View Full Version : Why is my MJ1200 with SureFlow mod doing this?
Sometimes it fixes itself, and sometimes I have to unplug it. The propeller is sliding up the shaft, and the petals of the propeller are whacking into a tab on the inside of the basket end. I'm thinking I could nip the tab off, but i'm not sure what it's purpose is. Anyone know why this is happening?
I just bought the pump used, soaked it in vinegar, and put it in my tank. It started doing this right away.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/th_MVI_0404.jpg (http://s85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/?action=view¤t=MVI_0404.flv)
Delphinus
05-25-2009, 12:53 AM
The tab is there to ensure the prop spins in the right direction, since powerheads can spin both ways. If it starts up in the "reverse" direction the prop should suck itself outwards, and then hit that tab and bounce off and start spinning in the forward direction.
If it is constantly hitting it though, then something's up. One thing I have noticed with these SureFlow kits is that the shaft itself will corrode and fall apart. It looks solid until you pull it out of the magnet and then it's obvious that it's done for. I've found with mine I can't really get more than a year out of these Sureflow kits, but who knows, YMMV, I don't really get a lot of good luck with stuff in this hobby myself. But this is what I would check for on yours.
Thanks Tony! I figured there was a reason for the tab. I just pulled the shaft out, and there is not a speck of rust on it, but it is scratched up. I think that owul dbe normal though...?
Canuckgod420
05-25-2009, 01:40 AM
mine does that to....all I do is give it a squirt through the front with my turkey baster( detritus getter outter from live rock) and it starts to spin in the right direction.
I stuck my finger in it, and can get it going again, but it keeps doing this...like every couple minutes.
Tom R
05-25-2009, 03:37 AM
I had one and it sucked water in more than it pushed water out. I tried everything I could think of and finally I changed to the smaller propeller 1600 GPH and worked. I would never buy another one.
Tom R
Denis
05-25-2009, 03:49 AM
Sometimes it helps if you trim the white propeller with scissors. Better than using the black one.
I only have the white propeller. That's the bigger one isn't it?
EDIT: Upon closer inspection, I think the propeller is spinning the wrong direction. How do I fix that?
Boomboy
05-25-2009, 04:41 AM
try turning it off and then back on, i did a mod on a 1200 not what you are doing and i found that plugging it in made it go one way and then unplugging and plugging back in made it go the other way. just a thought try that and see if it works. i could be totally wrong though.
mike31154
05-25-2009, 05:04 AM
Sounds weird. As mentioned, AC powerheads will spin in either direction when plugged in and with the original impeller, it doesn't matter, since it's not directional, it pushes water through the volute either way. As noted, the tab is there to try and bounce it into the proper direction when fitted with a propeller.
It is possible that the propeller may be fitted on to the shaft the wrong way around though. When you look at the prop from the side, you should notice that the blade tines are sort of flat on one side and curved, or rounded on the opposite side. If I'm not mistaken, the flat part should be at the front, away from the powerhead body and the curved part at the back. Don't know if that description makes sense. If not, I'll try to come up with a pic or something.
Edit. Photos attached where the pen represents the driveshaft. Correct, Incorrect, and a moded Aquaclear impeller with prop in correct config.
4465
4466
4467
Delphinus
05-25-2009, 06:04 AM
You'd almost think it wouldn't matter if the prop was upsidedown on the shaft though, since if its sucking water instead of pushing, it will pull out and hit the tab.
If it's happening every few minutes and the shaft is OK .. hmmm. I've never used the big props, mine are older and from the time they didn't give you the two. So I don't know if it's just something to do with the bigger one .. but it seems to me if it's hitting the tab and switching directions ... then hitting the tab again a few minutes later, then it must have switched directions in that time. Dodgy electricals? It's not running on a wavemaker is it (seems like an obvious question but I'll ask it anyhow).
(And if so, I found they really don't last when on wavemakers. Everytime they startup, there's a little vibration in the whole unit. This eventually distresses the little holder-arm thing that attaches the powerhead to the glass magnet, and it breaks at the socket point. I tried all manners of fixing it, but basically once this is gone, it's gone, nothing I could think of would keep it fixed longer than a week or so.)
fkshiu
05-25-2009, 06:22 AM
The propellor is spinning the wrong way and is hitting the tab which is designed to make it spin the correct direction. What is probably happening to prevent this is the greater interial mass of the white (bigger) propellor is preventing the proper bounce back. The smaller (black) propellor does not have this problem on Sureflow kits. All the snapping against the tab puts extreme torque on the propellor which will eventually tear it apart. This is why you should NOT use these things on a wavemaker.
How do I know this? Numerous tries on building my own "maxi-streams" out of various bits and pieces before there were DIY kits available along with reading the monstrous thread on RC. The bottom line is that if you get too greedy and push the envelope (i.e. the bigger white propellor on a Maxijet 1200) you're going to run into trouble. Remember, this is - after all - a DIY project. One of my Franken-streams is now the dedicated salt mixer - a job it excels at but makes a big racket doing.
If you stay conservative and use the smaller black prop on a Maxijet 900 it shouldn't give you any problems. I've had my Sureflow going without issues for over a year now.
mike31154
05-25-2009, 06:24 AM
You'd almost think it wouldn't matter if the prop was upsidedown on the shaft though, since if its sucking water instead of pushing, it will pull out and hit the tab.
If it's happening every few minutes and the shaft is OK .. hmmm. I've never used the big props, mine are older and from the time they didn't give you the two. So I don't know if it's just something to do with the bigger one .. but it seems to me if it's hitting the tab and switching directions ... then hitting the tab again a few minutes later, then it must have switched directions in that time. Dodgy electricals? It's not running on a wavemaker is it (seems like an obvious question but I'll ask it anyhow).
I thought maybe an electrical problem as well, since once it hits the tab on initial start up and then starts spinning in the desired direction, it should continue to run smoothly until power is cut off and it is restarted. Myka did mention that it seems to be running in the wrong direction though. If the prop is mounted upside down, perhaps the curvature prevents it from properly engaging the kicker tab???
It is possible that the propeller may be fitted on to the shaft the wrong way around though.
Mike, you are BRILLIANT!! :D
The prop when it spins one way rams right into the tab, but if it goes the other way because the prop is slanted if it hits the tab it just slides up it.
I think it's actually messed up and spinning the wrong way because it took some serious efforts to get the propeller off which makes me think that no one turned it around. BUT, it worked!!! Well, it's been running for about 5 mins and hasn't messed up yet. So...fingers crossed. :) I'll see how it runs, but it's doing ok now. Has a bit of a vibrating hum to it though...but I think once my MH setup gets here and the fans are going I wouldn't hear the hum of this powerhead. Every once in awhile it puts out a fairly loud buzz. This is my first try at these SureFlow kits...so far, thumbs down. Noisy! (even at the best of times...maybe better when they are new though)
I didn't get the smaller black propeller, which I am a bit disappointed because I wanted to put the smaller one in a 900 and use the bigger one in the 1200. :D Extra greedy.
Delphinus
05-25-2009, 04:47 PM
Glad you've figured it out but boy that doesn't make sense. The powerhead can spin either way, so if the prop was upside down it just needs to spin the other direction if it's going backwards at startup. :neutral:
Oh well, apparently I'll just hurt myself if I think about it any longer ... so I'm not going to. :p Either way I'm glad you figured it out. But yeah, these kits are good for giving you flow in a hurry without spending gobs of cash, but that's about it. Like anything I guess ya gets what you pays for.
mike31154
05-25-2009, 04:50 PM
Great, glad it's working for you... so far. Dunno about brilliant though, I'm not filthy rich, call it logical, although I don't have pointy ears, har har. Probably all the good training for my tech. career fixing aircraft instrument electrical systems. And yes, I did have the opportunity to work on some old prop jobs there, as well as the jets.
It was a long shot, but lucky I guess. I've never seen the Maxi Jet mod up close, but I tried to mod a couple of AquaClear power heads with propellers I purchased at hobby shops. The smaller ones seemed to work better, fkshiu's theory on mass of the larger prop has merit, I'm sure. When I fitted a prop to an AquaClear 802 and finally got it to spin in the right direction, the thing went nuts! So much power I could have emptied my tank in a few minutes with the water slopping over the rim!
Now with respect to the vibrating hum, I suspect that may be due to a slight imbalance and the fact that you're working with a longer shaft than the original design of the Maxi Jet. A minor misalignment of either the prop or the shaft will contribute to this excess vibration & noise. You almost need a secondary bearing farther up the shaft to minimize or eliminate any misalignment or flex. My fellow mechanical type techs had some pretty sophisticated equipment to balance props on aircraft & track rotors on helicopters. It doesn't take much to make equipment rotating at high speed self destruct. Even a few grams of difference can be huge and alignment is crucial as well. If it gets out of hand, or before it does, it might be worthwhile to ensure the prop is fitted as straight as possible on the shaft and that the shaft itself is not off at a slight angle. Then again, every time the prop hits the tab, it may mess up any effort you make to keep things straight.
Great mods for the money, but I'm glad I have my VorTech, it's designed with a prop in the first place and has a controllable DC motor, too bad the price is so hard to take. Wonder how the previous owner of the Maxi Jet dealt with the issue you experienced??
Live long and prosper.
Ya, I don't understand why it's spinning backwards, and ALWAYS spins backwards, not just on startup. I can't even get it to spin the right way if I stick my finger in it (which hurts btw).
The only reason I bought it is because I was in need of some cheap water movement for now until I buy a Wavebox and/or VorTech or...?
Oh, and no it's not on a wavemaker.
mike31154
05-25-2009, 05:17 PM
Ok, now you've got me confused. Always spins backwards? So it is currently drawing water through the front and pushing it out the sides/cage? I can't conceive of how that would work without the prop continually hitting the tab since the shaft & prop would be moving towards the front of the cage & tab? Where exactly is this tab located, at the front end of the cage, perimeter?? Should be a 50/50 chance that the thing will spin in either direction at start up and half the time not even hit the tab on start up. Just too difficult to visualize what you're describing.
Delphinus
05-25-2009, 05:18 PM
Clearly, she's plugged it in upsidedown. I'll refrain some making any blonde references now. :p
mike31154
05-25-2009, 05:23 PM
That's it, her stunning good looks are making the electrons run backwards.
:lol:
Well, it was freakin difficult to get that propeller off the shaft and turn it around, so I'm assuming that no one took it off and put it back on backwards, so that makes me think that the propeller is spinning in the opposite way that is was intended. If you look at the propeller from the front it is spinning counter-clockwise. It spins the same way every time I plug it in.
Oh, and the frickin thing is going to be banned to salt mixing as soon as I find a replacement. It is obnoxiously loud. Grr.
fkshiu
05-26-2009, 05:18 AM
:lol:
Well, it was freakin difficult to get that propeller off the shaft and turn it around, so I'm assuming that no one took it off and put it back on backwards, so that makes me think that the propeller is spinning in the opposite way that is was intended. If you look at the propeller from the front it is spinning counter-clockwise. It spins the same way every time I plug it in.
Oh, and the frickin thing is going to be banned to salt mixing as soon as I find a replacement. It is obnoxiously loud. Grr.
The flat side of the propellor should be in front.
If it is facing correctly, then you should try shaving the propellor down a bit with a dremel tool to make it smaller.
Oops, I forgot to mention that it is pushing water out, not sucking it in. It has never made the water go backwards. The tabs get in the way, and don't allow the prop to spin that way.
fkshiu: I'm not sure what you mean about the flat side in front? Do you mean the flatter edge of each petal should be leading the spin, not following?
The guy I bought it off is sending me the black propeller, so hopefully that one will work better.
fkshiu
05-26-2009, 05:31 AM
Oops, I forgot to mention that it is pushing water out, not sucking it in. It has never made the water go backwards. The tabs get in the way, and don't allow the prop to spin that way.
fkshiu: I'm not sure what you mean about the flat side in front? Do you mean the flatter edge of each petal should be leading the spin, not following?
The guy I bought it off is sending me the black propeller, so hopefully that one will work better.
Go back to page 1 of this thread and look at Mike31154's pictures. The top picture shows the correction propellor orientation.
If you put the black one in a Maxijet 900 it should definitely work better although you won't get quite as much flow.
I will check the prop orientation tomorrow when the lights are on. I would rather have less flow than all this noise. I just need to get by for a couple months or so. Good thing I have LPS, not SPS! :D
dsaundry
05-26-2009, 03:35 PM
Taggin along, my MJ mod actually spins the cover off sometimes..
Fkshiu, the orientation of the propeller is backwards now that I have flipped it around. The flat side is following, not leading. It won't work with the flat side leading. So that would further point to the fact that the propeller is actually spinning the "wrong" way right?
mike31154
05-26-2009, 03:45 PM
:lol:
Well, it was freakin difficult to get that propeller off the shaft and turn it around, so I'm assuming that no one took it off and put it back on backwards, so that makes me think that the propeller is spinning in the opposite way that is was intended. If you look at the propeller from the front it is spinning counter-clockwise. It spins the same way every time I plug it in.
Oh, and the frickin thing is going to be banned to salt mixing as soon as I find a replacement. It is obnoxiously loud. Grr.
OK Myka, going by your current description, it's working as intended, pushing the water through the front of the cage. Looking at the spare hobby propeller I have in front of me, if it's built the same way as yours, counter-clockwise is the way you want it to spin since that will push the water which is what you want. I'm not sure what makes you think this is the opposite way as intended. How about taking a quick close up photo of the shaft & prop to show us what it's looking like?
I think it's going the opposite way it's supposed to because when I have the propeller fitted the proper way it hits the tab which is apparently intended to stop it and make it go the other way.
Here it is now:
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/IMG_0418.jpg
This pic I'm hoping you can see the tab I'm talking about on the left side of the inside. You're looking at the end the water flows out of.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k43/Myka82/IMG_0417.jpg
mike31154
05-26-2009, 04:21 PM
Fkshiu, the orientation of the propeller is backwards now that I have flipped it around. The flat side is following, not leading. It won't work with the flat side leading. So that would further point to the fact that the propeller is actually spinning the "wrong" way right?
Ha, ha, so my assumption was incorrect in that it may have been flipped around, so much for my brilliance! It 'should' work more efficiently if you return it to the original orientation, but that seemed to give you more grief than the current config...
In any case, either way the propeller is flipped, provided it spins counter clockwise (and the tabs take care of that), it will push water out the front, as intended. The flat side leading is supposedly the correct orientation, but who knows... it's now once again a mystery.
mike31154
05-26-2009, 04:27 PM
Aha, photos, fantastic. The difference in leading & trailing portions of that prop is nowhere near as radical as the one I have. As per your assumption, I don't think any previous owner has flipped it around, so you should probably return it to the original config. Hopefully it will still work.
If there are any hobby shops in your area, model boats, planes etc. check them out, they may stock small plastic propellers you can try in the place of the one you have... while you're waiting for the black one to arrive in the mail. Hopefully you don't end up breaking it in an effort to get it off again... good luck and we're anxiously awaiting the results..
Tom R
05-26-2009, 04:30 PM
I could not stop the larger propeller from going the wrong way. I tried inserting washers to take up the slack I finally glued it and even the it would go the wrong way. I finally switched to the smaller propeller and it has worked ever since. It must be something to do with the torque on the large propeller and the wear and tear on an older MJ1200. Have you tried a new MJ1200 to see if that works. I believe MJ1200 will run in either direction. I have just turned the plug to reverse the flow however after a period of time the pump will reverse direction again.
I would not buy another one of these mod kits. I contacted the maker and they sent me all new parts in an effort to get it going.
Tom R
But Mike, it doesn't work at all when the propeller is turned around the right way. I will just wait for the smaller prop, and see how that works. Either way, it will still make a good salt mixing powerhead! :D
Thanks for your review Tom! I also will not buy another one! :lol:
mike31154
05-26-2009, 04:36 PM
There we go, more input from another actual Sure Flow mod owner, that's what we need, not wild theories from schmucks like me. Sounds like that large prop was just not meant to be.
mike31154
05-26-2009, 04:38 PM
But Mike, it doesn't work at all when the propeller is turned around the right way. I will just wait for the smaller prop, and see how that works. Either way, it will still make a good salt mixing powerhead! :D
Thanks for your review Tom! I also will not buy another one! :lol:
Yeah, I guess if it works in the current mode, let it be. Might be a viable solution for other mod owners.
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