then a few powerfull power heads to randomly mix it up a bit. but.

as for pumps, vertex look good, but if you want seriouse flow I would go with 4 20's in that tank. the problem will be hiding the wires as you want one down low and one higher.. you can get away with 2 but I can tell you that you will have lots of dead spots with low flow depending on how your rock is set up and how much you use. as for the 2 20's or 1 40. forget about trying to do it with one pump the dynamics in this size of tank will not give you good flow at all.

now there is another way to obtain lots of flow with with fewer pumps but it requires a specific set up for your rock for it to work.

Steve

Thanks for the info.... I was planning on having a sand bed. I have a bare bottom in my current tank and, I dunno, there's just something I miss about the look of a sand bed. If it's impossible, now mind you, I would revise my plan. As far as overflow goes, I was thinking about HOB, maybe a CPR c-siphon, but I could go with drilled I guess. I really haven't decided which is best. I have a HOB on my current tank and I've had drilled tanks in the past and I have to say I don't really notice the difference as far as funstion goes. I also kind of like the fact that the CPR looks like it will take up so little real estate in the tank. Kind of still up in the air with that one, I guess.

[golf nut]

When stirring coffee you always run the spoon around the perimeter of the cup, you never spin the spoon in the middle it sn't as effective and takes the same amount of energy..

If you stirred a bathtub with a large spoon it would keep moving for days to some degree.

Moving water at the lower 1/3 of the tank has a greater effect and is more beneficial than moving it at the surface.

Firing two power heads into each other cause less flow, they absorb each others power.

Water on the surface must move to the overflow otherwise you are not surface skimming.try dropping some sawdust on the surface of the water,
if it doesn't get to the overflow then the crap you cannot see isn't getting there either.

Using a 1000gph pump on a 100 gallon tank should typically achieve a 10 times turnover,
by simply moving the outlets to different degrees and positions this can reduce the effective turnover to less than 8 times and if done properly can increase it to almost 20 times,it is the direction of the flow which is the most important.

if you agree with all of the above then the best way to create dynamic flow is to use the outputs of the flow device to fire across the bottom of the tank away from the overflow, returns from the sump should fire across the tanks surface towards the overflow, if using a closed loop the feed to the pump should pull water in the same direction of the flow you have just achieved to enhance the flow not fight it.