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fishoholic
04-20-2009, 08:56 PM
So it's been (as of July 1st 2009) 12 weeks since I first got velvet in my tank. The surviving fish are back in the displays (along with some new friends) and it's been 2 weeks (since the fish went back) so I thought I'd update this thread (the update will be at the end). This thread is primarily to share my experience in the hopes of saving others from having velvet in their tank.

Edit: list of loses as of 10:00am July 1/09: (26 Dead) (8 Alive)

Dead: achilles tang, orange shoulder tang, regal angel, one of my two cleaner wrasses, bi-colour blenny, queen angel, blueface angel, emperor angel, blue ring angel, valmingi tang, regal tang, yellow tang, naso tang, six line wrasse, green clown goby, falco hawkfish, spotted mandarin dragonett, male clownfish, one chromis, sailfin tang, female clownfish, clown tang, 2nd cleaner wrasse (committed suicide, went to sleep curled up inside of the heater cover), coral beauty (possibly from old age, 5yrs), and red corris wrasse (I think the lunare might of killed him), and the last one to not make it (survived the velvet but got to badly beat up in QT) is one chromis.

Still alive: Sohal tang (face is healed but bumpy and top lip is gone), king angel (my personal favorite, pic. is my avatar), 2 chromis, lunare wrasse, checkerborad wrasse, bursa trigger, CBB (copper band butterfly). All of these fish are finally back in the display tanks.

Below this line is my original post.
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Well as a few members already know I have been dealing the horror of my fish being infected with Marine Velvet. At least I'm fairly certain that is what it is. I thought I should start a thread about what's happening so everyone can learn from my mistakes, and so that all the people I have kept in touch with through pm's can all keep updated in one thread. Thanks again to all my canreef friends who have been helpful and supportive through this difficult time. *warning the link I'm adding (at the end) has some very graphic pictures and a video*

So I'll start at the beginning, about 3 weeks ago my boyfriend and I added some new fish to the system. I added an achilles tang and then he added an orange shoulder tang (fairly certain it was one of these tangs that brought the velvet into our system) then he added a regal angel and I added a king angel. The regal had been in QT at the lfs for awhile looked very healthy and was eating so I don't think it was him and the king angel came from a display tank were he had been in it for a year so I'm sure it wasn't him.

Anyway I thought I just had some fish with a bit of ich on them (the two new tangs) so I wasn't too concerned, I've had ich in my system before and my fish have seem to build up a natural immunity to it. Unfortunately I wasn't dealing with ich I was dealing with marine velvet which is much more deadly.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/index.php

This is the line that stands out for me and keeps me awake at night "Amyloodinium has shown a preference for first attacking the gill tissue of fish (Noga & Levy, 1995 and Stoskopf, 1993), so once it has spread to the body, I would consider the fish to be heavily infected and perhaps beyond hope of recovery." 90% of my fish that are left have it spread over their bodies :cry:

I will forever regret not QTing the two tangs first but now that it's after the fact all I can do is hope the others make it. I have what's left of my fish in a 110-120g (6 feet x 1 1/2 feet x 1 1/2 feet) QT tank and I am currently treating them with cupramine from seachem which is a copper treatment for the fish. I was reluctant to treat with copper considering how tricky it can be (not enough copper will do nothing to rid the fish of the disease and to much copper will kill the fish) be I've come to realize that the copper treatment is the best way to go to try to save who's left.

Losses to date: achilles tang, orange shoulder tang, regal angel, bi-colour blenny, queen angel, cleaner wrasse, blueface angel, and as of this morning my emperor angel :cry::cry::Cry:

Who's left: King angel, blue ring angel, sailfin tang, clown tang, sohal tang, valmingi tang, regal tang (looked really bad this morning), yellow tang, naso tang, cleaner wrasse, six line wrasse, checkerboard wrasse, lunare wrasse wrasse, red corris wrasse, CBB, 2 clownfish, green clown goby, falco hawfish, coral beauty, 4 chromis, bursa trigger and a spotted mandarin dragonett who is in his own 10g QT tank being treated with protomarin coral since copper is know to kill mandarins.

The pictures are to awful to post but if you want to see them here's a link

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/BRA/ (http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/BRA/DSC_1301.jpg)

Moral of the story: QT fish before adding to display.

my2rotties
04-20-2009, 09:01 PM
You know how sorry I am that this happened... good for you to have the balls to post about it. If you ever want to talk, you know my phone number...

Lets hope this is now over and the rest of the fish have a speedy recovery.

Delphinus
04-20-2009, 09:03 PM
Ouch. So sorry once again Laurie.

At least you were able to get them into a hospital tank. I think that's the best course of action forward at this point. I hope it works out. Best of luck with everything.

my2rotties
04-20-2009, 09:17 PM
Just a quick couple of questions...

How long do you need to treat the fish in QT for?

How long will have to keep the livestock out of the display tanks for?

TheRealBigAL
04-20-2009, 09:18 PM
Sorry to hear. :sad:

Chaloupa
04-20-2009, 09:34 PM
Marine Velvet is HORRIBLE...I am sooo sorry for your loss. I experienced it when I first started in the hobby...had an established little system...added a final fish and lost all of them..it was nasty. Good luck!

marie
04-20-2009, 09:36 PM
Oy, sorry the emperor didn't make it, my toes and fingers are still crossed for you.

Lance
04-20-2009, 09:44 PM
This really sucks! I know how much your fish mean to you. Cupramine is good stuff and hopefully does the trick. (fingers crossed)

fishoholic
04-20-2009, 11:49 PM
Thanks everyone, you have all been very kind to me during this stressful time. I just want everyone to know how much I appreciate it.

Diana to answer your questions I need to treat them with the copper med.'s for 2 weeks and I need to keep the tanks fish free for 6 weeks.

Marie I know you were almost scared to ask me how they were this morning, well I admit I was scared to check :sad: Now I'm hanging around at work because I'm afraid of what awaits me at home :sad:

However I will be heading home to face the music soon, and I will keep this thread updated frequently to let everyone know how it's going.

my2rotties
04-21-2009, 12:16 AM
So glad you could get them all out and treat them though. Keep your chin up, you will rebuild and continue. There will be a day that you look at your tanks again and be in awe. At least you have time to do some mods to make life easier.

Just go play killer zombie games with the man, and try to relax a little bit. You have done all that you could and now have to get through it. Thank goodness for some people on this forum that make life bearable and are very understanding. They know whom they are, these people ROCK!!!

I am hoping the fish that stuck it out this long will survive since they endured the worst and hung in there for you.

Good luck!:biggrin:


Thanks everyone, you have all been very kind to me during this stressful time. I just want everyone to know how much I apperciate it.

Diana to answer your questions I need to treat them with the copper med.'s for 2 weeks and I need to keep the tanks fish free for 6 weeks.

Marie I know you were almost scared to ask me how they were this morning, well I admit I was scared to check :sad: Now I'm hanging around at work because I'm afraid of what awaits me at home :sad:

However I will be heading home to face the music soon, and I will keep this thread updated frequently to let everyone know how it's going.

Myka
04-21-2009, 01:04 AM
Ouch!! That is really horrible. Sorry for the losses. :(

I don't run a QT for my smaller tanks because it's not feasible when there are only 3-4 fish, but when I set up my 90 I will be QTing all new fish.

Leah
04-21-2009, 01:34 AM
Heart breaking, thinking how you must be feeling. Hope things take a quick
turn around for you.:sad:

i have crabs
04-21-2009, 02:12 AM
im sorry too, its really crappy to have things go sour on you to the point of things not making it. ive never read that much about velvet but from what i do know ive always thought it was similar enough to ich that i dont need to be an expert. i think your doing the right thing by coppering the fish in a qt, the assumption that copper kills easily is something i dont pay much mind to since i also use the seachem stuff which is a non cleated copper and much less toxic, normally i do the recomended dose wait the 24 or 48hours they recomend on the bottle and dose it again, and if i think the fish look in bad shape after a day of that ill check amonia/nitrite/nitrate and if thier ok ill dose a 3rd time and leave it at that concentration, the first time i ever did this i used a copper test kit and tried to be safe and ive never bothered since,
about 4 years ago i lost a tank full of large fish to ich only 2 or 3 fish made it 1 died since then,now every fish i get dosent matter from where goes into a qt and is treated with at least 2 doses of copper for 1-2 weeks and ive never seen a spot of ich in any tank since,

again im sorry that you ended up having to lose fish also but please take away the habit of qt'ing every fish from now on.

fishoholic
04-21-2009, 03:39 AM
again im sorry that you ended up having to lose fish also but please take away the habit of qt'ing every fish from now on.

Yep lesson learned the hard way. For two years I haven't QT my fish and I started to think my tank was bullet proof and WHAM this happens. I figure it was best to post about it in order to perhaps save someone else the heartbreak that disease can cause from not QTing new fish.

So as of right now my blue ring angel, male clownfish, green clown goby are all dead. My regal tang and naso tang are almost dead, and my king angel is starting to look bad :cry:

One good thing is that when we moved all the rock out we caught 2 rock crabs that I didn't know we had. They now live in the sump. The other good news is that all 3 of my sexy shrimp and my peppermint shrimp (that I haven't seen in awhile) are all alive.

my2rotties
04-21-2009, 03:49 AM
OMG Laurie I don't even know what to say... there are no words that could possibly make you feel better right now...You know where I am if you need to talk.

Chaloupa
04-21-2009, 03:55 AM
OH NO...I was hoping your next post was going to say that things are the same with no losses...I am so sad for you. You lost some beautiful fish.:cry:

mark
04-21-2009, 04:20 AM
this is really sad to hear.

Lance
04-21-2009, 04:36 AM
"Damn" I was hoping you wouldn't lose anymore. :sad:

Canuckgod420
04-21-2009, 05:11 AM
One good thing is that when we moved all the rock out we caught 2 rock crabs that I didn't know we had. They now live in the sump. The other good news is that all 3 of my sexy shrimp and my peppermint shrimp (that I haven't seen in awhile) are all alive.[/QUOTE]

At least there is something positive out of this whole mess...sorry to hear of your losses.

fishoholic
04-21-2009, 12:35 PM
So as if it's not bad enough that I'm losing my fish "one by one" which makes me think of the new murder mystery series Happer's Island (good tv show) is were their catch line is that all the people will die "one by one" (which is said by this little girl in a creepy spooky voice) the worst thing I have ever witness happened last night that will forever haunt me and give me nightmares (as if this whole thing wasn't my worst nightmare already).

So my regal tang shortly before she died (I honestly think she was trying to commit suicide) she starts thrashing around in the tank literally ramming her head into the tank walls as hard as she can, smashing her head on top of the piece of ply-wood and egg create covering that we're using as a lid (to keep the wrasses in) over and over again for about 3 minutes (which felt like a lifetime) and she did this about 3 times before she sunk to the bottom and died. I couldn't believe what I was witnessing, it was very horrible to watch :cry::cry::cry: It was like she was trying to tell me to put her out of her misery but I just couldn't bring myself to do it, I feel so awful and anytime I think about it I start to cry :cry:

My naso tang and my yellow tang are dead. My sailfin doesn't look good and (the big piggy) wouldn't eat last night. My king angel ate but since I have lost all my other angels, I don't have a lot of hope for her right now.

Finally caught the 6 line wrasse out of the reef tank last night (got to be to late yesterday to do it, and we ended up taking out almost all to rock to be able to get him) it took about 2 hours to do catch him and 2 min.'s in the QT for him to die :cry:

Someone recommended a fresh water dip on the ones that look bad, it's supposed to get rid of the larvae or eggs in their gills which is cutting off their air supply and might give them a chance to survive. Seems worth trying, unfortunately it will have to wait until tonight as I need to get ready for work.

Powertec
04-21-2009, 12:47 PM
Oh Laurie i am soooo sorry:)

We had Vibrio in our tank a little over a year ago and unfortunetly i watched our fish do the same as yours. They died a painful death and by the time i figured out what was going on it was to late..It is funny how they do things when they are sick and dieing. All my anthias died together in the back corner all in a span of about 5mins. And my regal angel was the same as your 6line. Forever to dig her out of the rocks and about 5mins to die in quarintine.

If it is helpful at all that checkerboard made it through that Vibrio without a hickup...Hes a tough little bugger!

fishoholic
04-21-2009, 02:27 PM
Oh Laurie i am soooo sorry:)

We had Vibrio in our tank a little over a year ago and unfortunetly i watched our fish do the same as yours. They died a painful death and by the time i figured out what was going on it was to late..It is funny how they do things when they are sick and dieing. All my anthias died together in the back corner all in a span of about 5mins. And my regal angel was the same as your 6line. Forever to dig her out of the rocks and about 5mins to die in quarintine.

If it is helpful at all that checkerboard made it through that Vibrio without a hickup...Hes a tough little bugger!

I wonder if he built up an immunity or something, the checkerboard is the only one who is showing no signs of disease. Do you have and link to more info on Vibrio? I've never heard of it. From what I read about velvet it seems like that is what my fish have, but sometimes I wonder.

marie
04-21-2009, 02:32 PM
I wonder if he built up an immunity or something, the checkerboard is the only one who is showing no signs of disease. Do you have and link to more info on Vibrio? I've never heard of it. From what I read about velvet it seems like that is what my fish have, but sometimes I wonder.

Here you go, http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA036

Powertec
04-21-2009, 02:42 PM
Here are a couple links to info on it!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrio
http://www.reefs.org/library/aquarium_net/1197/1197_5.html

We couldn't figure out where it had come from but after talking to a few people from the U.S we linked it to the food as the tank conditions were pristine. It is basically a bacteria that in out case had been from a frozen pack of Brine shrimp that had probably been contaminated when it was packaged. So in our case when we moved them all to the hospital tank we kept feeding the food not knowing that,that was the problem and just kept introducing the bacteria to there systems which in the end killed them all.The bad thing about Vibrio is it can also make us sick...Which was great to hear after i had my hands in the tank trying to catch 10 fish!! They can get lesions on them..But we noticed nothing unusual with the outside of them just at the end you could see that they had almost ruptured inside as when we pulled them out you could see the red under there skin.
Reminded me of Ebola in fish:(

He very we'll could be immune to whatever is going on..
Is there slime coat sluffing off?
With the vibrio they all seemed fine and then within about a 12 hour period i lost all of them but the checkerboard and one of my angels and neither one of them were sick at any time.

my2rotties
04-21-2009, 05:41 PM
This whole entire horrifying ordeal sound eerily similar to how my large angels died. I had my emp and majestic angels for over two months and the majestic came down with these symptoms and died. One week later my emp had these symptoms and died. I suspected cyanide poisoning since the fish were bought at the same time and were from the same store. Sadly i had added a queen angel to the sytem three days before the emp got sick and died. I had the queen for seven days and it got sick and died three days later. Luckily none of my other fish fell ill and are healthy to this day.

When I brought the bodies to a couple of stores I was told it was a species specific bacteria and I would not lose anymore fish unless they were angels. One store told me to not add any angels for a few weeks and the bacteria would die off on its own without angels as hosts. I do not know what bacteria it would have been as I was not told details.

I had my regal angel on hold at the LFS for three months and set up a 90g QT tank plumbed into my system. If I have a sick fish I can turn a couple of ball valves and cut it off from the water column. I then picked up the regal and put him into the QT tank with the system water and watched and waited. I was given a bright yellow powder in baggies to treat the water on the QT if the regal fell ill. He never did and is in my display healthy and happy.

I do not know what the medication is, but am glad to have just in case. The thing with this type of disease is that it shares symptoms of many other diseases and you do not know the course of treatment to go with. The fish that did get sick and died ended up with ich before displaying the other symptoms. Nobody else had it so I fed medicated food with garlic and thought I could let them fight it off.

I really thought this was happening with Laurie's fish and thought she may lose all the angels at worst. I had no idea she would have such a heartbreaking disaster. I was sick and broken hearted watching three of my beautiful angels die in a week. I cannot begin to imagine losing the amount of fish she has lost in such a short time span.

Now when I add fish I put prazipro and cupamine into the bag the fish came form for over an hour... now I don't know if that will help if a fish is infected with this type of bacteria. Qting a fish of course helps to not spread the disease but if we don't know what we are dealing with, how do we even begin to treat a sick fish.

I am so very sorry for your losses Laurie.:cry::cry::cry::cry:

Atomikk
04-21-2009, 08:00 PM
Sorry to hear this. Copper would have been the best method of killing Marine Velvet. Always keep a hospital tank nearby for cases like this. You could have taken all the infect fish out and medicated them. Copper is the only way to eradicate velvet.

I know personally how it is to lose most of your fish to velvet. And know personally how to eliminate it from a fish. QT/HT and Copper are you last line of defense against ailments such as this.

Take a deep berath. Its ok. If need to cry, do so. It is really really tough!

fishoholic
04-22-2009, 12:36 AM
"Velvet Disease (Oodinium)

Is similar to ich however these organisms are smaller, like gold-coloured dust, while ich is white, larger and more rounded. Velvet disease ("rust disease") is highly contagious, however it is a curious dinoflagellate that contains chlorophyll-like plants, including algae. It may be difficult to see until a heavy infestation develops. Bleeding can eventually occur, with the skin peeling off. When the gills are affected the fish will have difficulty breathing and may die from asphyxiation. Velvet is a rather uncommon disease. The remedy often used for velvet is copper (try Aquarisol by Aquarium Products). The fish affected should be quarantined and the tank darkened for best results."

The above quote is exactly what is happening to my fish. My valmingi is dead my sailfin is almost dead my king doesn't look good. The bleeding is occurring and the skin is peeling off of my female clownfish and Sohal tang faces :cry:

Going to try Fresh water dips now, I figure they're pretty much dead anyway maybe the FW dip will help.

my2rotties
04-22-2009, 12:40 AM
OMG!!! Why can't this just be over for you. I can't imagine what it is like to dread waking up in the morning and then coming home for work...

I wish I could help in some way.

fishoholic
04-22-2009, 02:42 PM
OMG!!! Why can't this just be over for you. I can't imagine what it is like to dread waking up in the morning and then coming home for work...

I wish I could help in some way.

Yep, that's what it's been like since last Thurs. BTW your support and friendship have been very helpful.

I lost my falco hawkfisk and 1 chromis last night. Did FW dips on most of the remaining fish (to scared to do one on my CBB and cleaner wrasse, who both somehow seem ok still) and it seems to have helped, no one was dead this morning. The sailfin is still on his side or upside down for the most part so I'm thinking he wont make it and my clownfish and sohal are swimming around still, but the skin on their faces is mostly gone, really horrific looking :sad:

Leah
04-22-2009, 03:24 PM
I was scared to ask yesterday but did it effect both tanks?
Again sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry for you!

fishoholic
04-22-2009, 06:34 PM
I was scared to ask yesterday but did it effect both tanks?
Again sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry for you!

Yes both tanks are all plumbed together through a 90g sump. Had to pull out all the fish from both displays and QT'd them all. That's why there is so many dead, it effected everyone :cry: Still have to catch the red corris wrasse from the fowlr display, I can't believe how good he is at hidding. Was just thinking about it and since this past thrusday (april 16) I have lost 16 fish, how ironic :cry:

Edit: some people are wondering who's left etc. so I will edit my original post and add 2 lists of who's made it and who hasn't

Atomikk
04-22-2009, 10:12 PM
Do you have any chance to copper treat your fish in a QT? If so, I think you should. FW dips will not work. Trust me on this. You will only stress the fish out even more.

my2rotties
04-22-2009, 10:22 PM
Hey Laurie I am hoping the last of them pull through since they endured the very worst. I wonder if you should put anti biotics in the water at some point to help the healing fish not get infections. I would perhaps look into that since they survived this long and you probably don't want an infection to set in in their weakened state. I have no idea if this would be an issue but I am just trying to think ahead of "Murphy's law". I almost have a feeling that you might have to, but really don't know for sure.

Anyone else have any advise on this?

marie
04-22-2009, 11:22 PM
Do you have any chance to copper treat your fish in a QT? If so, I think you should. FW dips will not work. Trust me on this. You will only stress the fish out even more.

She is treating them with copper, the fresh water dips is an attempt to give the fish a bit of relief

Hey Laurie I am hoping the last of them pull through since they endured the very worst. I wonder if you should put anti biotics in the water at some point to help the healing fish not get infections. I would perhaps look into that since they survived this long and you probably don't want an infection to set in in their weakened state. I have no idea if this would be an issue but I am just trying to think ahead of "Murphy's law". I almost have a feeling that you might have to, but really don't know for sure.

Anyone else have any advise on this?

Probably not a good idea while the fish are still undergoing copper treatment. Adding too many things to the water could make the water quality go south.

Lance
04-22-2009, 11:32 PM
She is treating them with copper, the fresh water dips is an attempt to give the fish a bit of relief



Probably not a good idea while the fish are still undergoing copper treatment. Adding too many things to the water could make the water quality go south.



I agree. One treatment at a time IMO. Copper will work if dosed properly.

my2rotties
04-22-2009, 11:38 PM
Very good point indeed. Would the copper keep any bacteria at bay during treatment? After they are done treatment should they be put on anti biotics just in case? I just wonder what the typical protocol is for people that have a serious disease to deal with, since it seems so many :neutral:things could go wrong. Now I wonder if I should treat any new fish with an anti biotic soak prior to going into the system.

Probably not a good idea while the fish are still undergoing copper treatment. Adding too many things to the water could make the water quality go south.

marie
04-22-2009, 11:51 PM
Very good point indeed. Would the copper keep any bacteria at bay during treatment? After they are done treatment should they be put on anti biotics just in case? I just wonder what the typical protocol is for people that have a serious disease to deal with, since it seems so many :neutral:things could go wrong. Now I wonder if I should treat any new fish with an anti biotic soak prior to going into the system.

No please don't, using antibiotics as a prophylactic is a bad idea. There are enough problems with bacteria building immunity to available antibiotics.
Quarantining new fish for a full 8 weeks should give enough time for any problems to make themselves known. Once problems are known then they can be treated appropriately

fishoholic
04-22-2009, 11:59 PM
Thanks Marie for answering Atomikk question for me, it's exactly what I would of said.

I will be doing only one treatment at a time. However I was wondering how to help the sohal heal his open wounds, if he makes it through the copper treatment.

Just called home (haven't left work yet) and my sailfin tang and my female clownfish are dead. I have to say this really sucks! Everyday for the past week it's like "who's turn it is to die today" I will be glad when this whole ordeal is over and I pray :pray2: that some of them survive it.

my2rotties
04-23-2009, 12:03 AM
Please don't think I am suggesting anything to Laurie... I just see fish at the LFS being treated with antibiotics, or other things in separate tanks quite often. This is why I made mention of it... I do often wonder what the immune systems will be like on my fish when they come home.

No please don't, using antibiotics as a prophylactic is a bad idea. There are enough problems with bacteria building immunity to available antibiotics.
Quarantining new fish for a full 8 weeks should give enough time for any problems to make themselves known. Once problems are known then they can be treated appropriately

my2rotties
04-23-2009, 12:14 AM
This is why I mentioned antibiotics... I just didn't know what you do for that.



I will be doing only one treatment at a time. However I was wondering how to help the sohal heal his open wounds, if he makes it through the copper treatment.

fishoholic
04-23-2009, 03:50 AM
This is why I mentioned antibiotics... I just didn't know what you do for that.

Ya that's why I figured you said that.

After the copper treatment is done does anyone know what heals open wounds? I know melafix works for wounds on FW fish just can't remember if it works for SW or not.

Sohal looks awful however he is eating and swimming around lots. King is slowing down, not quite on his side but almost and she hasn't eaten anything yesterday or today :sad:

It's also been a big PITA trying to keep ammonia in check, we're doing 25% to 50% W/C's everyday.

marie
04-23-2009, 03:54 AM
Ya that's why I figured you said that.

After the copper treatment is done does anyone know what heals open wounds? I know melafix works for wounds on FW fish just can't remember if it works for SW or not.

Sohal looks awful however he is eating and swimming around lots. King is slowing down, not quite on his side but almost and she hasn't eaten anything yesterday or today :sad:

It's also been a big PITA trying to keep ammonia in check, we're doing 25% to 50% W/C's everyday.

One of the side affects of copper is depressed appetite, I would feed sparingly until copper treatment is over...it will help with the ammonia levels as well

*edit* A well fed fish should last 10 days without eating with no problems but I would feed a good quality flake food (flakes soak up things up better and faster)that has been soaked in garlic juice and vitamins for the fish who are still eating

GreenSpottedPuffer
04-23-2009, 04:05 AM
I know I said it a bunch of times already last week in the PM's but again, I am so sorry about your losses :sad:

Velvet has to be caught so fast and so often it's too late by the time you figure it out.

fishoholic
04-23-2009, 05:10 AM
One of the side affects of copper is depressed appetite, I would feed sparingly until copper treatment is over...it will help with the ammonia levels as well

*edit* A well fed fish should last 10 days without eating with no problems but I would feed a good quality flake food (flakes soak up things up better and faster)that has been soaked in garlic juice and vitamins for the fish who are still eating

None of my fish have ever been offered flake not sure if they would eat it or not. We've been feeding pellets and mysis very sparingly (mysis soaked in garlic & selcon) and we try to scoop up any uneaten food 10-15 minutes after feeding. I was paranoid that if they stopped eating it was a signal that they were getting weaker and that the end was near. Good to know how long they can live for without eating. I'd say my king was well fed, I'd bet she's fatter then Doofus :wink:

I know I said it a bunch of times already last week in the PM's but again, I am so sorry about your losses :sad:

Velvet has to be caught so fast and so often it's too late by the time you figure it out.

Thank-you again GSP for the pm's and kind words.

Unfortunately I do think you are right. I really believe that by the time we figured out what was really wrong with our fish, it was to late to save most of them.

Atomikk
04-23-2009, 11:46 AM
So all of your fish are quarantined and treated with copper at this point? Or only some?

my2rotties
04-23-2009, 02:43 PM
ALL of her fish are in the QT tank being treated.

So all of your fish are quarantined and treated with copper at this point? Or only some?

fishoholic
04-23-2009, 04:47 PM
So all of your fish are quarantined and treated with copper at this point? Or only some?

Yes all of my fish are in QT being treated with copper save for one sneaky red corris wrasse who is being a PITA to catch from the FOWLR display tank. Almost caught him last night but he wiggled his way out of the net. The problem is he dives deep into the sand and it's very hard to find him once he's out of sight, we have stirred up the whole sand bed in our efforts to catch him but after awhile it gets to cloudly to see anything and we have to stop. Pretty much all the live rock has been taken out this tank and we're hopeful that tonight when he's out and about we should be able to get him.

As soon as we catch him he will be going into the QT tank, and we will be leaving the display tanks fish free for at least 6 weeks in order to kill off the disease in the tanks.

my2rotties
04-23-2009, 04:50 PM
What would a person do to a new fish prior to putting them into a QT tank to perhaps take preventative measures on a fish that might be incubating this disease? Does a person put some copper in the fish bag the fish came home in for a certain amount of time to kill off any disease?

Any new fish I have brought home get prazipro and cupamine put into the fish bag and they are left in it for an hour. I do pour the fish and contents of the bag into a pail and cover it with a towel while I do this as well. Then I add and subtract my tank water by replacing one cup of bag water with tank water (bag water goes down the sink), and I keep doing this for about 40 minutes. I then net the fish and put it into my holding tank. I know one LFS that does a fresh water dip on all new fihs to kill everything but it freaks me out to do this. So far, since I have taken the measures I have done, I have not had a single problem with any disease of any kind. However, perhaps this has just been good luck, so any insight on how else people do things would be appreciated.

my2rotties
04-23-2009, 04:51 PM
From your post I feel that everyone else is still alive so far? I am sure hoping so!!! It seems promising.

Yes all of my fish are in QT being treated with copper save for one sneaky red corris wrasse who is being a PITA to catch from the FOWLR display tank. Almost caught him last night but he wiggled his way out of the net. The problem is he dives deep into the sand and it's very hard to find him once he's out of sight, we have stirred up the whole sand bed in our efforts to catch him but after awhile it gets to cloudly to see anything and we have to stop. Pretty much all the live rock has been taken out this tank and we're hopeful that tonight when he's out and about we should be able to get him.

As soon as we catch him he will be going into the QT tank, and we will be leaving the display tanks fish free for at least 6 weeks in order to kill off the disease in the tanks.

fishoholic
04-24-2009, 04:12 AM
WOOOOHOOO (all and all considering) today is the first day in a week that I didn't wake up to dead fish and I didn't come home to dead fish :mrgreen: My king was lethargic and not really moving around or eating the past 2 days and today she is swimming around a bit and she ate a bit too. The rest of the fish seem to be ok too. Other then the Sohal tang. The Sohal is swimming around eating lots and acting semi normal but his face is awful, literally half of the skin on his face has fallen off :sad: Doesn't seem to be slowing him down, but it looks just awful.

Also we finally caught the red corris wrasse today and she is now in QT with everyone else, seems to be doing fine in there.

Lance
04-24-2009, 04:16 AM
Yessss! :whoo ::pray2:

my2rotties
04-24-2009, 04:20 AM
I have been waiting the whole entire night wondering what the news would be.

Thank goodness this might finally be starting to settle down and die. I think about how tings are going for you an awful lot.

Thanks goodness for good news for a change. You really are a trooper. I have panic attacks just thinking of what you must be going through.

QUOTE=fishoholic;414112]WOOOOHOOO (all and all considering) today is the first day in a week that I didn't wake up to dead fish and I didn't come home to dead fish :mrgreen: My king was lethargic and not really moving around or eating the past 2 days and today she is swimming around a bit and she ate a bit too. The rest of the fish seem to be ok too. Other then the Sohal tang. The Sohal is swimming around eating lots and acting semi normal but his face is awful, literally half of the skin on his face has fallen off :sad: Doesn't seem to be slowing him down, but it looks just awful.

Also we finally caught the red corris wrasse today and she is now in QT with everyone else, seems to be doing fine in there.[/QUOTE]

Atomikk
04-24-2009, 04:20 AM
Awesome to hear! Any good sign at point is GREAT. That means that copper is killing off the dinos off of the fish.

fishoholic
04-24-2009, 04:27 AM
Yessss! :whoo ::pray2:

I agree, thanks Lance :biggrin:

Also (my boyfriend) Steve's brother and sister in law just stopped by and gave us a sympathy card and a $50 Big Als gift card :bounce: I have to say it was extremely nice and thoughtful of them to do so.

marie
04-24-2009, 04:32 AM
I agree, thanks Lance :biggrin:

Also (my boyfriend) Steve's brother and sister in law just stopped by and gave us a sympathy card and a $50 Big Als gift card :bounce: I have to say it was extremely nice and thoughtful of them to do so.

That was very thoughtful of them. It's good to hear that things appear to have turned the corner. Hopefully all uphill from here, keep the water quality up and the sohals face may just clear up on its own

i have crabs
04-24-2009, 04:32 AM
bout time thier was some good news, so you have all the fish in the qt now?,

my2rotties-
never heard of people treating with copper while acclimating new fish, i have no idea how long it takes to have any benefit, i dont think it would do much in that ammount of time plus your exchanging water which would dilute the mix almost to nothing,
if your puting the fish into a qt just treat them in there, im not one of those people who have seperate qt and hospital tanks seems a bit stupid to me to put a fish in a tank you dont want to medicate.
the way i do things is the fish gets added to the qt, usually 1/2hour or so, streching out the process risks oxygen levels dropping and i think thats what kills alot of new fish, once the fish is in the tank ill give them a couple days to adjust and get eating if all looks well or ill start the culpramine right away if they look sick at all,
i used to do fresh water dips also but i cant handle the stress and never seen any benefit to doing it, maybe if the fish wasnt going into a qt for some reason i would do a fw dip.

fishoholic
04-24-2009, 04:33 AM
I have been waiting the whole entire night wondering what the news would be.

Thank goodness this might finally be starting to settle down and die. I think about how tings are going for you an awful lot.

Thanks goodness for good news for a change. You really are a trooper. I have panic attacks just thinking of what you must be going through.



Ya, it's been a pretty crazy horrible week. I :pray2: that the worst of it over and that the rest will make it.

Pazil
04-24-2009, 04:35 AM
What a tragedy.... I hope things start to look up for you.

Cheers
Lawrence

fishoholic
04-24-2009, 04:40 AM
That was very thoughtful of them. It's good to hear that things appear to have turned the corner. Hopefully all uphill from here, keep the water quality up and the sohals face may just clear up on its own

We're trying to keep the water quality up and good to know about the Sohal, hopefully he will heal up and make it.

bout time their was some good news, so you have all the fish in the qt now?,



Yes, the remaining fish are all in QT now.

fishoholic
04-25-2009, 05:40 AM
:bad-word::bad-word::bad-word::evil: Evil disease claimed another fish :frusty::mad::mad2: :censored::hurt:

Just when I thought things might be looking up, my clown tang dies :cry:

We made it all day yesterday, this morning and when we first got home from work without a single death. I was hoping and :pray: that no more would die. We went out for a bowling event with Steve's work and when we got home (around 11pm) we found our clown tang dead :cry:

I guess I wont know for sure who will make it until the QT is done.

Atomikk
04-25-2009, 05:44 AM
Stay strong. Check water quality in the QT frequently. Get one of those SeaChem ammonia detectors. They are great for giving you a heads up on the ammonia levels in the QT.

JOEL
04-25-2009, 12:48 PM
That is really horrible. Sorry for the losses Laurie.

Skimmerking
04-25-2009, 01:43 PM
hey there Laurie, WOW talk about bad luck. I was skimming through the thread . get it SKIMMING :lol::lol::lol: i little joke to perk you up./. any ways i saw that you were asking about melifix i have used it when my fish were sick ,you just can't use the skimmer for a about 48 hours... but it does work thou..

Hey hows the skimmer holding up. did your friend get the beckett for ya to use... I hope today was a good day.

Piscez
04-25-2009, 03:08 PM
First sincere condolences I've lost 11 fish recently and I know how horrible and quilty I felt, but it pales in comparison your your loses, talk about stress! I know how you feel checking each morning with a pit in your stomach. You must be devastated.... again I'm truely sorry for you, you certainly had some magnificent fish. :Cry:

I'd also like to thank you for being so brave and honest to post this info, I'm sure we can all learn and take lessons from this. IMO that is what these forums are all about. Without the people on this forum I would have never been able to keep my dream of owning a SW tank.

I was wondering if you could tell us what you plan is to do with your infected tanks now? Do you completely change ALL the water, some rock? all rock?? or do you leave it fallow or ????? and for how long etc???................


Still hoping theres more to learn from all this :cry:

sincere regards

fishoholic
04-25-2009, 03:10 PM
Thanks guys.

I am testing the ammonia daily and doing large water changes and using Amquel to help keep the ammonia levels down.

No deaths so far this morning, really hoping it stays that way.

After the copper treatment is done I plan on setting up a 90g for the remaining fish (with established live rock that we're either going to buy from a tank shut down or borrow from a friend) with the hopes of giving the remaining fish a better chance of survival for the 4-6 weeks we will be leaving them out of the display for.

Just wondering do wrasse's have some sort of odd immune system that keeps them disease free? All of my large wrasse's and my cleaner wrasse have not shown any signs or symptoms of velvet. My CBB seems unaffected as well (hoping & praying they all stay that way) it just seems really weird.

Piscez
04-25-2009, 03:15 PM
Thanks guys.



Just wondering do wrasse's have some sort of odd immune system that keeps them disease free? All of my large wrasse's and my cleaner wrasse have not shown any signs or symptoms of velvet. My CBB seems unaffected as well (hoping & praying they all stay that way) it just seems really weird.


My Solar & six line survived my mystery illness too along with my foxface, but I lost 4 clowns, 3 gobies, 1 flame angel, 1 hippo tank, 1 Royal gramma, and 1 firefish.

fishoholic
04-25-2009, 03:59 PM
First sincere condolences I've lost 7 fish recently and I know how horrible and guilty I felt, but it pales in comparison your your loses, talk about stress! I know how you feel checking each morning with a pit in your stomach. You must be devastated.... again I'm truly sorry for you, you certainly had some magnificent fish. :Cry:

I'd also like to thank you for being so brave and honest to post this info, I'm sure we can all learn and take lessons from this. IMO that is what these forums are all about. Without the people on this forum I would have never been able to keep my dream of owning a SW tank.

I was wondering if you could tell us what you plan is to do with your infected tanks now? Do you completely change ALL the water, some rock? all rock?? or do you leave it fallow or ????? and for how long etc???................


Still hoping theres more to learn from all this :cry:

sincere regards

Thanks, this is why I posted everything that's happening. Well that and to keep my wonderful canreef friends up to date as to what's happening.

Anyway I figured if at least one other person could learn from my mistakes, it might save them from having to go through what I've been going through and then at least something good could come from this whole mess.

Basically the display tanks have to sit fish free for at least 6 weeks. By doing this the disease will die off due to not having a fish for it to host on. We will probably go 8 weeks just to be on the safe side. We plan on doing a 30% water change on the display tanks today (which for a 500g system is 150g, which is a lot of water to mix and change out) after that we will do regular water changes as needed.

For future preventative measures we will be QT'ing all new fish before adding them to the display.

To be honest why we didn't QT fish before, is that it is a PITA to set up a QT tank and then you have to go through the worries of ammonia spiking etc. etc. However it is much easier to deal with the death of a new QT fish then the death of pretty much all your fish.

My plan (to make QT more reasonable and more likely to happen) is to (in about 10 weeks from now) plumb in a 90g to our existing system set it up with established LR (leave it bare bottom/no sand) and have it connected through a float switch valve. This way whenever we buy a new fish we will have a fully established tank for it to go into that we can disconnect (by turning the float switch off) from the display in order to keep the display disease free.

After a few weeks in QT if the fish is healthy then we turn the float valve switch back on and we can add the new fish. If the fish isn't healthy we can remove to fish from the 90g QT put it in a smaller QT tank and do what ever treatment necessary to try to save it. We would then keep the 90g disconnected from the displays for 8 weeks allowing time for what ever disease is in there to dissipate before reconnecting the 90g back up to the display tanks.

Thus giving new healthy fish a safe place to live in before being added to the display tanks, and thus keeping the displays disease free.

fishoholic
04-25-2009, 04:06 PM
My Solar & six line survived my mystery illness too along with my foxface, but I lost 4 clowns, 3 gobies, 1 flame angel, 1 hippo tank, 1 Royal gramma, and 1 firefish.

Sorry to hear that it really sucks loosing fish. Funny though how wrasse's seem to pull through.

fishoholic
04-25-2009, 05:33 PM
hey there Laurie, WOW talk about bad luck. I was skimming through the thread . get it SKIMMING :lol::lol::lol: i little joke to perk you up./. any ways i saw that you were asking about melifix i have used it when my fish were sick ,you just can't use the skimmer for a about 48 hours... but it does work thou..

Hey hows the skimmer holding up. did your friend get the beckett for ya to use... I hope today was a good day.

So melifix works for SW fish too and is safe to use with LR in the tank? Right? If the sohal survives the copper treatment he will go to the 90g holding tank which will be set up with LR (established live rock but not LR from my tanks) and that is when I was thinking of treating him with melifix.

Skimmer is working good still and since I have much less of a bio-load now I'm guessing I wont have to worry about high nitrates. At least not anytime soon anyways.

naesco
04-25-2009, 05:41 PM
It is good to see that you have decided to set up a QT and are recommending it to others.
I have a few other recommendations.
In the ensuing weeks, plan your tank. The regular visit you and your hubby make to the LFS returning with several fish should be a thing of the past.

Avoid difficult to keep species like Achilles tangs. There is a reason that fish like the achilles have been flagged red by most authors and experienced reefers. Sure, a few of them survive but most perish for no apparent reason and take their tank mates with them.

If your are going to start adding fish to your main tank in a couple of months choose a couple of hardy fish and observe them for several weeks. Only than start slowly adding some of the species your are more fond of to ensure that the disease cased by the stress in your previous tank does not resurface.

Best Wishes. I know what you have gone through.

fishoholic
04-25-2009, 09:23 PM
It is good to see that you have decided to set up a QT and are recommending it to others.
I have a few other recommendations.
In the ensuing weeks, plan your tank. The regular visit you and your hubby make to the LFS returning with several fish should be a thing of the past.

Avoid difficult to keep species like Achilles tangs. There is a reason that fish like the achilles have been flagged red by most authors and experienced reefers. Sure, a few of them survive but most perish for no apparent reason and take their tank mates with them.

If your are going to start adding fish to your main tank in a couple of months choose a couple of hardy fish and observe them for several weeks. Only than start slowly adding some of the species your are more fond of to ensure that the disease cased by the stress in your previous tank does not resurface.

Best Wishes. I know what you have gone through.

I have bought a lot of fish over the past few years but never before has it been 4 all in one week.

The achilles (bought on March 29) was a special order my friend got in for me for $150 he ordered in 4 of them (I just couldn't pass it up) mine is the only one not alive. The other 3 he ordered in are all alive and doing great. Not sure it was the achilles's who had the disease as my friend had him in his tank for a few days before we bought it and his tank is fine.

The orange shoulder my boyfriend bought on March 31, he didn't tell me about it, I got home and I found the fish in my tank. The orange shoulder was eating in the store, a store we don't normally buy fish from, and he looked kinda skinny.

The regal angel my boyfriend bought (April 2) from a different LFS. The regal had been in QT at this store for a week, he looked very healthy and was eating. Again I got home and surprise there's a regal angel in my tank. He got it for $80 it was to good of a deal to pass up. Honestly if it had of been me I would of bought him.

The king angel (bought on May 4, who is still alive) my friend picked up for me from a fish store in Calgary, I told him 6-8 months ago if he ever saw a king angel for around $200 not to hesitate buying it for me and that I would pay him back. The king was $220 and he came from a display tank that was set up in the fish store and the owner had her in that tank for a year.

So my guess is that the disease came from either of the tangs or possibly the regal angel. Had I QT those fish before adding them to the display I would not be going through all of this right now :cry:

I'd love to go back in time and change the outcome of things but since I can't, I will share my story (as awful as it is) and pray that others will see this and not make the same mistakes.

At this point we just are hoping the ones we have left survive. After 8 weeks of an empty tank the disease should be gone from the displays, and it should be safe to put whoever's left back in. Not sure if we will be adding more fish. My favorite (king angel, who is very bossy so tank mates might be tricky to add anyways) and Steve's favorite (sohal, who has always been peaceful but has always had a large sailfin to keep him inline) are still alive at this point and those two are the two main fish we have always wanted. As long as they and the others we have left survive I will be happy with what I've got for awhile.

If we do buy anymore fish they will be well thought out ones and they will be QT before being added to the display.

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 03:09 AM
Thought I'd share a link to pictures of the Sohal. I'm using a link because I think these pictures might be to graphic to post directly. He doesn't seem to be in pain but he must be, as he looks like something from a horror movie.

http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/sohal/?albumview=slideshow

The Sohal is still alive, swims around lots, and is eating well.

my2rotties
04-26-2009, 03:12 AM
OMG!!! He looks like he should be in the Movie Resident Evil... the aquarium version. It looks like it hurts so bad... I hope he heals up soon. What a tough fish.

Thought I'd share a link to pictures of the Sohal. I'm using a link because I think these pictures might be to graphic to post directly. He doesn't seem to be in pain but he must be, as he looks like something from a horror movie.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/sohal/DSC_1308.jpg

The Sohal is still alive, swims around lots, and is eating well.

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 03:19 AM
OMG!!! He looks like he should be in the Movie Resident Evil... the aquarium version. It looks like it hurts so bad... I hope he heals up soon. What a tough fish.

Wow that was fast, you posted before I could even edit to get the link to work properly. There is more then one pic. the pic.'s aren't the best as the QT tank is a bit cloudy and the glass is dirty, but obviously you get the idea, since I agree he does look like something from Resident Evil.

He is a very tough fish and we really hope he makes it.

subman
04-26-2009, 03:28 AM
Wow what a brutal experience I am sorry that you had to go through this! Thanks for sharing it with us though I for one am clearing a spot for a qt asap.

marie
04-26-2009, 03:35 AM
:eek: You're going to have to change his name to scarface

my2rotties
04-26-2009, 03:48 AM
I have nothing better to do on a Saturday night... plus the Flames got their butts handed to them.:wink:

Wow that was fast, you posted before I could even edit to get the link to work properly. There is more then one pic. the pic.'s aren't the best as the QT tank is a bit cloudy and the glass is dirty, but obviously you get the idea, since I agree he does look like something from Resident Evil.

He is a very tough fish and we really hope he makes it.

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 01:47 PM
Wow what a brutal experience I am sorry that you had to go through this! Thanks for sharing it with us though I for one am clearing a spot for a qt asap.

It has been brutal, I'm glad to hear you're going to set up a QT, maybe if I had of read something like this I would of set one up and not be going through what I am now. On the plus side everyone is still alive this morning.

:eek: You're going to have to change his name to scarface

You know what, I think I will. I actually never did think of a name for him so somehow Scarface seems appropriate given the circumstances.

christyf5
04-26-2009, 02:18 PM
Good grief, I've been reading this thread every day and well, there are just no words.

Its amazing what fish can survive, and what they don't survive. I hope this is the end of the horror for you.

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 03:28 PM
Good grief, I've been reading this thread every day and well, there are just no words.

Its amazing what fish can survive, and what they don't survive. I hope this is the end of the horror for you.

Me too! Two whole days without death here's hoping. I do believe with some melifix after the copper treatment is over the Sohal will heal.

Leah
04-26-2009, 03:43 PM
Wow Laurie it has been really rough for you, if nothing else it has made me reconsider
having a q.t. tank. I agree with you on the pita thinking as I to have lost many fish in
q.t. that may have made it otherwise. I for one am glad you posted and am pleased
that you did not get the flack some have on here....it is been an eyeopener for a few
people I am sure. And you probably saved a lot of people this horrible experience.
Thank you for sharing with us and we can all learn to do better. Hoping everyone left
recouvers quickly. I know when I lost a bunch of fish once, I felt like throwing in the
towel I was so upset. It will just take time.....thinking of you!!! It will get better!
Leah

christyf5
04-26-2009, 03:53 PM
Me too! Two whole days without death here's hoping. I do believe with some melifix after the copper treatment is over the Sohal will heal.


I totally agree, as long as you can keep him eating and he's fairly active, he will heal up just fine :biggrin:

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 05:04 PM
Wow Laurie it has been really rough for you, if nothing else it has made me reconsider
having a q.t. tank. I agree with you on the pita thinking as I to have lost many fish in
q.t. that may have made it otherwise. I for one am glad you posted and am pleased
that you did not get the flack some have on here....it is been an eyeopener for a few
people I am sure. And you probably saved a lot of people this horrible experience.
Thank you for sharing with us and we can all learn to do better. Hoping everyone left
recovers quickly. I know when I lost a bunch of fish once, I felt like throwing in the
towel I was so upset. It will just take time.....thinking of you!!! It will get better!
Leah

Thank-you Leah.

I'd like to think that I didn't get much flack because everybody loves me :mrgreen:

But seriously I believe it's more so because I was willing to admit to how dumb I was (so there was no need to point it out) That I've learned from my mistakes and will QT from now on (so no lectures on that needed) and that no matter how bad a person screws up no one deserves to go through what I've been going though.

Lance
04-26-2009, 05:05 PM
[QUOTE=fishoholic;414711]Thank-you Leah.

I'd like to think that I didn't get much flack because everybody loves me :mrgreen:


Yes, Laurie we all love you.

my2rotties
04-26-2009, 05:07 PM
Tangs are tough and heal quickly. I think Scarface would be a good name for him, especially sue to the happy nature of Sohal tangs in general:wink: I think you should name all the fish now... since they all have a story to tell.

naesco
04-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Unless there is some evidence of a parasite on the skin of the fish you should stop using copper treatments and remove the residue with charcoal.

The skin is exposed and therefor the fish is very susceptible to opportunistic fungal and bacterial infections.

I would recommend that you use a neomycin based saltwater anti-bacteria medication.
Follow the dosage recommendations carefully.

Wayne

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 07:16 PM
Yes, Laurie we all love you.

See I knew I was on the right track! :lol:

Unless there is some evidence of a parasite on the skin of the fish you should stop using copper treatments and remove the residue with charcoal.

The skin is exposed and therefor the fish is very susceptible to opportunistic fungal and bacterial infections.

I would recommend that you use a neomycin based saltwater anti-bacteria medication.
Follow the dosage recommendations carefully.

Wayne

I don't see any of the velvet on his skin anymore, but a little over a week ago (before treatment) he was very covered in velvet. This disease hides so well, and has been very nasty, would only a week of copper treatment be enough? I would hate to risk pulling him out before the proper treatment time is over and risk everyone getting infected again but I would also hate to have him die from a fungal or bacterial infection.

Any thoughts?

Lance
04-26-2009, 07:46 PM
See I knew I was on the right track! :lol:



I don't see any of the velvet on his skin anymore, but a little over a week ago (before treatment) he was very covered in velvet. This disease hides so well, and has been very nasty, would only a week of copper treatment be enough? I would hate to risk pulling him out before the proper treatment time is over and risk everyone getting infected again but I would also hate to have him die from a fungal or bacterial infection.

Any thoughts?


Laurie, it is advised to run the Cupramine treatment for 14 days. IMO the risk of stopping treatment too early and having the disease come back is too great. Instructions on the bottle say 14 days, so that is what I did.

fishoholic
04-26-2009, 07:48 PM
Laurie, it is advised to run the Cupramine treatment for 14 days. IMO the risk of stopping treatment too early and having the disease come back is too great. Instructions on the bottle say 14 days, so that is what I did.

Ya that's was I was thinking. He will just have to wait for the melifix treatment.

fishoholic
04-27-2009, 05:13 AM
So for some reason I can't find my cleaner wrasse anywhere. He was healthy looking swimming around lots and eating well Friday night. I think I saw him Sat. morning (but I'm not 100% sure) but since Sat. night I can't see him anywhere in the QT tank. I looked all around the QT tank in case he jumped out but I didn't find his body outside of the tank and I don't see his body inside of the tank.

Either he's hiding really really well (not sure how I couldn't see him since there isn't many hiding spots in QT) or he died and the other fish ate him leaving no evidence behind (which is hard to believe that there wouldn't be some pieces of his body left to find since there in a fairly empty QT tank) or he did jump and I just can't see his body anywhere :sad:

Wish I knew where he is :sad:

*edit* I found the cleaner wrasse inside of the heater cover (dead and stuck to the heater) the heater cover was put on the heater to protect the fish from burns, not to create an sleeping inferno for my wrasse to die in :cry:

Parker
04-27-2009, 03:51 PM
You have animals so the body could be anywhere. I had a clown jump once and found the body upstairs. The cat had taken it up there.

my2rotties
04-27-2009, 04:14 PM
If you can't find him my best guess is that he jumped out... I had a couple cleaner wrasses jump out and when they dry out, they are very tiny. Could be stuck under your sock and you would never know it.

bulletsworld
04-27-2009, 07:23 PM
OOOooooooo geeeeeeeeeeshhhhhhh..... I feel bad I moved away, this happens and wasn't there for you girl. *SUPER HUGS* to you and Steve.

This is always the turning point in the hobby and an eye opener for all about QT. You guys were having a good run too. I was worried it was going to catch up to you. I'm so sorry it did. Been there in the past too. It’s a very hurtful experience I would never wish on anyone. *Super hugs* for all the pain you have been going through. I think its GREAT that you posted your experience. Give yourself a pat on that back cause your gonna get through this.

__________________________________________________ __________________________
K... lets get to the treatment...

You did the best thing with treating with Cupermine. It’s the more stable copper treatment (if dosed & tested regularly) in my experiences.

Make sure the treatment tank is dark? No, seriously... make sure it is. Besides light helps the parasite swim to light, find fish (host). The parasite doesn't die until it directly fall off the host into the copper water. Another reason to keep the lights off is this will also calm the fish, ease stress from crowding in a QT tank. Where they’re used to having a big tank.

***You were asking about the open wounds. There are two really good treatments... Melafix can be treated with saltwater and works GREAT! And fast! I am a big fan of more natural treatments and this is one of them. Example... I had a porcupine puffer (scaleless fish - which are very sensitive to any treatment) He was small and got sucked up into the powerhead. His gill and side of head was ripped open. I thought for sure he was a goner. I was so upset. I put him in a QT Tank and treated with Melafix. After two weeks, his blood red wound was healing. Let me look to see if I still have pictures I can show you how bad shape he was in. He made a complete recovery, which was amazing to me. He was a strong bugger and that is the puffer you met and had for a bit before the transfer. When you treat with Melafix in your QT tank it will fill with the aroma of vicks! Melafix will color your tank a bit yellow, but it works great.

Another med to use is SeaChem Kanaplex (kanamycin based) is a good treatment for infections. It also works well and can even be soaked in the food to administer. You can pick up a small tube of that at A.I or Big Al's for like $10 bucks.

Make sure not to treat with any of these until the copper treatment is completely done and tested gone. Make sure there is no more remaining copper in the QT tank before starting other treatments. I think in your case, because of the open wounds, Melafix would be your best option.


Best of luck to all the survivors. You will pull through this disaster. I promise. *superhugs*

fishoholic
04-27-2009, 08:59 PM
Thanks Lee. There is no marine light above the QT tank. The tank is our old sump the 110g 6' long tank and it's tucked in the crawl space by the steps. There is a fluorescent light off to the side and somewhat above it, but I only turn that on to wake them up to eat and then I turn it back off again.

After the cupermine treatment the plan is to set up a 90g with LR from a friends tank or buy LR from a tank tear down and put the fish in there for the remaining QT time. It's at that time that I want to use melafix to treat the sohal with. Thanks for the hugs and advice, I apperciate it.

fishoholic
07-01-2009, 04:53 PM
It's been 10 weeks since the fish started the QT process, so time for an update. The fish have been back in the displays for 2 weeks now and there is no sign of disease.

Here is a link to those who did not make it :cry: http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/RIP/?albumview=slideshow

Just before 8 weeks were up I put the reef fish (checkerboard wrasse, 2 chromis, CBB, & sohal tang) back (they were getting beat up badly by my king angel and lunare wrasse) needless to say their nips/wounds are mostly healed and they are much happier now.

While this was happening (these new fish were spread out over the past month) we bought and QT'd some new fish (2 skunk clowns, mandarin goby, tail spot blenny, blonde naso tang, blue ring angel & imperator angel) as well as we got some fish (yellow watchman goby, regal tang, foxface, 2 clownfish, starki damsel and pistol shrimp) given to us for free from a fellow canreef member G1GY (Gary) which ended up in a fruitful trip to Calgary where we bought a miniatus grouper, pyramid butterfly and a bicolour parrotfish. These fish are finished QT and I split them up into their proper tanks and after I let them settle in for a few days I put the king angel, lunare wrasse and bursa trigger back.

I'm happy to say that for the most part everyone is getting along. My checkerboard does chase my YWG (yellow watchman goby) but for the most part the YWG hides really well and the checkerboard leaves him alone. My King angel passively chases my Imperator and Blue ring around but for the most part he leaves them alone. The odd thing is that my somewhat shy (hides whenever I get to close to the tank) miniatus grouper seems to hate my lunare wrasse. He chases and I guess nips at the lunare since the lunare has some nipped fins, but it doesn't seem like he wants to eat him (the lunare's pretty big so I'm not sure the grouper would try to) it just seems like he can't stand him, but I have no clue as to why. Guess the lunare now knows how the checkerboard felt, however if it gets to bad I'll probably sell the lunare, if I can catch him.

Here's pictures of the reef fish (minus the YWG and the pistol shrimp who are to good at hiding right now to get a pic. of) http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/?albumview=slideshow

Here's pictures of the FOWLR fish http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/new%20tank/?albumview=slideshow

I will get full tank shots later on when the lights come on, and I will update my signature as well.

mark
07-01-2009, 05:12 PM
great to hear you're back up and everything is healthy

fishoholic
07-01-2009, 05:13 PM
I also thought I'd pay special tribute to my sohal tang who went through hell and back again in order to pull through and survive, he is a true trooper.

Before velvet
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/sohal/DSC_1166.jpg

During copper treatment (what the velvet did to him :cry:)
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/sohal/DSC_1312.jpg

The after math, all healed up but scared for life with a bumpy forehead and no top lip :sad: but at least he made it
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii53/Laurie_Morin/sohal/DSC_1338.jpg

fishoholic
07-01-2009, 05:16 PM
great to hear you're back up and everything is healthy

Thanks :biggrin:

Leah
07-01-2009, 05:22 PM
That picture is brutal glad, he is recovering I would not have thought it possible.
So glad things are better, can't wait to see more pictures of the new fish.

Lance
07-01-2009, 05:31 PM
Laurie, I'm so glad everything is back on track. Good Job! Funny thing about how your Grouper hates the Lunare Wrasse. My Tuskfish hates the Lunare in my tank. Could care less about the other fishes, but spends most of his day trying to catch the Lunare.

fishoholic
07-01-2009, 06:19 PM
That picture is brutal glad, he is recovering I would not have thought it possible.
So glad things are better, can't wait to see more pictures of the new fish.

Ya, it really is amazing that he survived all that.

Laurie, I'm so glad everything is back on track. Good Job! Funny thing about how your Grouper hates the Lunare Wrasse. My Tuskfish hates the Lunare in my tank. Could care less about the other fishes, but spends most of his day trying to catch the Lunare.

Must be something about lunare's, weird how big fish hate them.

Skimmerking
07-01-2009, 07:10 PM
that is great laurie great talking with you last night too good to see that you are on your way....

fishoholic
07-01-2009, 09:09 PM
that is great laurie great talking with you last night too good to see that you are on your way....

Thanks, it was nice talking with you too.

fishoholic
07-02-2009, 05:31 AM
Ya know I was just sitting on the couch and I looked over and saw my fowlr tank and as I watched the fish swimming around, it dawned on me how much has happened since the start of all this. I can't even begin to explain how wonderful it is to look over and see fish in my tank. It sat empty for so long, and so much horribleness happened, that it truly is wonderful to know good things happened towards the end, and that I didn't loose all my fish. A simple thing of just being able to look over and see fish swimming around and thriving is a beautiful sight.

Thank-you again to everyone who took this journey with me and supported me with kind words along the way.

Lance
07-02-2009, 10:18 PM
:thumb::thumb: Two thumbs up, Laurie!