Propagation tanks

[Jack]

Anyone have one tied into thier system?

[kari]

Always wanted to setup a shallow plastic tub or two(can-tire white rubbermaid type) but I am already scared by my power bill.

[Canadian Man]

That's the plan. If I ever get my basement finished :rolleyes:

I have a cool 3 foot tank that's nice and wide and only 16" high!
Perfect prop tank.

[Jack]

I just bought Darrens 29 galllon in the buy/sell. I had been looking for a small tank that was drilled. I think I may attempt this in the near future... once my corals start getting larger.

I just have to do some research.

What would you guys go for lighting? 400w Iwasaki on this 29 gal? I figure 1-2" sandbed then an egg crate shelf a couple inches up.

[StirCrazy]

Jack, you could easaly use a 175 on a 29 gal. 400 iwasaki is way over kill for a shallow tank. I would use a 250 at the most.

Steve

[Jack]

Steve, since when is over kill bad in your books? :wink:

175w MH would be much better though with less power consumption.

[Canadian Man]

i was planning a 175w halide on my prop tank

[ABreefkpr]

I picked up a bank of tanks in a 2x4 stand from a guy that used to sell fish and corals from his basement. There are 6 tanks, (all drilled) sump, skimmer and little giant pump. I need to do some work on lighting and probably water flow but hope to use it as prop/grow out tank.

[zulu_principle]

From my experience, if you are doing sps with lots of color, you will eventually want to switch from 175 to 250.

No real incremental cost, but if you want to resell the market for 175 is thin.

JMHE


Wendell

[jgoldsney]

My new system is going to have a 40 gal prop tank.... the return from the main tank will run through it and I have set it up with a bunch of baffles in a zig zag pattern about 6" apart so that the water has to flow past every frag. This should allow me to have great water flow without the need for a bunch of pumps

My return pump is a mag 18 so there should be quite a bit of flow.....

I am building a new house with a large bonus room that will house my new tank set up (225gal) :biggrin: I will be building a tall cabinet right beside it to house the sump, the prop tank and my fuge. So everything will be self contained in one area. I will be running a 250W mh on the prop tank....


Joel

[Buccaneer]

I am building a new house with a large bonus room that will house my new tank set up (225gal) :biggrin:

Joel

I would get my builder to double check on what type of load the floor will take and if extra joists/beams will be required to support the weight ( engineer certificate is what I would be looking for ) ... approx 10LB/Gal is what you are looking at.

Cheers

[jgoldsney]

I am building a new house with a large bonus room that will house my new tank set up (225gal) :biggrin:

Joel

I would get my builder to double check on what type of load the floor will take and if extra joists/beams will be required to support the weight

Well I don't have an engineers certificate but where the load is resting is almost directly on a large beam which rests directly on top of a 2X6 load bearing wall. As well there were a few extra TGI floor joists so I had the framer throw them in so where my tank is sitting the joists are about 10" on center.

This should have no problem supporting the weight.

Joel

[Buccaneer]

Just making sure you have considered the weight of your tank ( 230G = approx 2300 LBS :eek: )

Cheers

[kari]

Joel

I find the wood-I's tend to have more deflection than the old style wood framing. Floors tend to sag a bit over time aswell. I'd wonder how level the tanks would sit once filled and a few months have gone bye. Is it too late to consider changing plans on tank location?
Also ambient temp is another consideration unless you have A/C or a chiller for the warmer weather. My tank is in my basement with a chiller.

You probably already considered all this but I just had to open my big mouth again. Good thinking by adding the extra joists.

Good luck with the new house :biggrin:

Kari

[StirCrazy]

I find the wood-I's tend to have more deflection than the old style wood framing.

Kari

If they do they were not used corectly.. the rigidity and load handling of these is more than a 2X10 and can maintain this over a longer span.

The problem is when they first were being used the builders tended to see how long of a span they could get away with.

Steve

[Canadian Man]

I find the wood-I's tend to have more deflection than the old style wood framing.

Kari

If they do they were not used corectly.. the rigidity and load handling of these is more than a 2X10 and can maintain this over a longer span.

The problem is when they first were being used the builders tended to see how long of a span they could get away with.

Steve

I agree with Kari. My new house floor is very flexy and this is not even at their max span length. when the dogs walk by you the floor flexes. This is probably the way it's supposed to be but they do definatley flex.

Just for kick's every new house I have been in latley I have checked this out and they all seem to be the same with regards to the amount of flexyness.

Babble, babble, babble......blah, blah, blah.
I'll shut up now.

cheers

[StirCrazy]

weird, I have noticed the oposite.. oh well

Steve

[Delphinus]

I don't think an I-beam has more "rigidity" per se than a equivalent sized rectangular solid beam.. My understanding (which is very limited) is that an I-beam has similar load capacities (depending on the direction of force, which is either vertical or lateral) than the equivalent solid shape, but requires far less material. I.e., it's a more efficient structure in terms of function per unit mass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's more rigid or has more load capacity overall. Plus, an I-beam is made out of "engineered lumber" whereas a 2x10 is just a piece of wood. You can make an I-beam based on byproducts of other products, but you need a tree for a 2x10, sort of thing.

(Maybe Carpentersreef, if he's out there, can elaborate.. Mitch??)

[Aquattro]

I found this.....

TGI joists are made with wood on the top and bottom but have a composite material between the wood that allows them to be manufactured perfectly straight. Their design prevents warping, providing a consistently flat surface to which sub-floors and finished flooring are attached. When the floor joists are perfectly flat, and there are no gaps between the joists and the sub-flooring, the finished floors are sturdy and have no creaks.

[kari]

I don't think an I-beam has more "rigidity" per se than a equivalent sized rectangular solid beam.. My understanding (which is very limited) is that an I-beam has similar load capacities (depending on the direction of force, which is either vertical or lateral) than the equivalent solid shape, but requires far less material. I.e., it's a more efficient structure in terms of function per unit mass, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's more rigid or has more load capacity overall. Plus, an I-beam is made out of "engineered lumber" whereas a 2x10 is just a piece of wood. You can make an I-beam based on byproducts of other products, but you need a tree for a 2x10, sort of thing.

(Maybe Carpentersreef, if he's out there, can elaborate.. Mitch??)

As far(or short) as I have learned, Tony you are pretty much right on the money. The load carrying capacity ( or ressistance to deflection) of the member has a lot to due with the cross sectional shape. The taller the shape is the more strength it has against this type of load in this manner. The reason it's shaped like it is, is like you said, to save material cost. The web part doesn't do much other than hold the top and bottom flange together. In this case the top flange is under compression and the bottom flange is under tension. And blah blah.

In short form;

-in the olden days we used say 2x8s. Since they are a tree, lets apply a factor of safety of 2.5 when designing.

-wood-I's are a little more predictable. Using typical living space loading values and predictability we can save some money and use a safety factor of say 1.5. Floor deflection doesn't mean structural failure but mearly a little discomfort to an allowable level.

I do though agree that when these wood-I's were interduced they were spanned way too long. Presently, like Jon stated, I can feel the beasts walking around in my house and the when the spin cycle starts I don't have to add coins to my vibro-sonic mattress. Saves $ and backache.

Kari

[StirCrazy]

the load is resting is almost directly on a large beam which rests directly on top of a 2X6 load bearing wall. As well there were a few extra TGI floor joists so I had the framer throw them in so where my tank is sitting the joists are about 10" on center.

Joel

I think everyone should read this again (I missed it as well) and get off the subject if "TGI" is a ridgid as traditional joists or not. his set up is a overkill of strenght and a perfect location for a tank.. there will be no bounce. it is resting directly on a enginered "BEEM" on the loadbearing wall. he had "EXTRA" TGI's throwen in.

Steve

[kari]

Steve

OK, I agree. Didn't mean to get smart assy, I put my tank were I wanted to and not where everybody else wanted it. I'm just WAY off topic.

[Delphinus]

I think everyone should read this again (I missed it as well) and get off the subject if "TGI" is a ridgid as traditional joists or not.

Steve, YOU set it up, I just responded to your comments and you shouldn't be surprised if you bring up a new topic if people want to respond to it. That's how interesting discussions play out. BTW, I just thought the I-beam question was an interesting side topic, I learnt something new from it, so if no-one else, I was appreciative that it came up in the first place. As far as placement of tank, I don't know anything about where he should place his tank, I assume he has done his homework and all will be well. Like Kari said, put the tank where you want it, and enjoy.

[Quinn]

I agree with Kari. My new house floor is very flexy...

...they all seem to be the same with regards to the amount of flexyness.



Jon, I think you've managed to invent a new word there. I have to say it sounds a lot more hip than "flexible" and "flexibility". :razz: :biggrin:

[Canadian Man]

I agree with Kari. My new house floor is very flexy...

...they all seem to be the same with regards to the amount of flexyness.



Jon, I think you've managed to invent a new word there. I have to say it sounds a lot more hip than "flexible" and "flexibility". :razz: :biggrin:

Thanks! I seem to be good at that. I thought I would be hearing from Bob for that one :lol:

[jgoldsney]

well my tank placement and house construction seem to have hijacked this thread.... lol

Just wondering if there is anyone else out there who plans to or has tied a prop tank in to their main system.

I originaly was going to try and maintain a seperate tank but I decided to tie it in so that I only have one system to maintain

Joel[/img]

[StirCrazy]

Steve, YOU set it up, I just responded to your comments and you shouldn't be surprised if you bring up a new topic if people want to respond to it.

I know, this one had just totaly lost sight of theoriginal topic and I don;t like to hijack threads like some people we know :mrgreen: so I thought it should end and get back on track.

By the way a properly sized silent floor truss is stronger and more ridgid than the beem it was intended to replace provided the proper cross bracing is also used (had to get that last one in :lol: )

Tony thats a rather short post for you.. not feeling good today? :biggrin:

Steve

[Aquattro]

I don;t like to hijack threads like some people we know

Steve

Steve, Tony seldom hijacks threads. So, about that J&L order, what did you want to get? I'll be ordering soon. Anyone else need anything?

[StirCrazy]

um I wasn't refering to Tony...

um probably nothing.. no moula right now.
i'll let you know later

Steve

[kari]

By the way a properly sized silent floor truss is stronger and more ridgid than the beem it was intended to replace provided the proper cross bracing is also used (had to get that last one in )

I'd also like to get the last one in but then I would need to draw moment diagrams and pull quotes out the wood design manual. That would require too much effort and I will now sit down.
It was fun though, thanks Steve.

Consider heat problems with tank on second floor. AHA