From collection to the LFS

[my2rotties]

So how does this work?

Fish are collected... then who are they brought to?

From those people to whom?

Where do these fish live from place to place?

How many days to weeks does this take? Are the fish put into different bags through transport? Do they eat? Is it basically snatch from the ocean, to one place and then to the store?

How are they really cared for? Is there any good websites to show what happens? I just wonder how it all goes down, since I know how we have to be careful for diseases and water quality and such. I just have really no clue what is all involved in this whole thing.

[OceanicCorals-Ian-]

The fishermen/women go out and collect the fish/corals. This is usually done over a period of a couple of days to about a week; depending on the type of fish/corals the fishermen/women are after and how far away they mush travel by boat.

Once collected the fish are placed in holding tanks that is fed with fresh seawater or they are kept in holding tanks that is being water changed all the time.

The collectors bring the livestock to exporters that they work for and the fish/corals are then placed in holding systems at the warehouse awaiting export. This process could take days or a week depending on the exporter's customers' demand. The fish are generally not fed at this point while awaiting export because the exporters don't want the fish to mess in the bag and die from ammonia poisoning.

Once an order has been placed by the international importer, the fish are bagged with seawater and oxygen and are packaged usually a few hours to a day prior to shipping. For a typical Indonesian fish/coral shipment; the livestock generally are in the bags for about 22-30 hours before arriving to Vancouver.

Indonesia to Vancouver is usually a direct flight and 90% of the time; the water in the bags are still warm.

It is also worth mentioning that as the fish are traveling in the bags, the PH levels of the water is decreased rendering the ammonia that is released by the fish's waste to be not harmful.

However, when the importer receives the fish; care must be taken that when fresh oxygen is reintroduced to the water by way of releasing the fish into a acclimating bucket; they must neutralize the ammonia and slowly increase the PH levels to that of the holding tanks. If this is not done or is done too quickly; the fish will get stressed out and this is when pathogens that the fish are usually immune to are able to take a foot hold and attack the stressed fish.

Acclimatization of livestock usually takes over a course of 4-6 hours depending on the type of livestock that is being received.

The mortality rate of the livestock is very dependent on how the fish is collected from the fishermen to how they were stored on the boat to the condition of the exporters warehouse and how long they were kept there waiting for export. Then it comes down to the receiving of the livestock and the care of their acclimatization process.

HTH.

Ian.

[my2rotties]

Thanks for such a clear and concise answer:smile:

[phreezee]

I've helped recieve an order at an LFS before and I've seen them dump acid into the tanks to decrease the PH, drop the fish in and slowly bring the PH back up. Pretty cool experience.

[my2rotties]

Sounds barbaric, but cool. I would love to be around and see how this all gets done.

I've helped recieve an order at an LFS before and I've seen them dump acid into the tanks to decrease the PH, drop the fish in and slowly bring the PH back up. Pretty cool experience.

[mark]

isn't there also a step from the importer to the LFS as they're not necessarily the same?

[BlueAbyss]

I would assume that there are some wholesalers out there, but I doubt many (if any) that specialize in saltwater fish in Canada? And even then, it would make more sense for them to direct market using the internet.

[Ephraim]

There are some in Canada, but most transship and don't bother tanking the fish, that gets expensive.

[midgetwaiter]

isn't there also a step from the importer to the LFS as they're not necessarily the same?

Most of the stuff that comes into Vancouver and goes elsewhere is transshipped, the Van importer does the paperwork and pops them on the next flight to your LFS's city. They may rework the bags if they need to.

There are a handful of operations that tank fish and sell wholesale on the west coast but most of that action still happens in LA. You see more direct and transshipped stuff in Canada than in the US but I bet about 75% of the industry in North America moves through the larger LA importer / wholesalers. There is about 10 or so of them all on 104st right by LAX and they provide fish, corals and some dry goods.

There isn't clear evidence that the wholesale or direct / transshipped model results in better quality for the consumer. Flights can get bumped either way, one fish that doesn't appear sick can spread something to the whole shipment etc. When you're looking at a fish it's probably not a bad idea to ask where it came from but you should still handle them the same way. QT and evaluate, don't put new fish in a display.

I need to comment the idea of direct sales as well. As far as I know there aren't any large wholesalers that do direct sales. What is kind of a new thing though is that some of the internet based livestock stores actually don't have their own facilities but instead drop ship direct from the wholesaler. The seller is just a web site operation that lists whatever the wholesaler has in stock and sends orders over when they are received. The seller has never been within 200km of the livestock you are purchasing. I'm not aware of and Canadian outfits that do this.

IMO this drop ship thing is pretty ugly and I hope it never happens here. I'm not going to even pretend I'm not biased but the last 2 years have shown some problems with the business model. Quality Marine is one of the oldest and largest LA operations and they partnered up with Doctor Fosters and Smith to sell livestock in a drop ship scenario like this. QM has always been expensive but was generally worth it because the fish were excellent. Once they started doing the drop ship with DF&S the quality went down significantly, they weren't awful or anything but it would be fair to say mediocre at best. There were a lot of DF&S / Live Aquaria customers that were unsatisfied, there was talk of class actions and stuff on forums in the US.

[my2rotties]

Is there any links for pictures of collection sites or wholesalers by any chance? I am not looking for anything negative, I just am curious on how things work.