To all Skimmer and Bubble King owners

[Skimmin]

Hey there. I'm just setting up a 6ft 210gal and have to ask. Is the Bubble King worth the money? I figure if I'm gonna spend the cash then protein skimming is a good place to spend it, but I've been getting a lot of mixed opinions on the BK(mainly based on price, bang for buck and a lot of new high tech and cone skimmers coming out recently). If the way to go is with the Bubble King then which model do you suggest for a moderately to heavy stocked system with a total volume of approx 300gal?

Advice from all appreciated
Thanks

[banditpowdercoat]

Tagging along for ideas for my 150g

[marie]

I have no idea if a BK is worth the money or not, but I have no regrets about buying mine

If you do get a BubbleKing though I wouldn't go any smaller then the supermarin 250 for a 300g system

[fishay]

You could get a bubble magus skimmer I think they are based on the bubble king skimmers but they are waaay cheaper. Theres a thread over on reef central and they are getting great reviews. I have a BM100+ (copy of bubbleking mini) and it works great :biggrin:

[Madreefer]

I have BK Mini 180. Awesome skimmer! It pulls about 2-3 cups of nasty skim mate per day on a overstocked approximetely 170G system. I've had it since Aug of last year and my tank has never looked better. I do not regret buying it and highly recommend them. Not the size your after but just commenting on the brand. Royal Exclusive has put out a new cone skimmer for Vertex that is supposedly gonna be kick ass. Will post results and pics in a few weeks when mine arrives. They are in demand and hard to get but if you give Dan a call at Aquatic Addictions he'll be able to help you out.

[subman]

I have BK Mini 180. Awesome skimmer! It pulls about 2-3 cups of nasty skim mate per day on a overstocked approximetely 170G system. I've had it since Aug of last year and my tank has never looked better. I do not regret buying it and highly recommend them. Not the size your after but just commenting on the brand. Royal Exclusive has put out a new cone skimmer for Vertex that is supposedly gonna be kick ass. Will post results and pics in a few weeks when mine arrives. They are in demand and hard to get but if you give Dan a call at Aquatic Addictions he'll be able to help you out.

and then maybe the BK is in my house!

Josh at Marine Aquaria said that they have a cone skimmer on the way as well.

[fkshiu]

Hey there. I'm just setting up a 6ft 210gal and have to ask. Is the Bubble King worth the money? I figure if I'm gonna spend the cash then protein skimming is a good place to spend it, but I've been getting a lot of mixed opinions on the BK(mainly based on price, bang for buck and a lot of new high tech and cone skimmers coming out recently). If the way to go is with the Bubble King then which model do you suggest for a moderately to heavy stocked system with a total volume of approx 300gal?

Advice from all appreciated
Thanks

It's the same as asking "Do I need a Mercedes?". Nobody NEEDS a Mercedes for their existence and the Japanese brands have the Germans beat when it comes to bang for your buck in terms of features, but Mercs still sell really well. By the same token, why do certain women pay through the nose for a Louis Vuitton handbag when a burlap sack fulfills the same function just as well?

Like Mercedes and LV, BK is a luxury brand that many people get, in part at least, to show off a bit (and i mean this in the most positive sort of way :) ). There are many skimmers that probably do just as good a job pulling crap out of the water as BK, but they don't do it with the same Teutonic aesthetic and engineering snob appeal as BK: titanium screws, half cm thick CNC laser cut cell cast acrylic, flux capacitor etc.

You get BK because you want to, not because you need to.

P.S. I'm perfectly happy with my current skimmer but I'd get a BK if it wouldn't cost me my marriage ;)

[Borderjumper]

It's the same as asking "Do I need a Mercedes?". Nobody NEEDS a Mercedes for their existence and the Japanese brands have the Germans beat when it comes to bang for your buck in terms of features, but Mercs still sell really well. By the same token, why do certain women pay through the nose for a Louis Vuitton handbag when a burlap sack fulfills the same function just as well?

Like Mercedes and LV, BK is a luxury brand that many people get, in part at least, to show off a bit (and i mean this in the most positive sort of way :) ). There are many skimmers that probably do just as good a job pulling crap out of the water as BK, but they don't do it with the same Teutonic aesthetic and engineering snob appeal as BK: titanium screws, half cm thick CNC laser cut cell cast acrylic, flux capacitor etc.

You get BK because you want to, not because you need to.

P.S. I'm perfectly happy with my current skimmer but I'd get a BK if it wouldn't cost me my marriage ;)

you forgot the most important thing.. its sexy!

J/k aside, I have a mini180 and love it. Its totally silent and has worked flawlessly. Is it worth it? After spending as much as I did for one.. no way would I answer no:mrgreen:

[midgetwaiter]

Skimmin and I have been talking about this subject pretty steadily for a week or so. He is unable to convince me that a Bubble King is a reasonable purchase and I am unable to convince him that it isn't. Here's my side of the argument:

The thing that I am stuck on is that I don't think these units are going to skim a whole lot better than something at a fraction of the price. There was an article published a while ago that supports this.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

The comparisons they did with 4 different skimmers based on different air injection styles showed that they all did about the same job with a protein analog in roughly the same amount of time. Unfortunately they didn't have one of the newer high end skimmer designs included in the testing so it doesn't seem to be a good supporting argument for this discussion. However if you take a good look at the article (and it's a beast I know) two things jump out at me that I think are very relevant.

In the controlled testing 3 of these older designs were able to achieve recovery rates greater than 90% when tuned properly. In fact it was the airstone model that managed the most consistently high recovery, which I am not surprised by at all.

Additionally when tested with real world tank water they all had similar results. The really interesting thing here is what the ceiling of those results are. The thing we want our skimmer to do for us is remove dissolved organics which we can measure as Total Organic Carbon. None of these skimmer was able to remove greater than 30% of the TOC measured. Because of the way a skimmer works a dissolved compound needs to have a structure that sticks to the bubbles or it won't be removed. Apparently 70%-80% of the dissolved organic compounds in your reef tank don't have the right structure and as such no skimmer can remove them.

So if I am able to get 100% recovery of available organics out of say a $500 ETSS Downdraft and realistically that is only 30% of the TOC in my tank anyway what am I paying 3x the price for exactly?

I can see three reasons to go spend a wack of dough on a fancy bit of aquarium gear.

1) It's going to work perform better than what I have. That doesn't seem to be possible in this case but I'd like to hear other people's points of view.

2) It's going to be easier to setup / maintain / tune. This is potentially important, it doesn't matter what a unit is capable of if it isn't setup right. However in the hands of an experienced reef keeper I don't think most skimmers are that big of a hassle and Skimmin is a pretty good DIY skimmer guy.

3) It's shiny. The BKs have a lot of shiny appeal to them.

So it seems to be that the only category BK (and other high price tag designs) wins in is the shiny factor. That's fine if that's the reason he wants to get it but he seems to think it's going to work better and I don't agree.

[Jason McK]

I have a 300 external and Love it. The ease of cleaning, the quality of construction and the materials used make it number 1 in my opinion. I have a 400G system so when you look at skimmer prices that handle 400G the BK really isn't that much higher in price. Look at H&S, deltec, Euroreef they are all around the same price as BK.

[marie]

I opted to spend a bunch of money on a skimmer because I was tired of cheap ones that I spent more time fiddling with then they did skimming.
It consistently produces the same amount of skimmate day in and day out and not once in the year I've had it, have I been tempted to throw it off the sundeck....

[fishytime]

I think perhaps the biggest difference is quality....those titanium screws will never rust....that 1/4" thick acrylic will never crack....etc. Properly maintained, a skimmer of this quality should far outlast lesser quality skimmers.

[trilinearmipmap]

I upgraded from a EuroReef CS-6-2+ with gate mod and meshmod to a Bubble King Mini 180 last fall.

I am happy with the upgrade.

The main advantages are:

1. Almost silent, compared to my noisy EuroReef.

2. You don't need to tinker with it, just dial it in then forget about it, reliable skimmate production day in and day out. Compared to my Euroreef which I was always adjusting to try and get the skimmate production right.

3. Rock solid build quality.

The disadvantage is:

1. Price. If you can't afford it, get a Bubble Magus.

[TonyR]

The new Deltec skimmers will be out soon,looks like they will be worth a look.

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/new-deltec-skimmer-range-more-information

[leslie hempel]

reef octopus make a very good skimmer based on the BK principle.. not sure if its available buy you guys though..

[banditpowdercoat]

The new Deltec skimmers will be out soon,looks like they will be worth a look.

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/new-deltec-skimmer-range-more-information

Just a hunch, Won't white be darn near impossible to keep clean in the sump?

[TonyR]

My bubbleking seems to stay white o.k.

[Drock169]

Vertex has new cones skimmers that are out that are supposed to be pretty comparable to Bubble kings

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

The Vertex Aquaristik cone skimmers are made by Royal Exclusiv actually. The two teamed up to make a cone skimmer of bubbleking quality (cnc machined parts) but at a much lower price point. Apparently it will be sold as Vertex but made by Royal Exclusiv.

The Alpha 170 is starting at $649 and the Alpha 250 is starting at $999 but that is just the presale price and then the 250 goes up to $1200 and the 170 to around $800. Not sure what the bigger one costs but I think it was like $1200 for presale and then $1400 regular.

This was info from a while back though...not sure how it ended up going for naming the skimmers.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

This where I had read about the new 'Vertex' but then I went to premium aquatics website and they have them only under the Royal Exclusiv name. Maybe Vertex is now doing their own cone?

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/new-royal-exclusiv-vertex-alpha-cone-skimmer-intro-pricing-and-more-photos/

[Tomjay]

I have a Deltec TS1060 Turbo skimmer and love it to be honest I can’t see myself getting a different skimmer or even going with a different manufacture. I have gone through a lot of skimmers over the years and this one works for me.

[albert_dao]

This where I had read about the new 'Vertex' but then I went to premium aquatics website and they have them only under the Royal Exclusiv name. Maybe Vertex is now doing their own cone?

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/new-royal-exclusiv-vertex-alpha-cone-skimmer-intro-pricing-and-more-photos/

Royal Exclusiv manufactures the units for Vertex.

[GreenSpottedPuffer]

Royal Exclusiv manufactures the units for Vertex.

Right that's how I understood it but if you go to Premium Aquatics site and check out the pre sales, they are being sold as 'Royal Exclusiv' cone skimmers. They do mention Vertex in the write up but not in the product name...on their site anyways and I am pretty sure they are the only store with pre sales.

Anyways, doesn't matter--looks like a great skimmer for the price!

[fdiddy]

The BKs also have a red dragon pump - mmmmmm

[nlreefguy]

I have a Deltec TS1060 Turbo skimmer and love it to be honest I can’t see myself getting a different skimmer or even going with a different manufacture. I have gone through a lot of skimmers over the years and this one works for me.

I had a deltec ap-701 for a while on a cube tank I used to have and I have to say I was very happy with it. I can't imagine the smell that would be produced by a skimmer better than that one!

[RuGlu6]

Skimming and I have been talking about this subject pretty steadily for a week or so. He is unable to convince me that a Bubble King is a reasonable purchase and I am unable to convince him that it isn't. Here's my side of the argument:

The thing that I am stuck on is that I don't think these units are going to skim a whole lot better than something at a fraction of the price. There was an article published a while ago that supports this.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2

The comparisons they did with 4 different skimmers based on different air injection styles showed that they all did about the same job with a protein analog in roughly the same amount of time. Unfortunately they didn't have one of the newer high end skimmer designs included in the testing so it doesn't seem to be a good supporting argument for this discussion. However if you take a good look at the article (and it's a beast I know) two things jump out at me that I think are very relevant.

In the controlled testing 3 of these older designs were able to achieve recovery rates greater than 90% when tuned properly. In fact it was the air-stone model that managed the most consistently high recovery, which I am not surprised by at all.

Additionally when tested with real world tank water they all had similar results. The really interesting thing here is what the ceiling of those results are. The thing we want our skimmer to do for us is remove dissolved organics which we can measure as Total Organic Carbon. None of these skimmer was able to remove greater than 30% of the TOC measured. Because of the way a skimmer works a dissolved compound needs to have a structure that sticks to the bubbles or it won't be removed. Apparently 70%-80% of the dissolved organic compounds in your reef tank don't have the right structure and as such no skimmer can remove them.

So if I am able to get 100% recovery of available organics out of say a $500 ETSS Downdraft and realistically that is only 30% of the TOC in my tank anyway what am I paying 3x the price for exactly?

I can see three reasons to go spend a whack of dough on a fancy bit of aquarium gear.

1) It's going to work perform better than what I have. That doesn't seem to be possible in this case but I'd like to hear other people's points of view.

2) It's going to be easier to setup / maintain / tune. This is potentially important, it doesn't matter what a unit is capable of if it isn't setup right. However in the hands of an experienced reef keeper I don't think most skimmers are that big of a hassle and Skimming is a pretty good DIY skimmer guy.

3) It's shiny. The BKs have a lot of shiny appeal to them.

So it seems to be that the only category BK (and other high price tag designs) wins in is the shiny factor. That's fine if that's the reason he wants to get it but he seems to think it's going to work better and I don't agree.


This is a very reasonable statement and i would agree wholeheartedly.

What people seem to forget is what skimmer actually is, the skimmer is an air mixing device.
So what will make a good one? More air mixing capabilities !

That makes an AIR driven skimmer a fair choice especially if you have silent and powerful air pump.


When i make my choice i look at :
1: How much air can this skimmer mix? anything less the 600 l/hr i would not consider.
2: What pump does it come with? It must be reliable, very quiet (silent is better) and be cost effective in terms of watts.
3.It must be easy to clean.
4. $ Cost.
And thats it! Personally i don't care what material its made from machined or not, lasers? who cares! It's acrylic, If you don't use ozone it will last long time regardless of how its made.

I had many skimmers since 1998 and above is my honest opinion.

Oh, yes and as mentioned by "midgetwaiter" one more thing that people seem to overlook is that what we really need to skim is DOC dissolved organic carbon and key word is dissolved.
So when skimmer cup is full of nasty smelling staff, how much of it is actual Dissolved Organic Carbon?
Maybe 30%, and perhaps 70% is just neutral small particulate and debris that already have leached all the organic carbons back in to the tank water, so what are we really skimming is a really good question.
jmtcw

[albert_dao]

Sometimes people like owning nice stuff. I paid $1200 for my chef knice. Why? Cause it looks like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/dmart/JKS/P1010111resized.jpg

And it cuts like a razor every time I touch the damn thing to any food.

But that's just what I think.

[banditpowdercoat]

Kicks the crap outa my $35 JA Henkel's LOL

[Bayside Corals]

I have personally used and sold many brands of skimmers. BK is worth every penny!

[Madreefer]

I used to own a BK Mini 180. Awesome skimmer. I sold it to upgrade to a Royal Exclusive Vertex Alpha cone 250. The only complaint that you will probably ever hear from a BK owner is that it comes with no instructions. The quality and materials used to make these can't be matched. Pretty much a plug and play with no tinkering. The crap these things pull out is unbeleivable, they are quiet and yes they stay white. With the cone, it is so simple to take every part of it off and clean. The reveiws you hear from a BK owner are very high. So feel free to listen to all the bashing from those people that have'nt owned one. If you can afford one I highly recommend them.

[Skimmerking]

I used to own a BK Mini 180. Awesome skimmer. I sold it to upgrade to a Royal Exclusive Vertex Alpha cone 250. The only complaint that you will probably ever hear from a BK owner is that it comes with no instructions. The quality and materials used to make these can't be matched. Pretty much a plug and play with no tinkering. The crap these things pull out is unbeleivable, they are quiet and yes they stay white. With the cone, it is so simple to take every part of it off and clean. The reveiws you hear from a BK owner are very high. So feel free to listen to all the bashing from those people that have'nt owned one. If you can afford one I highly recommend them.

I have owned pretty much every high end skimmer going and the other odds and sods, now when you look at what the skimmer actually does yes it makes bubbles but the pump makes the bubbles, not the type of acrylic or how think it is. However the bubble plate does enhance the way the bubbles flow to a point. Now the pump is going to help pretty much in 98% of the quality of bubbles. 1% is the way the skimmers being built, and the other way is amount of air going in to mix with the water.

When you are buying a high end skimmer like a BK , DELTEC, H&S. of course it’s going to be made to a certain way and the craftsmanship is outstanding.

it has to be doesn't of course it does. Or you are not going to pay that silly amount of money to buy it. I use to own a ATI BM250 love the skimmer wide body and a wide neck for a nice smooth transforming of bubbles instead of the 8 " chamber to a 4 " chamber. It’s a nice smooth effect you hardly get a dirty neck. It was the last skimmer that I would ever buy. However the SIcci 2500 pump are crap IMO and if that stuck a Askoll pump on there. Then the skimmer would be a rocket. I used to own a BK mini 200 I said that was it that amount of money on it and wow, t he reaction times isn’t that great thou for a big tank. IMO and IME. So I sold it.
The vertex skimmer is a beast thou
I like the look of it and the way it’s built maybe that is the type of skimmer that it’s going to stay on the market with the high end skimmer I know that Skimmin has one of these and loves it. I have a Deltec and it’s a amazing skimmer I truly love it. However people are asking me Mike if you love it so much why the BK SM 250. I bought it to help out a friend and Plus I'm curious too. I didn’t need the skimmer; The Deltec did my tank fine. SO I will take it off line and try the SM 250 to compare. If I don’t like it it will get sold the 250 that is. Some people love the EXT models for the sake that they want it. Some people need the internal models because they don’t want the room and they can’t afford it.

SO it’s going to depend on
$$$$$
EXTERNAL
INTERNAL
SIZE
HEIGHT
and IF you are crazy enough to go and try all the ways here. mmmm ASMODEUS u are retarded lol I KNOW.

At the end of the day its going to be your opinion.

[lastlight]

OMG you aren't RUNNING the BK yet?

Lol..dude...that Deltec will be for sale in a hurry!

You didn't *think* you needed it. Once you use it...you'll realize you DID :mrgreen:

[Skimmerking]

hey you want a good skimmer Brett i will have one for sale. :biggrin:

And how is the heck can I have it running. I visited Leah yesterday and I was going to bring it up , however she didnt have a sump :sad:

[lastlight]

Oh you're still travelling about...finding yourself =) I look forward to nog shots soon...as well as your post in the buy/sells :biggrin:

[Skimmerking]

hey pm me if you are serious then

[lastlight]

Lol I'm serious about you selling that Deltec =) I'm pulling the trigger on one of those budget Bubble Magus'!